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[WAR] Warhammer Online - Paul Barnett: Chaos God of Shades
I like the Order/Chaos idea, but what about fluff faction disputes, such as that between High Elves and Dwarves? Chaos and...well...Chaos? Dark Elves and everyone? (except Slaanesh where valid).
And rumor has it that Skaven are the "NPC" class in the game, basically selling stuff and giving out quests. How is this not a crime against humanity? Skaven are one of the best armies in the game, if not one of the most stylistic, and they are relegated to "!" status?
Yeah, so Lizardmen will never get a real shake, though Vampire Counts MAY be able to be developed successfully, but why no Bretonnia? Because everyone would be fighting from horseback?
There are more races and classes than they are allowing into this, and it's hard for me to get worked up over WAR when it seems they are limiting the game to so much. 6 races, 4 classes a piece? Christ, even Blizz has more sense than that.
And with that, I kill myself for mentioning Blizz in a favorable light. SS to follow.
Cheers,
Z
To be fair, they are designing a game around faction based combat with 3-4 different factions, all with different classes. That requires a bit more playtesting than 'Good vs. Evil, lawl'
I like the Order/Chaos idea, but what about fluff faction disputes, such as that between High Elves and Dwarves? Chaos and...well...Chaos? Dark Elves and everyone? (except Slaanesh where valid).
And rumor has it that Skaven are the "NPC" class in the game, basically selling stuff and giving out quests. How is this not a crime against humanity? Skaven are one of the best armies in the game, if not one of the most stylistic, and they are relegated to "!" status?
Yeah, so Lizardmen will never get a real shake, though Vampire Counts MAY be able to be developed successfully, but why no Bretonnia? Because everyone would be fighting from horseback?
There are more races and classes than they are allowing into this, and it's hard for me to get worked up over WAR when it seems they are limiting the game to so much. 6 races, 4 classes a piece? Christ, even Blizz has more sense than that.
And with that, I kill myself for mentioning Blizz in a favorable light. SS to follow.
Cheers,
Z
/sigh
read a bit about the game before you go all doom and gloom.
the designers have said that they are starting with 2 "sides" and 6 factions (he/de/empire/chaos/ork/dwarf), each with unique classes.
This on its own as it has been said by spawnbroker, is a bitch to get the balance down. They have said that other factions will be introduced in future expansions.
Did you honestly expect this game to come out with every faction represented at launch, each with unique classes and an open war mechanic that would directly emulate the fluff? The game would launch sometime in 2015 at that rate.
Skaven are the "kill PCs" variety of NPC, rather than "give quests and sell shit" type. Somewhere there's a group of them... referenced in the Chaos area, maybe? I don't remember. Hell Pit would make sense as a dungeon/instance near Chaos-controlled territory up north.
There's also talk of well-represented animosity within the alliances. At PAX last year, I certainly saw plenty of captured elf banners inside Karak Kadrin. I wouldn't be surprised to see quest restrictions and different dialog based on race... not to mention the animosity already forming between elf and stunty players on various websites. Who needs mechanics?
The last I heard of Skaven was that the devs really really REALLY want to make them playable in the first expansion, I have no idea where this questgiver rumour came from.
What I'm wishing could be the case in terms of an expansion is them expanding into Lustria and adding in Lizardmen and Tomb Kings. The Tomb Kings are much more interesting than the Vampire Counts I'd say, rather than the typical undead they have the whole Egyptian Sorcerer-King theme going on. It's more intriguing I think
Vampire Counts would be a lot easier to fit into the game, though, especially if Mythic added some sort of "freelancer realm". Imagine add-on realms that sat within existing structures of the game, allied with no side, but with no home realm. Basically neutral characters who can associate to one side or another.
You could pretty easily do vampires and necromancers like this, especially if they had some sort of "outing" method that would force them to flee from one side to the other on a limited basis.
