EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
I'm ok with elves being declining and mopey but what always was bonkers is sort of pointed out in the Hobbit films. Dwarves are rich, industrious, have bonkers amount of technology compared to everyone else.... and somehow aren't ruling everyone everywhere?
I'm ok with elves being declining and mopey but what always was bonkers is sort of pointed out in the Hobbit films. Dwarves are rich, industrious, have bonkers amount of technology compared to everyone else.... and somehow aren't ruling everyone everywhere?
Huge population loss due to wars and they have been declining in fertility over the years is my theory.
That and they would rather just work than rule. Wherever the ores are is where you will find them. Just leave them the hell alone or face eternal grudges.
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
I like to think in the fifth age they become a huge rival to humanity. Elves are gone, orcs are dispersed. Ring problems are gone.
TIME TO GET DRUNK AND SEIZE THRONES. AND IM ALL OUT OF DWARVEN ALE
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
While possessing many helpful attributes such as longevity, wealth, skill with metallurgy, and skill for battle, I would imagine that the decline of the dwarves was due to their clannishness keeping them from establishing new cities and populations, as well as a level of greed and material aspirations that would preclude them from cooperating with other groups and people for common goals.
I don't know if Tolkien ever wrote about it (and someone should post about it if they do), but most of the LOTR characters don't even try to rely on Dwarves. Most of those films and books are dedicated to small groups of humans, elves, and wizards trying to appeal to larger groups of humans, elves, and magic folk to enlist in the cause against Sauron. But Dwarves? Meh, fuck 'em. Even Gandalf and Sauron are like, "Damn, looks like we're gonna have to depend on these shit-ass humans. Dwarves ain't gonna help shit." Plus, dwarves just don't intereact with anyone else. I mean, Gimli was a distant member of the royal family of Durin's folk, and even he didn't hear about his cousin, The Ruler of Moria, being dead for decades and decades.
Dwarves don't give a fuck about anything other than digging for wealth. Even The Hobbit company of dwarves only care about reclaiming their home because it's the single largest deposit of wealth in the world. They weren't as isolationist originally, but although their nature allows them to resist corruption, the rings of power did amplify their material greed significantly.
They're very easily offended and hold grudges for hundreds of years. Also only something like 25% of the population are female so their numbers don't grow all that quickly.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Tolkien explicitly established that Dwarves had skewed gender ratios as Rami said. More men than women, only one Dwarf woman in the entire legendarium got a name, Thorin's sister Dis, mother of Fili and Kili, and then that many Dwarves simply preferred not to marry on top of that, and not just the surplus men. Basically if you friendzone a Dwarf, they won't get with anyone else, ever.
The post above me is actually right. Although i don't have a source on this, I read that Tolkien's plan was that the Dwarves went extinct sometime in the 4th age.
Although you have to kind of put the blame on Aule for that. Why he thought creating a race with more men than women was a good idea...
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DHSChase lizards.....bark at donkeys..Registered Userregular
The dwarves were created by a craftsman deity, in imitation of the impression of the yet to come children of Iluvatar, which was presented to the Ainur as a song.
They are essentially made by humming a half-remembered song years afterward, hence their multitude of endemic cultural and biological issues
"Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Anybody make it out to see the BATFA:EE last night?
While possessing many helpful attributes such as longevity, wealth, skill with metallurgy, and skill for battle, I would imagine that the decline of the dwarves was due to their clannishness keeping them from establishing new cities and populations, as well as a level of greed and material aspirations that would preclude them from cooperating with other groups and people for common goals.
I don't know if Tolkien ever wrote about it (and someone should post about it if they do), but most of the LOTR characters don't even try to rely on Dwarves. Most of those films and books are dedicated to small groups of humans, elves, and wizards trying to appeal to larger groups of humans, elves, and magic folk to enlist in the cause against Sauron. But Dwarves? Meh, fuck 'em. Even Gandalf and Sauron are like, "Damn, looks like we're gonna have to depend on these shit-ass humans. Dwarves ain't gonna help shit." Plus, dwarves just don't intereact with anyone else. I mean, Gimli was a distant member of the royal family of Durin's folk, and even he didn't hear about his cousin, The Ruler of Moria, being dead for decades and decades.
