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The Tragic Death of the Western [Anime Industry]

2456711

Posts

  • hanzohanzo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I watched several of the new shows in Japan, and am now a fan of B-Gata H-Kei (B-Cup Sex Maniac). If it weren't for the fact that I could watch an episode of this show for free online, there would be no way in hell that I would ever see it. If I were to see a DVD labeled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" in Best Buy, I most likely would have no interest in it (I'd also probably think it was a hentai). Even if I was interested, I doubt I'd want to pay $20 just to see what it's like. Even if I was willing to pay $20 to watch something I'd never even heard of before, I doubt I'd be willing to take a DVD titled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" to the counter.

    I'd miss out on a hilarious show that, surprisingly, contains much less fan service than a typical anime.

    This is very true. My wife loves B-Gata H-Kei and if we didn't have a way to "try it out for free" there is no way she would have ever watched it. Hopefully the notion of releasing anime subtitled a week after it launches in Japan will catch on. I don't mind waiting a week if I can watch a legal stream of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Having a way to preview or try Anime before I purchase it is great. I do not miss the old days where I bought a random VHS tape and hoped for the best.

    Now if they would only release the anime I want like K-On in the USA so that I could buy the blu-rays.

    hanzo on
    steam_sig.png
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If Hulu would organize the search results a little better, and maybe add a registration feature so you can have customized queues and playlists (I noticed just the other day they have a button to say if the ads are relevant, so they're doing a least a little tailoring now) it'd be an awesome place to watch anime for free instead of just pretty good.
    I like being able to watch all of season one of One Piece for free.
    I hate that I haven't found any easy way to have it split the search results by dubbed or subbed. It does this for some of current episodes on the main One Piece page, but won't for the back catalog.
    I hate that telling it to sort by air date sometimes results in out of order episodes.
    In general I just kind of hate the way they lay out the browsing pages.
    The player is pretty slick though.

    I hope more anime companies get on board so people who would otherwise pirate or go to sketchy sites with sub-YouTube quality videos have a legit place to go.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I remember an article waaaaay back in the day where the big American companies actually defended their right to charge an MSRP of $129.99 for a season of anime, declaring "We've got to make more per copy because we'll only sell a few hundred thousand copies. Otherwise we won't be able to pay off our costs." If I can track the article down, I'll see if it ever was posted online. It was in Anime Insider, Wizard Entertainment's old anime magazine.

    They just didn't take the internet into consideration when they built their business model, and then they didn't adapt to it well enough when it took off- e.g., not developing a subscription-based website to offer the latest direct-from-Japan episodes, subbed, for like ten bucks a month. They treated it like another retail outlet, and now they're paying the price with all these layoffs.

    I DO like the cheaper anime sets coming out- Eureka Seven's one I've been trying to chase down for a while, and I have it on good authority a discount set of Love Hina will be available in late July.

    JaysonFour on
    steam_sig.png
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    hanzo wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I watched several of the new shows in Japan, and am now a fan of B-Gata H-Kei (B-Cup Sex Maniac). If it weren't for the fact that I could watch an episode of this show for free online, there would be no way in hell that I would ever see it. If I were to see a DVD labeled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" in Best Buy, I most likely would have no interest in it (I'd also probably think it was a hentai). Even if I was interested, I doubt I'd want to pay $20 just to see what it's like. Even if I was willing to pay $20 to watch something I'd never even heard of before, I doubt I'd be willing to take a DVD titled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" to the counter.

    I'd miss out on a hilarious show that, surprisingly, contains much less fan service than a typical anime.

    This is very true. My wife loves B-Gata H-Kei and if we didn't have a way to "try it out for free" there is no way she would have ever watched it. Hopefully the notion of releasing anime subtitled a week after it launches in Japan will catch on. I don't mind waiting a week if I can watch a legal stream of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Having a way to preview or try Anime before I purchase it is great. I do not miss the old days where I bought a random VHS tape and hoped for the best.

    Now if they would only release the anime I want like K-On in the USA so that I could buy the blu-rays.
    Hentai Rape Explosion - Also known in the West as Checkers.

