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[Greece & the Euro] Eurozone reform & EMF to get the go ahead.

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Posts

  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Loklar wrote: »
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    There are fears that banks which are still recovering from the 2008 global banking crisis are exposed to Greek debt.

    Okay, I've got 5,000 Canadian dollars. It's my entire savings. Wat do?

    Buy a shitload of tinned food and flee into the woods.

    If Ford stocks are down, invest in Ford

    Seriously, people who bought Ford stocks when they were at the lowest of the low last year are now sitting on a comfortable ~400% ROI

    It's all about risk isn't it? Buy Greek bonds cheaply, but be aware there is a good chance of never getting the money back.

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    If Ford stocks are down, invest in Ford

    Seriously, people who bought Ford stocks when they were at the lowest of the low last year are now sitting on a comfortable ~400% ROI

    Whereas people that bought (some) US bank stocks at the lowest of the low a few years ago are sitting on $0, since the shares are now worthless.

    adytum on
    etxvv5.jpg
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    That' why I don't think the american investment bank will ever truly recover. The image is so tarnished by corruption at this point

    People were saying the same things after the Savings and Loans scandal

    Could someone explain what Goldman did that was so bad? As I understand it they allowed Greece to trade fees the Greeks would receive in the future for immediate cash, basically a cash advance.

    I understand that this allowed the Greeks to hide some of their debt, but I guess I don't see how thats Goldman's fault. The privacy of financial transactions is a firmly established idea. Additionally, they weren't dealing with some poor schmuck home-owners, a national government is competent enough to understand the deals its signing.

    tinwhiskers on
    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    adytum wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    If Ford stocks are down, invest in Ford

    Seriously, people who bought Ford stocks when they were at the lowest of the low last year are now sitting on a comfortable ~400% ROI

    Whereas people that bought (some) US bank stocks at the lowest of the low a few years ago are sitting on $0, since the shares are now worthless.

    That's why being an intelligent investor is important.

    Ford was never in the same sort of financial trouble the other motor companies were, it had a much more robust international reputation and sales market, and has been noted to be an agile company at developing and getting out new cars quickly.

    So it made no goddamn sense that it was so deflated at the time, and a lot of people were commenting as such.

    So yes, take informed, intelligent risks when the market is down. And marginal governments are always risky to invest in, because state actors have the ability to say "my bad" and default on debts much more easily compared to a large corporation.

    Robman on
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Damn it Greece.

    Now you're hurting the Democrats in the midterms.

    Speaker on
    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    If Ford stocks are down, invest in Ford

    Seriously, people who bought Ford stocks when they were at the lowest of the low last year are now sitting on a comfortable ~400% ROI

    Whereas people that bought (some) US bank stocks at the lowest of the low a few years ago are sitting on $0, since the shares are now worthless.

    That's why being an intelligent investor is important.

    Ford was never in the same sort of financial trouble the other motor companies were, it had a much more robust international reputation and sales market, and has been noted to be an agile company at developing and getting out new cars quickly.

    So it made no goddamn sense that it was so deflated at the time, and a lot of people were commenting as such.

    So yes, take informed, intelligent risks when the market is down. And marginal governments are always risky to invest in, because state actors have the ability to say "my bad" and default on debts much more easily compared to a large corporation.

    That's great and all, but it's irrelevant in regards to what you were saying and the current topic of discussion, Greece.

    Or were you advising him to sink his money into Greek bonds? Because that's sound financial advice and I would like to know more.

    adytum on
    etxvv5.jpg
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Yougottawanna on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    The market is 25% reality and 75% perception.

    As for the Ford commend, I was responding to the fact that the markets are down across the board today and he's likely to find good deals on normally solid stocks.

    Robman on
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    That' why I don't think the american investment bank will ever truly recover. The image is so tarnished by corruption at this point

    People were saying the same things after the Savings and Loans scandal

    Could someone explain what Goldman did that was so bad? As I understand it they allowed Greece to trade fees the Greeks would receive in the future for immediate cash, basically a cash advance.

    I understand that this allowed the Greeks to hide some of their debt, but I guess I don't see how thats Goldman's fault. The privacy of financial transactions is a firmly established idea. Additionally, they weren't dealing with some poor schmuck home-owners, a national government is competent enough to understand the deals its signing.