I feel like the movies did that a bit differently than the books? I feel like in the books they all knew Moria was dead before they got there. Or at least that something seriously wrong had happened.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
While possessing many helpful attributes such as longevity, wealth, skill with metallurgy, and skill for battle, I would imagine that the decline of the dwarves was due to their clannishness keeping them from establishing new cities and populations, as well as a level of greed and material aspirations that would preclude them from cooperating with other groups and people for common goals.
I don't know if Tolkien ever wrote about it (and someone should post about it if they do), but most of the LOTR characters don't even try to rely on Dwarves. Most of those films and books are dedicated to small groups of humans, elves, and wizards trying to appeal to larger groups of humans, elves, and magic folk to enlist in the cause against Sauron. But Dwarves? Meh, fuck 'em. Even Gandalf and Sauron are like, "Damn, looks like we're gonna have to depend on these shit-ass humans. Dwarves ain't gonna help shit." Plus, dwarves just don't intereact with anyone else. I mean, Gimli was a distant member of the royal family of Durin's folk, and even he didn't hear about his cousin, The Ruler of Moria, being dead for decades and decades.
I feel like the movies did that a bit differently than the books? I feel like in the books they all knew Moria was dead before they got there. Or at least that something seriously wrong had happened.
That's largely correct. Initially they got a steady stream of positive reports from Moria, but within a few years of FotR, the reports had dried up and Moria had gone silent. With war looming on the horizon and shadowy emissaries from Mordor showing up on the Lonely Mountain's doorstep, investigating what happened to Balin's expedition wasn't a priority. It had always been something of a pet project of his, not an official pursuit of King Dain. Dain, in fact, was always pretty pessimistic about Moria. After the War between Dwarves and Orcs was won he was the first dwarf to set foot in Moria again and he saw something down there that made him say:
Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.’
At the council of Elrond Frodo talks a bit with Gloin (who is visiting as part of the dwarven diplomatic contingent, along with his son), and he more or less admits that they fear the worst, but don't actually know anything.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
So apparently the BATFA:EE has these new scenes:
- More Galadriel beatdown action at Dol Guldur
- More Elrond & Saruman vs. the Nine
- Gandalf getting a new staff
- Lots more Bofur scenes (which is good, he's the best)
- More Dain
- Thorin's funeral and Dain's coronation
- Apparently LOTS of battle stuff
So there you go. Available on iTunes and other digital formats this Tuesday, on DVD and Blu-Ray Novemeber 17th.
Tolkien explicitly established that Dwarves had skewed gender ratios as Rami said. More men than women, only one Dwarf woman in the entire legendarium got a name, Thorin's sister Dis, mother of Fili and Kili, and then that many Dwarves simply preferred not to marry on top of that, and not just the surplus men. Basically if you friendzone a Dwarf, they won't get with anyone else, ever.
The post above me is actually right. Although i don't have a source on this, I read that Tolkien's plan was that the Dwarves went extinct sometime in the 4th age.
Although you have to kind of put the blame on Aule for that. Why he thought creating a race with more men than women was a good idea...
yeah, if you're going to have a gender imbalance, more women than men makes more sense
It's all saltwater these days:
Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Okay, friends, having now procured my digital copy of all the EEs, I'm ready to start working on my master edit, but I would like some feedback from all of you.
The purpose of this edit is to pare this bloated filmapalooza into a single work of manageable length while also making it a critical part of the Lord of the Rings films that follow. I want this to be, in some ways, Lord of the Rings, Year Zero. Much like Jackson in his films, aiming for Tolkien purity is not the ultimate goal, and some things must be excised in the name of expediency, momentum, and narrative coherence.
And with that said, this is where I'm at right now:
- Bilbo is the central character in this film, but a huge problem is that he doesn't have much to do, and the story happens around him, not really to him or because of him. The key narrative thrusts are with Thorin's quest to reclaim Erebor and with Galdalf's investigation into Dol Guldur. Bilbo gets some fine moments with Balin annd Bofur, and anything in the EEs that expand those relationships need to be pushed to the forefront.