    I got Red Cliff Part 1 and 2 on Blu Ray for 25 dollars. Yeah.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DVD pricing has gone down a ton and if you wait long enough the set prices are in line with those of TV seasons, sometimes better.

    No one in the west is going to pay the amount that they are charging for first run stuff though, especially considering there is absolutely no tv market for the stuff anymore. When one night a week (actually really early morning) is the majority of the US anime shown on tv you know that you have issues, and even then they are showing multiple runs of the same episode of a very limited number of shows.

    If Funimation could get their network out to every single cable/sat package then they could probably afford to show more of their a list properties instead of the C and D list stuff that clogs their lineup. At least they have a good understanding of what sells and how to sell it, as they have some of the more competitive prices, do a good job on the shrinking dub market and frequently lower prices on their back catalog.

    It's still an extremely grim situation compared to a few years ago.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If Hulu would organize the search results a little better, and maybe add a registration feature so you can have customized queues and playlists (I noticed just the other day they have a button to say if the ads are relevant, so they're doing a least a little tailoring now) it'd be an awesome place to watch anime for free instead of just pretty good.

    I have a hulu account, I can queue videos, subscribe to shows, etc. You need to create one to see any adult content since plenty of stuff they put up has violence/profanity/nudity.

    Jars on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh shit, they do accounts now? Man, maybe I'm just blind. I'm admittedly terrible at finding anything on that site.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh shit, they do accounts now? Man, maybe I'm just blind. I'm admittedly terrible at finding anything on that site.

    It blew my mind when I started remembering to log in and it remembered where I left off on a show one time when my computer crashed.

    Slicer on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    They have had accounts since at least 2008, I remember needing to create one to watch it's always sunny in philadelphia.

    Jars on
  • WienkeWienke Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Throw my hat into the "you want HOW much for anime?" corner. I paid like 18-25 bucks a disc for the DBZ DVDs as they came out. That was probably one of the worst financial decisions I've ever made.

    Now I'm seeing 15 pages of anime on Netflix, does that kind of stuff make money for these companies? Because I certainly don't mind throwing some into the queue.

    Part of me wants to blame the hardcore anime fans for shaming casual types out of the market as well. I mean "I watch anime" doesn't give the best mental image for even college age types much less the public as a whole.

    I know my wife can't stand to be in the same room with me if I watch it mostly because of the shriekingly high-pitched girl voices. So maybe its a dubbing issue? You know, take it down a notch for western audiences.

    Wienke on
    PSN: TheWienke
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    One thing that might help is if they don't bother dubbing anime. The last anime DVDs I bought were the subtitled-only ones for Gurren Lagann. Each one had 8 episodes for 20 bucks; I consider that a good deal.

    Especially compared to other series, which charge 20 bucks for less than half the amount of content.

    It would also help if the legit subs were as good as the fansubs. Instead the karaoke is constantly missing from OP/EDs, and very few have any form of cultural notes (the only ones I remember were on Martian Successor Nadesico). And while they do get carried away occasionally, a lot of fansub fonts are more readable and eye-pleasing than the official Giant Yellow Arial. Maybe they should just hire the fansubbers.

    BubbaT on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    They have had accounts since at least 2008, I remember needing to create one to watch it's always sunny in philadelphia.

    same

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I gotta ask why they charge so much for the triple-pack episodes.


    All they had to do was hire a bunch of voice actors and do a bit of editing magic. It's not like they built the damn product from the ground up, this should be a (moderately) cheap set-up.

    Godfather on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    They have had accounts since at least 2008, I remember needing to create one to watch it's always sunny in philadelphia.

    same

    Yeah, it's probably just been forever since I tried to access anything there that required it that I didn't see it. That shall be remedied. yes Indeed.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    The big thing you have to remember is that there's no real need for DVD's in Japan. It's free on TV and, given how tech-happy the country is, on Julu (Japanese/Israeli Hulu), so the only reason to want a physical copy is to have it on a mantle, making it more like one of those stupid figurines than a copy of The Dark Knight. This means that Japanese companies are used to charging status symbol prices and would get angry at any US distributor who didn't want to, both because of the implication that Americans didn't think that their product was worth much and because of the worry that Japanese fans might try importing American copies.

