It pretty much depends on your raid being good at efficiently killing the adds. You stack as many healers as you can without making it impossible for your dps to keep up with waves of stuff. I'm sure that once you overgear the encounter you can start going with 4-5 healers even.
That'll be so bizarre.
Every other fight pushes you to bring less healers, and this one pushes for more.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
We have 2 holy paladins. One spams FOL, one spams Holy. Neither use Holy Shock, both are speced holy/ret, and neither use Shield.
Jaraxxus was the weekly on my server this week. I see a group needing heals, so i join up. I'm the 4th pally in there. I see one has 33k mana, so I assume he's the other healer. There's a shammy too with a decent mana pool, so i assume he's the other. The shammy dc's as we pull Gormok, so I figure I'm 2 healing it. I go to town, it's not too bad, but it's a little rough. The other pally kills himself in fire. So now I figure I'm 1 healing it, and i do my best, but I just can't keep folks up through the worms. When I apologized for not being to solo heal it, the third holy pally takes offense.
I might as well have been. I got my wife in to replace the shaman, and watched the heals closely. I was the only pally using sacred shield. Of the 4 (counting the tank). My wife was also the only one of the 4 dks interrupting fireballs on Jaraxxus and moving when she had legion flames (which equals wipe when the mage also isn't spellstealing.)
It's really a super easy fight, I think even easier than Festergut and Rotface if I had to put it on a scale. If you have two good healers that aren't losing their stacks between portals, they eventually are healing for literally incredible amounts. I think in 25 man you have to heal like 8 million which seems like a lot, but when you're throwing out heals for 100k it goes real fast.
Heh, yeah, that's like, 3 minutes of holy light spam assuming just 1 pally doing that.
OMG, the size of those splash heals. Especially with 2pc T10 bonus. Does it only buff healing you do on her? like if you dropped them on a blood DK with vampiric blood up would it beacon over to her for that huge amount? Our other holy pally was hitting our DK tank for 50k with his trinkets and CDs popped.
To be honest I don't know that for sure, but the buff you get isn't only restricted to healing you do to her. My guess is that the beacon thing would probably work since ancestral awakening worked like that when guardian spirit was up on the boss (so the ancestral awakening "bounce" was healing based off the amount healed on her after the guardian spirit increase).
Now that I do think about it, you really wouldn't want to stack a TON of healers on it since the clouds that are in the portal realm are somewhat limited, and if you have too many people going down the odds of them being able to keep their stacks rolling would drop with everyone poaching clouds. I think we were using 3 healers only going into portals to guarantee we all kept our stacks up. A couple healers never dropping their stack do a lot more damage than five healers that can't keep them up.
Now that I do think about it, you really wouldn't want to stack a TON of healers on it since the clouds that are in the portal realm are somewhat limited, and if you have too many people going down the odds of them being able to keep their stacks rolling would drop with everyone poaching clouds. I think we were using 3 healers only going into portals to guarantee we all kept our stacks up. A couple healers never dropping their stack do a lot more damage than five healers that can't keep them up.
Can't you just have them all clump up and move together? The debuff from the orbs is an aoe pulse when it goes off.
Here's the things I think we'll try next time we do the encounter:
-People in the portals stack to all recieve buffs
-Tank the mobs on top of the supressers
-Instead of rotating people into the portals like we did, have 1 or 2 people always go in so they get a huge amount of stacks...the question is would it be better to have 1 healer and 1 dps get superpowered so the dps can AoE like mad or 2 healers so then they can burn down the boss quicker (and handle the raid healing with hots that tick for 10k and whatnot)?
The cool thing about going her way is that we got a Frost from the miniboss right before her, so even though we didn't get anywhere with her we got an extra Frost.
You could, but have you ever seen a Malygos attempt where everybody actually stacks up on one place for healing? It's kind of a pain staying with each other in that whole 3-d swimming thing, plus accounting for lag of them looking like they are next to you but actually being ahead of you. You also don't have a very long time to get that first cloud to keep your stack up when you enter, and you don't all come in the same place (portals are kind of random). It's even worse if you get hit with a frostbolt volley right before the portal and are swimming at 50% speed or whatever it is.
