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[Aion] Is Now Completely Free To Play. 3.0 Is Now Live.

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    goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Psychoish wrote: »
    Well, all of you Witchaloks better go find a new guild because I'm a girl and I'm the leader. Oh noes!

    Grats on flexing your strapon E-peen, you're ranked 0 on the server and you have 94k CP

    Edit: this has nothing to do with girls vs. boys nonsense. I'd say the same thing if you were a man/boy/curiously androgynous emo thing kids are doing now-a-days

    goodtimes on
    new sig underconstruction
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    goodtimes wrote: »
    Psychoish wrote: »
    Well, all of you Witchaloks better go find a new guild because I'm a girl and I'm the leader. Oh noes!

    Grats on flexing your strapon E-peen, you're ranked 0 on the server and you have 94k CP

    Edit: this has nothing to do with girls vs. boys nonsense. I'd say the same thing if you were a man/boy/curiously androgynous emo thing kids are doing now-a-days

    ... what?

    Aistan on
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    goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Aistan wrote: »
    goodtimes wrote: »
    Psychoish wrote: »
    Well, all of you Witchaloks better go find a new guild because I'm a girl and I'm the leader. Oh noes!

    Grats on flexing your strapon E-peen, you're ranked 0 on the server and you have 94k CP

    Edit: this has nothing to do with girls vs. boys nonsense. I'd say the same thing if you were a man/boy/curiously androgynous emo thing kids are doing now-a-days

    ... what?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7jhb8_UPfw

    goodtimes on
    new sig underconstruction
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I think that's what is being asked of you, yes.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Man, now I'm just upset that the above youtube video left out the last part.

    :(

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    brainsmith wrote: »
    I feel like I made my point, joke or not. I could go further into how women are not taken seriously as gamers, but like I said this is not the proper place to debate this. The point has been made, we don't wish to drag this out further.

    I

    take

    gaming

    seriously

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Off-and-on, I've really been feeling a lack of usefulness as a Gladiator. I'm pretty good at AoE and off-tanking, but when it comes to situations in PvP where AoE is truly called for it, it's also usually suicide.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I'm feeling like I'm either missing something or Gladiators don't really contribute anything to group PvP that any other class couldn't do better.

    Silas Brown on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Off-and-on, I've really been feeling a lack of usefulness as a Gladiator. I'm pretty good at AoE and off-tanking, but when it comes to situations in PvP where AoE is truly called for it, it's also usually suicide.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I'm feeling like I'm either missing something or Gladiators don't really contribute anything to group PvP that any other class couldn't do better.

    I've heard from multiple people that Gladiators are in need of a PvP buff. We'll see a balance patch soon enough, once the devs get an idea of what actually needs work.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    In large scale standoff warfare, all melee classes are less useful than ranged and healers. Thats how it always is in big fights like that.


    In a group situation a Gladiator combines CC and Damage along with AE damage pretty well though.

    CorriganX on
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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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    ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Don't bother to respond though, I'm not really keen on wasting my time with and idiot/liar.

    Clearly you're the idiot here. If you don't have a shield you can't block, and thus it doesn't matter what your block value actually is because you won't be able to block anyways which is the same as having a block value of 0.

    Maybe you didn't get it since you don't know what essentially means here:

    Also, just because the chanter can heal doesn't mean it's a "healer class". It's actually a hybrid class, one of the aspects of which is healing capability. As was stated earlier in teh thread the chanter is not a main healer, and therefore not necessarily a huge deal if they die in the pull process. What class would you suggest range pulling? a ranger? awesome leather wearer that will probably die in 2 shots. sorc or sm? will do too much damage with the pull making it difficult for the tank to pull off of them, also a cloth wearer that will probably die in 1 shot. assassin? glad? cleric? lol?


    And honestly I don't care what your next attempt is at being right, since that's all you're trying to do here. You're so set on being right that even if you're not (which you aren't) that you will still argue, but keep trying. It amuses me.


    edit: Also I'm not sure if you've heard of something called diminishing returns so putting everything in 1 stat is a bad idea. If not you are pretty keen on looking things up so have at it.

    ghost_master2000 on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    CorriganX wrote: »
    In large scale standoff warfare, all melee classes are less useful than ranged and healers. Thats how it always is in big fights like that.


