They're not too much on the money with October. I never used her quake spell, prefering to use electric, or dark. Of course, if you've got Umi as a mage, then I suppose it makes sense not giving october the electric attacks, but I never did, as Umi makes a ridiculously good...I guess paladin, since she still my secondary healer behind dacre.
I guess I never really used quake for the fact that it was a combo finisher, and I avoid those like the plague, because I like me the combo breaker healing spells. I guess if you're the type to use lots of combos and combo finishers, it's a good idea, but personally, eeh.
Bleh. I figured something was off. I'm reluctant to start playing CSTW because it's going to be easy to screw up a party member since you wouldn't know what to build on whom until you're through the first playthrough, and that's assuming you didn't mess up so much that you can't get through the game or beat the secret boss. I wanted to get it right the first time since I'm doing 1 playthrough, then Angels, and then I need to get though the rest of my backlog, I'm already into Ch 4 of Dead Space 2.
....Frankly it isn't that serious. I went through just fine, beat the optional boss and everything. No guides, no secret voodoo. Just choose a stat and run with it. Give Umi the strikes, give Cthulhu the multi-hit tentacles/berserk, give Sharpe the multi-hit and holy strike, do whatever with whoever else. Profit.
Yeah. All the strategies and character builds we're discussing, don't REALLY mean much in the end. Like I said before, I actually had Umi as a MAGE for half the game, then switched her over to a paladin, and she STILL kicked ass, so it's kinda hard to screw up.
Well it's just something I like to do in some RPG's. I like to plan things out far enough ahead that I can enjoy the story and gameplay. In BoD I had a few spots which were rough because of the way MP regen was at the lower levels. I'd like to try and build things as efficiently as I can to avoid going dry on magic, and maybe cut down on some of the grind (not all of it, I'm sure I'll need to do some). Since there's even more party members this time around, getting it relatively "right" counts a bit more to me this time around. I wouldn't say I'm a min/maxer, but I do like to design builds that are traditional or unorthodox that are crazy powerful. I still have fond memories of a FFVII materia build that would automatically cast it's way through whole boss fights after a few attacks, just for the novelty of it.
Yes, well, there just isn't that much variety for most chars. Just choose a stat and pick everything that benefits that stat. Exception would be grabbing flood for Umi and Void for October so you can use them to steamroll trash mobs more efficiently. Since all target spells arent incredibly common those two are useful.
That's good to know, that's the sort of stuff I've been trying to research. As it is, I could find a walkthrough for the quest parts, but practically nothing about leveling, save for that one post that seems to be very hit or miss.
Who wouldn't? Massive statbuffs FTFW. 40k brawn rush or whatever its called? Yesplz.
Hmm. I'll have to give it a shot sometime. Only problem is, I no longer have a machine that can play CStW. I wonder if that is worth the lack of HIS doing damage, because it would definitely cost the combo count.
Who wouldn't? Massive statbuffs FTFW. 40k brawn rush or whatever its called? Yesplz.
Hmm. I'll have to give it a shot sometime. Only problem is, I no longer have a machine that can play CStW. I wonder if that is worth the lack of HIS doing damage, because it would definitely cost the combo count.
He eventually gets holy, which makes him able to do on par damage with pretty much anything anyone else can dish out.
Finally beat Breath of Death. Game is pretty damn hard around when you recruit the final party member but evens out after that dungeon. Going to get to Cthulu after a bit of a break. Might be a total sissy and play it on easy.
I finished the main game, but I'm not sure I found/beat the optional boss everyone else mentioned. For now I've moved on to Cthulhu's Angels mode. Is all the developer commentary the same as the main game?
I finished the main game, but I'm not sure I found/beat the optional boss everyone else mentioned. For now I've moved on to Cthulhu's Angels mode. Is all the developer commentary the same as the main game?
The boss fight
has 4 people
, you'd kind of know it when you find it. Also path leading up to boss has some of the best music in the game. Total BoF2 guitar vibe there.
I completed Breath of Death earlier today, including the extra boss. Like Corpekata, the dungeon after completing the full party was the most difficult portion, and I started rolling through things by the time I got to the finale. I was actually surprised that the bonus area wasn't more arduous - but then again, after the party reaches the end of the branching bonuses, there's really little that can stand in their way. But I did find myself getting a bit burned out on the game toward the end, so I'll probably take a bit of a break before tackling Cthulhu Saves the World. Still a great game, though.
