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Surprise it's the [Final Fantasy Thread] FF12 Retrospective
Xenogears of Bore
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
From now until the end of the thread I'm going to spend a day talking about various FF games in detail. Feel free to correct any mistakes I made and to add any good fan art, song choices, or opinions as we go along. I plan to do one a day or so until the end of the thread. So here we go.
Previous Posts:
FF1: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12492010&postcount=605
FF2: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12500094&postcount=665
FF3: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12505063&postcount=691
FF4: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12515931&postcount=752
FF5: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12528950&postcount=841
FF6: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12544259&postcount=989
FF7: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12556504&postcount=1266
FF8: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12566315&postcount=1583
FF9: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12573523&postcount=1691
FF10: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12585207&postcount=1914
FF10-2: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12596841&postcount=2118
FF11: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12603937&postcount=2392
FF12: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12609477&postcount=2481
Preface: FF XII. I don't like this game. No, it's not the characters, like kid mc reverse abs, furry trap, British Fantasy Han Solo, BASCH FON RONSENBURG, princess hot pants, Jail Bait Hammer Pants, or any of the rest. It's not the setting, nor the semi realistic artwork, and it's not even the lackluster music or the story that falls apart halfway through. It's the Offline MMOness of it all. At least .HACK was self aware of this absurdity.
FINAL FANTASY XII
Release date(s)
Playstation 2
JP March 16, 2006
NA October 31, 2006
PAL February 23, 2007
INT August 9, 2007
What's the Deal?
Final Fantasy Motherfucking Twelve, one of the most divisive games ever released. You either love it or you hate it; the middle ground is tiny and you don't want to be in it. Anyways, FF XII is a departure in many ways. It started as a Matsuno game (of Ogre Battle and FFT fame) and is set in the world of Ivalice at about the same time as FFTA2. Started is of course the right term because this game allegedly drove him temporarily mad, and he had to bow out halfway through the development process. It had the longest continual development period of any Final Fantasy game because of that and it definitely explains why the plot and character advancement system seems so disjointed, especially the plot after you get to around the halfway point. Before that the plot was your typically well written Matsuno affair of political intrigue and back stabbery. He also did right by the extensive macro system the game uses as the primary party controls known as the Gambit system. Clearly influenced by the Quest Ogre Battle games of old, but greatly expanded upon. In the OB games you sent squads out with rudimentary orders (go here, capture this, patrol these two points, etc) and when it came time to battle you had a few preset "strategies" such as focus on weakest unit, leader, random, that sort of thing. Gambits however are exhaustively complicated computer commands that with enough forethought you can get the game to play itself. Computer logic skills will benefit people greatly in mastering this system, and locking the more complicated Gambits until later along with keeping the Mist attacks until later help people slowly get acclimated to the unusual system. Graphics are nice, but suffer that late last gen need to look realistic, lots of browns and earth tones and such. Also of note is the "interesting" use of selling certain items at certain times at the bazaar, and of course the ridiculous amount of extra plot free mercenary hunts you can go on with your guild, a nod to FFTA. The story of this game? Something about Judges, political intrigue, betrayal, princess hot pants, Espers, evil Cid, and other crap. Watch Star Wars for a general idea.
What sucks about it?
Everything but the voice acting. Oh wait, you want nuanced content here. Ok. The real time turn based combat takes you out of the game. Some people like it, other people hate it. Some people tell the people who don't like it to stuff it, or if they want they can just order people every turn like usual. The License board feels like someone tried to strap on a version of the Sphere Grid at the last second. It's unintuitive at best. What do you mean I need permission to use this type of sword, or to wear this hat? That doesn't make any fucking sense at all! The music is so-so, the graphics flip between impressive and downright lazy, and Vaan's abs are the stuff of nightmares. The story falls apart halfway through, and least FF VIII's story was consistently bad. Of special ire to some is the interesting, but not unknown to the series quirk of having some treasure chests that you don't want to open if you want the better loot in the game. Of course those complainers never mention that there is another way to get the sphere, but they'll counter with the fact that there is nothing to distinguish those chests that shouldn't be opened from ones that can be opened to no harmful effect.
Which Version to Play?
I've heard tell that the International version, with no English at all unfortunately, improves the License Board something fierce. But I guess you should just play one of the western games instead.