Here's the things I think we'll try next time we do the encounter:
-People in the portals stack to all recieve buffs
-Tank the mobs on top of the supressers
-Instead of rotating people into the portals like we did, have 1 or 2 people always go in so they get a huge amount of stacks...the question is would it be better to have 1 healer and 1 dps get superpowered so the dps can AoE like mad or 2 healers so then they can burn down the boss quicker (and handle the raid healing with hots that tick for 10k and whatnot)?
It's definitely best to send the same healers in every portal, rotating would gimp overall healing a lot by preventing the stacks from getting high. Keeping one person out of the portal fulltime should be enough raid healing for the fight if the dps is playing well.
I can't wait to get to that fight now. I mean, I couldn't before anyway. It's the Healer Fight! but now I wanna see how many stacks I can get and do ridiculous healing. bunch of stacks + trinket/ring/libram procs + 85% extra healing from CDs and vampiric blood. I wanna see a 200k flash of light with a 200k beacon bounce and 20k splashes.
To be honest I don't know that for sure, but the buff you get isn't only restricted to healing you do to her. My guess is that the beacon thing would probably work since ancestral awakening worked like that when guardian spirit was up on the boss (so the ancestral awakening "bounce" was healing based off the amount healed on her after the guardian spirit increase).
Seems like you'd want to abuse a feral with Nurturing Instinct then for the constant 20% multiplier.
Would it work to Beacon her, then spam Holy Light on a feral druid with the +20% healing taken in cat form talent (Nurturing Instinct I think)?
No, this will cause the druid to take more healing and valithria will take the unbuffed healing. It's the same with beacon normally, when I beacon a warrior and then heal myself, I get healed for more because of the +5% healing received from my prot talents
To be honest I don't know that for sure, but the buff you get isn't only restricted to healing you do to her. My guess is that the beacon thing would probably work since ancestral awakening worked like that when guardian spirit was up on the boss (so the ancestral awakening "bounce" was healing based off the amount healed on her after the guardian spirit increase).
Seems like you'd want to abuse a feral with Nurturing Instinct then for the constant 20% multiplier.
It would work, but unless hard mode is much harder, I don't see the need for paladins to be bombing heals on a cat that's sitting on full health when there are tanks that probably need the healing more.
It would be better to get a warlock with Demonic Aegis to put up Demon Armor I think, as both Demonology and Destruction warlocks pick up that talent anyway.
It's definitely best to send the same healers in every portal, rotating would gimp overall healing a lot by preventing the stacks from getting high. Keeping one person out of the portal fulltime should be enough raid healing for the fight if the dps is playing well.
I had a hunch the ridiculous raid healing we needed to do was more the dps's fault for not killing quick enough than anything else, I think the tanking on the supressers will help with that a great deal.
Sindragosa is apparently the fight of spectacular fuckups. Between a rogue not moving out for the tomb and freezing 16 people, a healer taunting Sindragosa after an airphase and getting killed, and frequent panicing when targeted by tombs in phase 3, it's been a hugely aggravating fight so far. 2% best attempt before we had to call it today. The fight itself is really pretty easy as long as people don't have trouble running out and don't panic with the tombs.
It's a feral PVP talent. It's not built into normal specs.
Some full cat specs take it since the alternative is spending two points on something like a .5% DPS increase. It is a decent talent for increasing raid survivability, as fights that aren't being farmed are often taxing healers to the fullest and getting the most out of AoE heals, passive healing, etc. can make the difference.
It's a feral PVP talent. It's not built into normal specs.
Some full cat specs take it since the alternative is spending two points on something like a .5% DPS increase. It is a decent talent for increasing raid survivability, as fights that aren't being farmed are often taxing healers to the fullest and getting the most out of AoE heals, passive healing, etc. can make the difference.
I hope you're not discussing Master Shapeshifter as an unnecessary 2 points. Also, points in Infected Wounds is way better for raid survivability than Nurturing.
Yeah. At that point we had the fight down pretty well, were working on better focus on phase 3, and hadn't so far had any real trouble with tombs - one attempt had 6 people tombed because a dps got too eager and ran in early, but nothing else. Suddenly seeing 21 people tombed would have been really funny if it didn't waste an attempt.
It's a feral PVP talent. It's not built into normal specs.