So, having completed Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu (swear to god I will misspell that as "Cthulu" somewhere in this wall of text) Saves the World, I feel compelled to offer an honest critique of both games, though predominantly CSTW-- it is, after all, the main event. But before I get started, I want to point out that though I'm going to be wearing my Serious Critic hat for most of my review, understand that, if you'll pardon my quoting RPG World, you can tell I'm their biggest fan because I hate it most. That is to say, I enjoyed both games thoroughly and they got me thinking, and this is the result.
Furthermore, be ye forewarned, thou who art not Zeboyd employees, that I'll be speaking freely as regards spoilers. You get the courtesy of a spoiler tag, but everything start to finish is fair game after that.
My reflex when posting anything critical is to start with the positive. This shouldn't really be a point in its favor, but as a programmer I know it's tougher to pull off than it looks: the game is well-made technically speaking; I observed only one or two hiccups (such as slow loading when transitioning from battles to the map early in the game; this problem disappeared entirely after it first occurred), both of which I can attribute more to my computer than anything else. Bugs are probably the leading fun-killer in gaming right after griefers, so not having any that stand out is a feat unto itself.
There's more here to praise than "you didn't fuck up", of course. From a gameplay standpoint, you've managed to hit most of the big JRPG frustration points. I'm sure just about anyone who's played an 8- or 16-bit RPG remembers some point where they forgot to save for a long time, decided to head back to town, and then out of nowhere comes a set of mobs that use nothing but their massive hit-everyone attack while the enemy mage's instant-death spell seems to have recoded itself to hit 100% of the time. Blam, all that leveling gone. The 1-Ups help with that; if something wipes you out, you can retry basically without penalty; the difficulty curve, at least on Normal (I'm taking you at your word that it is, indeed, the intended difficulty), is such that you'll rarely get beyond your depth. These aren't radically innovative concepts these days; most JRPGs now offer gentler difficulties than those of yesteryear, and several supply some kind of continuation mechanism (I'm thinking of The World Ends With You and Bowser's Inside Story, specifically). You effectively answer the question of random battles with the hard cap on the number of forced battles that can occur per area, which has been discussed extensively elsewhere and does not bear repeating here. Likewise, the effect of the combo system (particularly interrupting combos with heal moves) and the growth of enemy stats over time in any given battle helps enormously to avoid the "long haul" style of boss battle where the outcome is all but certain, yet you're forced to grind through 1,000,000 HP while periodically healing yourself for no reason.
In terms of traditional aspects of JRPG design, though, I have to call out the dungeon designs. With the exception of the conveyor belts in the factory in Innsmouth, the laser barriers on Paws's ship, and the water levels in the water temple, they are typically the dungeon equivalent of gibberish. Paths squiggle about aimlessly, which was enough of an issue in BOD7, but made worse by the new multi-layer system in CSTW. I've got a reasonably good sense of direction, so I didn't spend too much time lost, but I there was very little sense of where I should be going. There were the gateway lanterns to mark the exits, yes, but even those sort of backfired: if I spotted one, I typically deliberately went the other way because I knew there were treasure chests I'd missed, having spotted them from some curve in the path on an entirely different track. By the end of the game I'd lost all hope of actually being able to navigate them and simply abandoned whatever treasure was not readily available, in large part because my stats and abilities were carrying the weight in any case. The problem is that I rarely felt challenged by the dungeon layouts in the way that I was by, say, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. That game's dungeons were an act of war against the player by the designer; you felt you had to get through them because damned if you were going to let the bastard who put them together win. CSTW's empty corridors just felt draining.
As for the writing, I felt you guys were at your best in the narration. Any of the game's numerous observational comedy moments were a joy to behold-- I laughed more in Miskatonia University than in the entirety of BOD7. The increasingly bizarre and improbable contents of peoples' drawers was hilarious as well; I did a double-take at the one that was full of water. ... how?! But as much as narrational humor was your greatest strength, dialog was a crippling weakness. I'm having a hard time coming up with exactly how I'd go about fixing it (which should be a necessary element of all criticism), but any time the characters start talking to each other I feel like I'm reading something that came out of a couple kids dicking around with RPG Maker. The thing that separates good satire from bad satire is that good satire not only lampoons its target, but outperforms it in its original capacity. That is, not only should you point out the bad writing apparently inherent to the JRPG genre, but do so while having better writing than the norm. And I really don't get that feeling from the dialog in CSTW. ... though I can point out at least one aspect, specifically, that bothers me. None of the characters have their own "voice". The content changes-- Cthulhu's egocentric, Umi, like Sara to Dem, exists solely to remain snugly attached to Cthulhu's unspeakable tentacular dick*, Dacre forgets things... but they all speak the same way. It's subtle, but it drives me up the wall.
