Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Hesher] Armageddon Death Squad

1535456585962

Posts

  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah yeah yeah. She gives me enough shit for it every time I listen to them now. I don't need it from here too. I thought we were cool. :(

    Bolthorn on
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I saw Comeback Kid tonight. They did a tribute to Seth Putnam. That was pretty neat.

    Tav on
  • KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Guess what time of year it is?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gKE67L97SA&feature=player_embedded

    We should pass the plate around and get Auto a ticket so he can review it.

    Kakodaimonos on
  • Futt BuckerFutt Bucker Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    My 2011 list right now is:

    Burzum - Fallen

    I still haven't heard The Great Mass. I just built a new computer so I'm still rebuilding my music collection.

    Futt Bucker on
    My color is black to the blind
  • autothrallautothrall Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Guess what time of year it is?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gKE67L97SA&feature=player_embedded

    We should pass the plate around and get Auto a ticket so he can review it.

    Alas, I am now blind. Thanks for that.

    autothrall on
  • AdrenalineAdrenaline Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So, thanks. Now, I'll know that forever.

    http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217538225_Frjt9-L-2.jpg

    Adrenaline on
    I will show you fear in a handful of dust
  • yakulyakul Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Kinda feel bad for Brian Posehn there, but I guess that's a bit part of his audience :(

    yakul on
  • GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    hanskey wrote: »

    Edit: @GreasyKidsStuff - when you get a chance and want more deathrash that evolved out of the Symbolic sound, check out one of the best: Martyr (Can). Also, Obliveon (Can) is great deathrash too.

    Thanks man, I'll check it out!

    GreasyKidsStuff on
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    yakul wrote: »
    Kinda feel bad for Brian Posehn there, but I guess that's a bit part of his audience :(

    I feel this way about Mick Foley. Jaysus, that guy was an idol of mine when I was a kid. Sad to see.

    Tav on
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    autothrall wrote: »
    ... Opinion on The Aura ...
    Let me first apologize that I questioned your list, but allow me to mention that I was not terribly serious: it's your list, not mine. That said, I wouldn't have acted like an excited 4 year old about it if I knew you had already formed a firm opinion on The Aura, but I didn't, so perhaps I can be forgiven for that. However, I disagree with most of what you said there in your analysis/experience, and I must comment, even though I recognize that I should simply accept the difference of opinion and move on. :P

    Let's start with the riffs. Perhaps my ear is dumb, but AFAICT The Aura riffs are at least as menacing as The Faceless or Fleshgod Apocalypse. I agree that Polarity is somewhat more evil sounding than those, but on Polarity I would attribute that more to the production, and atmospherics, because to me the riffs don't sound anymore MENACINGLY DEATH METAL, than anything else in tech death. I enjoy Decrepit Birth, particularly Polarity, but I definitely found that Diminishing Between Worlds, yielded diminishing returns for me ;-), because every song sounds pretty much identical to every other one on that album. I also got 0 impression of DEATH METAL MENACE from any of the riffs on Diminishing Between Worlds. Personally, Diminishing Between Worlds is on a level with the lower tier tech death like Man Must Die, and Ontogeny, and even less interesting or fucking scary than Viraemia. It's not even in the same class as Fleshgod Apocalypse, The Faceless, Obscura's Cosmogenesis or Beyond Creation, though I still enjoy it from time to time.

    Also, I'm not into The Aura for the complexity but rather because it gives me serious chills pretty much every time I listen to it. Also, I like it because it is very catchy - since I first got it, several songs have gotten stuck in my head, which basically never happens with tech death.

    To the point on the Vox, I'd also disagree. The layered screams and grunting/growls is quite well done and really adds to the songs in my opinion, and I also think the vox are more varied and interesting than most in the genre, like Fleshgod Apocalypse, and The Faceless, both of whom are in the top 5 tech death. The vox can be a bit loud, but I just equalize them down in the mix, so no biggie there.