    In a group situation a Gladiator combines CC and Damage along with AE damage pretty well though.

    This is unnervingly like WAR. Non-tank or nuker? Good luck doing anything without being roasted to a crisp by stacked AoE!

    BlueDestiny on
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Its like every game that has large zerg vs zerg conflicts. You rush up to get in melee, you're going to get nuked down first. Want to be safe? Stay far in the back. Small group vs group fights can be amazing fun though, we've ran into a few of those earlier and I know Moriarty was saying how much fun he was having in that.

    We basically ran into a 25 elyos vs 40 Asmos fight in the middle of the teleport island, we each had "main forces" and anyone that tried to run through the middle got burned down quick. Sucked for melee, but we pushed back and forth enough to make it fun sometimes.

    CorriganX on
    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, I've had some time to cool down, and there was a shitton of fun with Gladiator in PvP. One could argue that I could just bow out in the large scale battles, but I think that would mean no Fortress defense/offense for me.

    Anyway, it seems at least that my concern that "i'm doing it wrong" is not an issue. This is merely the weakness of melee. I think I can cope.

    Silas Brown on
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    With Fortress offense and defense its a bit different. You can force them to come inside where you are up close and personal. It sucks for melee while doing wall fighting, but its great when they get inside and you can knock heads.

    CorriganX on
    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I see. That really puts me at ease about the whole thing. It's naive to think any one class is going to be great at everything, but knowing that there is a time and place for Gladiator-level intimacy makes me happy.

    Silas Brown on
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    FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Soooraah wrote: »
    Soooraah wrote: »
    I find it funny how much "chick hate" there is along with the anti gay remarks on this board. Does this just mean you can't get it from either?

    Everyone's thinking it, I just had the cahones to say it...

    ...

    There are plenty of gays and chicks on this forum.

    Could it be that you are seeing long running meme's and jokes that are entirely void of any real meaning?

    *EDIT* I went back through the thread and looked, what the hell are you even talking about? Are you in the right thread?

    Let me put this simply so some panties can be unbunched.

    All I am saying is that it gets a little tiring being the butt of enless strings of jokes and I wasn't mentioning any post specifically, just a culmination of several posts along with ingame behavior. This isn't worth 20 flame posts, I said it, people commented, get over it, move on.

    i'd just like to say...

    lol

    Fallout on
    xcomsig.png
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    FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    CostanzaK wrote: »
    Fallout wrote: »
    man, dudes have to apply to be in your video game groups? that is Gay As Hell

    While it is not a true necessity this early in the game where most people joining are coming straight from the PA Forums, it is for the long term. We already have two members that are Egyptian and speak english as a second language. If it were not for the application we all would have assumed they were 12 year old who refuse to use the Shift key and the period button. The Application is a way for us to get a quick feel for who is applying and know where they are coming from.

    It is also a way to keep out players who are complete douchbags who give it away during the "interview" phase. Like those guys from Akatsuki and Witchalok. If you have those guys asking for entrance then you know right away that they'll be dead weight and assholes.

    But so far no one has been turned away, and since they are all registered on the Legion forums I can get in contact with them all for things like Siege events using their registered e-mail addresses. I can also know who is playing what characters and be certain that no one has an Alt taking a slot in the Legion when we're running out of room for people.

    Oh, okay, that's reasonable then. I wanna check out the Elyos side of things eventually, I'll probably roll myself a whitewing over with you all sometime.
    Djiem wrote: »
    It's also useful to weed out people who still use "that's so gay" as a prejorative.

    well shit man, if you're gonna be gay about it...

    Fallout on
    xcomsig.png
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    darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Alright, I'm awarding everyone in here abyss points for PKing your fellow forumites. Also, I was there when that shit dropped for Flecko. I saw it all go down (in global chat). Now send some of that luck my way. I don't even have enough kinah to teleport out of Sanctum right now.

    darklite_x on
    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
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    AeonfellAeonfell Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    My main problem with gladiator is just actually getting combos off in PVP. I mean, our MAIN combo requires you be standing still for the final hit, and our entire AE combo requires the same. "Please stand here in my giant whirling maim-pole, fair Elyos, please?"

    Having said that, when I'm with buddies who can CC a little, I will curb check dudes pretty fast, and with a sword, and am apparently pretty sturdy.