The issue of characterization extends to the characters' combat roles, as well. One of my biggest frustrations with the JRPG genre is the tendency to divorce a character's combat abilities from their role in the narrative. Case in point from CSTW: the insanity mechanic. This had a lot of potential, and unfortunately I got very little mileage out of it for a couple reasons. First, the effect was too subtle to be noticeable, except when it was harming you. Most trash mobs die in the second or third round anyway; there's almost no point in increasing the damage you do to them when the second attack kills them anyway. And in the cases where it would help, you wind up doing yourself more harm than good by making the enemy insane-- I got a rather smarting demonstration of that when I insaned all the rival heroes at once just to see what would happen. Even if there is a larger effect than I'm giving it credit for, it was easy to miss. Ideally, you wouldn't be able to say that about the one major change in the combat engine between a game and its sequel! On the same note, for all that he is played up as the harbinger of insanity, Cthulhu is far more a Dem-style jack-of-all-trades fighter-type than a character who trades on driving people insane. Leaving aside the Curse Sword, Cthulhu is hardly even the game's best insanity inflicter: Umi's Siren's Call not only causes insanity, but stuns the target (even bosses!) for an extra opportunity to inflict that extra damage, October gets Cthulhu's better insanity spells, and Paws can insane an entire group at once with a tech (or reverse it, in case you need to heal up). I know it sounds petty, but I'm sick of seeing good character premises thrown away on "safe" combat engine design-- the hero shall always be the sturdy guy with mixed attack styles.
On the same bent, the three "extra" party members suffer from the late-comer problem of build-your-own-party game design: none of them have anywhere near the personality or the utility of the people you get initially. The one reason I can see to use Paws over anyone else (particularly Umi) is Regen-All, which helps take the edge off of bosses with multiple-hit attacks. However, he's outclassed in that respect by Dacre, who, granted, has a viable combat role as a buffer in boss battles, lacks the utility required to be useful in random battles and is completely bereft of any real personality. Ember, too, is something of a joke character; all the Strength points in the world are irrelevant when the other characters have attacks that can hit four or five times in succession. My party for the entire game was Cthulhu, Umi, Sharpe, and October, and besides swapping in Dacre for a boss or two I never really felt any pressure to shift. The others were just too good in their respective niches.
Finally, a word on the combat design. You've done a lot to avoid the big problem of making combat something other than a war of attrition. Not having to manually go and heal up all my characters after a battle is a breath of fresh air, and the ever-growing enemies and major loss of damage if you choose to heal over attacking with your combo means you have to fight aggressively rather than just stick it out. However, that still fails to address my number one complaint with just about every JRPG I've ever played: I get very little sense of rapport with the enemy. In an action game like Super Mario Brothers, it's fine if the enemy has a dedicated, predictable attack pattern; that challenges the player's dexterity enough to give the poor AI a pass. But with an RPG, it's absolutely vital to have an intelligent enemy. Part of what makes player-versus-player battling so compelling in Pokemon is the maze of mind-games you have to play with your enemy. You have to plan around their likely action, and their likely attempts to predict your action. Furthermore, every action you choose will affect what they're able to do on their next turn. I always say that chess is the ideal any good RPG engine should strive for; in particular, what I'm referring to here is the interaction between players from each turn. When I move my piece, you gain and lose options, and when you move your piece, I gain and lose options. I move with the intent of affecting what you're able to to, with the goal of pinning your king. You do the same to me. JRPGs rarely present anything approaching that level of intelligence from the enemy, and CSTW is no exception. By and large, combat in CSTW is a game of doing as much as damage as possible as the enemies do the same. Even with the anti-stall measures in place, CSTW is still a game of slapping enemies with progressively larger numbers-- the most intelligence the game ever asked me to exhibit was blinding large groups, possibly casting Seal on enemies I knew were going to use their nastiest moves (Kaboomsters come to mind), and that's it. Everything else was just attack, attack, attack.
