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[WoW] [Raiding] is way too easy
Munkus Beaver
You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
BLIZZARD IS CLEARLY CATERING TO CASUALS
A SLAP IN THE FACE!
BRING BACK HARD DESIGN!
No, I don't do hard modes, why?
A SLAP IN THE FACE!
BRING BACK HARD DESIGN!
No, I don't do hard modes, why?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ToC 10 man hard: Wipe on Beasts of Northrend 20 times, give up.
...as 25man TOGC.
:P
Speaking of which, there's been a guy trying to set up a 25man ToGC on my server.
Yeah.
Imagine my amazement.
If he can find 25 people (24+himself) who can do it, he should really form a guild out of it.
There's a guy who runs pug raids on my server who did 1 light before ToC came out, so PuGs can run pretty well as long as the RL is willing to be absolutely ruthless. The guy's a huge asshole, but his runs are sure successful!
Very plausible, as i've personally run a 25 man ToGC pug 6~ weeks in a row.
Yes, you have to be extremely ruthless and unforgiving.
It personally takes us 60 or so minutes of our personal time to setup and we reserve a trophy for our small 8-12 man casual guild. (casual as in, we raid 2 nights a week)
It's impressive imo (I have 2 piece i245 holy/ret/prot) from doing the 25m pug so many times
:?
If you have multiple groups clearing hardmode 10man each week thats also a fair few more a week.
Just off the top of my head: Thorim, Beasts, Jaraxxus, and more or less every boss in VoA.
I don't know some people managed to get on servers where PUG raids down hard mode shit.
I politely disagree.
As long as the gear is being put to use by a member of the raid that contributes regularly and is a skilled member of the team, as long as the gear isn't being sharded it shouldn't really matter who gets what, aside from tanks.
Back in the Vanilla days, my group and I had a very simple system worked out; I saved up for weapons (specifically, swords), they snagged much of the armour at a reduced cost as I wasn't bidding on them, I snagged most of the upgrade swords for a reasonable sum (and I didn't expect to pay a pittance, but nobody pushed me to my cap even if they could, for example), and it worked fairly well even amongst a heavily populated class such as Rogues were at the time and in my guild.
Letting items get sharded rather than pay a minimum is retarded, and I happily started building up my sets over time as we got down to only a few people needing the pieces, lest they face a fate at a disenchanter's hands, but my priorities differed from those of others, and what of it?
Also, rolling in 5's and 10's is pro. Rolling in 25's is /facepalm worthy, unless it's content so old it's beyond farmed status, and just run by alts for shits and giggles or something.
But what you're talking about Forar sounds like collusion. Which is what I did in vanilla. Me and the top DPS warrior would put dibs on certain pieces of gear so we'd win them unopposed. This pissed off the warlocks, since they were hoarding their DKP to bid against the mages. And the rogues, who refused to cooperate with each other and all wanted the same stuff.
And I got every piece of tanking gear for free since I was able to convince everyone that since I was coming to DPS, and I was spec'd to DPS, and that I was only tanking for the good of the raid and because we needed 6 of them for those limited fights, I got all of my tier 1 gear for free.
It was good to be the king.
I am a freaking nerd.
I suppose so, though with a less negative connotation. I simply didn't bid much on armour, and bid hard on weapons. The other rogues realized this and things just kind of settled into a natural ebb and flow from Molten Core to AQ40/Naxx40 and early T5 (though I didn't finish either instance with my original guild, so it was something of a moot point). There were exceptions; I was the first rogue in my guild to get the T2 gloves, because that "Immune to Disarm" was fucking sexy, rare as it might've been to show up in PVE at the time or not. And I cheerfully paid through the nose for that right.
What I'm trying to say is that I simply put my priority on weapons and stuck with it, and luckily the rest of the rogues weren't assholes about it. Whereas in other instances, I've seen rather blatant arrangements between individuals, within a class or practically guild wide. Small scale examples such as the tanks effectively working out in advance who was getting what piece, and then making a small game of bumping each other around in the bids a bit, one whole class conspiring against the others to ensure that items essentially only they could use would go for a pittance so they could bid hard against classes they shared tokens with in Naxx 40, to simply agreeing to gear the person who could put a rare drop to best use.
I agree that the collusion that can exist with a DKP system can seem shady at best from outside, but I always felt that it was actually a strength of the system in both guilds I did progression raiding for. While dead weight existed in both, it was kept mostly in check, so assuming that everyone's about equal (with variance) it simply let people determine what they wanted to focus on as a priority (based on what their class got the most out of, or what strengths they wanted to focus on or weaknesses they wished to shore up). There were rare exceptions, such as items so good (often trinkets) that people would go all out on them without hesitation and things would go from civil to cutthroat in 10 seconds, to items so rare and powerful that it would be decided that they'd bypass DKP altogether (typically legendaries). Having effective errata or subnotes to a loot system, like most others (especially Loot Council style ones) depends heavily on everyone agreeing and working with things to the best of their ability. As with any system involving people, there's bound to be people who try to game the game in one fashion or another, even if it's just not showing up on farm nights (ignoring the loss of a few points for letting more people get in to drop points as they soak up gear) or outright conspiring to ensure there's no way they can be beaten on drop X. It's only as good as the people you run with.
The rogues would always do this to themselves though, and it wasn't a matter of collusion. They were just bitter, hateful animals.
When people within a DKP system collude and keep prices low, it shows cooperation if nothing else. Good team unity and all that.
It's only an issue when it becomes something like a monopoly, and they are preventing others from bidding what they want on gear.
... I mean, druid shit.
Stay away from my shit!
Onyxia headgear, things that drop from VoA.
We do zero sum plus 20 a night (5 per hour). Normal raid nights work out to right around 25DKP. Min bid is 15, max bid is 150. On nights where stuff like Solace of the Defeated or Death's Verdict drops, we get closer to 30DKP because of the larger dividends from zero sum. When you win a bid, you pay half the difference between you and the next closest: If you bid 100 and the next bid down is 50, you pay 75. It works pretty well.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Somehow our guild turned into nothing but tanks and healers and all the dps went away, so we'll see how that works. Seems like raiding is relatively simple compared to my ZG/Kara/ZA experiences in the past. I ran that whole Obsidian raid on "kill all the dragons first" mode, and that was pretty neat as an off tank. Should be fun running from Onyxia soon as a real tank.
As in, a /castrandom macro could probably do it.
Just keep that in mind. Ony is a lot 'harder' than OS.
Naxx, Ony, Sarth, VoA = technically raiding but so easy for a decent guild group that they are rarely done on a raiding night
Everything else = actual raiding
I wouldn't even put it in quotes, really. Compared to 0 drake sarth, Ony's almost ridiculous. 15 manning her last week dragged on forever in phase 2. Despite the gear upgrades, I'd say it was harder than when I 5 manned sarth 25 pre-3.1. She's not a particularly difficult boss, but Sarth is just pitiful weak without his buddies.
I can't tell you how many fail Sarth pugs I ran before Ulduar came out. It was sad. Though I did get the Staff of Restraint from a very nice Sarth pug, which I rolled 100 on, and then proceeded to use it for 6 months straight.
Is that a challenge? That's a challenge isn't it.
Your honor can only be saved by defeating Sarth+3.... again