    Scalfin on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    The big thing you have to remember is that there's no real need for DVD's in Japan. It's free on TV and, given how tech-happy the country is, on Julu (Japanese/Israeli Hulu), so the only reason to want a physical copy is to have it on a mantle, making it more like one of those stupid figurines than a copy of The Dark Knight. This means that Japanese companies are used to charging status symbol prices and would get angry at any US distributor who didn't want to, both because of the implication that Americans didn't think that their product was worth much and because of the worry that Japanese fans might try importing American copies.

    What the fuck is wrong with these people? They think they're hot shit...

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Godfather wrote: »
    I gotta ask why they charge so much for the triple-pack episodes.


    All they had to do was hire a bunch of voice actors and do a bit of editing magic. It's not like they built the damn product from the ground up, this should be a (moderately) cheap set-up.
    Licensing is not cheap. Several earlier posts already pointed out the premium that licensers have to pay Japanese studios to localize their works. Add those fees along with the voice acting and editing and you have some not-so-low prices to balance the costs.

    Scalfin wrote: »
    The big thing you have to remember is that there's no real need for DVD's in Japan. It's free on TV and, given how tech-happy the country is, on Julu (Japanese/Israeli Hulu), so the only reason to want a physical copy is to have it on a mantle, making it more like one of those stupid figurines than a copy of The Dark Knight. This means that Japanese companies are used to charging status symbol prices and would get angry at any US distributor who didn't want to, both because of the implication that Americans didn't think that their product was worth much and because of the worry that Japanese fans might try importing American copies.
    Actually there are some benefits to buying the DVD/Blu-Ray. The special editions usually come with collectables. And the DVD/Blu-Ray versions have touched-up remastered art.

    Claymore example:
    Before-
    claymore-TV.jpg

    After-
    claymore-DVD.jpg

    B:L on
    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    There are any number of issues that make the current business model unsustainable. Piracy (especially of actual US dvd releases) has very little to do with it.

    1) The prices are simply to high. It doesn't matter who's fault it is, the simple fact is that they are to high and if they expect to actually sell DVDs, they need to lower the prices. If that means having to play hardball with the Japanese companies, than the US distributors need to be prepared to do that if they want to be succesful.

    2) The market is bi-polar. The mainstream TV audience and the anime fan audience want two entirely different products. Distributors need to either pick one, or work to satisfy both.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Very Interesting on how the economics work.

    The J-Ville Money Crunchers are stubborn as HELL.

    To be honest - and im not saying people were at fault - but the J-Ville Money Crunchers only trusted 3 people during and after the whole boom and bust of the anime business.

    One's coming back.

    The other is almost bankrupt.

    The latter has passed away.

    They will never trust anybody else and thats why the business is broken.

    That means they have to change the way they do business.

    And while the business isn't moving away from animation per-se - its moving to a life style brand.

    That means animation has to be ONE PART of a life style brand.

    But that life style brand has to be more intellectual - clean - and artistically elite, while respecting the rest of the animation business and fanbase.

    That might mean name change.

    That might touching the mainstream but never being apart of it (for it broke them in the 60's and the early 80's and now in the oughts)

    That means cleaning out the gutter trash, the ghetto trash, the redneck trash out of the conventions and have days where you can cosplay (Halloween should be the big day and some smart guy should have a Fall Bash convention that has the Ultimate Cosplay day on Oct 31 and win prizes, million bucks, video game consoles and it should be somewhat a world wide event) but other cons should just have normal dresses, what not - sort of like PaX or Comic-Con and they should be limited to 3 or 4.

    Just ideas... thats all.

    Novid on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    One thing that might help is if they don't bother dubbing anime. The last anime DVDs I bought were the subtitled-only ones for Gurren Lagann. Each one had 8 episodes for 20 bucks; I consider that a good deal.

    Especially compared to other series, which charge 20 bucks for less than half the amount of content.

    It would also help if the legit subs were as good as the fansubs. Instead the karaoke is constantly missing from OP/EDs, and very few have any form of cultural notes (the only ones I remember were on Martian Successor Nadesico). And while they do get carried away occasionally, a lot of fansub fonts are more readable and eye-pleasing than the official Giant Yellow Arial. Maybe they should just hire the fansubbers.