The way I see it, the insanity mechanic is a missed opportunity to add some strategy to a genre that's otherwise about enduring a string of random misfortune by muddling through until your numbers are big enough. Please excuse me as I go off into a bit of armchair game design... imagine if there were at least a basic AI consisting of known strong behaviors for the engine-- lead with your debuffs instead of using them on turn three, focus fire on the healer, use defense boosts on your healer, buff up the guy with the best attack power-- so that the player was forced to intelligently guard against incoming damage. One great way to do this is to disable the enemy's AI, by using Cthulhu's power to render his victims insane. Insane enemies revert to primitive pick-whatever-the-hell AI, giving you some breathing room against statistically stronger opponents. But, of course, you can't insane everything at once; you'll have to decide whether it's better to send the attackers spinning off onto random targets or make the support units less predictable. And, furthermore, the "insanity" condition removes all limiters and preconditions on special moves-- an insane character can use the desperation move that they can normally only use while under 25% HP at any time... if the dice come up right. Do you take your chances with insane enemies, or the predictable but overpowering normal AI? Some abilities would make your own party insane, too, if you're willing to put up with chaotic move choices in exchange for the ability to use your best powers under any circumstances.
Obviously, that's a bit much to ask, especially since you're the ones who made this game, not me. But it frustrates me to see a game that's built on calling back to the JRPGs of old get mired in the exact same flaws that continue to show up even in today's games. Indie game developers have the most power to play with genres and force them to evolve. You've got an excellent base to build off of; put some thought into what expectations and tropes you can turn on their head and I'm sure you'll continue to knock it out of the park. And, of course, none of this is to say that I'm disappointed with the games overall. I did, after all, play both games to the end. Publishing on Steam is a huge undertaking for an indie game studio, and that you've made it as far as you have speaks to an ability to make a quality product. But I feel like you could have gone further even than you did.
* Forgive me. Context-appropriate opportunities to use the phrase "unspeakable tentacular dick" are so rare that I had to pounce on this one before it got away.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
It seems to me that a lot of your complaints are "This is a JRPG". I also think you're a bit wrong in your assertion of the usefulness of the different party members.
As I've been saying in this thread, you actually totally missed out on Paws' primary purpose. He is not meant to be your healer. With enough + hits and with the strength version of unstable form, he can do the most damage out of any of your party members using only his regular attacks. He is also the fastest, allowing him to destroy enemies before they have a chance to retaliate, or to get a critical last hit in before getting killed.
I don't really see what's wrong with having characters like Dacre who are useful only in certain situations. The only one I'll agree with is that Ember is useless.
I don't understand your complaint about Cthulhu being well rounded. It seems you are deep into nit-picking territory with this one. Their game is certainly not an inferior product because the main character is well-rounded.
The insanity mechanic is more useful than you give it credit for. A party consisting of Paws and characters with area of effect attacks can very often end the battle in one round. You argue that this is just one round less, at which point I have to ask you why you even bring this up. If you're trying to play optimally, one round still matters. If you play without making heavy use of insanity, you are gimping yourself, as it significantly increases the damage you do. I don't see how you could claim it doesn't make a difference. For me, it was very often what allowed me to one-shot enemies.
I don't think the game would have been improved by having the characters... speak differently. What, did you want to have Dacre speak in Thou's and Thy's? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.
JRPGs are all about stacking buffs and dealing massive amounts of damage. You can't really make the game "hard to predict" as you want it to be unless you make every single trash mob capable of easily ending your party. But then, that totally changes the focus of the game. You can't have nearly as many fights, for example, as it would just be way too draining mentally (not to say too long) to go through a dungeon. JRPGs are what they are, I don't see how the formula can be improved that much more, and I don't see why a throwback game like this one should try to change the formula to such a degree. If you want a chess-like experience, a Blizzard RTS or a fighting game is what you're looking for. Very few games in the industry have this quality, so it's a lot to ask out of an indie title.
Anyway, that's my criticism of your criticism. I think you're being a bit hard on them; most of these seem to be nitpicks or based more on your personal playstyle, although you do make a few good points (the end dungeons are hard to navigate, that's for sure).
Paws was my kitty for normal encounters. Boss fights I swapped out for Dacre (Dudes. His stat buffs are NUTS.). Umi went hybrid (to Flood kill normal encounters and use strikes on bosses). October went electric (and quake is good aoe for normal encounters if she's the slowest in the party).
Fun game, only challenging fight was the optional 4 person encounter.
I'm a total jackass for not finishing BoD:VII, but a certain "spectator" that I share my life with doesn't seem to approve of the whole 8-bit theme. She also hates anime.
You know what would be a kickass platform for this? iOS.