    Finally, since when do really good instrumental passages count against an album!:?: The really good instrumental bits in songs like Coexistence just add to the quality of the album to me, and are really the answer to the fatigue criticism that many have of tech death. Besides, Coexistence is just a really good song, so I'm still not sure how that counts against The Aura, though maybe I misunderstood you.

    Anyway, difference of opinion ... *shrugs*
    hanskey wrote: »

    Edit: @GreasyKidsStuff - when you get a chance and want more deathrash that evolved out of the Symbolic sound, check out one of the best: Martyr (Can). Also, Obliveon (Can) is great deathrash too.

    Thanks man, I'll check it out!
    My pleasure! I would be remiss if I did not also mention Atheist and Cynic for the Proggy Deathrash.
    My 2011 list right now is: Burzum - Fallen

    So. Good.

    hanskey on
  • autothrallautothrall Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I will once more qualify that I did LIKE the Beyond Creation album. I am not the enemy. It'd probably be a better use of your energy to take this up against all the old school death mavens currently who will loathe this album just like they loathe everything else in its field. I am not one of them. I appreciate both ends of the spectrum for what they are.
    hanskey wrote: »
    Let's start with the riffs. Perhaps my ear is dumb, but AFAICT The Aura riffs are at least as menacing as The Faceless or Fleshgod Apocalypse. I agree that Polarity is somewhat more evil sounding than those, but on Polarity I would attribute that more to the production, and atmospherics, because to me the riffs don't sound anymore MENACINGLY DEATH METAL, than anything else in tech death.

    I enjoy Decrepit Birth, particularly Polarity, but I definitely found that Diminishing Between Worlds, yielded diminishing returns for me ;-), because every song sounds pretty much identical to every other one on that album. I also got 0 impression of DEATH METAL MENACE from any of the riffs on Diminishing Between Worlds. Personally, Diminishing Between Worlds is on a level with the lower tier tech death like Man Must Die, and Ontogeny, and even less interesting or fucking scary than Viraemia. It's not even in the same class as Fleshgod Apocalypse, The Faceless, Obscura's Cosmogenesis or Beyond Creation, though I still enjoy it from time to time.

    I disagree. I find much more of an oppressive weight and power form Diminishing Between Worlds and Polarity than I get from Beyond Creation...also I like the Fleshgod Apocalypse debut a bit more. I'm a pretty big fan of the modern California tech stuff like Inherit Disease, Sepsism and Severed Savior because of the mix of the brutal precision GOOD riffs and the crushing. Also, never once do I get the same impression of calculated wanking and overload of riffs from any of those bands than I get from The Aura. There is zero heaviness on this album, outside of the few castaway chug rhythms which are layered with solo/melodies. The primary difference for me here was that the bass player had a better presence than Decrepit Birth or The Faceless. That said, even if I'm comparing them to Decrepit Birth, it's not as if I'd rank that stuff all that much higher...
    Also, I'm not into The Aura for the complexity but rather because it gives me serious chills pretty much every time I listen to it. Also, I like it because it is very catchy - since I first got it, several songs have gotten stuck in my head, which basically never happens with tech death.

    It never gave me a single chill throughout the entire album. Are we listening to the same thing? I found almost no atmosphere, just riff after riff after riff and when they hit a particularly good one it is painfully short and they're off to the races again. I found it spastic and choked, even if they've got good control. There are certain parts that are indeed catchy, but for me to put something on my top of the year list, it has to be the ENTIRE package. If this was really that memorable too me, I'd actually want to listen to it, something I've felt no impulse to do after the first few times I spun it months ago. I've found very little resonance in it, just the shiniest new import sports car on the block. I might enjoy listening through The Aura while I'm in the middle of it, sure, but will I care about it ten years down the line? Do the technical elements merge with the songwriting to impress me nearly as much as a Coroner album in 1989? Those are all considerations for me when I am summoning up what I find to be the 'best of the best'.
    To the point on the Vox, I'd also disagree. The layered screams and grunting/growls is quite well done and really adds to the songs in my opinion, and I also think the vox are more varied and interesting than most in the genre, like Fleshgod Apocalypse, and The Faceless, both of whom are in the top 5 tech death. The vox can be a bit loud, but I just equalize them down in the mix, so no biggie there.

