Well, the helmet and costume thing kinda all belong to the whole "he didn't look like comic Magneto" complaint, really. I didn't really spell it out because it seemed pretty obvious. Sabretooth being an idiot seemed alright, since Sabretooth seemed like an idiot in the comics and animated series as well. Iceman... I'm not sure Iceman was even in the first film.
Not sure if you have read enough of X-Men comics. Sabretooth is very smart. A sociopath, but an intelligent one.
And Wolverine did not have a yellow and blue costume. Did that bother you?
Bottom line... Magneto should've looked somewhat imposing. The guy's a big supervillain, and the main antagonist of the film. Ian McKellan did not look imposing. He looked like an old frail man who would break a hip if someone tripped him.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. He dominated every scene he was in, even without the costume on. You don't need to be a huge hulk of a man to accomplish that if you are as amazing of a actor as Ian McKellen is.
And the WWII origin is problematic. That is going to become less and less believable as time goes on, and WWII fades further back into the history books. It's just not going to be workable. Look at Iron Man, and what happened there. Tony Stark originally built his Iron Man suit to escape from the Viet Cong, for God's sake. Then Warren Ellis updated it to the war in Afghanistan in his excellent "Extremis" arc. It made sense and brought the character's origin back into relevant memory. They're gonna need to do something similar with Magneto, I'd wager.
Iron Man isn't an old man. Magneto is. It worked now. Maybe couple of decades from this he can be some dude from a Soviet gulag or something similar. A Palestinian from Gaza. A North Korean political prisoner. Whatever.
And being an Jew from a concentration camp is certainly a bigger part of Magneto's character then the location or the particular time where Iron Man built his suit.
And Wolverine did not have a yellow and blue costume. Did that bother you?
Nope. See, you seem to be under the belief that I'm one-dimensional, like some comic book characters we might see in our funny books. That I am either averse to every single deviation from the comics, or welcoming of any and all. Everything has to be either black or white. However, let me disabuse you of that notion right now. You see, I am actually what is called a human being, and thus my feelings have varying degrees of tolerance. So while some changes may raise my ire, others will not. Let's try to stay on track here, instead of dashing off to new territories, shall we?
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. He dominated every scene he was in, even without the costume on. You don't need to be a huge hulk of a man to accomplish that if you are as amazing of a actor as Ian McKellen is.
His acting was fine, sure. But physically, it didn't work for me. Film is a visual medium.
Iron Man isn't an old man. Magneto is. It worked now. Maybe couple of decades from this he can be some dude from a Soviet gulag or something similar. A Palestinian from Gaza. A North Korean political prisoner. Whatever.
And being an Jew from a concentration camp is certainly a bigger part of Magneto's character then the location or the particular time where Iron Man built his suit.
I'm not sure Magneto is an old man though. When I look at that Jim Lee picture, I don't really see an old man. I didn't think Magneto was an old man in the TAS either.
Seriously? You're annoyed about divergences in continuity from the cartoon as well?
And no, Sabretooth isn't a dumb brute in the comic. He's a cunning, manipulative sociopath and a murderer. You're remembering it wrong or you read the very few issues where he had brain damage.
Nope. See, you seem to be under the belief that I'm one-dimensional, like some comic book characters we might see in our funny books. That I am either averse to every single deviation from the comics, or welcoming of any and all. Everything has to be either black or white. However, let me disabuse you of that notion right now. You see, I am actually what is called a human being, and thus my feelings have varying degrees of tolerance. So while some changes may raise my ire, others will not. Let's try to stay on track here, instead of dashing off to new territories, shall we?
But it's sort of hypocritical to say that another character's ridiculous costume is important while another isn't.
I'm not sure Magneto is an old man though. When I look at that Jim Lee picture, I don't really see an old man. I didn't think Magneto was an old man in the TAS either.
Jim Lee is hardly the only artist that has ever drawn Magneto, and most artists and writers portray him as quite aged.
Examples from over the years:
Sure, he doesn't look like the 90-year old that he's in reality, but he isn't a fifty year old either. Ian McKellen, a 60-70-year old was a pretty good fit for him. Magneto is an old man. Charles Xavier is an old man too. Jim Lee is just incapable of drawing old men, it seems. And the animated series...well I love it, but it was the animated series.
