Kinect is $149.99 (£129.99 / €149.99), includes Kinect Adventures - thoughts?

The Ender

There's nothing inherently wrong with the technology. Most everyone has been saying how this tech would be fantastic for real-world use. Computer use, user interface stuff, things like that. There are hundreds of practical uses this thing could have.

'Hundreds of practical uses'? Could you, like, name a few?

I'd posit that touch screens and mice are 999% more practical than any motion tracking device when it comes to interfaces (until we're building VR interfaces where maybe you wear goggles or a helmet). I mean, what's more efficient - right-clicking, or making some gesture that does the equivalent function? Flicking your mouse wheel, or making an equivalent gesture? Even just panning around your mouse is likely to be more efficient than guiding a cursor around with gestures.

The only way I could see it becoming remotely close to practical is if you built some processor hogging 3D interface that represents you on the screen as an avatar of some kind - and even that would be ridiculously inefficient compared to just panning a cursor around a 2D plane.

Corehealer

I relish the impending doom Microsoft will witness when their baby doesn't sell as they expect come holiday shopping season.
The device itself is fine but as others have said, it's priced too high, focused too much on niche markets, is coming out too late in this console generation to make much of a long term impact, and doesn't have as many developers making games compatible with it that would appeal to a larger user base.

I'm already on the fence about PS Move because that too has fewer titles I'm interested in, although there are a few, and it's less expensive, but still basically a Wiimote. If I owned a 360 I wouldn't touch this waste of money with a ten foot pole without really outstanding titles that demanded it.

Orogogus

Assuming this isn't just a hate thread, Slickdeals has posted a deal to preorder a Kinect for $90 from Toys R Us using a 40% off video game accessory code (939418) although it's fairly likely that they'll just cancel any preorders come the morning.

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/37028?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SlickdealsnetFP+%28SlickDeals.net+Frontpage%29

Mr_Grinch

Orogogus wrote: »

Assuming this isn't just a hate thread, Slickdeals has posted a deal to preorder a Kinect for $90 from Toys R Us using a 40% off video game accessory code (939418) although it's fairly likely that they'll just cancel any preorders come the morning.

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/37028?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SlickdealsnetFP+%28SlickDeals.net+Frontpage%29

Now that's a fair price! I've still little interest but if that was the RRP I'd consider picking it up. Hell, I bought the PS Eye just so I could play Eyepet.

...I mean so my wife can play eyepet.

Two Headed Boy

I just preordered Kinect from TRU for $89. I'm fairly certain they did not mean for the 40% off code to work on Kinect preorders, so I imagine these orders will be canceled.

But you never know.

LBD_Nytetrayn

The Ender wrote: »

The Power Glove was all Mattel.

Oh.

Yet it always seems to be attributed to Nintendo. Never quite figured out why.

PolloDiablo wrote: »

I thought Milo wasn't real and is never coming out.

They have no clue.

fragglefart

I've already found one UK outlet selling Kinect for £119.99 instead of £129.99 with free delivery;

Zavvi.

I'm sure more will follow, and this is before launch. I'd wager that by Xmas time Kinect will be on sale in a number of places. Amazing how a few less £££ has quite an impact, even at £120 I'm pretty tempted, any less than that I'd jump on it instantly. There is a much better trailer on there too, shows a pile of stuff Kinect can actually do - looks like fun.

Aoi

PolloDiablo wrote: »

I thought Milo wasn't real and is never coming out.

Nope, Lionhead came out a bit after that statement and said it was definitely an ongoing project they planned on releasing in the future, which they again reiterated when Peter Molyneux showed off an updated version at a TED conference a couple weeks ago.

Falken

Dratatoo wrote: »

Kinect is going to be another 32X.

The Xbox already had one of those, HD-DVD drive. So that makes the Kinect the Sega CD? :P

Oh hey, page one.

pslong9

Two Headed Boy wrote: »

I just preordered Kinect from TRU for $89. I'm fairly certain they did not mean for the 40% off code to work on Kinect preorders, so I imagine these orders will be canceled.

But you never know.

Yeah, the code doesn't work anymore. So chances are quite good the orders will be canceled.