I'm a total jackass for not finishing BoD:VII, but a certain "spectator" that I share my life with doesn't seem to approve of the whole 8-bit theme. She also hates anime.
It seems to me that a lot of your complaints are "This is a JRPG". I also think you're a bit wrong in your assertion of the usefulness of the different party members.
I will cop to having something of a blind spot as regards party member selection. As for that first point, though...
Pretty much any time I see the genre criticized, someone winds up saying something to the effect of "The turn-based RPG [is/should be] dead; the genre is fully explored." What I'm saying here is that, well, no it bloody well isn't. There is loads more we can do with the notion of "a variable number of independent characters act in a semi-unpredictable order according to directions given before the beginning of each of a series of turns in order to reduce all opposing enemies' health scores to 0" and we don't. Imagine, if you will, a world where every single platform game featured a character who can damage his enemies only by landing directly on top of them. No Sonic the Hedgehog attacking from all angles while he's spinning. No Contra where you have a gun and need to kill things with your own projectiles. No Metroid or Castlevania where you gain new powers and explore a large, nonlinear map. Everything is left-to-right and hop-on-their head. This is about how I feel about JRPGs in this particular style. CSTW is not just a JRPG in terms of gameplay, but a perfectly safe JRPG. It bothers me.
... which, of course, was the point of the disclaimer. Philosophical objections aside, it's enjoyable.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Apparently I spoke too soon. Went to the ice Cave, got owned. Some random encounters in the volcano area, got owned. What level should I be for the Ice Cave?
Apparently I spoke too soon. Went to the ice Cave, got owned. Some random encounters in the volcano area, got owned. What level should I be for the Ice Cave?
I didn't have much trouble with either location (though the volcano was a pretty grueling marathon). Bring October for the ice cave; Fireball, especially the branch that hits all enemies, will knock out most everything in a round or two. For the Volcano, bring Paws; his ice techs get bonus damage against nearly everything.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Apparently I spoke too soon. Went to the ice Cave, got owned. Some random encounters in the volcano area, got owned. What level should I be for the Ice Cave?
I didn't have much trouble with either location (though the volcano was a pretty grueling marathon). Bring October for the ice cave; Fireball, especially the branch that hits all enemies, will knock out most everything in a round or two. For the Volcano, bring Paws; his ice techs get bonus damage against nearly everything.
I may not have leveled up enough for October's all enemies upgrade, I'm lv 25 on everyone right now.
EDIT I think I missed the all enemies option around 18 or 19 according to a google spreadsheet someone made..
I'm in the home stretch, just R'lyeh, Soulcaster Bosses, and Cave of Destiny are left. Although I'm only lv 39 or so. Tried fighting the Soul caster, and got wiped in 2 turns. =D
..Man I just realized I saved over my end game file while doing angel mode. That makes me sad. Curse you defaulting to top save file when hitting save, curse you!
..Man I just realized I saved over my end game file while doing angel mode. That makes me sad. Curse you defaulting to top save file when hitting save, curse you!
Oh god. I did the same thing. I was PISSED, since I hadn't yet done the OTHER optional boss.
Should really give Dacre a shot. I just got Ember but I've been rolling with Cthulhu/Sharpe/October/Paws ever since I got Paws. Paws/October wreck up the random battles and a charged up Cthulhu/Sharpe unite attack destroys bosses.
Just as a note, the ghost forest map apparently killed my crappy video card. Rest of the game runs fine but I unfortunately had to forgo my usually treasure delving and got out of there as soon as possible to save my sanity.
I have saved the world....and kicked the asses of the Soulcasters....and the other secret boss's bony ass as well. That was fun.
Slash and Rainbow, those were a couple of great games. Can't wait to see what you come up with next. I even have a suggestion for the next one after your current project.
After playing four Arkham Horror games in a row, I finally got around to picking up the double pack from Steam. Finding it a bit tough, even on normal.
That is very cool news. Wonder what the division of labor will be? Jerry seemed pretty burnt out on all the writing for the objects you can examine, etc. Mike's art style or the style of their other games? So much curiosity abounds!
Posts
I guess I never really used quake for the fact that it was a combo finisher, and I avoid those like the plague, because I like me the combo breaker healing spells. I guess if you're the type to use lots of combos and combo finishers, it's a good idea, but personally, eeh.
More RPGs need an auto button.
Hmm. I'll have to give it a shot sometime. Only problem is, I no longer have a machine that can play CStW. I wonder if that is worth the lack of HIS doing damage, because it would definitely cost the combo count.