    Ignore the internal position of Greece in this, Goldman arranged off book loans for Greece knowing full well that they were going to be used to hide Greece's debt position to allow entry to the Euro. Given that Goldman has demonstrated how thin the Chinese Walls are in the company how happy do you think we feel over any advice it gave to other clients in regards to investing or not investing in Greek debt and the Euro in general.

    Or to sum up in my girlfriend's words "Fraud", Goldman helped facilitate Greece's fraudulent entry into the Euro and if any one involved in organising the loans claims they didn't know that was what they were going to be used for hiding Greece's debt to facilitate entry into the Euro then they should be fired for being grossly incompetent and stupid.

    Alistair Hutton on
    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    I'm not sure GM is such a good idea.

    If there is a credit crisis (and the US doesn't have the will/means to bail people out again) then interests rates go up. Almost everyone borrows money in some way to buy a car. And there are enough cars in circulation that people could run their cars a little longer or buy used cars.

    Especially after Cash for Clunkers. I don't think Auto is a great place to invest. Unless they are well-exposed to China and India. And in that case it's probably a pretty long-term investment (5+ years imo).

    Edit: Like, picking stocks is hard. There is risk everywhere. And blahblahblah. Not to throw away the GM idea. I don't know enough about it. I just wouldn't want to rely on American consumers buying anything. I think they are going to get shocked by high interest rates and a sudden urge to save save save.

    Loklar on
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?

    Speaker on
    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?

    NASA lost a probe worth hundreds of millions of dollars because someone forgot to do a unit conversion. Human error is the one constant in human enterprise.

    Robman on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?

    It's more than just that though. Obviously a lot of traders have an eye-out for a panic. They may have jumped at the wrong thing (a computing mistake) but there is a reason why they are jumpy to begin with.

    Loklar on
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Some tidbits from my RSS feed via Tyler Cowen @ Marginal Revolution


    The government's proposals for deep spending cuts already have stoked strong resentments in a country where one in three people is employed in a civil service that, until now, has guaranteed jobs for life.
    In Germany, in contrast, it looks like only about 10% of the labor force works for the government. Knowing the Germans, it's easy to believe that its government employees accomplish as much as the Greeks' despite their smaller population share. This implies that 25% of the Greek labor force is, contrary to official stats, producing nothing.

    So using Sumner's other numbers - and assuming output is roughly proportional to labor force - per-capita GDP is more than 50% higher in Germany than Greece. First-hand observation tells me that's still an understatement, but it still closes a big chunk of the gap between official stats and reality.
    Greece resolved its last sovereign default only in the mid-1960s and Portugal had an International Monetary Fund programme as recently as 1984. (Spain’s modern history is much better, despite holding the record – more than 12 – for most independent sovereign default episodes.)
    Rather than adopting policies to correct the macroeconomic imbalances of the Greek economy in order to restore macroeconomic stability and growth, the newly elected Socialist government further promoted policies for income redistribution and the expansion of the public sector. These policies reflected two aspects of the political and economic system of that period. First, they reflected the political priorities of the newly elected government, which was elected under a promise to the public for a radical change in the socioeconomic system. The expansion of the welfare state in the late 1970s had increased the public’s appetite for additional state transfers and for further measures to lower the gap between low- and high-income groups in the society. Second, they reflected the lack of any constraint, internal or external, in the conduct of economic policy. The debt-to-GDP ratio in 1981 was only 34.5%, despite the fiscal expansion that took place during that year. The debt-to-GDP ratio was the highest of the previous 30 years, but still at a relatively low level by world standards. Thus, the Greek government did not face any difficulties borrowing from the domestic and international markets in the early 1980s. This allowed the government to continue pursuing its expansionary policies. Moreover, the central bank lacked independence, a factor that Alesina (1988) and Cukierman, et. al., (1992) find to be inversely related to inflation. Even though the Currency Committee was officially abolished in 1982, the government continued to set the broad outlines of monetary and exchange rate policies during the 1980s. This meant that monetary policy was dominated by the need to finance fiscal expansion.
    The regional governments already account for 57 percent of Spain’s public spending, double the level of two decades ago, according to Carlos Sebastián, economics professor at Complutense University in Madrid.

    adytum on
    etxvv5.jpg
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I love how they just argued for the superiority of the German master race

    oops

    Robman on
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    I love how they just argued for the superiority of the German master race

    oops

    Did you actually read the article, or are you just being snarky?

    adytum on
    etxvv5.jpg
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    adytum wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    I love how they just argued for the superiority of the German master race

    oops

    Did you actually read the article, or are you just being snarky?

