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[FRINGE] Reality be fragmenting at the seams

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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's really stretching it into an 'advantage' (if it even happened, I don't recall that, but you could very well be correct). Her biggest advantage was Olivia kissing Peter right before the switch I'd say.

    It was deliberate. They deliberately used U2 throughout her entire visit over here. It was clearly an advantage to be able to talk to Peter about shit that she didn't know.

    In the first episode with her on this side, she gets the giant file on our world, and she opens it to the page on BONO. I believe she actually asks "Who's Bono?".

    Then the next episode she's looking up U2 on something.

    The episode where she's in the bed with Peter she is getting up and Peter gives HER U2 tickets (I looked again, he gives them to her because shes been into them lately).

    And now we find out she used a U2 lyric as a password.

    It's nothing super deep, its nothing Earth shattering, but it was a brilliant little touch that showed you very clearly how she latched onto something from this world (and even genuinely may have liked it!) and used it to blend in.

    she could kiss peter all she wants, but if she was riding in a car with him and asked to listen to some U3, he'd be like 'what the hell is wrong with you?'

    the password was a great payoff to Fauxlivia's little quiet U2 journey - and it clearly was an advantage to be able to take something from over here and use it to fit in, especially to the point Peter went out and got them concert tickets. that was the whole point - they actually had a relationship with feelings. Just kissing someone doesn't create that emotional bond that sharing favorite bands and books does.

    mxmarks on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying she didn't utilize U2 at all. It was indeed woven into the whole facade. But, in the end, it got her files broken into and was not required to blend in or get close to Peter. Yeah, her kissing Peter may not do much (and even that is debatable really), but OLIVIA kissing Peter is what set most of this up. It's what let her worm into U2 and his pants. She exploited the bond between Peter and Olivia more than created one on her own, though there was a little of that.

    But it is a minor point. Where's a new episode so we have new stuff to talk about!

    Xeddicus on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Daxon wrote: »
    Where does Bolivia come from?

    Walter was calling her Folivia.. (y'know, for fake olivia)

    I thought it was more clever

    like faux-olivia

    fauxlivia

    DasUberEdward on
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    iguanacusiguanacus Desert PlanetRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Daxon wrote: »
    Where does Bolivia come from?

    Walter was calling her Folivia.. (y'know, for fake olivia)

    I thought it was more clever

    like faux-olivia

    fauxlivia

    That's what I always figured.

    iguanacus on
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So I avoided this thread for a bit because missed last weeks episode.

    I just watched it and came storming in here to read about all the great discussion...

    and find posts about u2 and nicknames. It did not live up to my expectations.

    Disrupter on
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    ebotasticebotastic Going Gonzo In People's HeartsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So I avoided this thread for a bit because missed last weeks episode.

    I just watched it and came storming in here to read about all the great discussion...

    and find posts about u2 and nicknames. It did not live up to my expectations.

    Ask not what your Fringe thread can do for you, ask what you can do for your Fringe thread.

    ebotastic on
    Please, call me ebo.
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, we didn't get much to go on other than Peter going solo. And we went over that. So.

    Xeddicus on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    mxmarks on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    that ending was GREAT

    mxmarks on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That ending was GREAT? That ending was CONTRIVED to put their relationship front and center (though, so was Nina bringing up Peter and Olivia in the first place. What happened to Olivia's sister? A heart to to heart with her makes sense.) "He still has feelings for her.". That's nice and vague. Like all of Sam's (stalker?) bullshit, too. And Nina won't mention this to anyone. And the fact it is pivotal to the fate of the world is reaching even for Fringe. It was going fine until the last 30 seconds. I'm sure Peter is going to re-cross the Universes, hook up with Fauxlivia and destroy home. Or not. That would be totally unexpected, but has zero chances of happening.

    A lot of this could be avoided if Olivia would just talk to Peter, too. So we'll see what happens. If that paper had said "Peter killed the shapeshifters." at least that would create something tangible for them to fight over.

    Xeddicus on
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    Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    My two thoughts of the night, one of which is from a comment thread somewhere else:

    1) Sam Weiss could be lying. (Wasn't there an anagram for DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS somewhere?)

    2) The psychic dude could have faked the note. (She seems to be the first person he's met that he could have a normal relationship with, and he didn't seem too happy with her at the end -- could have faked the note to spite her)

    But yeah, I'm not too thrilled that things seem to be boiling down to "olol which Olivia will Peter choose? FIND OUT NEXT WEEK ON FRINGE"

    (I did, however, enjoy the inversion of the usual Bond movie scenario at the end, as well as the fact that it was the same company from the exploding-heads episode at the beginning.)