- However, there are lots of narrative alleyways that are neither satisfying nor largely important to the events in LOTR. While some instances of the characters involved may remain, these plots will be removed:
- Kili/Tauriel/Legolas love triangle? Gone.
- Bard's kids? Gone.
- The Master of Laketown and Alfrid? Almost definitely gone.
- Radagast? Probably very trimmed down.
- Bad attempts at comedy? Out.
- The battle with Smaug in the forges of Erebor? See ya.
- Barrel escape? More like "pleasant barrel drift completely without drama."
- The day-time orc chase near Rivendell? Goodbye.
- Frodo in the bookends? Adios, precious
- Goblin Town? Barely.
- Stone Giants? Noooope.
- As well, a lot of the flashbacks to the battle at the gates of Moria might be excised for story reasons, mostly to streamline things.
- Okay, so this is the big one, and the one I'm wanting the most feedback on: I'm thinking about keeping Thorin alive. I think there's a way to edit the ending of the movie so he doesn't die after the battle with Azog, and using footage from the prelude in AUJ, give an uplifting ending to make it seem like Thorin is coronated as king. His death in the film is such a moment of anticlimax, and Kili and Fili's death only exacerbates the futility of it all, I feel.
- I'm considering paring down, removing, or otherwise recontextualizing the denouement with Bilbo coming back to his home being ransacked. It seems so extraneous and kills the tone, I want to find a way to make this a lot smoother.
- I'm also going to attempt some technical changes, though I may need some help for that from people more familiar with Final Cut/After Effects and whatnot. If possible, I would like to add a slight blue glowing effect to at least Orcrist (like with Sting, though maybe to a lesser degree), as they were both made by the elven smiths of Gondolin. I'd like Glamdring to do the same, but that would cause a continuity error with the rest of the LOTR trilogy, and since Glamdring is stylistically different enough from the other two it seems like leaving that one be is a reasonable choice. Like I said, I'm not striving for absolute Tolkien purism.
- Also, I'd like to de-saturate the color-timing a little to bring it more in line with the palette of the other LOTR films.
So yeah, this is where I'm at right now. There may be more changes to come, and maybe I'll change my mind on other things after the fact, who knows? But I'm eager to get to work! Comments, questions, and arguments are most welcome.
Dont cut Moria, Moria flashbacks were EPIC as fuck. It also felt VERY LoTR, one of the best hero moments for Thorin and really establishes him as a character in the world.
The Stone Giants were fairly canon. The Dwarves went into the goblin cave mostly because of the rain, but partly because they were disturbed by the possibility of the giants taking notice of them, or just getting caught in the crosshairs of the giants' rock-throwing game. What happened in the films fits the broad-strokes, basically.
Dont cut Moria, Moria flashbacks were EPIC as fuck. It also felt VERY LoTR, one of the best hero moments for Thorin and really establishes him as a character in the world.
I think I'll leave most of the stuff in there about Thorin, though trimming some of it for time. There's a lot of stuff in the DoS:EE that has more Moria stuff, and it kinda drags. I don't know yet about all that, but I'm pretty sure a good bit of it will remain, even if it gets shuffled around or thinned out a little.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The Stone Giants were fairly canon. The Dwarves went into the goblin cave mostly because of the rain, but partly because they were disturbed by the possibility of the giants taking notice of them, or just getting caught in the crosshairs of the giants' rock-throwing game. What happened in the films fits the broad-strokes, basically.
I'd agree with most of the rest.
Again, I'm not trying to strongly hew to any other canon than the LOTR films. The Stone Giants scene goes on forever and means almost nothing in the narrative. I'll consider what's important, probably over and over again, but right now I'm leaning to cutting it.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I'm just asking specifically about Kili and the arrow because if you're removing the love triangle AND Bard's kids, Kili's screen time will be reduced drastically
Unless that's what you were going for.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Are you removing the whole Kili/arrow to the knee part?
Also, if you're talking about a good running time, are you shooting for 3 hours?