The boss fight
Furthermore, be ye forewarned, thou who art not Zeboyd employees, that I'll be speaking freely as regards spoilers. You get the courtesy of a spoiler tag, but everything start to finish is fair game after that.
There's more here to praise than "you didn't fuck up", of course. From a gameplay standpoint, you've managed to hit most of the big JRPG frustration points. I'm sure just about anyone who's played an 8- or 16-bit RPG remembers some point where they forgot to save for a long time, decided to head back to town, and then out of nowhere comes a set of mobs that use nothing but their massive hit-everyone attack while the enemy mage's instant-death spell seems to have recoded itself to hit 100% of the time. Blam, all that leveling gone. The 1-Ups help with that; if something wipes you out, you can retry basically without penalty; the difficulty curve, at least on Normal (I'm taking you at your word that it is, indeed, the intended difficulty), is such that you'll rarely get beyond your depth. These aren't radically innovative concepts these days; most JRPGs now offer gentler difficulties than those of yesteryear, and several supply some kind of continuation mechanism (I'm thinking of The World Ends With You and Bowser's Inside Story, specifically). You effectively answer the question of random battles with the hard cap on the number of forced battles that can occur per area, which has been discussed extensively elsewhere and does not bear repeating here. Likewise, the effect of the combo system (particularly interrupting combos with heal moves) and the growth of enemy stats over time in any given battle helps enormously to avoid the "long haul" style of boss battle where the outcome is all but certain, yet you're forced to grind through 1,000,000 HP while periodically healing yourself for no reason.
In terms of traditional aspects of JRPG design, though, I have to call out the dungeon designs. With the exception of the conveyor belts in the factory in Innsmouth, the laser barriers on Paws's ship, and the water levels in the water temple, they are typically the dungeon equivalent of gibberish. Paths squiggle about aimlessly, which was enough of an issue in BOD7, but made worse by the new multi-layer system in CSTW. I've got a reasonably good sense of direction, so I didn't spend too much time lost, but I there was very little sense of where I should be going. There were the gateway lanterns to mark the exits, yes, but even those sort of backfired: if I spotted one, I typically deliberately went the other way because I knew there were treasure chests I'd missed, having spotted them from some curve in the path on an entirely different track. By the end of the game I'd lost all hope of actually being able to navigate them and simply abandoned whatever treasure was not readily available, in large part because my stats and abilities were carrying the weight in any case. The problem is that I rarely felt challenged by the dungeon layouts in the way that I was by, say, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. That game's dungeons were an act of war against the player by the designer; you felt you had to get through them because damned if you were going to let the bastard who put them together win. CSTW's empty corridors just felt draining.
As for the writing, I felt you guys were at your best in the narration. Any of the game's numerous observational comedy moments were a joy to behold-- I laughed more in Miskatonia University than in the entirety of BOD7. The increasingly bizarre and improbable contents of peoples' drawers was hilarious as well; I did a double-take at the one that was full of water. ... how?! But as much as narrational humor was your greatest strength, dialog was a crippling weakness. I'm having a hard time coming up with exactly how I'd go about fixing it (which should be a necessary element of all criticism), but any time the characters start talking to each other I feel like I'm reading something that came out of a couple kids dicking around with RPG Maker. The thing that separates good satire from bad satire is that good satire not only lampoons its target, but outperforms it in its original capacity. That is, not only should you point out the bad writing apparently inherent to the JRPG genre, but do so while having better writing than the norm. And I really don't get that feeling from the dialog in CSTW. ... though I can point out at least one aspect, specifically, that bothers me. None of the characters have their own "voice". The content changes-- Cthulhu's egocentric, Umi, like Sara to Dem, exists solely to remain snugly attached to Cthulhu's unspeakable tentacular dick*, Dacre forgets things... but they all speak the same way. It's subtle, but it drives me up the wall.
