Please! Tip!

Imperfect

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that PAX was wonderful and magical and we all can't wait to do it again, yes?

Well, there is something we should seriously plan to do next year that apparently not a lot of attendees worked into your schedules this year: TIP OUR SERVICEFOLK.

Probably the saddest thing I heard all weekend was the phrase "con-goers don't tip much". It was usually in response to "Nice to see the place so busy" or the like, and I swear I heard it at least three times.

I know PAX is expensive as hell for some (I flew from Ottawa, Canada, but I ran into folks who flew in from London and Australia), and tipping seems like it just adds to the expense. But consider! Without tips, a convention weekend just means that the servicefolk just have to work twenty times as hard for the same money.

We want these people to look forward to the next PAX. We want them to welcome us with open arms, not a begrudging groan. Please, when allocating finances towards the next PAX East or Prime, remember:

If you can't afford it without tipping, you can't afford it.

Sgt Superman

I hate how tipping has become expected. I feel if you are just simply doing your job then you should not expect a tip.

And yes, I have worked in the service industry.

Alazull

Eh, I think you're getting a little overzealous about tipping. If I get a Subway sandwich or something they should be ecstatic I'm tipping a dollar, as I cook in an actual restaurant and don't get tips at all.

Now if you go out to eat, getting a drink, or asking something of them that is causing them trouble (i.e. removing the crust from a pre-made sandwich or something like that) then yeah, you should tip at least 10%. But beyond that, the minimum wage in this state is high enough I don't really sympathize with people who barely work when I'm sweating my balls off in the kitchen trying to crank out ten orders as fast as possible and not seeing a dime in tips.

MrBartokomous

Sgt Superman wrote: »

I hate how tipping has become expected. I feel if you are just simply doing your job then you should not expect a tip.

And yes, I have worked in the service industry.

If you've worked in the service industry, then you should know that, at least in North America, bars/restaurants don't pay a living wage on the understanding that tips will make up the difference (which they do, as long as people tip).

If you were served at your table, 15% unless the service was bad. If it was great, 20% or more.

TheGrav

I currently work at Starbucks, as well as helping out at a tattoo shop a few times a week.

No one tips that well anymore. I think it is a reflection of the economy more than anything. However it may just be that a lot of the people that are beginning to make up the purchasing market believe they are entitled to everything.

In my experience even those that should tip don't. EG: 2 minutes before Starbucks closes, you come in and order 8 drinks, mostly blended beverages, all with add-ons or substitutions, and you make it clear you needed them 15 minutes ago. Then don't even bother to tip, that is a bit wrong.

However, worse seems to be that the younger kids, just getting to the age where they can get tattooed don't seem to even realize it is a good idea to consider tipping.

All things consider, I don't believe everyone is entitled to a tip, but when someone goes above and beyond, they don't want to be walked on. The true fix, however is to get out of a job were tipping matters!

Cerrato0426

On our drive back from Seattle, my group talked about how we all had great waiters/waitresses while we were there. Every restaurant we went to provided us with some of the best service I've seen in years. We tipped quite a bit everywhere we went. There was a guy at Denny's who got $18 from our table of four people. Personally I think you should always tip 10% unless the service person was a complete dick. 10% just means you did your job. If they did well give them more.

trickycoolj

I went to one of the nicer, make reservations early in the day, restaurants with my crew one night. It's a place I often frequent with my boss and colleagues during the day when I'm being a suit. I was ecstatic that they were offering a discount to PAX attendees and willing to put up with us in our less than formal attire. We were the first group the waiter had had from PAX (on Saturday night no less) and I could tell he was having a blast with us knowing he didn't need to be an over stuffy waiter with us. He handed us silverware calling them "implements of destruction," talked to us about our day, kept the caffeinated beverages flowing and it just made my night. He got a great big tip from me and I'll be sure to be mentioning to my boss that I want to go there for our next team/regroup lunch for work.

Same with Hard Rock the night before, the waitress was so excited to have another table of PAX attendees and she even got in on the discussion about Bleach and on how to decorate my PWNY.

Honestly, I was really thrilled that the downtown restaurants were able to fill up and be busy for PAX (they're really hurting for lunch crowds these days) so I tried to make up for the 20% discount with my tips.

EskimoDave

With the exception of the bartender at the post-pax party I got shitty service everywhere in Seattle.

Oh and except for the guy in the liquor store. He tipped me with a free beer.