Three hours would be great. I'm not sure how cohesive it would feel at that length, it's just going to be one of those things where I'll have to see where I am when I think the first cut is done.
Including the Extended Editions, there's over eight and a half hours of film to whittle down, so even getting that to 4 hours might be a chore. But yes, to answer your question, somewhere between 3 and 4 hours would be ideal. Anything more than that would need an intermission.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I'm just asking specifically about Kili and the arrow because if you're removing the love triangle AND Bard's kids, Kili's screen time will be reduced drastically
Unless that's what you were going for.
Yeah, Kili is gonna take a hit, unfortunately, but hopefully the shorter running time will lessen the sting. He'll still have his scenes with the trolls and I'm putting in his EE scenes at Rivendell, plus keeping the exchange between him and Tauriel when she jails him because it's one of the few attempts at comedy that lands in the film.
The good news for Kili is that I might not kill him. So he has that going for him.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Oh, and I hope nobody was too fond of Beorn.
Gone.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Eh, his movie version was garbo anyway, I doubt he could have been salvaged,
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The Stone Giants were one sentence in the book and it was something being passively observed as a way to illustrate that Bilbo was in the big wide crazy world now, where anything can happen. That functionality is already served by many other scenes, and having it be a big ol' threatening escape sequence was just garbage anyway. Get rid of it.
Aistan on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
If you could keep in the Storm Giants as background that'd be good, just cut out the part where the party interacts with them, I dunno if that's possible though.
I agree with all your plans, Atomika, except the fates of Thorin, Fili and Kili. If you let them live you exacerbate a problem a problem I also have with LotR: the enemy is ineffectual and the dangers trivial when everyone survives without a scratch. (I know Boromir dies in LotR.) Having Thorin, Fili and Kili die shows that war is not without cost and that victory is not achieved without loss.
I agree with all your plans, Atomika, except the fates of Thorin, Fili and Kili. If you let them live you exacerbate a problem a problem I also have with LotR: the enemy is ineffectual and the dangers trivial when everyone survives without a scratch. (I know Boromir dies in LotR.) Having Thorin, Fili and Kili die shows that war is not without cost and that victory is not achieved without loss.
The durability of the heroes in Tolkien strained even my youthful suspension of disbelief as a child when I was reading the books. Removing the ones that canonically die off seems like wishful thinking.
And thank you for cutting the Laketown master. What a goddamn joke.
There may be a little of him in the scene were Thorin and company are outed and plead their case to the people of Laketown, but other than that, yes, duder is bye-bye.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I agree with all your plans, Atomika, except the fates of Thorin, Fili and Kili. If you let them live you exacerbate a problem a problem I also have with LotR: the enemy is ineffectual and the dangers trivial when everyone survives without a scratch. (I know Boromir dies in LotR.) Having Thorin, Fili and Kili die shows that war is not without cost and that victory is not achieved without loss.
I understand what you're saying, but I feel that at least Thorin's death just kills any goodwill the movie had going for it. It sours the ending, and the ending was already kinda downcast and grim.
Kili and Fili I'm less determined to save, but the movie kills them off in such a poorly-conceived way (especially Fili), it's hard to justify keeping that in when I don't have to.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
If you could keep in the Storm Giants as background that'd be good, just cut out the part where the party interacts with them, I dunno if that's possible though.
I'll take a look, but just when considering extraneous things to cut the running time, that's an easy one.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
edited October 2015
Dang, you cut all the good stuff along with the bad. After all of this you essentially have a slightly longer version of the prologue from the Lord of the Rings movies. A lot of what you are cutting is core plot points in the books as well.
Also, Fili, Kili and Thorin all die in the book. It's pretty important as the entire line gets wiped out so that Dain becomes King.
I get pairing down the film because it probably could be 1.5 movies instead of three, but this just seems kinda bonkers.
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Huge population loss due to wars and they have been declining in fertility over the years is my theory.
That and they would rather just work than rule. Wherever the ores are is where you will find them. Just leave them the hell alone or face eternal grudges.