    I just need, like, Hamstring or something. Not a 2 minute cooldown snare and a 4 minute sprint. That is bad for anything but dueling someone, waiting 4 minutes, trying again. Other than that, in love with the class utterly.


    Quick PVP story. I rifted with 2 buddies last night at like 3 AM, and aside from spawning immediately surrounded by an ocean of level 40 elites (we are 29ish), it was fantastic. We ran the whole road cutting down bots and honest folk alike, which ended with us saying "ok let's stop and fight the 5 guys chasing us now" Which of course ended up being 5 kazillion. So fun.

    Aeonfell on
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    FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    darklite_x wrote: »
    Alright, I'm awarding everyone in here abyss points for PKing your fellow forumites. Also, I was there when that shit dropped for Flecko. I saw it all go down (in global chat). Now send some of that luck my way. I don't even have enough kinah to teleport out of Sanctum right now.

    Use return? :)

    Fallout on
    xcomsig.png
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    AddaAdda LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    darklite_x wrote: »
    Alright, I'm awarding everyone in here abyss points for PKing your fellow forumites. Also, I was there when that shit dropped for Flecko. I saw it all go down (in global chat). Now send some of that luck my way. I don't even have enough kinah to teleport out of Sanctum right now.

    Just run the delivery quests from the teleporter over and over and over and over and over and over

    Adda on
    steam_sig.png
    I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
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    MeepZeroMeepZero Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Know what sucks, Level 23-25 (assuming 25 is when life sucks less).

    Ran out of quests, so now Im limited to grind grind grind...

    Not a fan...not a fan at all.

    MeepZero on
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    sig.jpg
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    JediNightJediNight Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I've been known to use "that's so gay" before, but only as a general perjorative. Never meant it in the GLBT sense.

    What I find more sad is that people can't accept that words gain new meanings over time, despite the fact that gay only meant "happy" 40 years ago. Yet using the same word as a general perjorative is somehow automatically discriminatory.

    JediNight on
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    FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MeepZero wrote: »
    Know what sucks, Level 23-25 (assuming 25 is when life sucks less).

    Ran out of quests, so now Im limited to grind grind grind...

    Not a fan...not a fan at all.

    If you're Asmo, try heading to Brusthonin, buncha quests there your level if you've cleared out Morheim (which is impossible so I'm thinking you're not Asmodian >_>)

    Are you an assassin? Because mine was, and those were bar none the worst fucking levels ever. At 25 you get super awesome, though.

    Fallout on
    xcomsig.png
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    WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hey ya guys, mind helping a sad sad panda find his way? The Aion forums are an f*in MESS, so I couldn't get this question answered there...


    WHAT is the most populated East server? I can't find or get a strait answer out of anyone, and the server stats *on the official page* only tells the number of legions, which oddly, doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the number of players.

    If you can answer this for me, I'll, I dunno... be happy?

    Wishpig on
    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    622545-8-1261525714230.jpg

    Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    brainsmith wrote: »
    Let me preface this by saying that Soooraah is my wife. I'm not coming here to be the "white knight" and "save her." She doesn't need me to do that, she can handle herself.

    She has a valid point, women who play video games are not taken seriously. This is probably not the right place to debate this, but there are plenty of examples of this right here. Look at this from the old thread when describing the cleric class:
    Classes


    Do you really have to ask, really? Healbitch, rolled by girlfriends who are dragged into MMO's everywhere.

    Need I say more?


    Since I'm the person who made the post in question, I thought I might as well "defend" myself.

    REALLY?

    I just....I.....god. This hurts my brain.

    Like....how? HOW? What the hell do you mean by taken seriously? Who the hell do you guys roll with?

    Other then the "Holy shit GIRL" initial reactions, which is completley in jest, normal people don't really care if you're a girl, guy, gay, bi, horse, whatever. If you run with people who are actually so infatuated with their own penis that they feel the need to point out that their playing with women every 10 seconds, then you probably need to find new people to play with.

    Also, using the goddamn internet to gauge how seriously women are taken in videogaming/mmo'ing/whatever is a horrible, HORRIBLE judgement call. It's the internet. It's the one of the most horrible places in the goddamn world, filled with retarded opinions.