Vampire Counts would be a lot easier to fit into the game, though, especially if Mythic added some sort of "freelancer realm". Imagine add-on realms that sat within existing structures of the game, allied with no side, but with no home realm. Basically neutral characters who can associate to one side or another.
You could pretty easily do vampires and necromancers like this, especially if they had some sort of "outing" method that would force them to flee from one side to the other on a limited basis.
Dogs of War and Ogres could work similarly.
And what would stop people from picking this faction en masse?
Vampire Counts would be a lot easier to fit into the game, though, especially if Mythic added some sort of "freelancer realm". Imagine add-on realms that sat within existing structures of the game, allied with no side, but with no home realm. Basically neutral characters who can associate to one side or another.
You could pretty easily do vampires and necromancers like this, especially if they had some sort of "outing" method that would force them to flee from one side to the other on a limited basis.
Dogs of War and Ogres could work similarly.
And what would stop people from picking this faction en masse?
Ever seen a female Blood Dragon or necromancer? Neither have I.
The real answer, is of course, that I'm not a developer and don't think of these things.
Vampire Counts would be a lot easier to fit into the game, though, especially if Mythic added some sort of "freelancer realm". Imagine add-on realms that sat within existing structures of the game, allied with no side, but with no home realm. Basically neutral characters who can associate to one side or another.
You could pretty easily do vampires and necromancers like this, especially if they had some sort of "outing" method that would force them to flee from one side to the other on a limited basis.
Dogs of War and Ogres could work similarly.
And what would stop people from picking this faction en masse?
Ever seen a female Blood Dragon or necromancer? Neither have I.
The real answer, is of course, that I'm not a developer and don't think of these things.
Neither am I, I just have an unhealthy interest in all things MMO. :P
Neither am I, I just have an unhealthy interest in all things MMO. :P
So, do you think it could be possible to have a neutral or mercenary Realm and maintain any sort of balance? Or if, for example, Ogre Kingdoms were included, would the type of person who plays ogres gravitate toward Destruction and unbalance things?
Neither am I, I just have an unhealthy interest in all things MMO. :P
So, do you think it could be possible to have a neutral or mercenary Realm and maintain any sort of balance? Or if, for example, Ogre Kingdoms were included, would the type of person who plays ogres gravitate toward Destruction and unbalance things?
As long as the mercenary Realm isn't ten kinds of awesome, it could work. Or if it is hard to play like a mercenary, like, you miss out on a safe haven or you have the constant doubt whether your current employer isn't going to backstab you once you aren't needed. I know very little about the Warhammer lore, so I wouldn't know.
As long as you aren't as completely awesome and overpowered as you were as a jedi in Starwars Galaxies, a lot of people will probably say "meh, I'll just play an Ork and don't bother with all this foggy shit"
Rule of thumb: If one race/class is cooler than another race/class in the eyes of gamers, things will become unbalanced. See: Alliance in WoW.
Neither am I, I just have an unhealthy interest in all things MMO. :P
So, do you think it could be possible to have a neutral or mercenary Realm and maintain any sort of balance? Or if, for example, Ogre Kingdoms were included, would the type of person who plays ogres gravitate toward Destruction and unbalance things?
As long as the mercenary Realm isn't ten kinds of awesome, it could work. Or if it is hard to play like a mercenary, like, you miss out on a safe haven or you have the constant doubt whether your current employer isn't going to backstab you once you aren't needed. I know very little about the Warhammer lore, so I wouldn't know.
As long as you aren't as completely awesome and overpowered as you were as a jedi in Starwars Galaxies, a lot of people will probably say "meh, I'll just play an Ork and don't bother with all this foggy shit"
Rule of thumb: If one race/class is sexier than another race/class in the eyes of teenagers, things will become unbalanced. See: Alliance in WoW.
Since when is there a difference between gamers and teenagers?
My wife's not a teenager and she played Alliance in WoW 'cause Night Elves had "shiny" and or "stabby" elf chicks. The teen theory is flawed, barring critique on her taste in gaming.
