I'm just tired of their lame in-game cinematics. One of the most awesome things about Blizzard is their pre-rendered cinematics. I'm tired of ugly ass human character models with shite lip synching messing up any pseudo-immersion I might have. Wrathgate sucked and so does this.
The biggest issue between warcraft 1-3 is the changing of the world in general. If you look at the world map from 1 and then look at 3 there are major differences. I attribute this to better cartogrophers but whatever helps you get by plot holes would work fine. In terms of the changing/evolving major characters we can call that Lucas syndrome and be done with it.
I'm just tired of their lame in-game cinematics. One of the most awesome things about Blizzard is their pre-rendered cinematics. I'm tired of ugly ass human character models with shite lip synching messing up any pseudo-immersion I might have. Wrathgate sucked and so does this.
Terenas's giant hand passing a foot over Arthas' face made me lol
So what was so horrible in WC3 compared to 1 and 2?
Elaborating something thats already kind of silly makes it bad. See: making a detailed background world from the platforming game Sonic the Hedgehog. Is there something wrong with the background story of Sonic the Hedgehog? Not really, no. Is the Sonic backstory terrible now? Mhmm.
WC 3 is a strategy game though, and its all good. WoW's story is dumb, but its all good, because we aren't playing it for the story. Complaining about one particular part of the story being especially terrible, though? That's missing the fact that its all dumb.
i'd rather they not devote resources to appeasing three hundred angry nerds across the internet and instead funnel it towards a cinematic for say, cataclysm
A lot of things in life have made me apathetic. This is just another thing, in a long list, that I care nothing about. If anything I thought it was kind of funny.
Shit Arcanis, let's fire Samwise and these expensive motherfuckers while we're at it. It's not like graphics are a integral part of the game or anything. Superficial shit must go.
"Angry" nerd is so laughable. We play the game. The gameplay is good. We hold Blizzard to a higher standard because we know what they're capable of. But we now know a coherent MMO plot is not one of those things. Might as well start treating it like Warhammer's slushy fluff, only less fun as far as lore goes.
Cataclysm will likely be worse.
But we will still bitch. We will never stop. Because there must always be a bitching.
EDIT: The cinematics are done by the Return guys. They do a good job considering the six-year-old models they're dealing with. I do hope we get model updates for player races.
what's dumb about it? because they're wrapping up the storyline for a main antagonist since the Frozen Throne?
and i get that there will always be gripes, i guess i just don't understand why; it is what it is. they want to wrap up the scourge plotlines and push them aside so we can get to deathwing.
what's dumb about it? because they're wrapping up the storyline for a main antagonist since the Frozen Throne?
We covered this. It completely ignores Ner'zhul, and then somehow ascribes power to the armor while ignoring Ner'zhul. And in a broader sense of designing a boss it fails. It turns out that the big baddie that we thought was a threat, was not actually a threat, he was actually helping us in a way by holding the scourge back.
so you're saying that if they paid lipservice to ner'zhul, an NPC that hasn't played any major role since the beginning of WC3, that it would suddenly be all okay and totally make sense?
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
so you're saying that if they paid lipservice to ner'zhul, an NPC that hasn't played any major role since the beginning of WC3, that it would suddenly be all okay and totally make sense?
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
Zer'zhul, being the Lich King, was a huge player all throughout WC3, and a huge background threat all throughout WoW, up until the time that Blizzard changed its mind and said that the Lich King was basically just Arthas. The Lich King appeared to have a pretty clear goal of destroying civilization and/or turning everyone undead.
By executing the plan of killing Arthas, everything would have gotten worse. That's not how defeating a boss is supposed to work. Only the magical interference of Terenas saved us from that.
Meanwhile, the much simpler and elegant way to handle it, is to just kill the Lich King. Done. There's no need to add in some situation where the Scourge somehow become much more dangerous without a massively psychically powerful being to guide them.
so you're saying that if they paid lipservice to ner'zhul, an NPC that hasn't played any major role since the beginning of WC3, that it would suddenly be all okay and totally make sense?
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
ner'zhul didn't even take the demons up on their bargain because of what they'd do to the orcs he loves so, so they tortured him and put him in a block of ice.
he expands a bit, subjugates a few races, kills a few, raises them etc.
he sees the orcs eventually in Azeroth somewhere, attacks them anyway
so you're saying that if they paid lipservice to ner'zhul, an NPC that hasn't played any major role since the beginning of WC3, that it would suddenly be all okay and totally make sense?
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
ner'zhul didn't even take the demons up on their bargain because of what they'd do to the orcs he loves so, so they tortured him and put him in a block of ice.
he expands a bit, subjugates a few races, kills a few, raises them etc.
he sees the orcs eventually in Azeroth somewhere, attacks them anyway
Wait why?