    No, the vocals are not really interesting, they're not more varied than a half million metalcore or deathcore or melodic death metal bands, and they are most certainly not malevolent or charismatic whatsoever. They are no more well done than the majority of bands playing modern tech death. Fleshgod Apocalypse might be less varied, but the brutal vocal is certainly more powerful, at least on the debut. In Beyond Creation's defense, finding a unique and distinct voice in this field is very rare, as it is in all of extreme metal. There are painfully few Martin van Drunens and Nattefrosts out there. Bands just seem to want to do something 'fitting', and not something distinguished. One of the reasons that new Hell album has stood out to so many people, the vocalist is different (yeah, I know it's not death metal).
    Finally, since when do really good instrumental passages count against an album!:?:

    I never said they did. But when they're better than the surrounding stuff, and I'm looking forward to them more than the harder hitting parts, then I would say that's a little bit of a problem.

    Once again: if it were me needing to put a score on this album, I'd probably give it a 7.5-8/10 range. It's a likable debut. I did find the band's abilities to be impressive, and capable of some good riffs, and the album itself was very well produced (status quo for many modern tech or brutal death bands).

    But for my year's end list?

    The Great Mass causes me to see hallucinatory storm clouds and mourn ages that I've never experienced, and Surreal Overdose makes me PROUD TO BE A HEADBANGER, The Aura to me just feels like another hole on the golf course of well versed musical proficiency in death metal. Sleek and shiny enough for the magpies, but I'm afraid it won't make my nest. If that's the bees' knees for you, then enjoy the shit out of it I say! If it becomes one of your favorite albums ever, so be it. But I've definitely not felt any compulsion whatsoever to keep spinning the record even mere weeks after exposure...and to make the top 20 for me, it must be something I can't get out of my system.

    NOW I SENTENCE YOU TO THIS!!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y25snz83ms

    autothrall on
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    WTF!? HAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:

    So catchy ...
    autothrall wrote: »
    ...Lots of good points and discussion ...
    The Great Mass causes me to see hallucinatory storm clouds and mourn ages that I've never experienced, and Surreal Overdose makes me PROUD TO BE A HEADBANGER, The Aura to me just feels like another hole on the golf course of well versed musical proficiency in death metal. Sleek and shiny enough for the magpies, but I'm afraid it won't make my nest. If that's the bees' knees for you, then enjoy the shit out of it I say! If it becomes one of your favorite albums ever, so be it. But I've definitely not felt any compulsion whatsoever to keep spinning the record even mere weeks after exposure...and to make the top 20 for me, it must be something I can't get out of my system.
    Hey, I totally appreciate where you are coming from and basically agree with you and this is a silly argument. I think we both recognize that we won't convince each other, but it's almost obligatory to argue the points, even though on nearly every other thing about tech death we agree. I should also mention, that I was actually quite surprised at how much I've been enjoying The Aura. Also, I totally shouldn't have made it about the list -> it's yours and you put on what you like the most, end of story.

    I know you aren't the enemy and I totally feel you are justified in having a different opinion than me because we obviously didn't get anything like the same thing from The Aura, but for some reason I really felt obligated to do a point by point. Also you articulated your position with your usual concise accuracy and without genre bias, but it doesn't sound like we're even talking about the same album at this point. I have to really reiterate your question: "Are we listening to the same thing"? I guess we certainly haven't heard the same thing. ;-)

    All I can say is that the tech riff patterns on The Aura give me chills. I'll grant you that they aren't super malevolent or atmospheric (similar to most top tier tech death), but for whatever reason they raise the little hairs on my neck and arms. IDK why, but that's the reaction I have.