In truth, I doubt trying to manipulate the community one way or another is or could be successful. The "good guys" will always have a few more and "cool stuff" will draw people as well. Also, straight spines and boobs. I don't think this fundamental formula can be changed or tweaked in any other direction.
A mercenary Realm would have to account for possible imbalances. Perhaps by offering better rewards to the underdogs (fight for X faction, gain Y money!).
Personally I always figured that if there's going to be an imbalance, it's going to be in favor of the Greenskins. Between the rabid Warhammer fans who love them and the people enticed by the undeniable charm of their personality, I expect them to have a fairly massive playerbase. I HOPE things will end up roughly balanced though.
I have some bizzare questions:
When you play your charater and level up in the world does the charater change?
I might get it and play a Chaos Magus in being a pawn of Tzeentch they become his champions in the game i.e wearing plate and casting spells does this conscept transfer over to the game?
When you choose a side can you play more than just a chaos magus? because looking at the pics there is a real reason to play a Orc.
Ok I had read the Mythic page on WAR long after I posted.
Some of the questions I had that were not covered were:
Is it just one large world with long travel times? What I meant is like WOW how big the zones are in the world/content.
Because I know of the Realm VS Realm content but if you want to help some orcs kill the dwarfs or vice versa how would you get from wherever you are to there?
On the tabletop Magus' wear Chaos Armor it counts as Plate but you can cast spells while wearing it
Or Tzeentch champions count both as a Champion and magic unit
Since they did not give a description for the rest of the chaos I will wait and see
Ok I had read the Mythic page on WAR long after I posted.
Some of the questions I had that were not covered were:
Is it just one large world with long travel times? What I meant is like WOW how big the zones are in the world/content.
Because I know of the Realm VS Realm content but if you want to help some orcs kill the dwarfs or vice versa how would you get from wherever you are to there?
I can't speak to the relative size, but the most recent press coverage on the main sight links to a gamedaily article. It reads:
"Unlike some other MMO games, players do not need to visit an area before being able to take public transportation to the destination. Simply put, 'people don't have to walk to New York before they can buy a plane ticket there.'"
Ok I had read the Mythic page on WAR long after I posted.
Some of the questions I had that were not covered were:
Is it just one large world with long travel times? What I meant is like WOW how big the zones are in the world/content.
Because I know of the Realm VS Realm content but if you want to help some orcs kill the dwarfs or vice versa how would you get from wherever you are to there?
I can't speak to the relative size, but the most recent press coverage on the main sight links to a gamedaily article. It reads:
"Unlike some other MMO games, players do not need to visit an area before being able to take public transportation to the destination. Simply put, 'people don't have to walk to New York before they can buy a plane ticket there.'"
Also, the various regions are chunks of the Warhammer world, rather than the whole thing. Imagine if WoW consisted of areas like Ironforge-Undercity, expanded to include all content in those "hot zones" between.
Large swathes of the Old World and beyond won't be seen on release.
Large swathes of the Old World and beyond won't be seen on release.
...and this is a good thing!!!
I think one of the biggest mistakes the WoW developers did was make the entire world of Azeroth available on release. Leaves no room for expansions besides 'aliens and other dimensions, lawl!'
I think one of the biggest mistakes the WoW developers did was make the entire world of Azeroth available on release. Leaves no room for expansions besides 'aliens and other dimensions, lawl!'
I think one of the biggest mistakes the WoW developers did was make the entire world of Azeroth available on release. Leaves no room for expansions besides 'aliens and other dimensions, lawl!'
Hello Northrend?
The map doesn't match up, though, does it? Couldn't the Warcraft world have continents on the other side? Also, why the fuck are we talking about Warcraft. Goddamn Blizzard.
In any case, I think having a larger-but-focused world is the way to go. Something like City of Heroes (or even SWG) always felt a lot more "real" or immersive to me than WoW, which felt like a Disney or toy version of a world; especially going from Forestland to Autumnland to Evilland (or the like).