    1. DVD fonts for subtitles are standard.

    2. Most fansubbers "custom fonts" are illegible.

    3. There have been a lot of changes in anime in the past ten years. MSN was done near the beginning of the decade. Most shows that really need cultural notes have them in the DVD liner or on a separate sub track.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    1. DVD fonts for subtitles are standard.

    And ugly as sin.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1. DVD fonts for subtitles are standard.

    And ugly as sin.

    As I understand it, this is far less of a limitation under blu-ray. Hope for the future!

    DragonPup on
    "I was there, I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor." -Cpt Garviel Loken

    Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    2. Most fansubbers "custom fonts" are illegible.

    I've always found the fonts Dattebayo used to be quite easy to read.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Also, I'm calling bullshit on them having no choice. Daywatch and Nightwatch did crazy ass shit with their subtitles.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DragonPup wrote: »
    They're instead downloading an unlicensed, free alternative. Probably because they don't have money or they don't think the product is worth paying for.

    All anime is licensed by the originally Japanese companies. Don't confuse 'not licensed by a US company' with 'no one owns the rights in the US'.
    Geneon closed!? Noooo!

    GeneonUSA is closed, Bandai US doesn't seem to be going very strong at all, ADV shuttered and became Section23/Sentai Filmworks, Viz just laid off 40% of their staff, and MediaBlasters laid off like 25% earlier in the year. Funimation rescued a lot of licenses from Geneon(including Last Exile, Black Lagoon, and FLCL).
    It should be noted that, from my understanding, ADV just rebranded for legal purposes. They still hold all the rights to most of their old titles (all of the ones except for a few that were relicensed to Funi) and they're still going to be releasing new shit. Basically, a contract fell through (I want to say with Sojitz?), but a good portion of the company was still in hostile hands. They needed to do this to protect themselves.
    DVD pricing has gone down a ton and if you wait long enough the set prices are in line with those of TV seasons, sometimes better.
    Yes, absolutely. The two things that work in your favor for getting a good deal are:
    1) Don't buy individual DVDs. Buy them together in the collector's box, or wait even longer for the season set re-releases (thinpacks, etc). You save even more money doing the latter, but you admittedly do lose out on alot of interesting additional content that is sometimes included in the full-size DVD packages.
    2) Preorder. Seriously.
    It's still an extremely grim situation compared to a few years ago.
    No argument here.
    B:L wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    The big thing you have to remember is that there's no real need for DVD's in Japan. It's free on TV and, given how tech-happy the country is, on Julu (Japanese/Israeli Hulu), so the only reason to want a physical copy is to have it on a mantle, making it more like one of those stupid figurines than a copy of The Dark Knight. This means that Japanese companies are used to charging status symbol prices and would get angry at any US distributor who didn't want to, both because of the implication that Americans didn't think that their product was worth much and because of the worry that Japanese fans might try importing American copies.
    Actually there are some benefits to buying the DVD/Blu-Ray. The special editions usually come with collectables. And the DVD/Blu-Ray versions have touched-up remastered art.

    Claymore example:
    Before-
    claymore-TV.jpg

    After-
    claymore-DVD.jpg
    Yes, a BIG advantage to purchasing DVDs is seeing the touched up scenes from the broadcast versions. Good studios actually do alot of work on cleaning things up.

    I've bought DVDs/blu-rays for most of the shows I've watched over the years that I enjoyed. (Some I'm still waiting for. fffffffffff StrikerS license). I don't really regret any of those purchases. (Well, okay, a couple where blu-ray releases came out soon after I had bought the DVDs, but what can you do? =X)

    Spectrum on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'm definitely in the "I would buy anime if anime was not priced stupidly" crowd.

    However, I have ethics, so I don't get it illegally, either. I'm really hoping that they spend more effort putting stuff out via hulu and funi and whatever else is out there, and build an advertising model off of that like a quasi-television channel. I greatly enjoy a minority of anime, but I also compare dollars to minutes of length whenever I shop for things to watch.

    Incenjucar on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I am always flabbergasted when IP types say "You are stealing and you should stop." as if that would solve anything.