Fun Facts:
ZODIAC KILLER: The most powerful weapon in the game has a trick to it that those who have to open EVERY treasure chest would miss out on. There are 4 places with treasure chests that must NOT be opened in order for the Zodiac Spear to appear:
1) Treasure chest in Lowtown, outside of Old Dalan's place
2) When sneaking into the palace (Before getting the Goddess Tear), there are several chests in the Cellar. Do not open the two chests in the southeast corner.
3) All treasure chests in the Confiscatory (the place where you get your weapons and armor back after being captured)
4) In the Phon Coast, later in the game, there is an island with 16 chests all near each other. The 4th chest that must NOT be opened is among these, so it is best to leave them all alone. They only contain Gil anyway.
If you've left all these treasures be, you'll find the Zodiac Spear in the Necrohol of Nabudis. It sports a whopping +150 attack and, like all spears, +8 Evasion. Yes I stole that right from Gamefaqs, I used the offical guide to get it myself.
You Sure this isn't on the 360: This game has achievements for all sorts of stuff, like getting to a certain level, stealing enough crap or killing Jizz Mat.
Power Leveling: Character levels for newly joined party members work kind of like they do in FF VI, Current Party level plus one or two extra levels. This means if you level Vaan before the break in, everyone else gets to join in on the sweet, sweet, leveling. In that vain there is a zombie monster you can kill with the good old phoenix down trick that you can get to respawn over and over again by leaving the area right after you kill it but before the exp shows up.
Weapons Are Really Goofy In this game: Unarmed uses level and STR, 1-H swords, 2-H swords, spears, crossbows and rods all use STR, Maces use MAG, and MAG only, Katanas and Staves use MAG and STR, weighted higher towards STR at higher levels, Axes, hammers and handbombs do random damage but use STR and VIT for certain modifiers, (Axes and Hammers do random damage in a LOT of FF games actually) Daggers, Ninja Swords and Bows use STR and SPD. Speed grows really slowly though so the modifier is a bit more generous, making some of these weapons really good for their level most of the time. Guns do semi random damage based on their stats alone, as they ignore both your offensive stats and the opponents defensive stats.
But Status Sucks in FF Games...: The best spells in this game are all buffs and debuffs, seriously. Most of the best (most broken) spell combos involve making the enemies do jack squat or basically kill themselves while keeping you minty fresh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSyfGm6wXgs
The only video you ever need for this game.
Previous Posts:
FF1: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12492010&postcount=605
FF2: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12500094&postcount=665
FF3: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12505063&postcount=691
FF4: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12515931&postcount=752
FF5: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12528950&postcount=841
FF6: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12544259&postcount=989
FF7: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12556504&postcount=1266
FF8: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12566315&postcount=1583
FF9: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12573523&postcount=1691
FF10: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12585207&postcount=1914
FF10-2: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12596841&postcount=2118
FF11: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12603937&postcount=2392
FF12: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=12609477&postcount=2481
Preface: FF XII. I don't like this game. No, it's not the characters, like kid mc reverse abs, furry trap, British Fantasy Han Solo, BASCH FON RONSENBURG, princess hot pants, Jail Bait Hammer Pants, or any of the rest. It's not the setting, nor the semi realistic artwork, and it's not even the lackluster music or the story that falls apart halfway through. It's the Offline MMOness of it all. At least .HACK was self aware of this absurdity.
FINAL FANTASY XII
Release date(s)
Playstation 2
JP March 16, 2006
NA October 31, 2006
PAL February 23, 2007
INT August 9, 2007
What's the Deal?
Final Fantasy Motherfucking Twelve, one of the most divisive games ever released. You either love it or you hate it; the middle ground is tiny and you don't want to be in it. Anyways, FF XII is a departure in many ways. It started as a Matsuno game (of Ogre Battle and FFT fame) and is set in the world of Ivalice at about the same time as FFTA2. Started is of course the right term because this game allegedly drove him temporarily mad, and he had to bow out halfway through the development process. It had the longest continual development period of any Final Fantasy game because of that and it definitely explains why the plot and character advancement system seems so disjointed, especially the plot after you get to around the halfway point. Before that the plot was your typically well written Matsuno affair of political intrigue and back stabbery. He also did right by the extensive macro system the game uses as the primary party controls known as the Gambit system. Clearly influenced by the Quest Ogre Battle games of old, but greatly expanded upon. In the OB games you sent squads out with rudimentary orders (go here, capture this, patrol these two points, etc) and when it came time to battle you had a few preset "strategies" such as focus on weakest unit, leader, random, that sort of thing. Gambits however are exhaustively complicated computer commands that with enough forethought you can get the game to play itself. Computer logic skills will benefit people greatly in mastering this system, and locking the more complicated Gambits until later along with keeping the Mist attacks until later help people slowly get acclimated to the unusual system. Graphics are nice, but suffer that late last gen need to look realistic, lots of browns and earth tones and such. Also of note is the "interesting" use of selling certain items at certain times at the bazaar, and of course the ridiculous amount of extra plot free mercenary hunts you can go on with your guild, a nod to FFTA. The story of this game? Something about Judges, political intrigue, betrayal, princess hot pants, Espers, evil Cid, and other crap. Watch Star Wars for a general idea.