I think one of the biggest mistakes the WoW developers did was make the entire world of Azeroth available on release. Leaves no room for expansions besides 'aliens and other dimensions, lawl!'
Hello Northrend?
The map doesn't match up, though, does it? Couldn't the Warcraft world have continents on the other side? Also, why the fuck are we talking about Warcraft. Goddamn Blizzard.
In any case, I think having a larger-but-focused world is the way to go. Something like City of Heroes (or even SWG) always felt a lot more "real" or immersive to me than WoW, which felt like a Disney or toy version of a world; especially going from Forestland to Autumnland to Evilland (or the like).
I was pointing out that your analogy failed. ^^
The size of areas in WoW was fucked up anyway, the Barrens was a gigantic place in Warcraft III, now you cross it in like 10 minutes, for example.
Anyway, I agree that a larger-but-focused world would be much better, I often had that Disney feeling you describe.
One thing I noticed at PAX last year is that the WAR environment most definitely does NOT fall into the WoW/Disney category. Though the environments are stylized, they feel like WoW at five times the size and detail. It doesn't really come through in the screens, but the orc starting area is really pretty large, especially vertically. Hills are hills and trees aren't cutesy little decorations.
Short of the trackless wastes of SWG, but certainly a lot more impressive than other games.
One thing I noticed at PAX last year is that the WAR environment most definitely does NOT fall into the WoW/Disney category. Though the environments are stylized, they feel like WoW at five times the size and detail. It doesn't really come through in the screens, but the orc starting area is really pretty large, especially vertically. Hills are hills and trees aren't cutesy little decorations.
Short of the trackless wastes of SWG, but certainly a lot more impressive than other games.
I don't really care if it's large in comparison with WoW, but I do care about the content. I don't want five minutes of awe that costs me hours of auto-run agony. (I realize you can fly places without having been there, but I'm talking about those "in-between" points.) The way this is rolling out, though, it doesn't appear we'll have too many elementary design issues like vast spaces without content. *crosses fingers* I guess I'm far more concerned with the "focused" part than the "larger" part.
It seemed fairly dense when I played. Not a lot of random wandering mobs, but there were "pockets" of unique areas in the greenskin area. The orc and gobbo camp, a human bandit camp, a wood full of weird little mutant things, the orc lumber camp, then the PvP area.
'Course, one zone doesn't define the game, but it felt polished.
Yet another question
This was not asked by me though
In the Tier zones can I go from Tier 4 back to Tier one to impress or harass people?
Also can I go outside the R vs R ememy zone to explore thier zone?
A funny thing is that someone I know of that felt paying to play a online game was a waste.
He was cussing about how he might break down and play one; This one.
Yet another question
This was not asked by me though
In the Tier zones can I go from Tier 4 back to Tier one to impress or harass people?
harassing will be made difficult, if not impossible. That's all I know.
Also can I go outside the R vs R ememy zone to explore thier zone?
I suppose we'll have to wait for a beta test for this one, but it seems logical to allow this.[/quote]
A funny thing is that someone I know of that felt paying to play a online game was a waste.
He was cussing about how he might break down and play one; This one.
It seemed fairly dense when I played. Not a lot of random wandering mobs, but there were "pockets" of unique areas in the greenskin area. The orc and gobbo camp, a human bandit camp, a wood full of weird little mutant things, the orc lumber camp, then the PvP area.
'Course, one zone doesn't define the game, but it felt polished.
You... you played? I must become you somehow. I'll be watching Freaky Friday all weekend for clues regarding the method.
Constant wandering mobs are not required. The general atmosphere must be logically and sufficiently populated so that the player never notices the presence or absence of content. Total life emulation is not the ultimate end goal of an MMO, but in this case I've found it has a large impact on my ability to enjoy the game in question.
PAX is there and I am here. Getting there from here would require me to travel then, and I work both now and then.
I'd love to go, though. Someday I will. Hopefully next year I'll be too obsessed with WAR to take that much time away from my computer, though, (and not because it just came out the week before).