EXACTLY! Ner'Zhul is lost as a character after WC2.
so you're saying that if they paid lipservice to ner'zhul, an NPC that hasn't played any major role since the beginning of WC3, that it would suddenly be all okay and totally make sense?
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
ner'zhul didn't even take the demons up on their bargain because of what they'd do to the orcs he loves so, so they tortured him and put him in a block of ice.
he expands a bit, subjugates a few races, kills a few, raises them etc.
he sees the orcs eventually in Azeroth somewhere, attacks them anyway
Wait why?
EXACTLY! Ner'Zhul is lost as a character after WC2.
Just thought about it, I'm not sure he's mentioned anywhere in WC3. But I'm probably wrong, I know the acolytes say My life for Aiur - I mean Ner'zhul.
what's dumb about it? because they're wrapping up the storyline for a main antagonist since the Frozen Throne?
We covered this. It completely ignores Ner'zhul, and then somehow ascribes power to the armor while ignoring Ner'zhul. And in a broader sense of designing a boss it fails. It turns out that the big baddie that we thought was a threat, was not actually a threat, he was actually helping us in a way by holding the scourge back.
I remember reading a blue post on I think MMO Champion that
Ner'zhul's story is not done - I expect him to be a Medivh sort later on.
Oh god, you're on my Battlegroup, assuming that's US anyway, which I assume so.
I was in a H VH with a friend who just came back to WoW after 8 months (muhahahaha), where we had a Hunter who seriously wasn't even trying. He was doing around 600dps for the first part of the instance, rising to around 800dps average by the end. He was frequently joining us in engaging the mobs when they were already below 50%. During one of the breaks I inspected him, almost all level 200-232 Epics, couple of 200 blues (including his staff). Not a single thing enchanted or gemmed. Still pathetic damage though, gems and enchants don't add that much considering the gear level we're talking.
Staff of Trickery dropped, which he won, but I was seriously contemplating kicking him before the last boss.
Are you horde?
Do you remember this hunter's name?
I've got a friend who picked up the Staff of Trickery on his hunter last night, wondering if that's him...
Oh god, I used Elitist Groups' cache to figure out who it was, and not only is he on my battlegroup, he's actually on Darkspear. God dammit.
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
The Lich King converts the entire world into an army under his command...takes control over the Dark Portals....bam. He can now defend himself against a very upset Burning Legion and even take the fight to them if he wants.
I do play this game at least in part for the storyline. Maybe I'm a little crazy but I like following the exploits of my favorite heroes and villains and being a part of that. It sours the experience when the storyline is poorly written and/or dumb.
It's not that hard to come up with a much better story than the one they provided. The Lich King's split personalities spending five years arguing with each other is boring and mundane. The Lich King fighting against a stirring Old God he partially freed while attempting to fortify Icecrown and build his army = fun! That would have been the perfect reason why the Lich King hasn't wiped out Azeroth in the past five years...he's been distracted with a much more powerful adversary.
Am I the only one who feels like the Lich King saga has really jumped the shark. Personally, I want it to be over after ICC. Let's end it, wrap it up, make it nice and tight and move on.
"I read the story but I know better than the writers so I get angry when things don't follow the way I want them to." sounds an awful like "I play the game but I know better than the designers so I get angry when the classes don't work the way I want them to." which is an argument style I hear the silly geese at the official WoW boards using.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2010
The resolution to the Lich King story is bad. Just plan bad. It is an example of poor writing. I would use it to teach a class about plot-holes and thinking things through.
Saying that the Lich King is holding back some amount of the undead horde is lazy writing, blatantly ignoring all those quests where you prove that all remainders of his humanity are gone. It's ignoring years of gameplay that show that the undead are constantly putting Sentients under siege. It is ignoring the fact that many, many, many, many, many characters in WoW have 'broken free of the Lich King's will' and have joined the established factions without regret.
In short, it is bad, lazy writing.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The resolution to the Lich King story is bad. Just plan bad. It is an example of poor writing. I would use it to teach a class about plot-holes and thinking things through.
Saying that the Lich King is holding back some amount of the undead horde is lazy writing, blatantly ignoring all those quests where you prove that all remainders of his humanity are gone. It's ignoring years of gameplay that show that the undead are constantly putting Sentients under siege. It is ignoring the fact that many, many, many, many, many characters in WoW have 'broken free of the Lich King's will' and have joined the established factions without regret.
In short, it is bad, lazy writing.
I think they could have taken the total opposite side of things, instead of there needing to be a Lich King to hold the Scourge back, why couldn't we remove him to cause chaos among them. I like the idea of all the factions within the Scourge turning on eachother without a strong leader, plus it always leaves open the possibility in the future of a leader emerging from this civil war so they can return as a threat later on.
I feel like they fired their writers some time ago, and the new ones just went wherever they felt like with it.