    I understand how you evaluate albums, and I have adopted your system myself because I think it is ingenious and I really appreciate it in reviews particularly. We simply differ on how much we enjoyed The Aura, and how much we enjoyed it compared to other tech death albums. No biggie. :)

    I felt compelled to respond, not because I was mad or don't like you, but because I do like you and I think you are one of the most reasonable people I've met, so I felt safe about contradicting your extremely well-informed opinion and I was pretty sure you would not take it personally. Besides, the thread needs friendly disagreements and agreements on various albums/songs/bands, particularly new releases.

    Edit: Anyone else wanna share what they've been listening to lately, or what 2011 releases they've been enjoying?

    hanskey on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hey guys... it's been a while. Hanksey must have seen my old posts and so he sent me a message asking why I hadn't posted in so long.

    My relationship with music has changed rather dramatically since I used to post here. I've been working professionally as a jazz pianist and trying to practice as much as possible, which keeps me from having tons of internet time (fine with me). I also play in a 10-year-old jam band that plays mostly originals - influenced by Phish, Frank Zappa, the Grateful Dead, Bill Withers, 90s funk-rock, etc...

    My way of listening to music has also changed a great deal over the past few years. I used to use music primarily as a way of getting a certain type of emotional high. Nowadays I try to focus all my attention on the sounds themselves rather than the feelings I get from them - you might call it a "contemplative" approach. As a result of that and of my interest in jazz and in becoming a great improvising pianist, I haven't been listening to metal too much these days. I've found more fulfillment for myself in other types of music - primarily jazz, funk, Latin music, and so-called "classical" music. I have discovered that I love music that has a strong groove and features improvisation - which is why I am so interested in the forms of music developed by black Americans in the 20th century. Along the way, I've learned a lot about the influence jazz and jazz/rock has had on various types of rock and metal. (Elvin Jones on John Bonham, Al Di Meola on 80s thrash...)

    None of that is intended as criticism of metal or of other ways of listening to music - just an attempt to explain my own personal perspective. (BTW, I also have lost interest in a lot of the prog-rock I used to be into.) I definitely still appreciate a few of the things I loved back when I was listening primarily to metal - funnily enough, the things I still enjoy are the most obvious ones, not the obscurer stuff I spent most of my time listening to. Master of Puppets is a good example.

    Now, to what I'm listening to these days. This past month I've really been digging into bossa nova, particularly the compositions of Antonio Carlos Jobim. People often think of his songs as background music because they're "relaxing," but they're actually very rich musically and his recordings feature some of the best musicians on the planet. I've been learning as many of his tunes as I can and trying to become familiar with the Brazilians rhythms incorporated into that music. There's a great album by Stan Getz called Getz/Gilberto that's been blowing me away. I also like an all-Jobim album Joe Henderson put out in the 90s called Double Rainbow. The first half features mostly Brazilian musicians while the second half features musicians more familiar to the American scene (Herbie Hancock plays piano).

    I've been learning a bit more about Afro-Cuban music, mostly through a great group/album called Buena Vista Social Club, which was a ground-breaking 90s album introducing many of the pioneers of 20th century Cuban music to the rest of the world.

    On the jazz front, I've really been enjoying a Dexter Gordon album I found at the used CD store - Our Man in Paris. His sense of rhythm on the tenor sax is totally unique and he's a truly tasteful player. Other than that I've been familiarizing myself with some of Miles Davis's earlier recordings, including Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet and The Complete Birth of the Cool.

    I usually have something funky in my playlist at all times. On that front, I've been listening to the same stuff for a while now - Herbie Hancock's seminal Head Hunters and Thrust albums, Sly and the Family Stone, Earth, Wind & Fire, Steely Dan.

    I know a lot less about classical music but I am fairly obsessed with Glenn Gould's sick recordings of J. S. Bach's keyboard works and Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli's recordings of Debussy's Preludes for piano.

    My favorite musicians include Sonny Rollins, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Ron Carter and Jack DeJohnette. My favorite writers are Wayne Shorter, J. S. Bach and Duke Ellington.

    I realize this is a radical departure from the music normally discussed here. If y'all don't want me posting about non-metal here, just let me know. But I'd be happy to share some of the stuff I love with you!