    Yes

    Mainly I was seizing on their comment that 10% of Germany = 35% of Greece

    Robman on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Germans: Brutally Efficient.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wait, are you guys seriously talking about buying Greek bonds? Are you nuts? Sometimes things fall for very good reasons, and since Greece seriously looks like it is in a position that it has a decent chance to default on its debt, the bondholders could easily get wiped out. You have to have a deathwish or be the IMF if you want to jump into Greek bonds now.

    The Euro has been getting killed in the exchange rates in the past few days too, as there looks like there is a remote possibility that it will start to tear apart at the seams with the trouble in Greece, Portugal, and Spain.

    Savant on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    enc0re on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    I'm going to heavily invest in 8-tracks and friendster.

    Loklar on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    I'm going to heavily invest in 8-tracks and friendster.

    Hey remember in the late 80s/ early 90s when Canada was totally going to tear itself apart?

    Yeah the EU and the Euro aren't going away, if anything these troubles will push for consolidation of more power in Brussels

    Robman on
  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?
    jr9vyo.jpg
    Disclaimer: Shameless stolen from one Skipplington Q. Dumptruck. All rights reserved.

    firewaterword on
    Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?

    Yes, because I'm a programmer and know that when you're working with computers that kind of silly thing is always bound to happen.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I found this tidbit about the whole thing quite insightful.
    But even if we are able to trace the start of the decline to a single proximate cause—a trader's mistake, a rumor about the Greek bailout negotiations—it is unlikely to explain the bizarre force of this eruption in the markets. What's important about this story is not how the mini-crash started, but how quickly it snowballed.

    Whatever the initial cause was, its effects were almost certainly vastly amplified by a market primed to react to even minor events with startling speed. This is likely to turn out to be a story about a market made ever-more treacherous by traders with ever-more-powerful computers, many of them relying on “momentum” strategies that buy stocks as they rise and sell them as they start falling, prepped to make massive trades at any sign of a shift in the market.

    http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/money-trail/2010/05/06/what-caused-plunge

    Not to get too off topic.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    There's risk and return, and then there's madness. The fundamentals of the Greek situation are rather dire, and I'm doubtful that they'll be able to pay things back even if they get life support from the IMF. Their primary deficit (the deficit not including paying interest on debt) was 8.5% of GDP in 2009, so even if they did default they'd still be in the hole and need austerity. They are stuck in the straitjacket that is the Euro, so they are faced with rather nasty deflation. And with such a huge portion of the populace in the public sector with endemic tax evasion in the private sector, I'm not seeing any straightforward way for them to right their ship.

    Even if somehow you as a buyer of Greek bonds are able to dodge those issues, either by intervention from the IMF or other members of the Eurozone or by divine intervention, you'd only be able to capture a yield of about 11%. An extremely high chance of losing your shirt for a 11% yield doesn't sound that hot to me. I'd rather ride the stock rollercoaster than do that if I had an appetite for risk, because there's a lot better potential upside there.

    Savant on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Loklar wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    I'm going to heavily invest in 8-tracks and friendster.

    Hey remember in the late 80s/ early 90s when Canada was totally going to tear itself apart?

    Yeah the EU and the Euro aren't going away, if anything these troubles will push for consolidation of more power in Brussels

    I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but I was quoted so...

    I think Canada's perennial sovereignty issue is miles apart from Europe's (and friends) debt crisis. Greece will still be there in 10 years; it's a hunk of land. But will they be in a civil war? Will they be using Drachma? Even if they are using Euros, what will they be worth?

    Who cares if some new-age Europe love-in happens where they keep bailing each other out. If they inflate their way out of debt (a form of default) or restructure their debt (a partial default) or switch to the Drachma (default) then investors could get burned.

    And it's not a little burn either. The irony is that Spain and Portugal are on the edge too, but expected to contribute to Greece's bailout. Greece's bailout is being given to them at a 5% interest rate, but Portugal and Spain borrow at 6.5%. So this bailout is stressing on-the-edge nations.

    There is only 1 way through this, and it's a lot of pain for a lot of nations. The question is if it's going to be controlled readjustment (IMF, Austerity Measures, unemployment, inflation, lower quality of life) or uncontrolled (riots, civil war, hyper-inflation).