Some full cat specs take it since the alternative is spending two points on something like a .5% DPS increase. It is a decent talent for increasing raid survivability, as fights that aren't being farmed are often taxing healers to the fullest and getting the most out of AoE heals, passive healing, etc. can make the difference.
I hope you're not discussing Master Shapeshifter as an unnecessary 2 points. Also, points in Infected Wounds is way better for raid survivability than Nurturing.
The most likely place to find those points would be Feral Aggression, since each point in there is a 3% increase to an ability that accounts for about 5% of our total damage. I've seen no need to spring for Nuturing Instinct in any raiding build i've done, though. The passive 30% aoe reduction and extra running speed are worth enough damage reduction that I'm typically among the lowest in damage taken in any given raid without it.
In my defense, the moment i tried to bite a guildy - I got an error stating I couldn't bite another vampire. How could I have anticipated Queen Latifa would bite the same rogue I had as my focus? What was I to do? Think on my feet and adapt?? I'm already under enough stress as is watching the dps meters.
Dark Helmet on
And my poor Death Knight that couldn't afford an icon.
It's a feral PVP talent. It's not built into normal specs.
Some full cat specs take it since the alternative is spending two points on something like a .5% DPS increase. It is a decent talent for increasing raid survivability, as fights that aren't being farmed are often taxing healers to the fullest and getting the most out of AoE heals, passive healing, etc. can make the difference.
I hope you're not discussing Master Shapeshifter as an unnecessary 2 points. Also, points in Infected Wounds is way better for raid survivability than Nurturing.
The most likely place to find those points would be Feral Aggression, since each point in there is a 3% increase to an ability that accounts for about 5% of our total damage. I've seen no need to spring for Nuturing Instinct in any raiding build i've done, though. The passive 30% aoe reduction and extra running speed are worth enough damage reduction that I'm typically among the lowest in damage taken in any given raid without it.
Someone in my raid used to take it because he'd pull aggro quite often.
I think they made this change to offset the letting people who get marks die method. Since the marks no longer give blood power, this is not a viable strategy anymore.
Holy crap, that may just make the fight doable for our 25man group. We've been getting him down to about 1mil pretty consistently before we get overwhelmed by marks and people start dying. If the Blood Power gain rate stays more consistent i think we could kill him.
Thats funny. Our guild didn't even know anything changed. We still let the first mark die, and we still had little trouble getting him down. It did seem to me as a healer who watches the blood power and the marks that he was gaining blood power at an alarming rate, but we still managed the fight just fine.
Update: between some of our dps pulling their heads out of their ass, and this change, we finally downed Saurfang! I give this change :^::^:
So seriously, WTF is with the INSANE difficulty difference between the new ICC Weeklys?
It's like the Lottery on whether you get free Epics or fucked in the ass.
Agreed. I was totally ecstatic when my group last night got the one for the frost giant on the ledge near Gunship, which is probably only one of two in the entire dungeon we would have been able to pull off.
On a sidenote, I really enjoy that particular little encounter - the standard 'get away from the guy with the bomb' will wipe you. I like to see conventional raiding wisdom turned on its head - but god help us all if there's ever a fight where you're supposed to stand in fire.
Nobody in the group got anything besides the 5 frost emblems though, I was hoping for some gems or epics.
That particular mechanic is interesting and doable with a bit of practice, but coupled with the frost breath and knockbacks the whole encounter is a frustrating mess.
Might be our resto shaman getting gibbed constantly. Over the course of nine wipes, he died fifteen times.
So we got the one where we were supposed to save some dude from Deathwhisper. We talked about it for a solid 5-10 minutes before the fights. Everything from "healers, make sure you heal him, dps look for him. guys, we have to 1-shot this for it to work". At the end, there he is lying dead on the floor. Our mage says "hey, we 1-shot deathwhisper, why didn't the quest work?" We point to the dead body & he says "oh, were we not supposed to kill him?"
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That'll be so bizarre.
Every other fight pushes you to bring less healers, and this one pushes for more.