    Mike Danger on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    1 is possible. Kind of odd for him to be a bad guy and just be sitting in the bowling ally doing nothing most of the time, but maybe he's not bad and just 'beyond' the current situation or some shit.

    2 they seemed to kind of hinting at with the reaction shots and what not from him, but it's pretty childish and a flimsy setup. Of course, the whole thing is flimsy.

    I will be blown away if one of them (hopefully Peter) burns that note and lays it out plain and simple. Peter may still be a little confused over Fuaxliva (she's Olivia, after all. Kinda.), but I'm pretty sure he meant it when he said he'd kill her if Olivia was hurt. Seems in the end he's made his choice.

    Xeddicus on
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    DacDac Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Thoughts
    Olivia's interaction with Nina at the beginning of the show was odd. Olivia's supposed to me more reserved than that. Talking about relationship issues with Astrid made sense - they're a lot closer, and that scene was done way better.

    Overall a good episode, but I don't really like how the will-they-won't-they is bleeding into - and taking control of - the main plot. I always found the Olivia/Peter thing to be an interesting sideline, but nothing more than that. All the other stuff seemed more important and interesting.

    Meh. Oh well, the writers have been doing a bang-up job so far, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Dac on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    My two thoughts of the night, one of which is from a comment thread somewhere else:

    1) Sam Weiss could be lying. (Wasn't there an anagram for DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS somewhere?)

    2) The psychic dude could have faked the note. (She seems to be the first person he's met that he could have a normal relationship with, and he didn't seem too happy with her at the end -- could have faked the note to spite her)

    But yeah, I'm not too thrilled that things seem to be boiling down to "olol which Olivia will Peter choose? FIND OUT NEXT WEEK ON FRINGE"

    (I did, however, enjoy the inversion of the usual Bond movie scenario at the end, as well as the fact that it was the same company from the exploding-heads episode at the beginning.)

    Oh and yeah, "Don't Trust Sam Weiss" was the commercial break message or something at some point.

    Xeddicus on
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    Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I went and looked it up. When they're in the Harvard lab on the other side, the blackboard says A DEVIL'S TWIST RUSTS, which anagrams out to DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS.

    And yeah, I think the second season finale has WEISS as the glyph word.

    Mike Danger on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I went and looked it up. When they're in the Harvard lab on the other side, the blackboard says A DEVIL'S TWIST RUSTS, which anagrams out to DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS.

    And yeah, I think the second season finale has WEISS as the glyph word.

    That's awesome it does that missing letters (O and N).

    Edit: Because it's actually "A DEMONS TWIST RUSTS".

    Xeddicus on
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    KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It was "A Demons Twist Rusts"

    Khildith on
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    Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Whoops. :|

    Mike Danger on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What else are you twisting around? Are you working for the the other side?! ARE YOU?!?!

    Xeddicus on
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    Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm from the yellow universe, yo.

    Mike Danger on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2011
    What I think would be really great is if Peter's allegiance to Our World starts to wane. It would make sense if they went that route - he's not from here and his father on this side has done terrible things for selfish reasons.

    There's no reason to accept that the other universe is objectively better than ours. Peter is smart enough to see that. And now he has a specific tie to someone from over there in Fauxlivia.

    That said, if the show was to go that route, it kinda screwed the pooch in it's initial portrayal of that world and its denizens. Peter switching sides would only work for the audience if we were sympathetic towards the folks from the other side, and so far most of the major players over there have been complete assholes, including Fauxlivia herself (who seemed to blithely kill anyone who sort of got in her way).

    So while I think Peter choosing Fauxlivia would actually be an awesome and plausible plot twist, I don't think it'll go that way. Or if it does, it's going to kinda suck, because we won't be torn at all. (As compared to, say, BSG which did a great job of establishing Cylons as the enemy and then getting us to sympathize with them.) We'll just be all, "Grar, stupid Peter, why are you siding with those assholes?"

    ElJeffe on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The information about the machine was revealed so casually that it has to be fake, or at least misleading. By having the fans speculate about which Olivia will be chosen, the writers set us up to be surprised when the outcome is something else altogether.

    For instance, what if Peter says he can't choose one over the other because they're both essentially the same person? Could the universes merge, creating a bizarre amalgam universe with elements of both realities?

    If so, the next season could then deal with the fallout.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Sam also seems to dismiss offhand the possibility that Peter won't choose to destroy a universe. Maybe he has an ulterior motive in convincing Nina that Peter can't be trusted?

    Zek on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2011
    For instance, what if Peter says he can't choose one over the other because they're both essentially the same person? Could the universes merge, creating a bizarre amalgam universe with elements of both realities?

    Logically, the two Olivias aren't any more similar than identical twins would be. They look the same, and maybe share some traits, but they were raised in different environments to become different people.