    *IMO, I'm just some dude. No education in any of this stuff.

    Loklar on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Savant wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    There's risk and return, and then there's madness. The fundamentals of the Greek situation are rather dire, and I'm doubtful that they'll be able to pay things back even if they get life support from the IMF. Their primary deficit (the deficit not including paying interest on debt) was 8.5% of GDP in 2009, so even if they did default they'd still be in the hole and need austerity. They are stuck in the straitjacket that is the Euro, so they are faced with rather nasty deflation. And with such a huge portion of the populace in the public sector with endemic tax evasion in the private sector, I'm not seeing any straightforward way for them to right their ship.

    Even if somehow you as a buyer of Greek bonds are able to dodge those issues, either by intervention from the IMF or other members of the Eurozone or by divine intervention, you'd only be able to capture a yield of about 11%. An extremely high chance of losing your shirt for a 11% yield doesn't sound that hot to me. I'd rather ride the stock rollercoaster than do that if I had an appetite for risk, because there's a lot better potential upside there.

    Since its in everyone's best interest, can't a bunch of countries temporarily (for say, a decade) freeze the interest on Greece's debt?

    Greece could trade olives and feta in exchange or something

    override367 on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Savant wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    There's risk and return, and then there's madness. The fundamentals of the Greek situation are rather dire, and I'm doubtful that they'll be able to pay things back even if they get life support from the IMF. Their primary deficit (the deficit not including paying interest on debt) was 8.5% of GDP in 2009, so even if they did default they'd still be in the hole and need austerity. They are stuck in the straitjacket that is the Euro, so they are faced with rather nasty deflation. And with such a huge portion of the populace in the public sector with endemic tax evasion in the private sector, I'm not seeing any straightforward way for them to right their ship.

    Even if somehow you as a buyer of Greek bonds are able to dodge those issues, either by intervention from the IMF or other members of the Eurozone or by divine intervention, you'd only be able to capture a yield of about 11%. An extremely high chance of losing your shirt for a 11% yield doesn't sound that hot to me. I'd rather ride the stock rollercoaster than do that if I had an appetite for risk, because there's a lot better potential upside there.

    Since its in everyone's best interest, can't a bunch of countries temporarily (for say, a decade) freeze the interest on Greece's debt?

    Greece could trade olives and feta in exchange or something

    If you freeze the interest then everyone who put-in money loses.

    If you put in your savings into Greek Bonds and then some government (EU or IMF) "froze" the debt, then all the sudden your investment is making no interest. Maybe you were counting on that money. And if you hit hard times and need to cash in your bond, nobody will want to buy it (who would want a bond that makes no interest?) Also inflation eats at the value of your bond for every year that the interest is frozen. And Greece could still default, AND you can't use that money to do something else.

    Loklar on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ah okay

    About the stock thing today, am I correct in assuming shit like this is why we need to ban high frequency automated computer trading?

    override367 on
  • BarcardiBarcardi All the Wizards Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ah okay

    About the stock thing today, am I correct in assuming shit like this is why we need to ban high frequency automated computer trading?

    dosnt it account for something like 70% of all trades?


    that being said, damn i wish i was going to europe right now, cheap cheap cheap

    Barcardi on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Ah okay

    About the stock thing today, am I correct in assuming shit like this is why we need to ban high frequency automated computer trading?

    Well it multiplies the smart and the stupid. Today it multiplied the stupid.

    However: if the fundamentals were sound the markets wouldn't have reacted like that. If you shake a house with a solid foundation, nothing much happens. If you shake a house with a weak foundation, shit starts to fall apart. Today indicates that there isn't much confidence in the markets and a lot of people are ready to sell. Which is why I keep on pushing my doom and gloom agenda.

    Loklar on
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Savant wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Ahh, risk and return. It's like there's a trade-off or something.

    There's risk and return, and then there's madness. The fundamentals of the Greek situation are rather dire, and I'm doubtful that they'll be able to pay things back even if they get life support from the IMF. Their primary deficit (the deficit not including paying interest on debt) was 8.5% of GDP in 2009, so even if they did default they'd still be in the hole and need austerity. They are stuck in the straitjacket that is the Euro, so they are faced with rather nasty deflation. And with such a huge portion of the populace in the public sector with endemic tax evasion in the private sector, I'm not seeing any straightforward way for them to right their ship.

