I think a lot of Eldar players used Banshees/Warp Spiders/Exarch as a crutch. And now that those got nerfed they are perplexed as to what to do.
Warp spiders still seemed to be able to gib my infantry at a good rate, and I don't think there was any change that made them less able to teleport away the moment things go south.
DOA that was some beautiful Looted Tank usage. I cringed when they all ran from your Big Boom mark or whatever.. but when it hit the warrior squad knocking all of them back... omg.
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
So do Eldar have a better melee unit option then? Or are you saying you think the cost/benefit for Banshees is so poor that you'd rather do without a melee unit at all?
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
It is viable. It is also boring as fuck. Fucking fuck, even. Super fucking boring, one might be inclined to say.
So do Eldar have a better melee unit option then? Or are you saying you think the cost/benefit for Banshees is so poor that you'd rather do without a melee unit at all?
So do Eldar have a better melee unit option then? Or are you saying you think the cost/benefit for Banshees is so poor that you'd rather do without a melee unit at all?
You're better off forgoing melee entirely.
That might be frustrating for Eldar players after a couple of weeks with such a powerful melee option, but it does seem like it's more in keeping with the spirit of the Eldar tabletop force.
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
It is viable. It is also boring as fuck. Fucking fuck, even. Super fucking boring, one might be inclined to say.
Really, it's boring.
I for one don't think all the armies should be copy and paste versions of eachother. Maybe relying on platforms should be the base for the Eldar's play style. Instead of having exact substitutes or answers for opposing armies' squads.
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
It is viable. It is also boring as fuck. Fucking fuck, even. Super fucking boring, one might be inclined to say.
Really, it's boring.
I for one don't think all the armies should be copy and paste versions of eachother. Maybe relying on platforms should be the base for the Eldar's play style. Instead of having exact substitutes or answers for opposing armies' squads.
I don't want to get infracted or anything, but Spindrift was right.
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
It is viable. It is also boring as fuck. Fucking fuck, even. Super fucking boring, one might be inclined to say.
Really, it's boring.
I for one don't think all the armies should be copy and paste versions of eachother. Maybe relying on platforms should be the base for the Eldar's play style. Instead of having exact substitutes or answers for opposing armies' squads.
Purely static defenses isn't Eldar at all. Really, just stop, please?
And K, it's frustrating having worthless units. Warp spiders are really bad, too, as are brightlances and not-Falcon t2 units.
While most players gripe about shurikens covering shurikens and d-cannons and shurikens covering d-cannons is lame. I think it's a perfectly viable and legitimate strategy, and more eldar players should incorporate it into their play style with the new req and balance. Relying less on demi-god squads of banshees or warp spiders to mess up infantry/tanks.
It is viable. It is also boring as fuck. Fucking fuck, even. Super fucking boring, one might be inclined to say.
Really, it's boring.
I agree with this. The reason I almost always picked airborne or infantry as Americans in CoH has little to do with building emplacments and strafing runs...
They aren't totally static such as a turret. You're able to shift your front very easily with platforms.
Really, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop right now and there's no harm done. Just stop. You don't play Eldar, you're not expected to know. It's okay. But stop.
They aren't totally static such as a turret. You're able to shift your front very easily with platforms.
Really, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop right now and there's no harm done. Just stop. You don't play Eldar, you're not expected to know. It's okay. But stop.
I just don't see how this is supposed to convince me that you and Pancake have valid complaints. "You don't know it, but you're wrong, so you should stop talking" just isn't a very cogent argument.
Isn't the Eldar TT force an extremely shooty army that fares poorly in melee?
They aren't totally static such as a turret. You're able to shift your front very easily with platforms.
Really, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop right now and there's no harm done. Just stop. You don't play Eldar, you're not expected to know. It's okay. But stop.
Your entire argument is backed up by refusing to explain your position and saying "I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about. Anyone who likes Eldar is lying or mistaken"
Eldar are aggressive firebasing... I don't see why that's so horrible.
They aren't totally static such as a turret. You're able to shift your front very easily with platforms.
Really, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop right now and there's no harm done. Just stop. You don't play Eldar, you're not expected to know. It's okay. But stop.
I just don't see how this is supposed to convince me that you and Pancake have valid complaints. "You don't know it, but you're wrong, so you should stop talking" just isn't a very cogent argument.
Isn't the Eldar TT force an extremely shooty army that fares poorly in melee?
Eldar is a highly mobile, highly glass cannon race. Platforms are not anywhere near "mobile", let alone highly. They are support units, not the main force. I didn't want to have to explain this because it's annoying, but you went ahead and made me. >:(
Eldar is a highly mobile, highly glass cannon race. Platforms are not anywhere near "mobile", let alone highly. They are support units, not the main force. I didn't want to have to explain this because it's annoying, but you went ahead and made me. >:(
But they're amazingly more mobile than any other races turrets
Please keep in mind this IS a Beta test, not a product demo, and shit like this will happen.