The issue of characterization extends to the characters' combat roles, as well. One of my biggest frustrations with the JRPG genre is the tendency to divorce a character's combat abilities from their role in the narrative. Case in point from CSTW: the insanity mechanic. This had a lot of potential, and unfortunately I got very little mileage out of it for a couple reasons. First, the effect was too subtle to be noticeable, except when it was harming you. Most trash mobs die in the second or third round anyway; there's almost no point in increasing the damage you do to them when the second attack kills them anyway. And in the cases where it would help, you wind up doing yourself more harm than good by making the enemy insane-- I got a rather smarting demonstration of that when I insaned all the rival heroes at once just to see what would happen. Even if there is a larger effect than I'm giving it credit for, it was easy to miss. Ideally, you wouldn't be able to say that about the one major change in the combat engine between a game and its sequel! On the same note, for all that he is played up as the harbinger of insanity, Cthulhu is far more a Dem-style jack-of-all-trades fighter-type than a character who trades on driving people insane. Leaving aside the Curse Sword, Cthulhu is hardly even the game's best insanity inflicter: Umi's Siren's Call not only causes insanity, but stuns the target (even bosses!) for an extra opportunity to inflict that extra damage, October gets Cthulhu's better insanity spells, and Paws can insane an entire group at once with a tech (or reverse it, in case you need to heal up). I know it sounds petty, but I'm sick of seeing good character premises thrown away on "safe" combat engine design-- the hero shall always be the sturdy guy with mixed attack styles.
On the same bent, the three "extra" party members suffer from the late-comer problem of build-your-own-party game design: none of them have anywhere near the personality or the utility of the people you get initially. The one reason I can see to use Paws over anyone else (particularly Umi) is Regen-All, which helps take the edge off of bosses with multiple-hit attacks. However, he's outclassed in that respect by Dacre, who, granted, has a viable combat role as a buffer in boss battles, lacks the utility required to be useful in random battles and is completely bereft of any real personality. Ember, too, is something of a joke character; all the Strength points in the world are irrelevant when the other characters have attacks that can hit four or five times in succession. My party for the entire game was Cthulhu, Umi, Sharpe, and October, and besides swapping in Dacre for a boss or two I never really felt any pressure to shift. The others were just too good in their respective niches.
Finally, a word on the combat design. You've done a lot to avoid the big problem of making combat something other than a war of attrition. Not having to manually go and heal up all my characters after a battle is a breath of fresh air, and the ever-growing enemies and major loss of damage if you choose to heal over attacking with your combo means you have to fight aggressively rather than just stick it out. However, that still fails to address my number one complaint with just about every JRPG I've ever played: I get very little sense of rapport with the enemy. In an action game like Super Mario Brothers, it's fine if the enemy has a dedicated, predictable attack pattern; that challenges the player's dexterity enough to give the poor AI a pass. But with an RPG, it's absolutely vital to have an intelligent enemy. Part of what makes player-versus-player battling so compelling in Pokemon is the maze of mind-games you have to play with your enemy. You have to plan around their likely action, and their likely attempts to predict your action. Furthermore, every action you choose will affect what they're able to do on their next turn. I always say that chess is the ideal any good RPG engine should strive for; in particular, what I'm referring to here is the interaction between players from each turn. When I move my piece, you gain and lose options, and when you move your piece, I gain and lose options. I move with the intent of affecting what you're able to to, with the goal of pinning your king. You do the same to me. JRPGs rarely present anything approaching that level of intelligence from the enemy, and CSTW is no exception. By and large, combat in CSTW is a game of doing as much as damage as possible as the enemies do the same. Even with the anti-stall measures in place, CSTW is still a game of slapping enemies with progressively larger numbers-- the most intelligence the game ever asked me to exhibit was blinding large groups, possibly casting Seal on enemies I knew were going to use their nastiest moves (Kaboomsters come to mind), and that's it. Everything else was just attack, attack, attack.
The way I see it, the insanity mechanic is a missed opportunity to add some strategy to a genre that's otherwise about enduring a string of random misfortune by muddling through until your numbers are big enough. Please excuse me as I go off into a bit of armchair game design... imagine if there were at least a basic AI consisting of known strong behaviors for the engine-- lead with your debuffs instead of using them on turn three, focus fire on the healer, use defense boosts on your healer, buff up the guy with the best attack power-- so that the player was forced to intelligently guard against incoming damage. One great way to do this is to disable the enemy's AI, by using Cthulhu's power to render his victims insane. Insane enemies revert to primitive pick-whatever-the-hell AI, giving you some breathing room against statistically stronger opponents. But, of course, you can't insane everything at once; you'll have to decide whether it's better to send the attackers spinning off onto random targets or make the support units less predictable. And, furthermore, the "insanity" condition removes all limiters and preconditions on special moves-- an insane character can use the desperation move that they can normally only use while under 25% HP at any time... if the dice come up right. Do you take your chances with insane enemies, or the predictable but overpowering normal AI? Some abilities would make your own party insane, too, if you're willing to put up with chaotic move choices in exchange for the ability to use your best powers under any circumstances.