    Finally, this is an incredibly badass video (make sure to watch to the very end):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0GxXBBqAcE

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    A couple more great albums I've discovered recently are Andrew Hill's Black Fire and McCoy Tyner's Inception.

    Here are some of my favorite albums:

    Herbie Hancock - Speak Like a Child
    Herbie Hancock - Thrust
    Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
    Herbie Hancock/Wayne Shorter/Wallace Roney/Tony Williams/Ron Carter - Tribute to Miles
    Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
    Miles Davis - Nefertiti
    Miles Davis - Live Around the World
    Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
    Erroll Garner - Concert by the Sea
    Stan Getz - Getz/Gilberto
    Bud Powell - Jazz Giant
    Bud Powell's first set of trio recordings
    Chick Corea - Friends
    Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
    Chick Corea - Three Quartets
    Anything by the Standards Trio (Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock and Jack DeJohnette) - particularly Whisper Not and Tokyo '96
    Duke Ellington - Great London Concert
    Duke Ellington - Three Suites
    Glenn Gould - J. S. Bach, Two- and Three-Part Inventions
    Glenn Gould - J. S. Bach, Well-Tempered Clavier, Book I
    Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli - Debussy Preludes, Book I
    Tower of Power - Soul Vaccination Live
    Steely Dan - Aja
    Drive-By Truckers - Southern Rock Opera
    Wynton Kelly Trio w/ Wes Montgomery - Smokin' at the Half Note
    The Mahavishnu Orchestra - Visions of the Emerald Beyond
    The Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mounting Flame
    Al Jarreau - Look to the Rainbow
    Sly & The Family Stone - Fresh
    Dr. John - Right Place, Wrong Time

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Ok first - Buena Vista Social Club fucking rules! Ibrahim Ferrer also has quite a few solo albums that you should check out if you haven't yet.

    Props to you for Miles Davis, Hancock and Duke, but how is it I'm seeing no Thelonius Monk or Charley Parker? ;-)

    What do you think of jazzy metal? Is that just a terrible term or a real thing?

    Do you have an equally sick recording of Beethoven's symphonies? I ask because I haven't found one I love like the recordings I had as a kid, (literally 20 years ago).

    Also, since you have switched away from listening to music for the emotional "high", what then do you express in your improvisational work? Would you say metal is more emotional than jazz?

    It's really interesting to read your post, because I feel a bit like silent ships passing in the night as my own personal journey through music has taken a somewhat reverse course from you. I used to be into Jazz (played trumpet), listened to much of the same music you mentioned, and then I got into metal and haven't really had the desire to go back to any of that yet.

    hanskey on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I like Monk but haven't spent a lot of time with him. I am intimately familiar with the music of Charlie Parker, and I love it, but his playing was never as close to my heart as some of the people I listed. I am not as naturally attuned to his style as I am to Herbie's, for example.

    I know very little about jazzy metal. There are definitely some connections. Most of the jazzy metal I have heard may take some stylistic elements but not the spirit of the music (spontaneity and improvisation). It's very... uh... white.

    I have a couple of Beethoven recordings but I can't remember who performed them.

    I don't consider metal to be more emotional intrinsically. I don't think a piece of music actually contains an emotion - it's more a matter of our associations + lyrics + the physical effect of the music and certain parallels it has with our emotional experience (tension and release, etc). But I think that in general, metal is intended less as "absolute music" and more as an overall experience the appeal of which is not solely musical. Which is fine, just not where I've been headed for some time now. I think of music in terms of making, not expressing - that is, any artist makes something which in some sense exists outside of himself and has its own specifically artistic value, not dependent on having to communicate an idea or an effect. That is the original meaning of the word "art" - the virtue that enables someone to make something well (whether a painting, a piece of music or a table). The artist is closely related to the artisan. Of course, music is a performing art, so there's the "doing" as well as the "making."

    When I improvise I hope to play what I hear in the moment. The challenge is attaining, through practice and mental focus, the freedom necessary to play something I may have never played or even heard before.