Havok is written as sometimes being incredibly powerful and able to incinerate buildings with the slightest use of his power, and sometimes written as being able to use lower-energy bursts that don't burn big holes in people, so it's variable.
And making a good movie needs to come before any notions of faithfullness. Trying to please the fans will always get in the way of a good story, since everyone wants something different. But everyone loves a good story. The Dark Knight for example; the best comic book film ever made yet it had a vibe more realistic than anything else ever done in Batman history.
Look, the point is that if you want the WWII origin of Magento, and you want it to be set in contemporary times, he'll either have to be as old as McKellan was when they made the film, or cast a younger actor and either hope no one notices how dumb that is or insert a clumsy explanation about why he hasn't aged.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
Look, the point is that if you want the WWII origin of Magento, and you want it to be set in contemporary times, he'll either have to be as old as McKellan was when they made the film, or cast a younger actor and either hope no one notices how dumb that is or insert a clumsy explanation about why he hasn't aged.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
Magneto being really old and frail when he should be younger and muscular seems more significant then just nit-picking.
But we'll have to agree to disagree.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Isn't Iceman supposed to be one of the most powerful X-Men? Like, "cosmic god level" powerful? Something about him being able to manipulate water molecules.
Look, the point is that if you want the WWII origin of Magento, and you want it to be set in contemporary times, he'll either have to be as old as McKellan was when they made the film, or cast a younger actor and either hope no one notices how dumb that is or insert a clumsy explanation about why he hasn't aged.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
Magneto being really old and frail when he should be younger and muscular seems more significant then just nit-picking.
But we'll have to agree to disagree.
But Magneto isn't younger or muscular in any of those pics, except maybe in one or two. Most artists and writers portray him as old man as I have demonstrated. And even if that was not true, every single character is also portrayed as in inhuman Mr. Universe in many comics, so does Christopher Reeve, Christian Bale, Patrick Stewart (Professor X is ripped in many depictions), Hugh Jackman, etc. etc. not being as muscular as their characters as portrayed by some artists bother you as well?
Iceman's power levels received a huge boost in the last ten years or so. His underperforming with incredible powers was actually a plotline for him a while back.
Look, the point is that if you want the WWII origin of Magento, and you want it to be set in contemporary times, he'll either have to be as old as McKellan was when they made the film, or cast a younger actor and either hope no one notices how dumb that is or insert a clumsy explanation about why he hasn't aged.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
Magneto being really old and frail when he should be younger and muscular seems more significant then just nit-picking.
But we'll have to agree to disagree.
He was played by Ian McKellan, not Hans Moleman. Ian McKellan was not 'frail and really old' when they made X-Men. He was 61 when they made the film. He's portrayed as incredibly muscular by one artist. Most other artists portray him as being of a more reasonable stature. "Magneto doesn't look like Jim Lee's drawing of him" is not a reasonable complaint.
Look, the point is that if you want the WWII origin of Magento, and you want it to be set in contemporary times, he'll either have to be as old as McKellan was when they made the film, or cast a younger actor and either hope no one notices how dumb that is or insert a clumsy explanation about why he hasn't aged.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
Magneto being really old and frail when he should be younger and muscular seems more significant then just nit-picking.
But we'll have to agree to disagree.
But Magneto isn't younger or muscular in any of those pics, except maybe in one or two. Most artists and writers portray him as old man as I have demonstrated. And even if that was not true, every single character is also portrayed as in inhuman Mr. Universe in many comics, so does Christopher Reeve, Christian Bale, Patrick Stewart (Professor X is ripped in many depictions), Hugh Jackman, etc. etc. not being as muscular as their characters as portrayed by some artists bother you as well?
Christopher Reeve was quite muscular. Christian Bale was quite muscular.
I've never seen a depiction of Professor X as muscular. He's a guy who sits in a wheelchair and mind controls people. Maybe you think of Prof X as a muscular hulk. But I don't.
Hugh Jackman was quite muscular.
You're really making my point for me, actually. Sure, they aren't quite as muscular as an inhuman Mr. Universe, but they're making a good effort towards that ideal, right? And yes, it is possible for a slightly older gentleman to be muscular as well. *points to the Colonel guy from Avatar*
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I'm not sure "Actor X in film Y doesn't match my very personal view of character Z" is a valid complaint.
Magneto was a big of a beefcake in the animated series, nobody disputes that, but in most of the comics he was not.