Imperfect

I understand if you don't want to tip at Subway or McDonald's or what-have-you, but at restaurants and bars (where I heard this mainly), where, yes, you get paid less than minimum because tips are expected to make up the difference, people were still being stingy.

If you tip, you reward good service, and you leave a positive impression of PAX attendees for next year. If you skip the tip, you don't give any incentive to give half a shit, and make people dread when we show up next.

Seriously, this is basically just a corollary to Wheaton's Law. In polite society, there are situations where it is expected you leave a tip. Please, just let people know that PAX attendees are part of polite society.

Infidel

Not only did we educate our Australian fella on how to deal with the tipping everywhere, I did not see tipping failure from anyone at my table with any group that I was part of or noticed while at restaurants.

I think the "con goers don't tip" is not really valid as a claim without some kind of meaningful info, because the proportion of those who tip right or not is probably just the same as for everyone in general.

Alazull

Imperfect wrote: »

I understand if you don't want to tip at Subway or McDonald's or what-have-you, but at restaurants and bars (where I heard this mainly), where, yes, you get paid less than minimum because tips are expected to make up the difference, people were still being stingy.

I'm going to clarify something for you. In Washington state, all employers are required to pay minimum wage. There is no reduction in wages that I know of due to expected tips. However, servers are required to report their tips for taxing purposes.

I'll also point out that a favorite trick used by our bartenders is to mention how bad people are for tipping if someone points out how busy it is. Usually, it causes the person this is mentioned to to tip at least 20% if not more because of the perception that they're being a nice person.

Seriously man it's a rare night these guys don't make double what I do in a night just in tips.

TheGrav

I got a bit of a insider look at the Starbucks near the Convention Center, The tip jars were filled, emptied and filled again while I was waiting for my drinks.

Without giving to much of how Starbucks deals with this stuff away I can say our store in Southern California is lucky if we empty our tip jars twice in a day, not twice during a 20 minute period.

Also one of the girls told me, that it gets crazy every few weeks, but at least tips get way better every time a Con comes through.

My last post was a bit more: How the World seems Now. Not much a reflection of our time at PAX, my group, 3 of which are Aussie's, tipped quite well every time.

Infidel

Alazull wrote: »

Imperfect wrote: »

I understand if you don't want to tip at Subway or McDonald's or what-have-you, but at restaurants and bars (where I heard this mainly), where, yes, you get paid less than minimum because tips are expected to make up the difference, people were still being stingy.

I'm going to clarify something for you. In Washington state, all employers are required to pay minimum wage. There is no reduction in wages that I know of due to expected tips. However, servers are required to report their tips for taxing purposes.

I'll also point out that a favorite trick used by our bartenders is to mention how bad people are for tipping if someone points out how busy it is. Usually, it causes the person this is mentioned to to tip at least 20% if not more because of the perception that they're being a nice person.

Seriously man it's a rare night these guys don't make double what I do in a night just in tips.

Exactly, consider your source.

You are basing your info purely on the statements of someone who has money to gain by lying to you?

Sgt Superman

MrBartokomous wrote: »

Sgt Superman wrote: »

I hate how tipping has become expected. I feel if you are just simply doing your job then you should not expect a tip.

And yes, I have worked in the service industry.

If you've worked in the service industry, then you should know that, at least in North America, bars/restaurants don't pay a living wage on the understanding that tips will make up the difference (which they do, as long as people tip).

If you were served at your table, 15% unless the service was bad. If it was great, 20% or more.

Thankfully in Washington this is not the case. The law says you must pay your employees minimum wage, and tips are not part of that. Tips are extra.

Don't get me wrong, I still tip. I just don't like that the service people expect it for doing something they are already getting paid for. Now if they go above and beyond what their job description says, they I have no problem giving a nice big tip.

Sumi

Employers need to pay their employee's properly. It's no my job to provide a living wage for your employee. I have been a server for 3 years and I still feel this way.

Working in any of those lower-level service jobs is an entry level position. As a server I make the equivalent $20 dollars an hour on a regular basis. There is NOTHING I ever did to deserve that kind of wage (apart from the occasional ass-kissing) and It's pretty sad that after four years of school I won't be making near as much money doing a qualified job (for a little while at least).

Servers complain ALL THE TIME about how people don't tip enough and how they aren't making enough money. That's bull. But, if you are still not satisfied with your income, try going to school or seeking a promotion.