    The important thing is not to get people to stop downloading, but to get people to start buying. Of course, that means instead of saying "THIEF! ARSEHOLE! JERK!" you have to say "Please buy more of the stuff you like from me and give me money so I can make more stuff."

    Apothe0sis on
    Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
    Es-annon NEVA 4GET
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I remember when the price was $25 for a VHS. Of two episodes.


    So today's anime shopper is more fortunate than not.

    I also agree that it's Japan's own fault. Anime used to be innovative and unique.

    Now every show seems like the same old crap, excluding the occasional Baccano.

    cj iwakura on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Also, I'm calling bullshit on them having no choice. Daywatch and Nightwatch did crazy ass shit with their subtitles.

    That's because newer DVDs get around the issue with the limited softsubbing capability of the DVD specification by having both clean and hardsubbed video.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    I am always flabbergasted when IP types say "You are stealing and you should stop." as if that would solve anything.

    The important thing is not to get people to stop downloading, but to get people to start buying. Of course, that means instead of saying "THIEF! ARSEHOLE! JERK!" you have to say "Please buy more of the stuff you like from me and give me money so I can make more stuff."

    And when they say fuck you, then what? Look at what happened with the Humble Bundle.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Unfortunately, the lifestyle thing really is the only way to get money out of people with the piracy urge. You need to offer them something physical or service-based, because a lot of people don't actually value the hard work or wishes of others on an ethical level. This, of course, means that selling the thing itself will be secondary to merchandising. Naruto Headbands for everyone. D: And some of them will shoplift, anyways.

    Incenjucar on
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The Humble Bundle worked out alright, really. $1 million in sales, even with a 25% piracy rate.

    Jintor on
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I really, really don't understand the line of thinking that treats anime as some sort of precious treasure. They expect you to pay huge prices, and try to make up for it giving you a pretty box, a few printed inserts, and a little extra content on the dvd. To me it's just another tv show. I'll watch it once, I might even watch it twice, but I'm not going to pay the same price for it that I would for like, a fine oil painting. I'm not going to display it proudly in my house and show it off to visitors. I just watch to watch the episode and be done with it. For that, downloading it online is just waaaaay more convenient.

    Pi-r8 on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Jintor wrote: »
    The Humble Bundle worked out alright, really. $1 million in sales, even with a 25% piracy rate.

    Presuming average numbers, that's up to a $333,000 in unjust enrichment. It would almost certainly be significantly less, but I don't know the specific number.

    --

    The treasure part is probably just a matter of them trying to make up for all the piracy.

    Incenjucar on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    I am always flabbergasted when IP types say "You are stealing and you should stop." as if that would solve anything.

    The important thing is not to get people to stop downloading, but to get people to start buying. Of course, that means instead of saying "THIEF! ARSEHOLE! JERK!" you have to say "Please buy more of the stuff you like from me and give me money so I can make more stuff."

    And when they say fuck you, then what? Look at what happened with the Humble Bundle.
    If they say fuck you then you're in no different a situation than you are, apparently, in at the current time?
    Like, even if you succeed in convincing people not to infringe, then what? That doesn't, in and of itself, provide any more money.
    On the other hand, even if people download the same amount of stuff, but are convinced to buy more by your wheedling tone, sophisticated appeals or proud exhortations/whatever else to buy more stuff, then you are in a better position than you were before.

    And the Humble Bundle? You mean "Turn out fairly successfully"?

    Apothe0sis on
    Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
    Es-annon NEVA 4GET
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    2. Most fansubbers "custom fonts" are illegible.

    I guess this varies by viewer.
    3. There have been a lot of changes in anime in the past ten years. MSN was done near the beginning of the decade. Most shows that really need cultural notes have them in the DVD liner or on a separate sub track.

    I mentioned MSN because it was the last one I've seen that had them. I've bought plenty since then that needed them but didn't have them. Azumanga Daioh, for instance. Apparently the original release DVDs had notes, but the thin-pack release didn't. If all that stuff's already done, why take it out for later releases?


    That's not to say fansubbing doesn't have its own set of problems. This guy has a lot of good points

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0&feature=related

    BubbaT on
  • RandomKitRandomKit Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Box-sets cost so much, I really just can't justify $100 for them. I've bought a couple fatpacks for $60 though.