Mojo_Jojo on
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You still haven't answered the fundamental question: how would the film explain a younger actor to the audience after basing his origin in WWII? I think the answer is that you don't care about the answer. You just want it that way. No actual concern for how dumb that would seem in the film, or how how pointless it would be. You just want things that way.
Christopher Reeve was quite muscular. Christian Bale was quite muscular.
I've never seen a depiction of Professor X as muscular. He's a guy who sits in a wheelchair and mind controls people. Maybe you think of Prof X as a muscular hulk. But I don't.
Hugh Jackman was quite muscular.
You're really making my point for me, actually. Sure, they aren't quite as muscular as an inhuman Mr. Universe, but they're making a good effort towards that ideal, right? And yes, it is possible for a slightly older gentleman to be muscular as well. *points to the Colonel guy from Avatar*
Christopher Reeve as Superman:
Jim Lee's portrayal of Superman:
The difference between realistic "Quite muscular" and Jim Lee's pill popping steroid junkies who could break Arnold Schwarzenegger between their pinky and index fingers, even if they did not have superpowers, is far greater then the almost non-existing physical or age difference between the dozens of portrayals of Magneto excluding Jim Lee, and Ian McKellen.
And since you seem not to be getting this - Magneto being ripped is not an integral part of his character, just like Professor X being ripped is not an integral part of his character. Both are old men as demonstrated in the dozen pics I just posted. SOME ARTISTS do portray Professor X as perfect abs and biceps that would make Michelangelo cry in joy:
but if you actually understand the character you get that it's simply artistic license and in fact most artists don't portray him as such and writers don't intend him to be as such. JUST LIKE WITH MAGNETO. I'm not sure why you think of Magneto as a muscular hulk and don't think the same of Professor X, because their body type is portrayed pretty similar by most artists.
No, I think my point stands fine, and you are either not getting it or are a hypocrite.
He was played by Ian McKellan, not Hans Moleman. Ian McKellan was not 'frail and really old' when they made X-Men. He was 61 when they made the film. He's portrayed as incredibly muscular by one artist. Most other artists portray him as being of a more reasonable stature. "Magneto doesn't look like Jim Lee's drawing of him" is not a reasonable complaint.
Well, I do think it's kind of telling that only two or three of those are from actual comic books. And most of them seem to be from the glorious 90's, where even babies could bench press a Toyota.
Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart had the necessary gravitas to be convincing as leaders of two powerful groups of mutants. If the people playing superheroes had to look like superheroes, you'd either use a lot of CGI or end up hiring bodybuilders, rather than actors.
Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart had the necessary gravitas to be convincing as leaders of two powerful groups of mutants. If the people playing superheroes had to look like superheroes, you'd either use a lot of CGI or end up hiring bodybuilders, rather than actors.
Well ... personally I wouldn't mind seeing Steve Austin or Dwayne Johnson in a super hero movie, but there are no heroes that immediately spring to mind.
McKellen and Stewart were absolutely perfect for the roles and went very well with the not-so-comic-y look of the films.
As for First Class ... hasn't the director said the group shot is a fake?
Isn't Havok supposed to be the strongest X-Men character ever along with Apocalypse?
Definitely not. Havok is on the same level as Cyclops, except without the brain damage that makes him unable to control his power.
Also, Apocalypse is not the strongest mutant ever, and since the addition of Azazel he may not even be the oldest anymore... although he probably still is. What I love about Apocalypse is how flawed he is as a villain. His whole point is that only the strongest should survive, yet he gets his ass kicked every single time he tries to do something.
Here is a list of the Omega-level mutants, Jean Gray is notably absent due to her being dead and all... for now anyway.
Also, seriously, Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart were perfect for their respective parts...
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When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
1. This movie looks terrible. It should not be happening. I'll await a reason to change my mind.
Depends on what you are basing your opinion ... if on the group shot, that shouldn't concern you, as it is most likely a fake.
If it is on something else ... please elaborate.
Personally I really dig the mutants in the 60s theme of the movie and can't wait to see what the final product looks like. Especially after the lackluster X3 and the abomination that was Wolverine.
1. This movie looks terrible. It should not be happening. I'll await a reason to change my mind.
Depends on what you are basing your opinion ... if on the group shot, that shouldn't concern you, as it is most likely a fake.