TIME TO GET DRUNK AND SEIZE THRONES. AND IM ALL OUT OF DWARVEN ALE
I don't know if Tolkien ever wrote about it (and someone should post about it if they do), but most of the LOTR characters don't even try to rely on Dwarves. Most of those films and books are dedicated to small groups of humans, elves, and wizards trying to appeal to larger groups of humans, elves, and magic folk to enlist in the cause against Sauron. But Dwarves? Meh, fuck 'em. Even Gandalf and Sauron are like, "Damn, looks like we're gonna have to depend on these shit-ass humans. Dwarves ain't gonna help shit." Plus, dwarves just don't intereact with anyone else. I mean, Gimli was a distant member of the royal family of Durin's folk, and even he didn't hear about his cousin, The Ruler of Moria, being dead for decades and decades.
They're very easily offended and hold grudges for hundreds of years. Also only something like 25% of the population are female so their numbers don't grow all that quickly.
i imagine that the dwarves all died in their mountains a few centuries after the war of the ring
a big theme in the books is that the time of man is coming and all the magical parts of the world are drying up
The post above me is actually right. Although i don't have a source on this, I read that Tolkien's plan was that the Dwarves went extinct sometime in the 4th age.
Although you have to kind of put the blame on Aule for that. Why he thought creating a race with more men than women was a good idea...
They are essentially made by humming a half-remembered song years afterward, hence their multitude of endemic cultural and biological issues
I feel like the movies did that a bit differently than the books? I feel like in the books they all knew Moria was dead before they got there. Or at least that something seriously wrong had happened.
That's largely correct. Initially they got a steady stream of positive reports from Moria, but within a few years of FotR, the reports had dried up and Moria had gone silent. With war looming on the horizon and shadowy emissaries from Mordor showing up on the Lonely Mountain's doorstep, investigating what happened to Balin's expedition wasn't a priority. It had always been something of a pet project of his, not an official pursuit of King Dain. Dain, in fact, was always pretty pessimistic about Moria. After the War between Dwarves and Orcs was won he was the first dwarf to set foot in Moria again and he saw something down there that made him say:
At the council of Elrond Frodo talks a bit with Gloin (who is visiting as part of the dwarven diplomatic contingent, along with his son), and he more or less admits that they fear the worst, but don't actually know anything.
- More Elrond & Saruman vs. the Nine
- Gandalf getting a new staff
- Lots more Bofur scenes (which is good, he's the best)
- More Dain
- Thorin's funeral and Dain's coronation
- Apparently LOTS of battle stuff
So there you go. Available on iTunes and other digital formats this Tuesday, on DVD and Blu-Ray Novemeber 17th.
What makes you think I have a vested interest?
Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
Half alive in a whitecap foam
Half in love with a white half moon
The purpose of this edit is to pare this bloated filmapalooza into a single work of manageable length while also making it a critical part of the Lord of the Rings films that follow. I want this to be, in some ways, Lord of the Rings, Year Zero. Much like Jackson in his films, aiming for Tolkien purity is not the ultimate goal, and some things must be excised in the name of expediency, momentum, and narrative coherence.
And with that said, this is where I'm at right now:
- Bilbo is the central character in this film, but a huge problem is that he doesn't have much to do, and the story happens around him, not really to him or because of him. The key narrative thrusts are with Thorin's quest to reclaim Erebor and with Galdalf's investigation into Dol Guldur. Bilbo gets some fine moments with Balin annd Bofur, and anything in the EEs that expand those relationships need to be pushed to the forefront.
- However, there are lots of narrative alleyways that are neither satisfying nor largely important to the events in LOTR. While some instances of the characters involved may remain, these plots will be removed:
- Kili/Tauriel/Legolas love triangle? Gone.
- Bard's kids? Gone.
- The Master of Laketown and Alfrid? Almost definitely gone.
- Radagast? Probably very trimmed down.
- Bad attempts at comedy? Out.
- The battle with Smaug in the forges of Erebor? See ya.
- Barrel escape? More like "pleasant barrel drift completely without drama."
- The day-time orc chase near Rivendell? Goodbye.
- Frodo in the bookends? Adios, precious
- Goblin Town? Barely.