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wow... I just took a look at the old Last.fm PA Metal Thread... that joint used to be jumpin'.

    Nicko McBrain... hahaha.

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, it's a fucking metal wasteland here and there these days, but damn it must have been fun!! Don't get me wrong I enjoy getting to participate in discussion now, but damn there were so many more people back then, and people were posting like mad all the damn time! None of this "waiting for 3 days for a new post" shit.

    Monk is definitely the jazz man I've spent the most time with, personally. When I first started listening to him I was not feeling it, but quickly I came around and I swear that for the last 15 years every time I hear Monk he sounds more fresh and amazing. His timing and tonalities and quite idiosyncratic, but that's why I love him.

    As to improvisation - easily the hardest thing I ever had to do as a musician, and something I was never actually very good at. I know exactly what you mean about the mental state required for it though!

    Does anyone know if PA.fm is still open and receiving new peeps?

    hanskey on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    There haven't been any new posts there for years and I don't even have an account there anymore...

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, I don't have a last.FM account either.

    I was just thinking that it would be nice to have a moderator-free zone, where we can all talk about whatever. I mean, since no one is using it, surely no one would mind if we took it over?

    hanskey on
  • MorgensternMorgenstern Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Jazz is for fags.

    SLAYER AND PANTERA

    ALL YOU NEED

    Morgenstern on
    “Every time we walk along a beach some ancient urge disturbs us so that we find ourselves shedding shoes and garments or scavenging among seaweed and whitened timbers like the homesick refugees of a long war.” - Loren Eiseley
  • CandlemassCandlemass Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    God, that Amaranthe song sounded like it was pretty much crafted by a record label executive.

    Candlemass on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MorgensternMorgenstern Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The PA Last.FM page has some gems tucked away in it. The thread where we realize that our listening scrobbles dictate what the PA Last.FM page radio plays was hilarious.

    http://www.last.fm/group/Penny+Arcade+Metal+Thread/forum/33967/_/232029/1
    fastnoid wrote:
    You guys by listening to gay songs on the radio you are scrobbling the gay songs again! It's an endless gay-scrobble vortex!

    Morgenstern on
    “Every time we walk along a beach some ancient urge disturbs us so that we find ourselves shedding shoes and garments or scavenging among seaweed and whitened timbers like the homesick refugees of a long war.” - Loren Eiseley
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I remember when I got super frustrated because everyone thought Walrus333 was the same person as Walri...

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • Liquid GhostLiquid Ghost DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm assuming that Walrus333 is a single Walrus, the 333rd Walrus Commander of the Urf Regiment, and Walri is the plural, thereby being a hive-mind capable of controlling the entire horde.

    Liquid Ghost on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm assuming that Walrus333 is a single Walrus, the 333rd Walrus Commander of the Urf Regiment, and Walri is the plural, thereby being a hive-mind capable of controlling the entire horde.

    Heh. Walrus333 is my friend from high school who became Minimalist777 on Last.FM. He is now a skilled magician of the Hammond and pipe organs.

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You were the same person though!

    Mgcw on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm not entirely convinced you're not Walri too, Hanskey.

    Mgcw on
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    It would be in my character ... but ... man ...
    Afraid not, he's the real deal! I just PA-PMed him, got his email from his profile and emailed him, and he was cool enough to respond even though we had never met. Even I think it is weird how similar we sound looking back at his old posts, but I can assure you that I am not making up the children even though sometimes I wish that I was!

    Edit: As I mentioned and then erased, only one of use believes that Malmsteen should have been called neo-baroque instead of neo-classical. ;-)

    hanskey on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The walrus was iconic for our group of friends at the time, which is why he (possibly unwittingly) took a similar user name to mine.

    Yeah, when I got an email from Hanksey he kinda reminded me of myself.
    Jazz is for fags.