    ElJeffe on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Peter has no more reason to hate the other side than he does this one, but he does have more reasons to stay/pick our side. Namely Olivia and everyone else he's ever met on this side. The other side isn't this side, even if most everyone is almost identical, they're not. And everyone our Fringe team has met with the exception of Charlie, burn guy, and Alt-Broyles, have been assholes like Jeffe said. This skews perceptions and not the fact most everyone over there is A-ok, but it doesn't promote the idea that side should 'win out'.

    And if we're going with "Who should he pick?" at this point he has concrete reasons to NOT pick Fauxlivia (like how she blithely kills innocent people, though you can mitigate some of that...kinda), lied to him, helped torture and but-for-the-grace-of-TV-plot kill Olivia, and everyone else on this side. Cheated on her boyfriend even!! But hey, she (fake?) smiles a lot and wears a dress! She of course has most of the positive qualities Olivia does ("He still has feelings for her."), but no one is 100% evil all the time. Just enough. Evil may not fit exactly, but Fauxlivia knows the real score now and her actions were far too extreme. I suspect she'll have a crisis of conscience. though, when we do catch up to her.

    Xeddicus on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    For instance, what if Peter says he can't choose one over the other because they're both essentially the same person? Could the universes merge, creating a bizarre amalgam universe with elements of both realities?

    Logically, the two Olivias aren't any more similar than identical twins would be. They look the same, and maybe share some traits, but they were raised in different environments to become different people.

    They're similar enough to have ended up in the same lines of work and successfully pass for each other.

    And didn't Olivia even gain some of the other Olivia's unique traits after getting brainwashed? That's why she's such a good marksman now, right?

    In any case, I don't think the differences are so great that Peter could actually choose one or the other. If circumstances somehow led Olivia to become exactly like her alternate universe counterpart, Peter would still love her. While he may miss certain traits, none of those traits determine how he feels about Olivia.

    So, I feel that his preference for the original is only due to the fact that she's the one from the "right" universe. If he's choosing between two women rather than two universes, though, then neither universe can be destroyed.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It be awesome if they nurtured Robo's line of thought for awhile, then when it comes down to it he's already made his choice and doesn't hesitate. What he doesn't hesitate over I leave up to them to make it awesome.

    Edit: And he needs to do this next week to up the ratings from 1.6, blah. That's within FOX's PR speak to keep it alive, but it's PR speak...

    Xeddicus on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Walter in the fox super bowl commercial was ADORABLE.

    mxmarks on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ugh, I had hoped they wouldn't bring back Sam. What a lame cliché of a character.

    "I'm an all-knowing guru with info about the current plot thread, but I'm also so humble and normal, I run a bowling alley, AREN'T YOUR EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED uwaaaah so mysterious~"

    Cherrn on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Maybe Nina had him snatched right after we cut away and is currently probing his mind for answers. That would be a nice example of expectations being subverted...

    Xeddicus on
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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Cherrn wrote: »
    Ugh, I had hoped they wouldn't bring back Sam. What a lame cliché of a character.

    "I'm an all-knowing guru with info about the current plot thread, but I'm also so humble and normal, I run a bowling alley, AREN'T YOUR EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED uwaaaah so mysterious~"
    Everybody just merrily accepting his character as the fountain of knowledge is crazy nonsense.

    Also, he had better have been lying, because really that is the worst explanation for what the machine does and how it works.

    Mojo_Jojo on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    wow. the amount of sam weiss hate is absurd.

    super-mysterious guy who seems to be the only one who can help people crossing over actually get well again, just turns out to somehow be the author of a book on the first people, written a gazillion years ago in multiple languages.

    that is fucking awesome, and his whole nonchalant demenor makes me that much more interested in exactly WHAT he is.

    I think its hilarious how people just start hating stuff the second it's not explained. Weiss has been in what, 3 episodes over the course of 2 years? and just NOW we're finally starting to get into who or what he is, and people already think he's lame?

    i have no idea how anyone got through the whole Robert david jones or whatever thing, that took like a whole 4 episodes to figure out his deal!

    And "everyone just accepting" is who, exactly? olivia trusts him because nina did, and olivia trusts nina. and she was right to - weiss fixed her!

    nina trusts him for reasons we don't know yet, but jesus stop making it seem like nina just randomly stumbled upon him. we just found out william bell had been searching for those books, and im willing to bet WILLIAM introduced weiss to nina years and years ago.

    i'm all about getting frusterated when stuff isn't panning out over full seasons, like Lost, but seriously you guys are really, really reaching for stuff to complain about.

    mxmarks on
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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The problem is that there's no reason for it not to have been explained. There's no sense that anybody has actually asked "Hey, what is up with the bowling alley guy who knows everything?", which is really clumsy. Including some kind of crude deflection would have been better than nothing, or making him less mysterious to the characters and having some solo scenes so that the viewer knows he's a big deal but Team Fringe and Massive Dynamic don't.