Unco-ordinated

Aoi wrote: »

PolloDiablo wrote: »

I thought Milo wasn't real and is never coming out.

Nope, Lionhead came out a bit after that statement and said it was definitely an ongoing project they planned on releasing in the future, which they again reiterated when Peter Molyneux showed off an updated version at a TED conference a couple weeks ago.

Yeah and Molyneux was being a total condescending dick when talking about the Microsoft executive that made the statement about Milo. Molyneux's got balls. They'll change the game industry forever. One of his balls can die and it'll never come back. You can tickle them.

Two Headed Boy

pslong9 wrote: »

Two Headed Boy wrote: »

I just preordered Kinect from TRU for $89. I'm fairly certain they did not mean for the 40% off code to work on Kinect preorders, so I imagine these orders will be canceled.

But you never know.

Yeah, the code doesn't work anymore. So chances are quite good the orders will be canceled.

Logically, you'd think they would. But the 40% off code only worked for a couple hours late last night, so I don't think too many orders were made. I've had ToysRUs promotion glitches get me $80-$100 of merchandise for under $30, and those orders were never canceled. Woke up this morning to an order confirmation email, too, but since it's a preorder there's plenty of time for them to still go back on it.

Orogogus

Welp, canceled. Got a $10 off code for my effort instead.

Mr_Grinch

If there's a more recent thread than this I apologise, I was just reading the requirements:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-29-ms-advises-against-clutter-for-kinect

"The ideal play space starts about six feet away from the Kinect sensor. Some games will need you to move side to side quite a lot, so you'll want to know there are three-to-four feet on either side of you."

Only just moved house, but that would have almost put my old house to shame. 6 feet back, presumably another 4 feet behind that in case you need to move back in a game and then 4 feet either side? So ideally spare space of 10foot by 8foot (at the extreme)? Eep.

cloudeagle

No, I'm pretty sure this is the Kinect thread. I'm not surprised there hasn't been much movement on this, considering how little attention the Move thread has been getting.

Yeah, those are some steep requirements, and supposedly the higher up you place the sensor, the further back you have to stand. That's a lot to ask of your customers, and I'll bet there will be some grumpy buyers. This will also pretty much guarantee there won't be any Kinect demo stations, which are critical for this type of "you have to try it for yourself!" experience. (Then again there aren't any Move demo stations either, which baffles me.)

Synthesis

Given the extreme lengths I've seen some Best Buys go to set up displays for Rock Band or whatever rival band-type game with multiple instruments (moving an entire aisle away or cutting it short), I don't think a demo station is entirely out of the question.

Then again, the Best Buy here in Athens is very pro-gamer. And smaller places like Gamestop might not bother period.

PolloDiablo

If I had a big ass open space in my place I'd put in a pool table before I bought a shitty connect.

cloudeagle

The key problem is space. A Best Buy with their roomy setup might be able to handle it, but a Gamestop or Walmart? Not likely.

Synthesis

Plus, a $150 billiards table would suck. Unless you got some phenomenal deal. Or played with one of those little ones from Peanuts comics.

Kitsuna

I've seen a couple of demo areas set up for Move in my home town. One in a large toy store where they really didn't have to do much to fit it in and the other in a small gaming store where they had to yoink out a shelf filled with old console games to provide a large enough space for a demo area.

Given that they've gone to that much effort for Move, I have no doubt they'll do the same for Kinect - though the smaller store will probably just have a shift around of it's stock so that the current Move area can be converted into the Kinect area.

Synthesis

I've yet to see a single display for Move, but I need to check again. This is very much a gamer-minded town, so if they were anywhere...

Recoil42

Played this today, at a two story retail space that Microsoft has rented out in downtown Toronto specifically to showcase all the games.

Liked it a lot more than I thought I would.

It wasn't super responsive, but the lag wasn't bad, either. Just being able to jump into the area to act as a second player was *really* cool. And while it doesn't have buttons, being able to do things like make full-body gestures to signify movements was way more valuable of an idea than I thought it would be.


For instance, one of the games had you grabbing coins on a rail-shooter-style flythrough of a level. You would grab a coin to your left with your left hand, and grab a coin to your right... grab two at once by holding your hands out. You wouldn't be able to do that on a Wii or with the PSmove controller.