    RandomKit on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    I am always flabbergasted when IP types say "You are stealing and you should stop." as if that would solve anything.

    The important thing is not to get people to stop downloading, but to get people to start buying. Of course, that means instead of saying "THIEF! ARSEHOLE! JERK!" you have to say "Please buy more of the stuff you like from me and give me money so I can make more stuff."

    And when they say fuck you, then what? Look at what happened with the Humble Bundle.
    If they say fuck you then you're in no different a situation than you are, apparently, in at the current time?
    Like, even if you succeed in convincing people not to infringe, then what? That doesn't, in and of itself, provide any more money.
    On the other hand, even if people download the same amount of stuff, but are convinced to buy more by your wheedling tone, sophisticated appeals or proud exhortations/whatever else to buy more stuff, then you are in a better position than you were before.

    And the Humble Bundle? You mean "Turn out fairly successfully"?

    irresponsibility03.jpg

    Google "free rider problem" sometime. Ironically, pirates often enforce anti-free rider provisions in their own communities while mocking the idea in the larger community. And it's been proven that torrents don't work without protecting against the free rider problem.

    And the Humble Bundle showed that rationalizations often spouted by pirates to "justify" their actions were exactly that - even after removing everything the pirates claimed pushed them to pirate, a full quarter continued to do so.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So the answer is to increase the number of people buying your stuff via promotions and whatnot, rather than to try and make pirates suffer, because that's never going to work.

    I think people said it before, but people want to try before they buy - they want to see anime before they commit ridiculous amounts of money for it (and they would rather not commit ridiculous amounts of money for it if they could, but that's a seperate issue). Previously the only model that worked was to dub shows and show them on television channels, because of the dominant broadcast model of media consumption. But the internet has changed this - streaming video means widespread availibility, especially in the US of A. You don't even need to pause because instead of having to cater to the whole, you can cater for specific demographics - throw the subs up the day anime is released in Japan for the hardcore guys, and just dub the stuff that's more likely to appeal to a wider audience later. Even better, you can track unique viewers way better on the internet than you can via a broadcast model. And if people like the shows, like the stuff that's being shown, they'll go out and buy the DVDs - especially if you cram them with extras, bundle them with soundtrack CDs or posters, something that creates additional value compared to what you're distributing for free on the internet. Go low-res on the 'net, show the TV broadcast version from Japan, whatever. The Western Anime industry needs to create demand for the products it sells.

    I honestly think that at the end of the day people would prefer to pay money for good quality products, provided that they can be provided with a maximum of convenience and a minimum of hassle.

    /edit so basically what blkmage said on the first page, then

    Jintor on
  • BiopticBioptic Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    One thing that might help is if they don't bother dubbing anime. The last anime DVDs I bought were the subtitled-only ones for Gurren Lagann. Each one had 8 episodes for 20 bucks; I consider that a good deal.

    Especially compared to other series, which charge 20 bucks for less than half the amount of content.

    It would also help if the legit subs were as good as the fansubs. Instead the karaoke is constantly missing from OP/EDs, and very few have any form of cultural notes (the only ones I remember were on Martian Successor Nadesico). And while they do get carried away occasionally, a lot of fansub fonts are more readable and eye-pleasing than the official Giant Yellow Arial. Maybe they should just hire the fansubbers.

    1. DVD fonts for subtitles are standard.

    2. Most fansubbers "custom fonts" are illegible.

    3. There have been a lot of changes in anime in the past ten years. MSN was done near the beginning of the decade. Most shows that really need cultural notes have them in the DVD liner or on a separate sub track.

    Custom font or no, any given western TV series you could mention has perfectly eye-pleasing white, smooth subtitles. And whilst plenty of modern anime series have adopted this standard, enough haven't that it's still a legitimate aesthetic problem.

    My main issue with anime DVD subtitles is the quality - they can be really, really poor at conveying mood or even just natural English. I thought getting 26 episodes of Ouran for £15 was a bargain, until I realised that a series that I already knew was funny from the fansub was genuinely struggling to convey it with the DVD subtitles. I do wonder if they're legitimately treated as an afterthought in some cases - shopped out to some translation service at the last second after the dub's been recorded.

    Bioptic on
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