Sumi

Btw, contrary to that speech, I tip well and I tip often. I just wish it didn't have to be that way.

juju

I'm a Starbucks employee. One has to realize that just because there's a lot of money in a jar doesn't mean the barista is getting a lot of tips -- it's done on a weekly basis divided by the number of hours on the schedule. More people at a con = more people on the floor = more hours to divide by = less hourly rate = less money. As my already-busy store in Boston has gotten busier, our tips have gone DOWN because of the amount of labor we need to add for time-intensive drinks such as Frappuccinos and whatnot, with tips not going up proportionally to cover the difference.

With that said, I tip at least 18% always when I go out as I have worked in the service industry as a hostess and know how crappy it can be. It doesn't matter whether or not they're lucky enough to be in a state where minimum wage is more -- I'm not going to change how much I tip as industry standard, since tipping is not a pity party. Some people are luckier to work in places than others, that's all (i.e. there are slower Starbucks stores in residential areas that make $3/hr on top of base pay, and high-stress mall Starbucks that make $.75/hr. Luck of the draw).

Imperfect

I can barely keep Canadian employment laws straight, let alone American. Thanks for the clarification, Alazull. And if, indeed, I was taken in by a sweet scam favoured by bartenders, well, shame on me. That said, I worked service for a good half-dozen years and never heard that line being used falsely like that before.

Either way, the point remains. I'm sure we all want to be welcomed back by the servers and establishments we fell in love with and tipping shows our appreciation.

Nullthread

Hi Dan! *waves

Though I agree with the gratuitous tipping, there needs to be at least good service. Yes, I've been a waitress before for large crowds (ugh, weddings-- I have the XP for this man!) I know that I must plaster a smile to my face and not be rude at all, say tasteful good jokes and know how to small talk-- you kind of need that for (the encouragement for) tips. Being a convention center, they are probably warned and/or used to large crowds.

PAX has taught me one thing regarding food: don't eat all your reserves Friday. NEED ENOUGH RATIONS TO SURVIVE SATURDAY.

TheGrav

<-- Starbucks employee too. Not basing my comments on guesses juju.

chupamiubre

Dear people if you can't make a living wage get a different job. If i tip i tip if you are a simpleton who will judge an entire group because some one did not tip you grow the fuck up. Honestly people where else would this type of rhetoric be put up with?

Nullthread

Jobs are hard to come by these days...

Also: I think about 70% of Americans hate their jobs. An interesting cultural fact, probably birthed by the capitalist engine of competition and instant gratitifaction.

killtrip

I hear the OP's argument all the time, and frankly, it disgusts me.

I too have worked in the tip-receiving industry, all the way from pizza delivery to casino work. And the idea that people owe you a tip just because they sit at your table is pure greed. There is no other way around it.

I tip when I get excellent service. As stated before, when the service goes above and beyond what is required. Or maybe they do something to make my time there more enjoyable.. or more memorable.. tip-worthy. But if they just show up and take my order and deliver my food.. you know, the thing that they are supposed to do because its their job? Thats not tip worthy to me.

Also as stated, Washington state has a minimum wage. Which, btw in 2009, was the highest minimum wage in the nation. A full $1.30 higher than the federal min wage.

So, being that there is such a high min wage, the scale doesnt ramp up properly. Specially when I work a job, and there are two state min wage increases in the time my salary freeze has been in effect.. translation: I can quit my tech job and go to work for mcdonalds and make relatively close to the same amount.. in fact, within a few years, I could be making the same amount, if not more.

If they are making such poor wages, then they should get a different job.

If they feel that I owe them a tip just because I sat at their table, then they are greedy.

If they are going to give me poor service because I didn't tip the night before, then I will complain to the manager.

If they approach me with a smile and make my time enjoyable or memorable, I will remember them, and be overly happy to tip.

BTW, I did tip very well at all the places I went to over the weekend. Because I feel I got great service and attitude everywhere I went.

I hit a sandwich shop on capitol hill, and after ordering my pulled pork sandwich, and I did not tip, something happened to my order.. to make it up to me for the wait, the cook gave me an order of fries, on the house. He had cooked extra and thought I'd appreciate them for the wait. And dammit, I didn't expect that, but I did appreciate it enough to drop a 10 in his tip jar. That is excellent service, and because of his great attitude and service, I will happily go back to this sandwich shop the next time I'm in the area.