Constant wandering mobs are not required. The general atmosphere must be logically and sufficiently populated so that the player never notices the presence or absence of content. Total life emulation is not the ultimate end goal of an MMO, but in this case I've found it has a large impact on my ability to enjoy the game in question.
I agree. What I really hate about some MMO's is how "pasturized" the mobs seemed. Like that was the ent pasture where ents wandered around like cattle waiting for the slaughter or in that cave kobolds just wander around to be killed and respawned. I want mobs that have a clear and evident reason for populating a region. They need bases of operations, guard towers and patrols. Monsters need dens and caves to take their kills. When every area of the map except for the innermost city is just crawling with a mob infestation it definently makes it less realistic and intriguing.
Holy crap I completely forgot about this game and the Six Mouths and damnit I wish the beta had started already.
Don't worry, we haven't forgotten about YOU
This is true.
Muwahahahah.
For those cool enough to go to PAX, we should arrange a Six Mouths thing. I'll buy a round for you guys. And Mythic will certainly be there again; I plan on pissing my wife and PAX-goers off again by playing for as long as possible.
Posts
To be fair, they are designing a game around faction based combat with 3-4 different factions, all with different classes. That requires a bit more playtesting than 'Good vs. Evil, lawl'
/sigh
read a bit about the game before you go all doom and gloom.
the designers have said that they are starting with 2 "sides" and 6 factions (he/de/empire/chaos/ork/dwarf), each with unique classes.
This on its own as it has been said by spawnbroker, is a bitch to get the balance down. They have said that other factions will be introduced in future expansions.
Did you honestly expect this game to come out with every faction represented at launch, each with unique classes and an open war mechanic that would directly emulate the fluff? The game would launch sometime in 2015 at that rate.
ill be waiting for the suicide pics.
There's also talk of well-represented animosity within the alliances. At PAX last year, I certainly saw plenty of captured elf banners inside Karak Kadrin. I wouldn't be surprised to see quest restrictions and different dialog based on race... not to mention the animosity already forming between elf and stunty players on various websites. Who needs mechanics?
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
You could pretty easily do vampires and necromancers like this, especially if they had some sort of "outing" method that would force them to flee from one side to the other on a limited basis.
Dogs of War and Ogres could work similarly.
Ever seen a female Blood Dragon or necromancer? Neither have I.
The real answer, is of course, that I'm not a developer and don't think of these things.
Neither am I, I just have an unhealthy interest in all things MMO. :P
So, do you think it could be possible to have a neutral or mercenary Realm and maintain any sort of balance? Or if, for example, Ogre Kingdoms were included, would the type of person who plays ogres gravitate toward Destruction and unbalance things?
As long as the mercenary Realm isn't ten kinds of awesome, it could work. Or if it is hard to play like a mercenary, like, you miss out on a safe haven or you have the constant doubt whether your current employer isn't going to backstab you once you aren't needed. I know very little about the Warhammer lore, so I wouldn't know.
As long as you aren't as completely awesome and overpowered as you were as a jedi in Starwars Galaxies, a lot of people will probably say "meh, I'll just play an Ork and don't bother with all this foggy shit"
Rule of thumb: If one race/class is cooler than another race/class in the eyes of gamers, things will become unbalanced. See: Alliance in WoW.
Fix'd
My wife's not a teenager and she played Alliance in WoW 'cause Night Elves had "shiny" and or "stabby" elf chicks. The teen theory is flawed, barring critique on her taste in gaming.
In truth, I doubt trying to manipulate the community one way or another is or could be successful. The "good guys" will always have a few more and "cool stuff" will draw people as well. Also, straight spines and boobs. I don't think this fundamental formula can be changed or tweaked in any other direction.
A mercenary Realm would have to account for possible imbalances. Perhaps by offering better rewards to the underdogs (fight for X faction, gain Y money!).
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
also, that engineer looks awesome.
Something I accounted for in my prediction, as I'm sure you noticed.
