Schumacher only came into the picture in the third and fourth movies. Burton was effectively side-lined by some executives toward's the end of the second movie's development. By the time the third movie rolled around he was a producer in name only, and apparently had very little influence, if any at all, on the project.
By the time the fourth one was around, he wasn't even brought on board for the project. Which is a good thing, because the fourth movie was a horrible mess that essentially killed the franchise until the Nolan reboot came along.
It's an interesting case of executive meddling, because Schumacher essentially got side-lined and forced to do what the executives that were funding the project wanted too.
Schumacher has gone on record as saying that his original pitch was essentially a live action recreation of Year One. But the execs wanted something that would more appeal to kids, rather then potentially terrify and traumautize them, so the last two movies went more "Adam West's Silver Age", rather then "The Nightmare Before Christmas meets Batman" that the Burton films seemed to be aesthetically.
You have the rosiest glasses I've ever seen.
You make it sound like the faceless, evil Suits ruined the Batman franchise. Burton just doesn't understand comics and Shumacher was a window dresser turned director. He's much better suited for films like The Phantom of the Opera than something like Batman.
Schumacher only came into the picture in the third and fourth movies. Burton was effectively side-lined by some executives toward's the end of the second movie's development. By the time the third movie rolled around he was a producer in name only, and apparently had very little influence, if any at all, on the project.
By the time the fourth one was around, he wasn't even brought on board for the project. Which is a good thing, because the fourth movie was a horrible mess that essentially killed the franchise until the Nolan reboot came along.
It's an interesting case of executive meddling, because Schumacher essentially got side-lined and forced to do what the executives that were funding the project wanted too.
Schumacher has gone on record as saying that his original pitch was essentially a live action recreation of Year One. But the execs wanted something that would more appeal to kids, rather then potentially terrify and traumautize them, so the last two movies went more "Adam West's Silver Age", rather then "The Nightmare Before Christmas meets Batman" that the Burton films seemed to be aesthetically.
You have the rosiest glasses I've ever seen.
You make it sound like the faceless, evil Suits ruined the Batman franchise. Burton just doesn't understand comics and Shumacher was a window dresser turned director. He's much better suited for films like The Phantom of the Opera than something like Batman.
I didn't say I believed it. Just what alot of reports say.
For what it's worth, I believe the Year One thing is up on the net somewhere.
Schumacher was hardly window dressing, too. The guy was the director for movies like "The Lost Boys" before he signed on to the Batman series of films.
You know, that movie that "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", and god knows how many other 90's/80's shows/movies ripped off the facial design, and in some cases, concept of vampires from.
Right, he also directed Falling Down which is a great flick the same as The Lost Boys is, but when you consider his background/beginnings in costume design and fashion, it certainly offers reasoning for where the Batman franchise went.
I can think of few other directors that would have included not one but two appearances of the neon/blacklight gangs.
Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
0
Options
ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Right, he also directed Falling Down which is a great flick the same as The Lost Boys is, but when you consider his background/beginnings in costume design and fashion, it certainly offers reasoning for where the Batman franchise went.
I can think of few other directors that would have included not one but two appearances of the neon/blacklight gangs.
I never managed to see Falling Down. But I don't think it'd possibly explain the weird shit that cropped up in the last Batman film, like the gender specific Bat Nipples. Or the horrible usage of cliche tropes that kept popping up.
I think the former was just a general failure on the part of whoever was running costuming. You can't tell me the new bat-suits were a conscious choice on the part of someone who made some of the movies the guy did.
Is pretty fucking unbelievable unless you assume something kneecapped the guy in charge.
The issues with the script are on Schumacher to some extent, though, regardless of what he says.
I can excuse the bizarre Adam West style aesthetics, or the (Goddamn Bat Nipples!) weird crap that kept popping up. But the guy should have been on top of the script and pushed harder to have revisions made it to it.
Then again, the script apparently wasn't even the script he wanted to do, if you believe him. So who knows what the hell was going on there.
The only reason Batman doesn't kill on a regular basis is because of the fucking Comics Code Authority and how it neutered pretty much any real violence in comics starting in the 50's. Batman carried and used a gun in his original inception. He was just a straight up vigilante. If anything, the movies are returning him to who he really is.