    SLAYER AND PANTERA

    ALL YOU NEED

    I know you're probably joking, but in case there's a little bit of what you really believe in there - and for the benefit of anyone who actually does hold that opinion, I gotta correct you. Jazz is as much meant to be a lifestyle ornament for pretentious white people who want to look cultured as metal is meant to be a lifestyle ornament for the Hot Topic crowd - that is, it isn't.

    No disrespect to Slayer and Pantera, and I DEFINITELY don't want to make this a jazz vs. metal conversation in general, but if we were actually going to make a comparison between jazz and metal to see which is more "badass," jazz would win out in a hurry, even before we got to the music itself. Just look at where it came from. The most underprivileged and oppressed class of people in the Western world developed an art form that has been more influential on a worldwide scale than any art form that had previously existed, and which has come to compete with and in a certain sense even eclipsed the pre-existing Western musical tradition, which itself is not to be taken lightly. In the early days of jazz, black Americans were legally forbidden to seek formal musical training, by the way. Just about any of these men knew brutality, death, pain, suffering, anger, hatred, rape, murder and oppression more intimately than any metal musician I can think of - both in their history and in their day-to-day experience. In terms of anger, next to Charles Mingus or Miles Davis, Slayer is a comedy routine. What is more brutal than the life of Billie Holiday? If you go beyond the superficial, lighthearted associations people have with the music of Louis Armstrong, you could say the same about him. (And how many metal musicians have ever tricked Richard Nixon into carrying their marijuana stash onto Air Force One for them? Yes, this actually happened.) Unlike metal, which constantly trumpets about darkness and suffering,* jazz was ACTUALLY born out of darkness and suffering - and for the most part its creators chose not to use their art to bitch about it. What compares in metal - Varg Vikernes's angry white grievance? A desire to rebel against mommy and daddy? Half of the greatest creators in jazz for the first several decades of its history were total junkies - and the ones who didn't manage to kick their habits in incredibly badass ways still managed to summon up the immense discipline required to be the great musicians they were. And even the nicest among them were hard men. That includes the whites working in jazz, who had their fair share of suffering and badassery as well.

    I work day-to-day with real jazz musicians - not the pretentious jazz kids you went to high school with - and I can assure you that they are 100% more badass than any of the metal musicians I've known. I don't mean badass as in wearing the right clothes, being superficially hip or having cool tattoos. I mean badass as in, SERIOUS dedication to music. Even the ones whose playing I can't stand have put more work into their music than would ever be necessary for a metal musician. I don't just mean work on technique, because everybody knows that metal musicians can have some fucking incredible technique. Sonny Rollins was getting all the praise in the world when he was in his 20s and he took several long sabbaticals to practice because he didn't think he was good enough yet to deserve all the applause. I've read interviews with him from the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s and the 90s and in every single one he talks about how he needs more time to practice. This motherfucker is 80 years old and still wants to practice. Roy Haynes is 85 and plays with more fire and intensity than most 25-year-olds. The main thing to remember in all that I've written is that intensity in jazz is not just about being loud, fast, emotionally explosive or what have you (though it can be, as the video below demonstrates). It is a specifically musical intensity, that is, it is an intensity of focus, discipline, and attention to detail. An intensity that manifests itself in ways appropriate to the musical context at hand.

    And it's common sense that metal would not exist without jazz. The blast beat was invented by jazz drummers. Know your roots!

    *Yes, I understand that it's often not meant to be taken seriously. None of this post is a criticism of metal, just a criticism of common attitudes towards jazz by metalheads (and many other people as well). It is entirely legitimate to prefer metal to jazz. But know that jazz is NOT for pussies or the faint of heart. It takes a badass to really listen to it and it takes a badass to really play it.

    Check out Herbie's piano solo - 5:35 to the end. Gee, who knew it was possible to be brutal without distorted guitars and tough-guy vocals? Not to mention that these guys are wearing Hawaiian shirts and they are still the most badass musicians on Earth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzX1PFOSQnM

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    So what you're saying is that metal is jazz, just whiter. ;-)

    Goddamn it Walri! now you are making me want to repair my trumpet!!!! Not fair!