    Also, saying, "This probably isn't the place to debate this, but I'm going to throw out an out of context statement anyway and not be called out on it, since this isn't the place to debate this" is pretty much the silliest thing.

    Anyways, this is silly, I don't even know why I even bothered with all that. I think the whole point is, try and use your own personal experiance and actual interactions with people, then reading forums and twitters and whatever getting slowly enraged by people saying stupid crap. Because you and your wife will go mad.

    Transporter on
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    KainyKainy Pimpin' and righteous Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Dear everyone:

    This is the Penny Arcade forum, have some thick skin and sense of sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek humor, for fucksake.

    Thanks,
    everyone else

    Kainy on
    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
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    StratoStrato Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Hey ya guys, mind helping a sad sad panda find his way? The Aion forums are an f*in MESS, so I couldn't get this question answered there...


    WHAT is the most populated East server? I can't find or get a strait answer out of anyone, and the server stats *on the official page* only tells the number of legions, which oddly, doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the number of players.

    If you can answer this for me, I'll, I dunno... be happy?

    I'm pretty sure Zikel is packed, because we tried to roll on that originally and it had huge queues.

    Strato on
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Strato wrote: »
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Hey ya guys, mind helping a sad sad panda find his way? The Aion forums are an f*in MESS, so I couldn't get this question answered there...


    WHAT is the most populated East server? I can't find or get a strait answer out of anyone, and the server stats *on the official page* only tells the number of legions, which oddly, doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the number of players.

    If you can answer this for me, I'll, I dunno... be happy?

    I'm pretty sure Zikel is packed, because we tried to roll on that originally and it had huge queues.

    There are several, actually.

    Triniel is also pretty packed to the brim. It's were I am playing now, and I have to say the amount of PvP is frightening.

    Transporter on
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    eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Aeonfell wrote: »
    My main problem with gladiator is just actually getting combos off in PVP. I mean, our MAIN combo requires you be standing still for the final hit, and our entire AE combo requires the same. "Please stand here in my giant whirling maim-pole, fair Elyos, please?"


    Hi, I'm Eatmosushi.

    You might remember me from such pvp tutorials as,

    Bubble Hearth, Stupid

    and

    It's a Mortal Strike Christmas, Charlie Brown!

    Anyways, having to stand still for your combos to go off... now, I'm from the Ranger school, and we have a little technique called Jump Shotting.

    If you've ever played Guilty Gear, it's a bit like doing a Cancel.

    Basically, jump into the air, and within a moment of touching down, activate your attack skill. In the Ranger school, this causes our attack to launch without the need for any of those animation frames that you're complaining about.

    Now, I haven't got much use for those over-grown can-openers you guys lug around, but I'd reccomend giving this, "jump-attack-land" method a try, you may notice that you're significantly reducing animation frames while remaining highly mobile.

    Now. Is it possible this won't work? Yeah.
    Will it be highly lucrative if it does work and you master it? You bet.
    Will you ever beat Pikachu, the asmodian ranger? Hell no.

    <enter star followed by rainbow>
    The More You Know!

    eatmosushi on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground
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    WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Strato wrote: »
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Hey ya guys, mind helping a sad sad panda find his way? The Aion forums are an f*in MESS, so I couldn't get this question answered there...


    WHAT is the most populated East server? I can't find or get a strait answer out of anyone, and the server stats *on the official page* only tells the number of legions, which oddly, doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the number of players.

    If you can answer this for me, I'll, I dunno... be happy?

    I'm pretty sure Zikel is packed, because we tried to roll on that originally and it had huge queues.

    There are several, actually.

    Triniel is also pretty packed to the brim. It's were I am playing now, and I have to say the amount of PvP is frightening.

    Cool, I'll go with Triniel or Zikel then! Thanks for the help.

    Wishpig on
    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    622545-8-1261525714230.jpg

    Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
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    NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Macro question:

    As a Chanter, I'd like to have a combat Manta set - Victory, Shield, Magic, and a Travel/downtime set - Celerity, Revival, MP. I've made Macros to activate these, and it works, but they work as a toggle. If I happen to have one mantra going from the set, let's say Shield, and I hit the aformentioned combat set, it shuts off.

    Is there a command to help out on this? Is there a /stopcast command, as that could work as well.