Obviously, that's a bit much to ask, especially since you're the ones who made this game, not me. But it frustrates me to see a game that's built on calling back to the JRPGs of old get mired in the exact same flaws that continue to show up even in today's games. Indie game developers have the most power to play with genres and force them to evolve. You've got an excellent base to build off of; put some thought into what expectations and tropes you can turn on their head and I'm sure you'll continue to knock it out of the park. And, of course, none of this is to say that I'm disappointed with the games overall. I did, after all, play both games to the end. Publishing on Steam is a huge undertaking for an indie game studio, and that you've made it as far as you have speaks to an ability to make a quality product. But I feel like you could have gone further even than you did.
* Forgive me. Context-appropriate opportunities to use the phrase "unspeakable tentacular dick" are so rare that I had to pounce on this one before it got away.
I don't really see what's wrong with having characters like Dacre who are useful only in certain situations. The only one I'll agree with is that Ember is useless.
I don't understand your complaint about Cthulhu being well rounded. It seems you are deep into nit-picking territory with this one. Their game is certainly not an inferior product because the main character is well-rounded.
The insanity mechanic is more useful than you give it credit for. A party consisting of Paws and characters with area of effect attacks can very often end the battle in one round. You argue that this is just one round less, at which point I have to ask you why you even bring this up. If you're trying to play optimally, one round still matters. If you play without making heavy use of insanity, you are gimping yourself, as it significantly increases the damage you do. I don't see how you could claim it doesn't make a difference. For me, it was very often what allowed me to one-shot enemies.
I don't think the game would have been improved by having the characters... speak differently. What, did you want to have Dacre speak in Thou's and Thy's? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.
JRPGs are all about stacking buffs and dealing massive amounts of damage. You can't really make the game "hard to predict" as you want it to be unless you make every single trash mob capable of easily ending your party. But then, that totally changes the focus of the game. You can't have nearly as many fights, for example, as it would just be way too draining mentally (not to say too long) to go through a dungeon. JRPGs are what they are, I don't see how the formula can be improved that much more, and I don't see why a throwback game like this one should try to change the formula to such a degree. If you want a chess-like experience, a Blizzard RTS or a fighting game is what you're looking for. Very few games in the industry have this quality, so it's a lot to ask out of an indie title.
Anyway, that's my criticism of your criticism.
Did you guys grow mustaches just so that you could twirl them while coming up with the level-up choices?
Fun game, only challenging fight was the optional 4 person encounter.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
You know what would be a kickass platform for this? iOS.
The Raid
You sure she's worth putting up with, then?
I will cop to having something of a blind spot as regards party member selection. As for that first point, though...
Pretty much any time I see the genre criticized, someone winds up saying something to the effect of "The turn-based RPG [is/should be] dead; the genre is fully explored." What I'm saying here is that, well, no it bloody well isn't. There is loads more we can do with the notion of "a variable number of independent characters act in a semi-unpredictable order according to directions given before the beginning of each of a series of turns in order to reduce all opposing enemies' health scores to 0" and we don't. Imagine, if you will, a world where every single platform game featured a character who can damage his enemies only by landing directly on top of them. No Sonic the Hedgehog attacking from all angles while he's spinning. No Contra where you have a gun and need to kill things with your own projectiles. No Metroid or Castlevania where you gain new powers and explore a large, nonlinear map. Everything is left-to-right and hop-on-their head. This is about how I feel about JRPGs in this particular style. CSTW is not just a JRPG in terms of gameplay, but a perfectly safe JRPG. It bothers me.
... which, of course, was the point of the disclaimer. Philosophical objections aside, it's enjoyable.
I didn't have much trouble with either location (though the volcano was a pretty grueling marathon). Bring October for the ice cave; Fireball, especially the branch that hits all enemies, will knock out most everything in a round or two. For the Volcano, bring Paws; his ice techs get bonus damage against nearly everything.
I may not have leveled up enough for October's all enemies upgrade, I'm lv 25 on everyone right now.
EDIT I think I missed the all enemies option around 18 or 19 according to a google spreadsheet someone made..
Just as a note, the ghost forest map apparently killed my crappy video card. Rest of the game runs fine but I unfortunately had to forgo my usually treasure delving and got out of there as soon as possible to save my sanity.
Slash and Rainbow, those were a couple of great games. Can't wait to see what you come up with next. I even have a suggestion for the next one after your current project.
Holy shit, that is awesome news!