    So do metal techniques/tropes/memes ever find their way back to jazz?

    I can see it now: The Black Metal Improv for Gigasatan, where Blue Northern Plasma channels the Apocalypse back in time to fuel their improvisational rituals of dark surrender!

    I wonder if the first dive-bomb band could be improvised metal? GreasyKidsStuff - what do you think? Dive-bomb + improvisation = Jammetal?

    hanskey on
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Mgcw wrote: »
    You were the same person though!

    Nah man... his writing style and musical tastes were totally different. He was a big doom guy. I actually complained about him on Last.FM one time (before he became a member as Minimalist777) because in high school he was super obnoxious about how deep and profound doom was in comparison to all other genres of metal... it soured me on doom for a while.

    This is walrus333: http://cvnc.org/author.cfm?authorId=48

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • WalriWalri Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    hanskey wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that metal is jazz, just whiter. ;-)

    Goddamn it Walri! now you are making me want to repair my trumpet!!!! Not fair!

    So do metal techniques/tropes/memes ever find their way back to jazz?

    I can see it now: The Black Metal Improv for Gigasatan, where Blue Northern Plasma channels the Apocalypse back in time to fuel their improvisational rituals of dark surrender!

    I wonder if the first dive-bomb band could be improvised metal?

    Haha, there are definitely a lot of differences. I just object to the idea that jazz is this tame, sterile thing with no balls.

    I don't know about it in detail, but I do know some jazz drummers who have taken inspiration from bands like Meshuggah (for obvious reasons). Some of the best death metal drummers have jazz training even if they haven't done much in jazz professionally. Vinnie Colaiuta is one of the best drummers alive - he is primarily a fusion and jazz drummer, but he played on Megadeth's The System Has Failed and he plays with Jeff Beck. That said though, Vinnie is a prolific studio musician so just because he played on an album doesn't mean it's totally his bag. I think he was the studio drummer for a Hilary Duff album, for example. :P

    I can ask my drummer for more examples - he was a big black and death metal guy in high school so he's up on this stuff.

    Walri on
    Truly Grim and Frost-Bitten Cooking Thread
    Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
    Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
  • NargorothRiPNargorothRiP Registered User
    edited June 2011
    walri that wall of text was so metal! wooo \m/

    NargorothRiP on
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Walri wrote: »

    I'm really worried about that walrus, he needs to eat a steak or something ... Must be a global warming thing!

    hanskey on
  • I N V I C T U SI N V I C T U S Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So, that metal thing we all like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfpDfBaOons

    A lot of people seem to prefer Therion's mid-period stuff (Lepaca Kliffoth/Theli), but I don't think they're ever going to top Beyond Sanctorum. Part of this is of course my own opinion, as I'm a big death guy and I find the middle period albums kind of boring and underdeveloped, but you can already hear the classical influence on this album. I think that's why I like it so much - it's pretty different from the other Swedeath getting released around the same time.

    Listen to the riff at 1:00 and that comes back at 4:50. That's classical arrangement, homes. Violins could play that shit and it wouldn't sound out-of-place.

    I N V I C T U S on
    BY THE HOARY FUCKING HOSTS!
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Thank you for that sir!!

    Much of the metal I listen to, really from all genre's, seems as though it could be arranged for classical orchestration and still communicate the same basic message. Even the really dissonant, spastic shit could be adapted and fit into classical settings and not sound out of place, IMO.



    Edit:
    Walri wrote: »
    I can ask my drummer for more examples - he was a big black and death metal guy in high school so he's up on this stuff.
    Please do. I'm actually quite curious.

    Do you think there is an unexplored space for improvisation within metal?

    Obviously it would be ridiculously hard to play, though no harder than jazz, but do you think there is a structural issue that makes metal incompatible with improvisation, or is it just a matter of common practice and convenience?

    hanskey on
  • hanskeyhanskey Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Is it just me or is a serious thread on real magic seem like the perfect place to talk about demon summoning, and the left-hand path in general?

    hanskey on
This discussion has been closed.