That's nothing really new though.
Leveling up, WotLK's story was actually significantly above par for WoW (which got me excited and set me up to be disappointed). But then the reveal in the Arthas book reared its ugly head (and that's how we should have seen this shit coming) and throw in the recent storyline with the Lich King and its all screwed up.
Edit: Oh and yeah, Garrosh a hero? Still don't fucking see it. Some people like his warmongering, but out of most of the people who care enough to have an opinion, I think he'd be lucky to only irritate them.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Isn't the net profit of WoW like 400 million a month? I find it hard to believe that a 2 minute CGI video strains their financial and artistic boundaries to the breaking point. WoW makes more money than some countries.
I'm glad I watched that early so I can ESC out of it tomorrow night. Very bad. I do play this game for the lore just as much as I play for the challenge found in raiding. I've been playing in the WC universe since I was a young lad, starting with WC1: Orcs and Humans. The lore has always gripped me, but this is fucking lackluster at best. Also, was
Bolvar's head not even complete? It looks like it's not even finished. It just ends sharply.
Isn't the net profit of WoW like 400 million a month? I find it hard to believe that a 2 minute CGI video strains their financial and artistic boundaries to the breaking point. WoW makes more money than some countries.
Don't those CGI things take them like a year to do? I think they mentioned how long the TBC one took on the collectors edition DVD but I don't have it to hand, plus the cost of them must be pretty huge.
They've shown they're capable of delivering decent story through the in-game cutscenes without having to use CGI (Wrathgate, 3.2 trailer). I don't really see how making that same movie in CGI would have made it any better aside from the thing in your spoiler looking better.
I feel like they fired their writers some time ago, and the new ones just went wherever they felt like with it.
That comic I really hope and pray that other than the characters {most of them at least} does not enter the game
Edit: Oh and yeah, Garrosh a hero? Still don't fucking see it. Some people like his warmongering, but out of most of the people who care enough to have an opinion, I think he'd be lucky to only irritate them.
I really want to see what they do to make him likeable
Isn't the net profit of WoW like 400 million a month? I find it hard to believe that a 2 minute CGI video strains their financial and artistic boundaries to the breaking point. WoW makes more money than some countries.
Don't those CGI things take them like a year to do? I think they mentioned how long the TBC one took on the collectors edition DVD but I don't have it to hand, plus the cost of them must be pretty huge.
I think the year part is the big killer. I don't think they had a clear enough idea how they were going to finish the storyline a year ago.
The resolution to the Lich King story is bad. Just plan bad. It is an example of poor writing. I would use it to teach a class about plot-holes and thinking things through.
Saying that the Lich King is holding back some amount of the undead horde is lazy writing, blatantly ignoring all those quests where you prove that all remainders of his humanity are gone. It's ignoring years of gameplay that show that the undead are constantly putting Sentients under siege. It is ignoring the fact that many, many, many, many, many characters in WoW have 'broken free of the Lich King's will' and have joined the established factions without regret.
In short, it is bad, lazy writing.
Aye. The truly pathetic part of this whole thing is that the new Lore from ICC completely contradicts all the lore previously established in this expansion.
As someone said a few posts up, WOTLK had some of the best storytelling in WoW for most of it. They were getting really good at telling a decently interesting story through quests and such.
And it's like for this patch they hired a whole new set of writers who were morons and wanted nothing to do with any previously established storylines.
I guess this maintains the status quo though. Which is dumb considering they have a whole expansion planned in which they could have regigered the entire world to bring it in line with the Lich King being gone.
Posts
that they take two years or so to produce, and cost a hefty amount of money?
Elaborating something thats already kind of silly makes it bad. See: making a detailed background world from the platforming game Sonic the Hedgehog. Is there something wrong with the background story of Sonic the Hedgehog? Not really, no. Is the Sonic backstory terrible now? Mhmm.
WC 3 is a strategy game though, and its all good. WoW's story is dumb, but its all good, because we aren't playing it for the story. Complaining about one particular part of the story being especially terrible, though? That's missing the fact that its all dumb.
If only they had any profitable franchises to bankroll such a project and knew in advance who the big baddy would be.
and paying their customer support
and paying their encounter designers
etc etc etc...
"Angry" nerd is so laughable. We play the game. The gameplay is good. We hold Blizzard to a higher standard because we know what they're capable of. But we now know a coherent MMO plot is not one of those things. Might as well start treating it like Warhammer's slushy fluff, only less fun as far as lore goes.
Cataclysm will likely be worse.
But we will still bitch. We will never stop. Because there must always be a bitching.
EDIT: The cinematics are done by the Return guys. They do a good job considering the six-year-old models they're dealing with. I do hope we get model updates for player races.
and i get that there will always be gripes, i guess i just don't understand why; it is what it is. they want to wrap up the scourge plotlines and push them aside so we can get to deathwing.