You realise Batman stopped using guns more than 10 years before the CCA came into effect, right? He used it for like a year and then they got rid of it. Every hero has been changed and adapted throughout the decades so the idea that they should return him to 'who he really is' is ridiculous. Superman would lose his ability to fly, he'd just have to jump everywhere. And Batman would be called 'the Bat-Man'.
AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
The fourth Batman movie, Batman and Robin, is a masterpiece, assuming you view it as something intentionally trying to top its own ridiculousness with every successive scene. This is a movie which starts with a hockey game using a comically large diamond as a puck in a museum, moves to a rocket ship, and then to skydiving on a makeshift surfboard. Later a woman charms high society by taking off a pink gorilla suit. A blue man spends the entire movie making ice puns. It's gloriously silly, and a highly entertaining two hours if you watch it with the right frame of mind.
Do we have any confirmed news about the 3rd nolan movie?
I have heard riddler, which could in fact be interesting as hell, especially if they make the riddler a serial killer as opposed to just a fancy thief.
But as to which batman I like - I personally like nolans, he is just a rich dude trying to stop crime, and he has to make hard, shitty choices that effect him as a person. Best however is the Arkham Asylum Batman
Burton's felt too batshit insane, and the less said about the idiocy of batman and robin etc the better.
I am sure if you got 100 people in a room, they would all like a different batman.
I think secretly everyone likes ALL the batmans but we all choose a FAVORITE, because all the batmans are pretty awesome in their own way. Burton made batman that weird and odd world stand out that Gotham really is, while the newer ones give us the backround stories and all that jazz.
The new one yeah I heard that too about the riddler, and what I hear from people is that: "Oh the riddler is awesome" No thats the thing, the concept of the riddler is awesome, its all about how they do it.
Do we have any confirmed news about the 3rd nolan movie?
I have heard riddler, which could in fact be interesting as hell, especially if they make the riddler a serial killer as opposed to just a fancy thief.
But as to which batman I like - I personally like nolans, he is just a rich dude trying to stop crime, and he has to make hard, shitty choices that effect him as a person. Best however is the Arkham Asylum Batman
Burton's felt too batshit insane, and the less said about the idiocy of batman and robin etc the better.
I am sure if you got 100 people in a room, they would all like a different batman.
Nolan confirmed the villain isn't the Riddler. We do know the title is called The Dark Knight Rises and it's going to be the final movie.
On the rumor mill, it's been said that Eva Green and Naomi Watts have been cast in the film as Talia al Ghul and Vicki Vale respectively. There is absolutely no confirmation on this, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
The thing I hate about Returns is that it made Catwoman and Penguin raving psychos when they're among the few Batman villains that arean't actually crazy. There's a reason they're never commited to Arkham in the comics, they go to regular prison because they're just crooks with gimmicks, not insane.
I also hated how in Forever, Riddler and Two-Face were basically just Joker 2 and Joker 3. And the less said about how bad Freeze, Ivy, and Bane got it, the better.
Basically, out of those four Batman movies, the only villain that wasn't either grossly out of character or just plain terrible was Joker.
The thing I hate about Returns is that it made Catwoman and Penguin raving psychos when they're among the few Batman villains that arean't actually crazy. There's a reason they're never commited to Arkham in the comics, they go to regular prison because they're just crooks with gimmicks, not insane.
I also hated how in Forever, Riddler and Two-Face were basically just Joker 2 and Joker 3. And the less said about how bad Freeze, Ivy, and Bane got it, the better.
Basically, out of those four Batman movies, the only villain that wasn't either grossly out of character or just plain terrible was Joker.
Well it's not like Two-Face and Riddler aren't insane. But they were written as these loony wackos, all prancing around and shit. Doesn't fit either of them. What I hated the most was how they had Harvey flip his coin, and then flip it over and over again until he got the result that he wanted, completely undermining the whole point of his fucking character's inability to decide things for himself.
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
But neither comics Catwoman or Penguin had origins as demented as the ones Burton gave them. I felt they worked perfectly with the tone he set for both of them.
I understand anyone who says, "That isn't my prefered take on Batman and his universe." That's cool, I can accept that.
But if you can sit back and relax like you would with an Elseworlds, or Earth-Burton setting, I think you'll find that Batman is pretty good (has a little too much goofy 80's stuff, like PRINCE, IIRC) and that Batman Returns is really great.