These first round of changes weren't knee-jerk or total dart-throwing, they were based on data and player feedback over the last few weeks.
Did the pendulum swing too far the other way?
Oh yeah.
Be we knew it was going to. And so did a lot of you, the vast majority of our intended balance changes were posted last week.
That said, we're going to keep this patch live for awhile to data mine it and get forum feedback.
All I can ask at this point is to hang in there, keep playing, find new ways to have fun/win/break things, hell, even keep bitching, it's all good feedback for the next round of balancing.
Please keep in mind this IS a Beta test, not a product demo, and shit like this will happen.
These first round of changes weren't knee-jerk or total dart-throwing, they were based on data and player feedback over the last few weeks.
Did the pendulum swing too far the other way?
Oh yeah.
Be we knew it was going to. And so did a lot of you, the vast majority of our intended balance changes were posted last week.
That said, we're going to keep this patch live for awhile to data mine it and get forum feedback.
All I can ask at this point is to hang in there, keep playing, find new ways to have fun/win/break things, hell, even keep bitching, it's all good feedback for the next round of balancing.
So do you guys think Eldar is weak or do I just play them totally wrong like Kinder says?
Also you're the best and by the best I mean you're the best.
The thing with platforms is they get super fucked up by anything that can infiltrate, leap, jump, teleport, throw a grenade or has a long range blast/aoe.
Now, with all Eldar aside from the seer coucil or avatar being utterly terrible in melee, you have no method of protecting your platforms from any of those units. If ASM jump your shuriken platform for example, you have to fall back. If a kommando infiltrates up behind them, you have to fall back, etc. At least when banshees are good you could use them to protect your platforms. They have 400hp, you either fall back to base immediately or they will die. It's a terrible idea for an army's core given how bad the other units are.
And yes, Eldar TT are a super specialised army. The core of Eldar are the aspect warriors, not platforms. Platforms are just heavy weapons added to guardian squads really, no different from giving one of your tac marines a heavy bolter or whatever. Aspect warriors are what they should be based around. Banshees are very powerful melee attackers, but they can't do anything else, they don't have any staying power. As far as I remember, Banshees all use power swords, and power weapons are extremely powerful. Scorpians are the other melee specialists and the complete opposite really, they don't have super strong attacks but they have space marine tough armour. Again, they are awful at anything besides melee. Warp Spiders and Dire Avengers are the ranged damage specialists. Spiders the highly mobile ones, Avengers the tough ones. Fire Dragons for AV, Rangers for scouting etc.
It's a shame Eldar in DoWII weren't built entirely around the aspect warriors, because it's what they're all about. And as has been said, Eldar are very agile. Constantly deploying/re-deploying platforms isn't right at all.
Rami on
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Eldar is a highly mobile, highly glass cannon race. Platforms are not anywhere near "mobile", let alone highly. They are support units, not the main force. I didn't want to have to explain this because it's annoying, but you went ahead and made me. >:(
I would apologize for needing to hear you use words and phrases to understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think that's really warranted.
But I still don't see how DoW2's representation of the Eldar faction is unfaithful. For their cost, Guardian squads do hells of damage from range, but get beat up quickly in melee. Shurikens are the same. Warp Spiders will chew up most infantry from afar and can blink away if they're engaged in melee. Etc, etc. Nearly every unit can use Fleet of Foot.
Highly mobile, check. Glass cannons, check. I won't disagree that things need some more balancing to really be spot-on, but if the goal is to make the faction playable and competitive while remaining faithful to the spirit of the tabletop army, it seems like they're heading in the right direction. Are they there yet? No--but then, they're not really there yet with any of the factions. The game isn't even out.
Please keep in mind this IS a Beta test, not a product demo, and shit like this will happen.
These first round of changes weren't knee-jerk or total dart-throwing, they were based on data and player feedback over the last few weeks.
Did the pendulum swing too far the other way?
Oh yeah.
Be we knew it was going to. And so did a lot of you, the vast majority of our intended balance changes were posted last week.
That said, we're going to keep this patch live for awhile to data mine it and get forum feedback.
All I can ask at this point is to hang in there, keep playing, find new ways to have fun/win/break things, hell, even keep bitching, it's all good feedback for the next round of balancing.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
Posts
Aww, did I make you angry?
He did say a lot of them. He didn't say the super-best Eldar pro players (such as Goomba).
It was pretty depressing when your Seer Council destroyed my termies utterly.
Whether anyone here massed one unit or not or relied on them as a crutch (none of us did), it's one less viable unit in our army of choice.
I don't know why we shouldn't complain about it.
And I used guardians, maybe a ranger, maybe a banshee (not often), maybe a warp spider (not often), and a wraithlord.