What sucks about it?
Everything but the voice acting. Oh wait, you want nuanced content here. Ok. The real time turn based combat takes you out of the game. Some people like it, other people hate it. Some people tell the people who don't like it to stuff it, or if they want they can just order people every turn like usual. The License board feels like someone tried to strap on a version of the Sphere Grid at the last second. It's unintuitive at best. What do you mean I need permission to use this type of sword, or to wear this hat? That doesn't make any fucking sense at all! The music is so-so, the graphics flip between impressive and downright lazy, and Vaan's abs are the stuff of nightmares. The story falls apart halfway through, and least FF VIII's story was consistently bad. Of special ire to some is the interesting, but not unknown to the series quirk of having some treasure chests that you don't want to open if you want the better loot in the game. Of course those complainers never mention that there is another way to get the sphere, but they'll counter with the fact that there is nothing to distinguish those chests that shouldn't be opened from ones that can be opened to no harmful effect.
Which Version to Play?
I've heard tell that the International version, with no English at all unfortunately, improves the License Board something fierce. But I guess you should just play one of the western games instead.
Fun Facts:
ZODIAC KILLER: The most powerful weapon in the game has a trick to it that those who have to open EVERY treasure chest would miss out on. There are 4 places with treasure chests that must NOT be opened in order for the Zodiac Spear to appear:
1) Treasure chest in Lowtown, outside of Old Dalan's place
2) When sneaking into the palace (Before getting the Goddess Tear), there are several chests in the Cellar. Do not open the two chests in the southeast corner.
3) All treasure chests in the Confiscatory (the place where you get your weapons and armor back after being captured)
4) In the Phon Coast, later in the game, there is an island with 16 chests all near each other. The 4th chest that must NOT be opened is among these, so it is best to leave them all alone. They only contain Gil anyway.
If you've left all these treasures be, you'll find the Zodiac Spear in the Necrohol of Nabudis. It sports a whopping +150 attack and, like all spears, +8 Evasion. Yes I stole that right from Gamefaqs, I used the offical guide to get it myself.
You Sure this isn't on the 360: This game has achievements for all sorts of stuff, like getting to a certain level, stealing enough crap or killing Jizz Mat.
Power Leveling: Character levels for newly joined party members work kind of like they do in FF VI, Current Party level plus one or two extra levels. This means if you level Vaan before the break in, everyone else gets to join in on the sweet, sweet, leveling. In that vain there is a zombie monster you can kill with the good old phoenix down trick that you can get to respawn over and over again by leaving the area right after you kill it but before the exp shows up.
Weapons Are Really Goofy In this game: Unarmed uses level and STR, 1-H swords, 2-H swords, spears, crossbows and rods all use STR, Maces use MAG, and MAG only, Katanas and Staves use MAG and STR, weighted higher towards STR at higher levels, Axes, hammers and handbombs do random damage but use STR and VIT for certain modifiers, (Axes and Hammers do random damage in a LOT of FF games actually) Daggers, Ninja Swords and Bows use STR and SPD. Speed grows really slowly though so the modifier is a bit more generous, making some of these weapons really good for their level most of the time. Guns do semi random damage based on their stats alone, as they ignore both your offensive stats and the opponents defensive stats.
But Status Sucks in FF Games...: The best spells in this game are all buffs and debuffs, seriously. Most of the best (most broken) spell combos involve making the enemies do jack squat or basically kill themselves while keeping you minty fresh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSyfGm6wXgs
The only video you ever need for this game.
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
Xenogears of Bore on
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Posts
I get to say this because I am first
As spoken by UncleSporky, Dissidia talk is VERBOTEN. You can't speak about Dissidia.
FINAL FANTASY THREAD
A thread about Fantasy's that are Final. Not Phantasy. Not Dragon Quest. Not Lost Odyssey. Not even Kingdom Hearts (You want a KH thread, that's fine, go make one.