    Neurotika on
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    LockoutLockout I am still searching Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Strato wrote: »
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Hey ya guys, mind helping a sad sad panda find his way? The Aion forums are an f*in MESS, so I couldn't get this question answered there...


    WHAT is the most populated East server? I can't find or get a strait answer out of anyone, and the server stats *on the official page* only tells the number of legions, which oddly, doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the number of players.

    If you can answer this for me, I'll, I dunno... be happy?

    I'm pretty sure Zikel is packed, because we tried to roll on that originally and it had huge queues.

    There are several, actually.

    Triniel is also pretty packed to the brim. It's were I am playing now, and I have to say the amount of PvP is frightening.

    Cool, I'll go with Triniel or Zikel then! Thanks for the help.

    at launch it used to be

    Zikel
    Azphel
    Triniel

    in order of population. Dunno about these days

    Lockout on
    f24GSaF.jpg
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    brainsmithbrainsmith Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Since I'm the person who made the post in question, I thought I might as well "defend" myself.

    This really wasn't the post that started this whole thing. I pulled that out of the OP to show an example of what I was talking about. The post that started it all was a joke about the application process being in place to keep women/gays/minorities out of the guild.
    Also, saying, "This probably isn't the place to debate this, but I'm going to throw out an out of context statement anyway and not be called out on it, since this isn't the place to debate this" is pretty much the silliest thing.

    Looking back on this, I wish I would've just shut my pie hole.

    brainsmith on
    Get your own tauntaun!
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    FingerSlutFingerSlut __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Kainy wrote: »
    Dear everyone:

    This is the Penny Arcade forum, have some thick skin and sense of sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek humor, for fucksake.

    Thanks,
    everyone else

    Wheres the fun in that?

    FingerSlut on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    In Marchutan, Elyos are called Elmos, and the meme is catching.

    Awesome? Y/N

    aunsoph on
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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, I've had some time to cool down, and there was a shitton of fun with Gladiator in PvP. One could argue that I could just bow out in the large scale battles, but I think that would mean no Fortress defense/offense for me.

    Anyway, it seems at least that my concern that "i'm doing it wrong" is not an issue. This is merely the weakness of melee. I think I can cope.

    I've played melee type classes since 2001 in DAoC and this is just something you've got to get used to. during the initial stages of a Siege, us melee types are basically relegated to standing around and looking mean. If you've planned ahead and the game supports it, you can run a siege engine (BTW, if you're a ranged class, why the F*** are you running siege? Stop that and do something useful!)

    Once the doors come down, however, everyone HAS to go through one little choke point. You know where the enemy will be and they don't have any choice about it. Without the lag-tastic collision detection of WAR, it's going to a be a Charlie Foxtrot of people running through each other in a mad effort to get to a location where they can "set up" - someplace safe from stacked AE and ranged burndown. The back-and-forth pushing is where melee comes into their own, and at that point the ranged people become unimportant; any squishy on either side that pokes their head out is pretty much instantly vaporized.

    The problem (from the melee point of view) is that those ranged people are too used to being "the shit" all the time that they don't let melee take charge at the right time and one side will just overrun the other when it comes to the armor's turn. When that happens, the "busting heads" phase of the fight gets a bit abbreviated.

    Stupid on

    26904.png
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    TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Had a taste of Templar, Getting a taste of Assassin right now, I think I'll try Sorcerer next maybe. Or cleric.
    Then I'll decide on my perma-class. Still sticking to templar, but Assassin is pretty cool. I like dash+backstab. Or heck, killer eye or whatever and a crit backstab did like 700 damage. At fucking level 12.

    TTODewback on
    Bless your heart.
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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thanks for the insight, Stupid. I don't mind that I'm not going to be useful for 100% of the encounter as long as I have some important part to play in it.

    I'll keep on keepin' on.

    Silas Brown on
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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MeepZero wrote: »
    Know what sucks, Level 23-25 (assuming 25 is when life sucks less).

    Ran out of quests, so now Im limited to grind grind grind...

    Not a fan...not a fan at all.

    Singin' to the choir. I'm out as well, other than a few group quests and some gathering quests for things I can't actually gather since my skill's too low.

    What I wouldn't give for a Training Camp-style instance for 20-25.

    PMAvers on
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