Keaton, Pfieffer, DeVito, and Walken! Seriously absurd and wonderful performances here.
And the third Batman film would've had Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face! Marlon Wayans as Robin! Fucking Warner Bros destroyed an epic in the making!
I can take Penguin being made into a psycho, but that portrayal of Catwoman was all kinds of awful. Oh, look at me, I lick myself and eat birds and have nine lives for some reason. No thanks, give me the sane theif who likes to play cat & mouse with Batman any day over that tripe.
While I don't think they're honest-to-goodness good films like the Nolan films, there are little touches about the first four Batman films I like; yes, even the later two. Just little touches.
I think Catwoman in particular was done pretty excellently. I think Returns is easily the most enjoyable out of those four.
It was reported recently about a bunch of actresses trying out for an unspecified role in the new Batman film, with rumors pointing to Catwoman or Talia. One of the actresses specified was Anne Hathaway. I have been saying "Hathaway should be Catwoman" since I saw Begins back when it opened. That would be nice.
UnbreakableVow on
0
Options
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
Man just when I thought I had removed the previous Batfilms from my mind, this thread has to find them back. I guess....
I'm like the only person in the world that dislikes the Nolan Batman movies.
I was half-sleeping through the last half of Dark Knight.
True Story.
And I'm not kidding.
Then again I have always that problem in movies/books where 90% of the dialouge is really lame exposition.
Don't get me wrong. They are surley still good movies. But ones I never could get into.
Also I never got how people said they are so close to the comics.
I liked The Animated Series (And Batman Beyond past that)... I think Paul Dini's universe best captured a balance between over the top and slightly more restrained storylines.
And I agree with who ever said it above, the Arkham Asylum video game was probably the best realization of this batman.
The 80s/90s Batmans were just too over the top and the Nolan Batmans just sucked the joy out of Batman.
But neither comics Catwoman or Penguin had origins as demented as the ones Burton gave them. I felt they worked perfectly with the tone he set for both of them.
I understand anyone who says, "That isn't my prefered take on Batman and his universe." That's cool, I can accept that.
But if you can sit back and relax like you would with an Elseworlds, or Earth-Burton setting, I think you'll find that Batman is pretty good (has a little too much goofy 80's stuff, like PRINCE, IIRC) and that Batman Returns is really great.
Keaton, Pfieffer, DeVito, and Walken! Seriously absurd and wonderful performances here.
And the third Batman film would've had Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face! Marlon Wayans as Robin! Fucking Warner Bros destroyed an epic in the making!
I guess that's my issue with the Burton films - I prefer Batman when he isn't absurd. Or rather as non-absurd as you can be given that its a man in a bat costume.
I liked The Animated Series (And Batman Beyond past that)... I think Paul Dini's universe best captured a balance between over the top and slightly more restrained storylines.
And I agree with who ever said it above, the Arkham Asylum video game was probably the best realization of this batman.
The 80s/90s Batmans were just too over the top and the Nolan Batmans just sucked the joy out of Batman.
I would also agree with this. Batman TAS, then later JL/U and Batman Beyond were the closest I've seen to the 'perfect' Batman portrayal. I can handle the Nolan ones because if you are going to error to one side or the other, the non-absurd is the better of the two for me.
And AA worked as a realization of that primarily because all the people that did the storyline and character acting for AA were from TAS.
While I don't think they're honest-to-goodness good films like the Nolan films, there are little touches about the first four Batman films I like; yes, even the later two. Just little touches.
I have to admit I still think Clooney was the best Bruce Wayne. It's a shame he was placed in such a shitty version of the universe.
Personally, while I liked the Burton movies, I didn't feel that they were burton movies--I felt that they were Burton characters in Gotham. That's a big complaint I have about Burton movies, with the exception of Big Fish--they all just feel like Burton Characters rather than different characters dependent on setting.
The fourth Batman movie, Batman and Robin, is a masterpiece, assuming you view it as something intentionally trying to top its own ridiculousness with every successive scene. This is a movie which starts with a hockey game using a comically large diamond as a puck in a museum, moves to a rocket ship, and then to skydiving on a makeshift surfboard. Later a woman charms high society by taking off a pink gorilla suit. A blue man spends the entire movie making ice puns. It's gloriously silly, and a highly entertaining two hours if you watch it with the right frame of mind.