    Even if somehow you as a buyer of Greek bonds are able to dodge those issues, either by intervention from the IMF or other members of the Eurozone or by divine intervention, you'd only be able to capture a yield of about 11%. An extremely high chance of losing your shirt for a 11% yield doesn't sound that hot to me. I'd rather ride the stock rollercoaster than do that if I had an appetite for risk, because there's a lot better potential upside there.

    Since its in everyone's best interest, can't a bunch of countries temporarily (for say, a decade) freeze the interest on Greece's debt?

    Greece could trade olives and feta in exchange or something

    Greece could put a moratorium on paying off it's debt, but that fits into the category of defaulting or debt restructuring. There's more than one way they could default or partially default, as they don't need to outright repudiate all of their debt to refuse to meet the obligations of their bonds.

    Defaulting is definitely one of the options on the table right now, which is why their bonds are selling at such a huge discount in the open market. The price of a bond and its interest rate (yield) are inversely related, such that the present value discounting of the coupon payments and final principal repayment is what determines the yield. So for Greece they are getting into a debt death spiral where they have higher obligations of debt for lower up front returns from issuing the bonds, which puts them in an even worse position such that it looks even less likely that they can support the debt, which drives up interest rates and drives down bond prices even further.

    From the standpoint of an investor considering whether to buy Greek bonds, it makes sense that the interest rates would be so high, given the high risk of the bonds returns being changed in a debt restructuring or outright repudiated in a full sovereign bankruptcy. And if Greece does default, it will make it next to impossible for them to get anyone to service future debt and continued deficits at anything less than exorbitant interest rates for many years.

    Greece is stuck with trying to choose the least bad of a selection of horrible choices, since there doesn't appear for there to be a credible way for them to grow their economy enough in the short term in order to reduce their debt burden less painfully.

    Savant on
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    How clear is it that this dip in the dow was definitely related to Greece? The possibility that Greece could default has been around for a while, why would the Dow suddenly react so much to it today?

    Apparently someone at a major trading firm was entering a number and they typed "billion" rather than "million" and the resulting action panicked the market.

    Can you believe that shit?

    Yes, I can.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • AstraphobiaAstraphobia Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I work at the company in question. Tomorrow morning will be very interesting methinks. The internal website will probably be a variation of "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHITNOTHINGTOWORRYABOUT"

    Astraphobia on
    You: GOD NEVERMIND, I'LL JUST CALL THE FUCKING WONDER TWINS MAYBE THEY CAN UNITE TO FORM A FUCKING CLUE FOR YOU
  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, if you're convinced Greece will default, I suppose one way to earn a penny off of that conviction would be to buy Puts on the Aflac stock price, or just short it outright.

    They chose to invest over 1 billion dollars into Greek bonds.

    It would appear they chose...poorly.

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Saint Madness on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Krugman wrote:
    The trouble, of course, is that none of these alternatives seem politically plausible.

    What remains seems unthinkable: Greece leaving the euro. But when you’ve ruled out everything else, that’s what’s left.

    He's forgetting the other unthinkable: Germany leaving the Euro.

    enc0re on
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    Krugman wrote:
    The trouble, of course, is that none of these alternatives seem politically plausible.

    What remains seems unthinkable: Greece leaving the euro. But when you’ve ruled out everything else, that’s what’s left.

    He's forgetting the other unthinkable: Germany leaving the Euro.

    And you sir have forgotten the other unthinkable: the alps turning into marshmallows and then Russia invading Narnia to gain control of the colour blue.

    Alistair Hutton on
    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Martin Wolf's column from the Financial Times.
    wolf wrote:
    The core of Mr Schäuble’s argument was not about the mooted European Monetary Fund, which could not, even if agreed and implemented, alter the pressures created by the huge macroeconomic imbalances within the eurozone. His central ideas are: combining emergency aid for countries running excessive fiscal deficits with fierce penalties; suspending voting rights of badly behaving members within the eurogroup; and allowing a member to exit the monetary union, while remaining inside the European Union. Suddenly, the eurozone is not so irrevocable: Germany has said so.

    Three points can be drawn from this démarche from Europe’s most powerful country: first, it will have an overwhelmingly deflationary impact; second, it is unworkable; and, third, it might pave the way for Germany’s exit from the eurozone.

    enc0re on
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