Essentially, they could totally and should totally do this on Kinect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2IFTi2hmUk

Feel free to ask me any questions.

fragglefart

What games did you play Recoil?

Synthesis

Didn't that "Hole in the Wall" show get an American version?

Because I recall having watched it. Is it still around?

The Wolfman

Kinect: You can grab two coins at the same time!

:P

Bartholamue

Synthesis wrote: »

Didn't that "Hole in the Wall" show get an American version?

Because I recall having watched it. Is it still around?

You're right, but I don't think it lasted very long.

EDIT: Looks like they only produced 18 episodes, 10 of which aired. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_in_the_Wall_%28U.S._game_show%29

Mr_Grinch

I've got a question, how much space did they have set up? I'm debating picking up Kinect for parties when the price drops a little, but the room space needed (that I posted on the previous page, roughly 10 foot back, 8 foot to the sides) might be difficult. How were the demo units set up?

Also, I'm pretty sure the PS2 did something like that ring grab thingy with the eyetoy, so the PS3 shouldn't have an issue. That's my main problem with Kinect, short of an infra red camera for depth it doesn't appear to offer THAT much more than the £15 PSeye.

Oh, oh, I have another question *puts hand up*

The psEye is pretty low res, when playing on Eyepet the disconnect between you in 640x480, vs the Eyepet in 720p was quite considerable. How's the resolution for the Kinect? Do you see yourself on screen in these games? If so was it equally distracting?

Kitsuna

Mr_Grinch wrote: »

I've got a question, how much space did they have set up? I'm debating picking up Kinect for parties when the price drops a little, but the room space needed (that I posted on the previous page, roughly 10 foot back, 8 foot to the sides) might be difficult. How were the demo units set up??

The two that I saw - albeit they were for Move - had a hefty amount of space cleared for them. Definitely over 10 feet depth and 8 feet width in both cases. I honestly don't know whether you could get away with less than that.

MeepZero

A quick bit about my Move setup at home here, since there seems to be some questions regarding it.

I bought the move bundle and a controller for 150, that gave me the camera, two controllers, a demo disc, and the sports game that the Move bundle works off of. The space I have set up is roughly 6 feet to the couch, including the couch is about 7 feet. They advertise that it works best in an 8 foot area but for what I have it seems to work pretty well.

Control is surprisingly accurate and lag free. The controller is very much 1 to 1 in movement as well, more so than the Wii ever was. The best example is within the sports game, there is a Gladiator mini game built in that lets you take two controls and do a shield and sword kind of 1v1 fighting game. It works VERY well with the controllers and while I don't like 1v1 fighting games all that much I could see myself jumping into them if this kind of control scheme takes off.

I don't know if the kinect will be as solid but the Move hardware is pretty surprising at how great it works. Even with a bunch of weird lighting (there are several windows and a lamp right behind me) the controls work great and rarely hiccup.

This is the controller setup that I want to see some freaking lightsabers on, the system can VERY quickly pick up on all the crazy angles and the controllers position all over the place.

Beltaine

I'd love to see a Kinect-enabled RPG.

Voice command interaction with NPCs?

Scanning in textures and designs for character customization?

Augmented Reality?

Gesture command based gameplay? (Would be damn nice if I could sit on the couch, though, if I want to LARP, I'll go LARP)

As it stands, though, for what they're doing with it so far, Kinect is still barely a gimmick.

UncleSporky

It's not about what they're doing with it, though. The problem is that none of the mechanisms work really well. If they made a Kinect-enabled RPG with all those features, it would still not be very impressive.

Scans would be low resolution and look bad unless you have perfect lighting.

"Voice command interaction?" Do you really expect to be able to say "ask the man about the bandits" and have it recognize that even 60% of the time?

How do you expect to use augmented reality in an RPG? I like AR, but what would its function be unless the entire game was based on it?

Beltaine

UncleSporky wrote: »

Scans would be low resolution and look bad unless you have perfect lighting.

True, that wouldn't be an easy implementation, plus the first time I run across a player with a picture of his own cock on his tower shield, the fun will be gone.