I feel the same way. I loved the camp aspect of the film. But I'm not a Batman purist. It's lunatic to think that a Batman film can be made which will appeal to comic purists and still be accessible to the public though.
Comic nerds are a most unforgiving bunch. Films need to have mass appeal to be successful.
The comic books are varied enough that you can be true to them even if you go with Adam West Batman. Batman and Robin just sucked in that camp is only good for a few minutes.
I'm like the only person in the world that dislikes the Nolan Batman movies.
I was half-sleeping through the last half of Dark Knight.
True Story.
And I'm not kidding.
Then again I have always that problem in movies/books where 90% of the dialouge is really lame exposition.
Don't get me wrong. They are surley still good movies. But ones I never could get into.
Also I never got how people said they are so close to the comics.
So you dislike the Nolan films, and also think Obsidian's games are great.
I'm like the only person in the world that dislikes the Nolan Batman movies.
I was half-sleeping through the last half of Dark Knight.
True Story.
And I'm not kidding.
Then again I have always that problem in movies/books where 90% of the dialouge is really lame exposition.
Don't get me wrong. They are surley still good movies. But ones I never could get into.
Also I never got how people said they are so close to the comics.
So you dislike the Nolan films, and also think Obsidian's games are great.
Wow. I crown you King Contrarian for life.
Armond White, that you?
I love the other for the same reasons I dislike the other. Nolan is just not that good in certain elements I personally prefer when I read/analyze a story.
Posts
Because Adam West Batman is great fun.
Seriously, that was a Looney Toons TNT pack. That's... I mean, no words.
People were satisfied with that?
Why I fear the ocean.
You have the rosiest glasses I've ever seen.
You make it sound like the faceless, evil Suits ruined the Batman franchise. Burton just doesn't understand comics and Shumacher was a window dresser turned director. He's much better suited for films like The Phantom of the Opera than something like Batman.
Same period, though I'm more of a DCAU Batman
Hmmmmm, I can't remember if I ever touched on this on an essay I wrote about the Bat Films for my language of cinema class once...
I didn't say I believed it. Just what alot of reports say.
For what it's worth, I believe the Year One thing is up on the net somewhere.
Schumacher was hardly window dressing, too. The guy was the director for movies like "The Lost Boys" before he signed on to the Batman series of films.
You know, that movie that "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", and god knows how many other 90's/80's shows/movies ripped off the facial design, and in some cases, concept of vampires from.
I can think of few other directors that would have included not one but two appearances of the neon/blacklight gangs.
I never managed to see Falling Down. But I don't think it'd possibly explain the weird shit that cropped up in the last Batman film, like the gender specific Bat Nipples. Or the horrible usage of cliche tropes that kept popping up.
I think the former was just a general failure on the part of whoever was running costuming. You can't tell me the new bat-suits were a conscious choice on the part of someone who made some of the movies the guy did.
I mean, going from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEcDuqdmy3M
To this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHNI_sbI7I&feature=related
Is pretty fucking unbelievable unless you assume something kneecapped the guy in charge.
The issues with the script are on Schumacher to some extent, though, regardless of what he says.
I can excuse the bizarre Adam West style aesthetics, or the (Goddamn Bat Nipples!) weird crap that kept popping up. But the guy should have been on top of the script and pushed harder to have revisions made it to it.
Then again, the script apparently wasn't even the script he wanted to do, if you believe him. So who knows what the hell was going on there.
Edit: TVtropes put it best:
You realise Batman stopped using guns more than 10 years before the CCA came into effect, right? He used it for like a year and then they got rid of it. Every hero has been changed and adapted throughout the decades so the idea that they should return him to 'who he really is' is ridiculous. Superman would lose his ability to fly, he'd just have to jump everywhere. And Batman would be called 'the Bat-Man'.
This is a pretty apt way to describe those movies. I hate them so much.
also in the book (I looked at it in the store) it says "he was clearly dead". I know that's not official per se but it's coming from somewhere.
aaaaaaaan it was accidental. also... if he's not dead where is he? they just let him go?
I am sure they are gonna do something with him soon, or do something with his dead body?
I have heard riddler, which could in fact be interesting as hell, especially if they make the riddler a serial killer as opposed to just a fancy thief.