- Stone Giants? Noooope.
- As well, a lot of the flashbacks to the battle at the gates of Moria might be excised for story reasons, mostly to streamline things.
- Okay, so this is the big one, and the one I'm wanting the most feedback on: I'm thinking about keeping Thorin alive. I think there's a way to edit the ending of the movie so he doesn't die after the battle with Azog, and using footage from the prelude in AUJ, give an uplifting ending to make it seem like Thorin is coronated as king. His death in the film is such a moment of anticlimax, and Kili and Fili's death only exacerbates the futility of it all, I feel.
- I'm considering paring down, removing, or otherwise recontextualizing the denouement with Bilbo coming back to his home being ransacked. It seems so extraneous and kills the tone, I want to find a way to make this a lot smoother.
- I'm also going to attempt some technical changes, though I may need some help for that from people more familiar with Final Cut/After Effects and whatnot. If possible, I would like to add a slight blue glowing effect to at least Orcrist (like with Sting, though maybe to a lesser degree), as they were both made by the elven smiths of Gondolin. I'd like Glamdring to do the same, but that would cause a continuity error with the rest of the LOTR trilogy, and since Glamdring is stylistically different enough from the other two it seems like leaving that one be is a reasonable choice. Like I said, I'm not striving for absolute Tolkien purism.
- Also, I'd like to de-saturate the color-timing a little to bring it more in line with the palette of the other LOTR films.
So yeah, this is where I'm at right now. There may be more changes to come, and maybe I'll change my mind on other things after the fact, who knows? But I'm eager to get to work! Comments, questions, and arguments are most welcome.
I'd agree with most of the rest.
Also, if you're talking about a good running time, are you shooting for 3 hours?
I think I'll leave most of the stuff in there about Thorin, though trimming some of it for time. There's a lot of stuff in the DoS:EE that has more Moria stuff, and it kinda drags. I don't know yet about all that, but I'm pretty sure a good bit of it will remain, even if it gets shuffled around or thinned out a little.
Again, I'm not trying to strongly hew to any other canon than the LOTR films. The Stone Giants scene goes on forever and means almost nothing in the narrative. I'll consider what's important, probably over and over again, but right now I'm leaning to cutting it.
Unless that's what you were going for.
Three hours would be great. I'm not sure how cohesive it would feel at that length, it's just going to be one of those things where I'll have to see where I am when I think the first cut is done.
Including the Extended Editions, there's over eight and a half hours of film to whittle down, so even getting that to 4 hours might be a chore. But yes, to answer your question, somewhere between 3 and 4 hours would be ideal. Anything more than that would need an intermission.
Yeah, Kili is gonna take a hit, unfortunately, but hopefully the shorter running time will lessen the sting. He'll still have his scenes with the trolls and I'm putting in his EE scenes at Rivendell, plus keeping the exchange between him and Tauriel when she jails him because it's one of the few attempts at comedy that lands in the film.
The good news for Kili is that I might not kill him. So he has that going for him.
Gone.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I forgot he was in the film.
No sorrow here.
The durability of the heroes in Tolkien strained even my youthful suspension of disbelief as a child when I was reading the books. Removing the ones that canonically die off seems like wishful thinking.
There may be a little of him in the scene were Thorin and company are outed and plead their case to the people of Laketown, but other than that, yes, duder is bye-bye.
I understand what you're saying, but I feel that at least Thorin's death just kills any goodwill the movie had going for it. It sours the ending, and the ending was already kinda downcast and grim.
Kili and Fili I'm less determined to save, but the movie kills them off in such a poorly-conceived way (especially Fili), it's hard to justify keeping that in when I don't have to.
I'll take a look, but just when considering extraneous things to cut the running time, that's an easy one.
Also, Fili, Kili and Thorin all die in the book. It's pretty important as the entire line gets wiped out so that Dain becomes King.
I get pairing down the film because it probably could be 1.5 movies instead of three, but this just seems kinda bonkers.
In the book they died offscreen (off-page?), and Bilbo is brought back from the battlefield only just in time to hear Thorin's last words.