"Voice command interaction?" Do you really expect to be able to say "ask the man about the bandits" and have it recognize that even 60% of the time?

That's as simple as displaying your conversation options on the screen With keywords in bold for you to say to make that choice.

How do you expect to use augmented reality in an RPG? I like AR, but what would its function be unless the entire game was based on it?

Off the top of my head:

Something like the fairy that Link gets in practicaly every Zelda game could be implemented as augmented reality. Listen!

Inventory system floating in space that you could manipulate.

Hacking/Lockpicking mini-games.

Branching outside of RPG, you could have a turn-based strategy game in which battles are played out on your coffee table.

The Wolfman

Voice interactions would just become the new waggle. Funny little feature to play around that eventually gets annoying and does nothing but replace a button press.

It's neat as hell to shout "OBJECTION!" into the DS microphone in the AA games, but only once. Afterwards, you just hit the button like a normal bloke.

AlanF5

cloudeagle wrote: »

No, I'm pretty sure this is the Kinect thread. I'm not surprised there hasn't been much movement on this, considering how little attention the Move thread has been getting.

Yeah, those are some steep requirements, and supposedly the higher up you place the sensor, the further back you have to stand. That's a lot to ask of your customers, and I'll bet there will be some grumpy buyers. This will also pretty much guarantee there won't be any Kinect demo stations, which are critical for this type of "you have to try it for yourself!" experience. (Then again there aren't any Move demo stations either, which baffles me.)

Think you got that backward. Putting it on top of the TV puts it farther from you, so you can stand closer to the TV but have the same distance to the sensor.

Louie

Saw it at eurogamer but didn't want to queue and try, sensors did not seem to be too far away fromthe people playing, I'm sure some people were within 6 foot.

The dance game looked amazing fun and clearly is their number one app for kinect at the moment. I would buy it and close the curtains to hide my shame from the neighbours.

cloudeagle

So, uh, hope you have an absolutely perfect living room:
http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/05/entire-kinect-manual-photographed-play-distances-power-details-more

Did you know two people playing Kinect need to stand 8 feet from the camera? Did you know Kinect needs to be placed 2-6 feet high to work? Did you know that you don’t need a Kinect power pack if you own a 360 Slim?

You do now.

VG247 has received photographs of the entire Kinect manual, revealing final, consumer-facing information on setting up and using the motion camera.

The required play distances are confirmed in the document: “The sensor can see you when you are approximately 6 feet (2 meters) from the sensor. For two people, you should play approximately 8 feet (2.5 meters) from the sensor.”

The manual also provides height information for placing: “For the best play space and sensor performance, place your sensor between 2 and 6 feet (0.6 and 2 meters) high, the closer to the low or high limit the better.”

You’re also warned that you should “not put the sensor on your console.”

The peripheral’s manual confirms that an external power pack needs to be used unless you own a Slim.

“For Xbox 360 S consoles, power is supplied by the console. For original Xbox 360 consoles, you’ll need to connect the sensor to a standard wall outlet.”

If you own a Slim, the camera’s simply plugged into the AUX input.

Kinect comes with a software disc which needs to be installed for it to work. We’re going to assume this is included in the upcoming 360 dashboard update.

“Troubleshooting”

There’s a troubleshooting section at the back of the manual, which tells you how to fix stuff if it all goes wrong.

If the camera can’t see you, you should “turn on lights to brighten the play space,” “try wearing different colored clothing that contrasts with the background of your play space,” and “prevent lights, including sunlight, from shining directly on the sensor.”

You’re also warned to make sure the system is “well-ventilated.”

Corehealer

Microsoft deserves this train wreck. They cannot innovate technologically to save their souls.

Valleo

They should start bundling Kinect with some bright orange prison issue jumpsuits.

Beltaine

Nah, it's an xbox... bright GREEN jumpsuits.

Klyka

As funny as all of this is,you guys do realize that basically every product ever has some really weird shit in the manual to be safe for every circumstance of "this doesn't work right",right?

All Microsoft is basically doing is saying "if your kinect experience has problems,it might be because of this AND this might solve them" just so you can't sue them/return the product.

It's basic stuff really.

Still, Kinect lololol