But as to which batman I like - I personally like nolans, he is just a rich dude trying to stop crime, and he has to make hard, shitty choices that effect him as a person. Best however is the Arkham Asylum Batman
Burton's felt too batshit insane, and the less said about the idiocy of batman and robin etc the better.
I am sure if you got 100 people in a room, they would all like a different batman.
The new one yeah I heard that too about the riddler, and what I hear from people is that: "Oh the riddler is awesome" No thats the thing, the concept of the riddler is awesome, its all about how they do it.
Nolan confirmed the villain isn't the Riddler. We do know the title is called The Dark Knight Rises and it's going to be the final movie.
On the rumor mill, it's been said that Eva Green and Naomi Watts have been cast in the film as Talia al Ghul and Vicki Vale respectively. There is absolutely no confirmation on this, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
I also hated how in Forever, Riddler and Two-Face were basically just Joker 2 and Joker 3. And the less said about how bad Freeze, Ivy, and Bane got it, the better.
Basically, out of those four Batman movies, the only villain that wasn't either grossly out of character or just plain terrible was Joker.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I suppose your right, insanity sells
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I understand anyone who says, "That isn't my prefered take on Batman and his universe." That's cool, I can accept that.
But if you can sit back and relax like you would with an Elseworlds, or Earth-Burton setting, I think you'll find that Batman is pretty good (has a little too much goofy 80's stuff, like PRINCE, IIRC) and that Batman Returns is really great.
Keaton, Pfieffer, DeVito, and Walken! Seriously absurd and wonderful performances here.
And the third Batman film would've had Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face! Marlon Wayans as Robin! Fucking Warner Bros destroyed an epic in the making!
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
He was already in Begins
It would be nice to see him come back
I think Catwoman in particular was done pretty excellently. I think Returns is easily the most enjoyable out of those four.
It was reported recently about a bunch of actresses trying out for an unspecified role in the new Batman film, with rumors pointing to Catwoman or Talia. One of the actresses specified was Anne Hathaway. I have been saying "Hathaway should be Catwoman" since I saw Begins back when it opened. That would be nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoUpF7rvfnk
*ba-dum-tish!*
;-)
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
Pretty much this. Its Adam West, if he liked killing hobo's.
Holy Bernoulli, Batman! Quick, use the pressure-stabilizing repellent!
I was half-sleeping through the last half of Dark Knight.
True Story.
And I'm not kidding.
Then again I have always that problem in movies/books where 90% of the dialouge is really lame exposition.
Don't get me wrong. They are surley still good movies. But ones I never could get into.
Also I never got how people said they are so close to the comics.
And I agree with who ever said it above, the Arkham Asylum video game was probably the best realization of this batman.
The 80s/90s Batmans were just too over the top and the Nolan Batmans just sucked the joy out of Batman.
I'd say that's offset by portraying the Joker as Jack Nicholson in white face paint :P
I guess that's my issue with the Burton films - I prefer Batman when he isn't absurd. Or rather as non-absurd as you can be given that its a man in a bat costume.
I would also agree with this. Batman TAS, then later JL/U and Batman Beyond were the closest I've seen to the 'perfect' Batman portrayal. I can handle the Nolan ones because if you are going to error to one side or the other, the non-absurd is the better of the two for me.
And AA worked as a realization of that primarily because all the people that did the storyline and character acting for AA were from TAS.
Made the post, hit reply, went to play some games, came back, window still present without being posted.
Clicked submit again. Voila! Yay time delays.
I have to admit I still think Clooney was the best Bruce Wayne. It's a shame he was placed in such a shitty version of the universe.
I feel the same way. I loved the camp aspect of the film. But I'm not a Batman purist. It's lunatic to think that a Batman film can be made which will appeal to comic purists and still be accessible to the public though.
Comic nerds are a most unforgiving bunch. Films need to have mass appeal to be successful.
Maybe.
Hell, Begins is about as close to Year One as we're ever going to get on the big screen.
And yet there is still much complaining about them.
They're popular films.
People on the internet will always bitch about things. Especially popular things.
Always
So you dislike the Nolan films, and also think Obsidian's games are great.
Wow. I crown you King Contrarian for life.
I love the other for the same reasons I dislike the other. Nolan is just not that good in certain elements I personally prefer when I read/analyze a story.
For example charachter writing/motivation.
But, for loves sake. Let's call me a contrarian.
I can live with that.
Edit: I love the structure though. It's awesome.