I like how they updated NPC races, like Trolls. Now NPC trolls look all business, and the player ones are all scrawny. :x
that's accurate though isn't it
the jungle trolls are supposed to be scrawny compared to the others
and what's so bad about that? remember, the scourge were a tool of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King broke free of them. how is it in his best interest, Arthas, Ner'zhul, whoever, to completely wipe out the world?
and how does it change that he was perceived to be a threat? doesn't matter about his intentions, he was still leading an undead war machine designed by demonic destroyers-of-worlds, he's still a murderer and a psychopath.
By executing the plan of killing Arthas, everything would have gotten worse. That's not how defeating a boss is supposed to work. Only the magical interference of Terenas saved us from that.
Meanwhile, the much simpler and elegant way to handle it, is to just kill the Lich King. Done. There's no need to add in some situation where the Scourge somehow become much more dangerous without a massively psychically powerful being to guide them.
he expands a bit, subjugates a few races, kills a few, raises them etc.
he sees the orcs eventually in Azeroth somewhere, attacks them anyway
Wait why?
His few words dont really give sight to that.
EXACTLY! Ner'Zhul is lost as a character after WC2.
He must do something REALLY awesome in the Lich King fight itself.
Maybe he..
Just thought about it, I'm not sure he's mentioned anywhere in WC3. But I'm probably wrong, I know the acolytes say My life for Aiur - I mean Ner'zhul.
I remember reading a blue post on I think MMO Champion that
Oh god, I used Elitist Groups' cache to figure out who it was, and not only is he on my battlegroup, he's actually on Darkspear. God dammit.
This guy http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&cn=Nachobear
I do play this game at least in part for the storyline. Maybe I'm a little crazy but I like following the exploits of my favorite heroes and villains and being a part of that. It sours the experience when the storyline is poorly written and/or dumb.
It's not that hard to come up with a much better story than the one they provided. The Lich King's split personalities spending five years arguing with each other is boring and mundane. The Lich King fighting against a stirring Old God he partially freed while attempting to fortify Icecrown and build his army = fun! That would have been the perfect reason why the Lich King hasn't wiped out Azeroth in the past five years...he's been distracted with a much more powerful adversary.
Part of what makes a story great is that it ends.
Am I the only one who feels like the Lich King saga has really jumped the shark. Personally, I want it to be over after ICC. Let's end it, wrap it up, make it nice and tight and move on.
Saying that the Lich King is holding back some amount of the undead horde is lazy writing, blatantly ignoring all those quests where you prove that all remainders of his humanity are gone. It's ignoring years of gameplay that show that the undead are constantly putting Sentients under siege. It is ignoring the fact that many, many, many, many, many characters in WoW have 'broken free of the Lich King's will' and have joined the established factions without regret.
In short, it is bad, lazy writing.
Their blood is dark blue when oxygenated, cool.
That's nothing really new though.
Leveling up, WotLK's story was actually significantly above par for WoW (which got me excited and set me up to be disappointed). But then the reveal in the Arthas book reared its ugly head (and that's how we should have seen this shit coming) and throw in the recent storyline with the Lich King and its all screwed up.
Edit: Oh and yeah, Garrosh a hero? Still don't fucking see it. Some people like his warmongering, but out of most of the people who care enough to have an opinion, I think he'd be lucky to only irritate them.
I'm glad I watched that early so I can ESC out of it tomorrow night. Very bad. I do play this game for the lore just as much as I play for the challenge found in raiding. I've been playing in the WC universe since I was a young lad, starting with WC1: Orcs and Humans. The lore has always gripped me, but this is fucking lackluster at best. Also, was
They've shown they're capable of delivering decent story through the in-game cutscenes without having to use CGI (Wrathgate, 3.2 trailer). I don't really see how making that same movie in CGI would have made it any better aside from the thing in your spoiler looking better.
I really want to see what they do to make him likeable
I think the year part is the big killer. I don't think they had a clear enough idea how they were going to finish the storyline a year ago.
Technically, some of them are in the game, but they're basically just window dressing.
Aye. The truly pathetic part of this whole thing is that the new Lore from ICC completely contradicts all the lore previously established in this expansion.
As someone said a few posts up, WOTLK had some of the best storytelling in WoW for most of it. They were getting really good at telling a decently interesting story through quests and such.
And it's like for this patch they hired a whole new set of writers who were morons and wanted nothing to do with any previously established storylines.
I guess this maintains the status quo though. Which is dumb considering they have a whole expansion planned in which they could have regigered the entire world to bring it in line with the Lich King being gone.
Always it was a little bit of hand waving before to explain it, and that was just fine. No need to drag story into it.
Edit: What I mean is, it appears they're bending the story to match the game environment. I much preferred it when they didn't do that.