If there is consistently a better option for the resources required in almost every situation, then I would say yes, they would be worthless.
Really, it's boring.
You're better off forgoing melee entirely.
That might be frustrating for Eldar players after a couple of weeks with such a powerful melee option, but it does seem like it's more in keeping with the spirit of the Eldar tabletop force.
I don't want to get infracted or anything, but Spindrift was right.
Holy shit, that's a terrible idea.
And K, it's frustrating having worthless units. Warp spiders are really bad, too, as are brightlances and not-Falcon t2 units.
I agree with this. The reason I almost always picked airborne or infantry as Americans in CoH has little to do with building emplacments and strafing runs...
If so I'd be all over them.
They'd be somewhat like a moveable british encampments from CoH
My God
I tried playing tekmarine starting off due to his turrets. But they didn't do it for me.
I just don't see how this is supposed to convince me that you and Pancake have valid complaints. "You don't know it, but you're wrong, so you should stop talking" just isn't a very cogent argument.
Isn't the Eldar TT force an extremely shooty army that fares poorly in melee?
Your entire argument is backed up by refusing to explain your position and saying "I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about. Anyone who likes Eldar is lying or mistaken"
Eldar are aggressive firebasing... I don't see why that's so horrible.
The whole point of eldar is their super mobility.
They are more super specialized then shooty.
Eldar is a highly mobile, highly glass cannon race. Platforms are not anywhere near "mobile", let alone highly. They are support units, not the main force. I didn't want to have to explain this because it's annoying, but you went ahead and made me. >:(
Well no other race has mobile turrets, so I'd hardly say platforms makes that no longer true
But they're amazingly more mobile than any other races turrets
Devestators and Lootas are essecially the same thing...
Mostly because other races do have what amounts to mobile turrets and platforms aren't mobile. You're double wrong.
I just punched myself in the head.
Platforms are the same thing as the SM devestator squads, they just look different.
Please keep in mind this IS a Beta test, not a product demo, and shit like this will happen.
These first round of changes weren't knee-jerk or total dart-throwing, they were based on data and player feedback over the last few weeks.
Did the pendulum swing too far the other way?
Oh yeah.
Be we knew it was going to. And so did a lot of you, the vast majority of our intended balance changes were posted last week.
That said, we're going to keep this patch live for awhile to data mine it and get forum feedback.
All I can ask at this point is to hang in there, keep playing, find new ways to have fun/win/break things, hell, even keep bitching, it's all good feedback for the next round of balancing.
Also you're the best and by the best I mean you're the best.
Now, with all Eldar aside from the seer coucil or avatar being utterly terrible in melee, you have no method of protecting your platforms from any of those units. If ASM jump your shuriken platform for example, you have to fall back. If a kommando infiltrates up behind them, you have to fall back, etc. At least when banshees are good you could use them to protect your platforms. They have 400hp, you either fall back to base immediately or they will die. It's a terrible idea for an army's core given how bad the other units are.
And yes, Eldar TT are a super specialised army. The core of Eldar are the aspect warriors, not platforms. Platforms are just heavy weapons added to guardian squads really, no different from giving one of your tac marines a heavy bolter or whatever. Aspect warriors are what they should be based around. Banshees are very powerful melee attackers, but they can't do anything else, they don't have any staying power. As far as I remember, Banshees all use power swords, and power weapons are extremely powerful. Scorpians are the other melee specialists and the complete opposite really, they don't have super strong attacks but they have space marine tough armour. Again, they are awful at anything besides melee. Warp Spiders and Dire Avengers are the ranged damage specialists. Spiders the highly mobile ones, Avengers the tough ones. Fire Dragons for AV, Rangers for scouting etc.
It's a shame Eldar in DoWII weren't built entirely around the aspect warriors, because it's what they're all about. And as has been said, Eldar are very agile. Constantly deploying/re-deploying platforms isn't right at all.
I would apologize for needing to hear you use words and phrases to understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think that's really warranted.
But I still don't see how DoW2's representation of the Eldar faction is unfaithful. For their cost, Guardian squads do hells of damage from range, but get beat up quickly in melee. Shurikens are the same. Warp Spiders will chew up most infantry from afar and can blink away if they're engaged in melee. Etc, etc. Nearly every unit can use Fleet of Foot.
Highly mobile, check. Glass cannons, check. I won't disagree that things need some more balancing to really be spot-on, but if the goal is to make the faction playable and competitive while remaining faithful to the spirit of the tabletop army, it seems like they're heading in the right direction. Are they there yet? No--but then, they're not really there yet with any of the factions. The game isn't even out.
Word. Can I recommend more Dakka?
That applies to all races.
As of right now, the cannon is basically gone. Guardians aren't much worse than they used to be, but most everything else is just glass.
It was probably in the patch notes but I missed it or soemthing.