That is how tips are supposed to work, IMO

Sevecon

I worked for Boston Pizza and never expected tips... that way it was nicer when i got them :P

Shaddz

Last year, that restraunt on the third level was my eatery of choice one day and I had to wait an hour for a plate of fish and chips. There were hardly any people in there, only some suits and a couple members of the G4 crew that I recognized, as well as a dude at the bar.

The waitress was a surly one, and she kept acting like she was entitled to half my wallet.

The fish was good, but the chips were bland, their drinks were watered down, and, after I payed the bill, I tipped what I felt was worth the service I received: 2%. Cuz that's the amount of service she gave me.

Then she went on a tirade about how we are supposed to tip at least yadda yadda yadda, and I flat out told her that Ill tip her yadda yadda yadda when she puts a goddamn smile on her face, my food doesnt come out cold, the drinks are at least at the quality Id get at a Subway (Soda, BTW), and I dont have to wait 20 minutes for her to come around to my table.

Im all for tips, but not like that. I DO tip. I WILL tip. But only if she deserves it.

/SteveBuschemi

Imperfect

Shaddz wrote: »

Last year, that restraunt on the third level was my eatery of choice one day and I had to wait an hour for a plate of fish and chips. There were hardly any people in there, only some suits and a couple members of the G4 crew that I recognized, as well as a dude at the bar.

The waitress was a surly one, and she kept acting like she was entitled to half my wallet.

The fish was good, but the chips were bland, their drinks were watered down, and, after I payed the bill, I tipped what I felt was worth the service I received: 2%. Cuz that's the amount of service she gave me.

Then she went on a tirade about how we are supposed to tip at least yadda yadda yadda, and I flat out told her that Ill tip her yadda yadda yadda when she puts a goddamn smile on her face, my food doesnt come out cold, the drinks are at least at the quality Id get at a Subway (Soda, BTW), and I dont have to wait 20 minutes for her to come around to my table.

Im all for tips, but not like that. I DO tip. I WILL tip. But only if she deserves it.

/SteveBuschemi

You're a shitty Mr. Pink, dude. Mr. Pink don't tip unless his job's on the line. (And possibly his life!)

And hell, I dunno that I'd have tipped any more than you in that circumstance either. I was lucky, though, everyone I ran into this year server-wise was really awesome, so I tipped well everywhere I went.

nemaihne

I did way too much time in food service not to tip well when I get good service but have no qualms about going 10% or even less for an unsatisfactory experience. I'm all for credit where credit is due, but I don't agree with tipping just for the honor of being ignored. That said, I can't think of a single place we ate that didn't get at least 15% anywhere in Seattle and some 25%. I think Seattle's pretty con-friendly, but maybe I just hit all the right places.

Steel Fire

No matter the circumstances around which this thread started, there is a valid point there. It's been something covered in mainstream media over the last couple years as well; much of the younger generation (25 and under) don't seem to understand the concepts of tipping.. on both the giving and receiving end.

I think we can all agree that tipping has to do with the level of service and is something the service person should earn. It's not an entitlement. That said, also consider how busy they are, your service may not be as quick as you'd like if the place is packed solid. A little situational awareness helps with that, watch if you're server is running around taking care of everyone or disappearing and the other tables are wondering where they are too.

Keep the hotel staff in mind too. If you have a room full of people and you're having them come in to clean up the room every day then tip them as well. In that case, make sure you either catch them in the hallway doing the rooms or leave the tip with a note so they know it's for them.

Honestly, it doesn't seem anyone posting here needs the info, but for anyone reading and not commenting it is always good to know.

Crabbles

MrBartokomous wrote: »

Sgt Superman wrote: »

I hate how tipping has become expected. I feel if you are just simply doing your job then you should not expect a tip.

And yes, I have worked in the service industry.

If you've worked in the service industry, then you should know that, at least in North America, bars/restaurants don't pay a living wage on the understanding that tips will make up the difference (which they do, as long as people tip).

If you were served at your table, 15% unless the service was bad. If it was great, 20% or more.

Sure, businesses don't pay a huge amount, assuming that tips will cover it a bit. So how is that my problem? Sounds like it is the management's problem and the employee's problem (since they chose to work there). I'm tired of hearing this excuse. I'm with so many other people on this thread, I tip when they have gone beyond what is expected of them for their job.