Jaraxxus was the weekly on my server this week. I see a group needing heals, so i join up. I'm the 4th pally in there. I see one has 33k mana, so I assume he's the other healer. There's a shammy too with a decent mana pool, so i assume he's the other. The shammy dc's as we pull Gormok, so I figure I'm 2 healing it. I go to town, it's not too bad, but it's a little rough. The other pally kills himself in fire. So now I figure I'm 1 healing it, and i do my best, but I just can't keep folks up through the worms. When I apologized for not being to solo heal it, the third holy pally takes offense.
I might as well have been. I got my wife in to replace the shaman, and watched the heals closely. I was the only pally using sacred shield. Of the 4 (counting the tank). My wife was also the only one of the 4 dks interrupting fireballs on Jaraxxus and moving when she had legion flames (which equals wipe when the mage also isn't spellstealing.)
Heh, yeah, that's like, 3 minutes of holy light spam assuming just 1 pally doing that.
OMG, the size of those splash heals. Especially with 2pc T10 bonus. Does it only buff healing you do on her? like if you dropped them on a blood DK with vampiric blood up would it beacon over to her for that huge amount? Our other holy pally was hitting our DK tank for 50k with his trinkets and CDs popped.
Now that I do think about it, you really wouldn't want to stack a TON of healers on it since the clouds that are in the portal realm are somewhat limited, and if you have too many people going down the odds of them being able to keep their stacks rolling would drop with everyone poaching clouds. I think we were using 3 healers only going into portals to guarantee we all kept our stacks up. A couple healers never dropping their stack do a lot more damage than five healers that can't keep them up.
Can't you just have them all clump up and move together? The debuff from the orbs is an aoe pulse when it goes off.
-People in the portals stack to all recieve buffs
-Tank the mobs on top of the supressers
-Instead of rotating people into the portals like we did, have 1 or 2 people always go in so they get a huge amount of stacks...the question is would it be better to have 1 healer and 1 dps get superpowered so the dps can AoE like mad or 2 healers so then they can burn down the boss quicker (and handle the raid healing with hots that tick for 10k and whatnot)?
The cool thing about going her way is that we got a Frost from the miniboss right before her, so even though we didn't get anywhere with her we got an extra Frost.
It's definitely best to send the same healers in every portal, rotating would gimp overall healing a lot by preventing the stacks from getting high. Keeping one person out of the portal fulltime should be enough raid healing for the fight if the dps is playing well.
I may need to change my pants.
Yes, and yes if you heal a raid member she gets the heal as well
No, this will cause the druid to take more healing and valithria will take the unbuffed healing. It's the same with beacon normally, when I beacon a warrior and then heal myself, I get healed for more because of the +5% healing received from my prot talents
It would work, but unless hard mode is much harder, I don't see the need for paladins to be bombing heals on a cat that's sitting on full health when there are tanks that probably need the healing more.
I hope you're not discussing Master Shapeshifter as an unnecessary 2 points. Also, points in Infected Wounds is way better for raid survivability than Nurturing.
The most likely place to find those points would be Feral Aggression, since each point in there is a 3% increase to an ability that accounts for about 5% of our total damage. I've seen no need to spring for Nuturing Instinct in any raiding build i've done, though. The passive 30% aoe reduction and extra running speed are worth enough damage reduction that I'm typically among the lowest in damage taken in any given raid without it.
http://i.imgur.com/uavL8.jpg
And by you, I mean all our raiders who apparently have a hard time clicking on a buddy and pressing 1.
And my poor Death Knight that couldn't afford an icon.
Personally, I find bloodbolt whirl failures to be FAR more irritating.
Steam: pazython
Update: between some of our dps pulling their heads out of their ass, and this change, we finally downed Saurfang! I give this change :^::^:
It's like the Lottery on whether you get free Epics or fucked in the ass.
Pins!
Agreed. I was totally ecstatic when my group last night got the one for the frost giant on the ledge near Gunship, which is probably only one of two in the entire dungeon we would have been able to pull off.
On a sidenote, I really enjoy that particular little encounter - the standard 'get away from the guy with the bomb' will wipe you. I like to see conventional raiding wisdom turned on its head - but god help us all if there's ever a fight where you're supposed to stand in fire.
Nobody in the group got anything besides the 5 frost emblems though, I was hoping for some gems or epics.
Might be our resto shaman getting gibbed constantly. Over the course of nine wipes, he died fifteen times.