    Mojo_Jojo on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    The problem is that there's no reason for it not to have been explained. There's no sense that anybody has actually asked "Hey, what is up with the bowling alley guy who knows everything?", which is really clumsy. Including some kind of crude deflection would have been better than nothing, or making him less mysterious to the characters and having some solo scenes so that the viewer knows he's a big deal but Team Fringe and Massive Dynamic don't.

    But what do you want, really? He hasn't even been on the SHOW enough for anyone to question it.

    How was his backstory any more stupid than the random guy who works at the bookstore that peter knew, or anyone else who just gets introduced.

    Prior to this, the only dealings we had was Nina saying "Hey, we know this guy who's good at helping those who cross over get back to normal. He's kind of a weirdo, but you should see him. He's helped us out before." And he did that, and he was kind of weird and we all thought maybe there's more to him, but that was that. He was no more important that the massive dynamic scientist that knows everything and we don't demand his backstory.

    and then in the final minutes of a pretty good episode nina makes the connection that this guy has something to do with the first people, and everyone gets all pissy that we didn't get more questions and "No one is asking him anything". well - how about we give the show a week? No one asked anything yet because there never was any REASON to. Massive Dynamic has shittons of weird people associated with it and all sorts of clones and monsters and psychics and random stuff - one guy who hides out in a bowling alley who knew about the other world - and HELPS OUT - would not raise many eyebrows.

    Im 70 billion percent sure everyone will ask all the questions you want, it's just up until the last 4 minutes of this episode, there was no reason to. It was a cliffhanger, and a damn good one. I think maybe Weiss IS a "first person"...

    mxmarks on
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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, it just didn't work for me at all. The stuff with Oliver going to him was strange, because there was a huge unasked question hanging in the air about who he was and why he was the person to speak to about this.

    The episode itself was fine, the monster of the week stuff wasn't great, but having a bit of plot here along the way to help it along was welcome even if the end felt clumsy to me.

    I was really surprised that Johnny the Psychic didn't die given that they put him in the middle of a city for an extended period. And then, having survived, nobody suggested that Massive Dynamic might be able to help him (even so he could just refuse, thinking it was a trap).

    Mojo_Jojo on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, I didn't like Weiss to start with. Bell wasn't screwy, Walter wasn't screwy (because he crossed over), Walternate didn't go bonkers, Peter is fine, etc etc. But Olivia has some special reaction because of the location she happened to be assaulted in. Or something. And magic man Weiss is introduced and then forgot about (as an aside I don't recall his services being needed because she was brainwashed etc., but still). Until now. It's not really a 'The show sucks now!' thing, but since it was the last thing we saw almost and he has the same problems (even if Nina knows what his deal is everyone else should have been asking when he was steeped in the arts of dealing with people crossing over and such) it just stuck out.

    I'm more annoyed they seem to have cut her sister and niece out, since that plays against the whole "Fauxlivia is/has it better." angle and created that odd Nina/Olivia heart to heart.

    And an edit: Though, MX is also right. He hasn't been around barely at all, so he does have time to get awesome.

    Xeddicus on
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I figured Olivia needed "fixing" because she was drawn to the other side that time. Every other cross we've seen has been voluntary.

    jclast on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You mean when they yanked her back after crossing home a few times? I...guess... [tiny]but really secretly reject it.[/tiny]

    Xeddicus on
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I always felt the show made a mistake by objectively setting up the universes as ours and theirs.

    There is great potential with having the viewer or characters not really know which universe to root for. But with the fact that the other universe is signifigantly alien to ours we will clearly root for ours.

    A great twist would have been if when the alt-verse was revealed it shows something that made us realize it was OUR universe. So for two seasons wed be all "they are bad!" then we realize "they are us." And wed be conflicted because we like the universe we saw on the show, but...we like us.

    Instead, no matter what they do, we as viewers will root for the original because its the one we grew to know AND its ours.

    And yes, they made most alt-people dick-wads.

    Disrupter on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    A lot of people do think the other side isn't bad. And most everyone seems to agree that it's of course just the people we get to see that are the assholes, and the vast majority of the other side are fine people. It would be kind of a boring story if they all just worked together to try and save both universes, though. I suppose that may end up happening, but need conflict first.

    Though, really, I doubt there's anything they could do to get anyone to go against US vs THEM. Even if they did some crazy us=them thing (though you'll need to explain that some, they're either not us or are so there's only us, so then...confusion!).

    Xeddicus on
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