You can however talk about:
Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy III
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
and the spinoffs
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Final Fantasy X-2
Dirge of Cerberus
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronics: Ring of Fate
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2: Grimoire of the Rift
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Final Fantasy IV: The After Years - Kor is right and I should be ashamed, this also reminded me I forgot all the Wiiware games)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Whatever the hell the second DS one was (Echoes of Time? It's actually pretty good)
Final Fantasy Crystal Defenders
[strike]Dissidia[/strike] - NO DISSIDIA TALK AT ALL, SO SAYETH UNCLESPORKY, SO SHALL IT BE DONE.
Vinyl Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Record Store Clerk (My Life as a Darklord is awesome)
Final Fantasy Gaiden: 4 Warriors of Light
SHIT I FORGOT ALL ABOUT
Final Fantasy:Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers.
I guess if you really want to you can talk about the Mana game released under the FF Adventure title or the three SaGa games released under the FF Legends Banner.
Anything about the games above is fair game. If I missed one please ridicule me in the thread.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Being the gaming heathen that I am I have never played Final Fantasy 6.
What would be the most reliable way to get my hands on this if anyone has any recommendations?
Also, I remember Mystic Quest. I didn't even know it was a FF spinoff until I saw the GT retrospectives. I beat it and remember it all vividly to this day.
Shit now I need to look up all the chocobo games. I'm proud (not really) to say I did that list without looking at wikipedia or gamefaqs.
EDIT: Technically none of those games have FF in the title, so I'm in the clear.
The only Final Fantasy game I'm really paying attention to at the moment
Genuinely curious how that's going to turn out.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I give it 3 pages until we discuss Kingdom Hearts.
And 5 pages until we get into a gigantic "My Final Fantasy is better than your Final Fantasy argument", since it isn't outlawed anymore.
P.S. KH2 > FFXII
Type away!
Also I love Sword of Mana and two of the three SaGA games, so go right ahead and talk about them. :P
Why wait? I can break the KH/Dissidia restriction with one picture.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
"Oh no, here comes the 403 Forbidden! Run!!!"
PS2
FF X replay
PS3
God of War 1&2 HD
Rachet and Clank Future
MGS 4
Prince of Persia
360
Bayonetta
Fable 3
DS
FF: 4 heroes of light
But it gains the advantage by only having ONE terrible dressed emo character.
Fixed
So now Danbooru doesn't allow hotlinking either? Fuck 'em.
In all seriousness, around what time on Friday is the update supposed to go up? Could it go live tonight at midnight?
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Besides sounding sort of like a Nomura wet dream game there is something here to talk about.
KH 2 is a shit sandwich with a side of steamboat willy and Tron.
FF XII is a turd burger with a side of Balthier being Balthier.
One has a terribly convoluted plot that goes nowhere slow and the other has half the plot of star wars and then throws reason to the wind and goes beyond the impossible. Also bounty hunts that are really fun.
What?
Which one?
Also, Lost Odyssey is more FFXII than FFXII is.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I was going to LP it starting this week but then remembered how busy I was going to be until the week before Christmas, so I'm putting it off, again.
Test run went well though.
FFIII
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
FFIV DS or FFVI, the two best games in the series.
PS2
FF X replay
PS3
God of War 1&2 HD
Rachet and Clank Future
MGS 4
Prince of Persia
360
Bayonetta
Fable 3
DS
FF: 4 heroes of light
I now realize it's SUPPOSED to be funny.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I would say so. LO had the ridiculously terrible characters, dialogue, and plot that FFX had for sure.
It had so much potential. Why not just make it a 20 hour long game about Kaim!?
But even he got on my nerves when I realized it was Keanu Reeves.
On topic:
That new FF Gaiden game on the DS strokes my nuggles.
Same with the GBA version, which while not quite as handsome as FF1 PSP has better music.
I'll take the NES original over either of them any day of the week.
FF II however is nearly saved by the remakes, making the flow much better and adding a cute little side dungeon for beating the game.
what the hell is inal Fantasy? :P
PS3 Trophies
Sorry, that title should be Vinyl Fantasy: My Life as a Record Store Clek.
Well, as long as it involves patronizing customers and saying how Dark Side of the Moon really syncs up to [insert random movie here], I'm all for it!
PS3 Trophies
Clek. Lol.
Morrigan. And even then you can change her clothes so it doesn't even have that.
Yes, do this.
I don't remember a Morrigan from XII.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
He was talking about DA though...>_>...as for badly dressed in FFXII.
>_>...pick one.