Also, those screenshots are smexy. Bright Wizards are terrifyingly pyro looking, I'm glad I'm going Empire when this game comes out.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
When you play your charater and level up in the world does the charater change?
I might get it and play a Chaos Magus in being a pawn of Tzeentch they become his champions in the game i.e wearing plate and casting spells does this conscept transfer over to the game?
When you choose a side can you play more than just a chaos magus? because looking at the pics there is a real reason to play a Orc.
Some of the questions I had that were not covered were:
Is it just one large world with long travel times? What I meant is like WOW how big the zones are in the world/content.
Because I know of the Realm VS Realm content but if you want to help some orcs kill the dwarfs or vice versa how would you get from wherever you are to there?
On the tabletop Magus' wear Chaos Armor it counts as Plate but you can cast spells while wearing it
Or Tzeentch champions count both as a Champion and magic unit
Since they did not give a description for the rest of the chaos I will wait and see
I'm tempted to play an engineer now just to swing around a pipe wrench. WANT GAME NOW!
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
"Unlike some other MMO games, players do not need to visit an area before being able to take public transportation to the destination. Simply put, 'people don't have to walk to New York before they can buy a plane ticket there.'"
Also, the various regions are chunks of the Warhammer world, rather than the whole thing. Imagine if WoW consisted of areas like Ironforge-Undercity, expanded to include all content in those "hot zones" between.
Large swathes of the Old World and beyond won't be seen on release.
...and this is a good thing!!!
I think one of the biggest mistakes the WoW developers did was make the entire world of Azeroth available on release. Leaves no room for expansions besides 'aliens and other dimensions, lawl!'
The map doesn't match up, though, does it? Couldn't the Warcraft world have continents on the other side? Also, why the fuck are we talking about Warcraft. Goddamn Blizzard.
In any case, I think having a larger-but-focused world is the way to go. Something like City of Heroes (or even SWG) always felt a lot more "real" or immersive to me than WoW, which felt like a Disney or toy version of a world; especially going from Forestland to Autumnland to Evilland (or the like).
I was pointing out that your analogy failed. ^^
The size of areas in WoW was fucked up anyway, the Barrens was a gigantic place in Warcraft III, now you cross it in like 10 minutes, for example.
Anyway, I agree that a larger-but-focused world would be much better, I often had that Disney feeling you describe.
Short of the trackless wastes of SWG, but certainly a lot more impressive than other games.
'Course, one zone doesn't define the game, but it felt polished.
This was not asked by me though
In the Tier zones can I go from Tier 4 back to Tier one to impress or harass people?
Also can I go outside the R vs R ememy zone to explore thier zone?
A funny thing is that someone I know of that felt paying to play a online game was a waste.
He was cussing about how he might break down and play one; This one.
Constant wandering mobs are not required. The general atmosphere must be logically and sufficiently populated so that the player never notices the presence or absence of content. Total life emulation is not the ultimate end goal of an MMO, but in this case I've found it has a large impact on my ability to enjoy the game in question.
I'd love to go, though. Someday I will. Hopefully next year I'll be too obsessed with WAR to take that much time away from my computer, though, (and not because it just came out the week before).
Don't worry, we haven't forgotten about YOU
I agree. What I really hate about some MMO's is how "pasturized" the mobs seemed. Like that was the ent pasture where ents wandered around like cattle waiting for the slaughter or in that cave kobolds just wander around to be killed and respawned. I want mobs that have a clear and evident reason for populating a region. They need bases of operations, guard towers and patrols. Monsters need dens and caves to take their kills. When every area of the map except for the innermost city is just crawling with a mob infestation it definently makes it less realistic and intriguing.
This is true.
Muwahahahah.
For those cool enough to go to PAX, we should arrange a Six Mouths thing. I'll buy a round for you guys. And Mythic will certainly be there again; I plan on pissing my wife and PAX-goers off again by playing for as long as possible.
I dunno, Chaos just has that whole "heralds of the apocalypse" thing going on which is just so cool.