Jerob

Crabbles wrote: »

MrBartokomous wrote: »

Sgt Superman wrote: »

I hate how tipping has become expected. I feel if you are just simply doing your job then you should not expect a tip.

And yes, I have worked in the service industry.

If you've worked in the service industry, then you should know that, at least in North America, bars/restaurants don't pay a living wage on the understanding that tips will make up the difference (which they do, as long as people tip).

If you were served at your table, 15% unless the service was bad. If it was great, 20% or more.

Sure, businesses don't pay a huge amount, assuming that tips will cover it a bit. So how is that my problem? Sounds like it is the management's problem and the employee's problem (since they chose to work there). I'm tired of hearing this excuse. I'm with so many other people on this thread, I tip when they have gone beyond what is expected of them for their job.

Frankly, if you are arguing that the tipping culture in this country should shift to a more European way of thinking that is something to be discussed. However, the reality is that is quite legal for an employer to pay well under minimum wage as there is a cultural expectation of a tip. Now I will admit that unless I'm sitting down at a restaurant I will normally not tip the normal 15-20 percent, but I try to at least put forth something if there are no glaring attrocities in the service.

Nope

I just hate it when I am at a restaurant and the bill automatically charges 15 percent extra to serve as a "tip".

The Daily Grill pulled this on me. How about you let ME decide if the service was worth a 15 percent tip instead of just automatically charging me that. I am all for giving tips but it is MY choice how much to give or not give based on service, not something I should be automatically charged for, especially if I am just ONE person and end up paying exorbitant prices for something I could easily get for half of what your charging anyway.

strebalicious

That's why I like the Japanese way concerning this. The server only comes to you if you ask them to, meaning they won't bother every 3 minutes asking "Is everything okay?" like a teenage boy with self-esteem issues would ask his girlfriend. Meaning, tips aren't even taken. I tipped accidently once here when I first visited, and I had the server chase me like 3 blocks down the road to give me the tip back.

I don't really see the point in tipping the barista at Starbuck's. Then I'd have to start tipping the cook at McDonald's. Bars and restaurants, sure, with excellent service, should get tips. Hell, I drunkenly tipped a chick at Waffle House $80 for her awesome service and putting up with, and even dishing back out, the jokes of three obnoxious sailors.

trickycoolj

strebalicious wrote: »

That's why I like the Japanese way concerning this. The server only comes to you if you ask them to, meaning they won't bother every 3 minutes asking "Is everything okay?" like a teenage boy with self-esteem issues would ask his girlfriend. Meaning, tips aren't even taken. I tipped accidently once here when I first visited, and I had the server chase me like 3 blocks down the road to give me the tip back.

I did not know this! Now I understand why you always have to hunt someone down at my favorite new kaiten restaurant in my neighborhood! (And will feel less bad for doing so.) I suspected there was something similar to Vietnamese culture of not bringing you your check at the table to allow you to linger and enjoy your time.

TNTrooper

If a business pays less then minimum wage cause of tips they are required to pay the difference if an employee doesn't get tipped enough to make minimum wage.

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ElmoFuntz

The tipping expectation has gotten out of hand in my opinion. Now days I'm expected to tip for food, for haircuts, for bellhops, for getting my car, for tons of other stuff. Sorry the logic that people are owed tips because their employer is a dweeb and lowballs their pay does not fly. They are not allowed by law to pay below minimum wage in many states. Seattle being one (http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/Minimum/). I never really understood why there if this faction of workers that think they are owed extra money for doing their job, should I tip the cashier at the store on the way out now to? Who is going to tip me the next time I fix their computer?

That said I will tip someone who does a good job and does not make me wait 20 minutes to take my order or refill my water. Mandatory tips otoh are stupid and just encourage a worker but be a lazy arse (we got nailed with an 18% mandatory for 6 people at Von's luckily the guy was fairly good).

Djiem

mcdermott wrote: »

Also, I've found that far too often I get fuckawful service in restaurants (or at tables) where the gratuity is added automatically (common for large parties or in touristy areas). That's the service you'd get if there were no tips, so consider that.

This is incredibly wrong and false. There are plenty of jobs where clerks or salespeople offer a service customized to the customer, make no tip or comission, and there are plenty of people working those job that offer good service. Tipping should be reserved for exceptional service, and should apply to any job.

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Buraisu

Servers would complain about tipping even if they were making $100 an hour. Know why? Because people's greed never caps out.

Oh and I give out 10% for good service and 0% for bad. Have fun with that.