If it is on something else ... please elaborate.
Personally I really dig the mutants in the 60s theme of the movie and can't wait to see what the final product looks like. Especially after the lackluster X3 and the abomination that was Wolverine.
Is that other picture (Magneto with a helmet on) real?
If so, you have one of my reasons.
ChillyWilly on
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I'm sure you can tell the difference between a change that severs any link to the original character and keeping the core concept and just changing details, Carrot.
I really think that Mystique being older than everyone but Wolverine and never ever being on the X-Men's side except maybe when someone is attacking all mutants is a fundamental part of who she is.
1. This movie looks terrible. It should not be happening. I'll await a reason to change my mind.
Depends on what you are basing your opinion ... if on the group shot, that shouldn't concern you, as it is most likely a fake.
If it is on something else ... please elaborate.
Personally I really dig the mutants in the 60s theme of the movie and can't wait to see what the final product looks like. Especially after the lackluster X3 and the abomination that was Wolverine.
Is that other picture (Magneto with a helmet on) real?
If so, you have one of my reasons.
Does the actor have a giant head? I am asking that in all seriousness. It should explain whether that is a real photo or not.
Mojo_Jojo on
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Isn't Havok supposed to be the strongest X-Men character ever along with Apocalypse?
Definitely not. Havok is on the same level as Cyclops, except without the brain damage that makes him unable to control his power.
Also, Apocalypse is not the strongest mutant ever, and since the addition of Azazel he may not even be the oldest anymore... although he probably still is. What I love about Apocalypse is how flawed he is as a villain. His whole point is that only the strongest should survive, yet he gets his ass kicked every single time he tries to do something.
Here is a list of the Omega-level mutants, Jean Gray is notably absent due to her being dead and all... for now anyway.
Also, seriously, Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart were perfect for their respective parts...
That list is a little odd, in that it only includes "official" Omega-level mutants. It excludes mutants who were never officially "outed," but clearly sit at the Omega level (or even above). As you pointed out, Jean Grey isn't on there. Neither is Mad Jim Jaspers, who was getting near Cosmic Cube or even Infinity Gem levels of power.
Mystique being older than loads of people is something very few writers have ever touched on. And she sure isn't one of Magneto's henchmen in the comics, which is the role assigned to her in all the other X-Men movies. Dropping her link with Rogue is a much bigger change to her character, I'd say, but so what? Movies are different beasts, and introducing ever-more tangled personal relationships between characters isn't really feasible.
The probable character arc of Mystique in this movie is that of a student of Xavier being won over by Magneto's arguments and joining him at the end of the movie. That seems perfectly possible for movie Mystique.
The movie characters generally take the name and the powers of the comic character, and maybe aspects of the personality if they're a main character. Mystique in the movie is a blue-skinned shape-changer who's a bad guy but who occasionally works with good guys for mutual benefit. This isn't terribly far from the original character. Since they've dropped the idea that she's ninety years old, showing her early life and how she got to the point we see her at in the movies is not unreasonable.
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Not sure if you have read enough of X-Men comics. Sabretooth is very smart. A sociopath, but an intelligent one.
And Wolverine did not have a yellow and blue costume. Did that bother you?
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. He dominated every scene he was in, even without the costume on. You don't need to be a huge hulk of a man to accomplish that if you are as amazing of a actor as Ian McKellen is.
Iron Man isn't an old man. Magneto is. It worked now. Maybe couple of decades from this he can be some dude from a Soviet gulag or something similar. A Palestinian from Gaza. A North Korean political prisoner. Whatever.
And being an Jew from a concentration camp is certainly a bigger part of Magneto's character then the location or the particular time where Iron Man built his suit.
He's always seemed like a dumb brute to me. *shrug*
Nope. See, you seem to be under the belief that I'm one-dimensional, like some comic book characters we might see in our funny books. That I am either averse to every single deviation from the comics, or welcoming of any and all. Everything has to be either black or white. However, let me disabuse you of that notion right now. You see, I am actually what is called a human being, and thus my feelings have varying degrees of tolerance. So while some changes may raise my ire, others will not. Let's try to stay on track here, instead of dashing off to new territories, shall we?
His acting was fine, sure. But physically, it didn't work for me. Film is a visual medium.
I'm not sure Magneto is an old man though. When I look at that Jim Lee picture, I don't really see an old man. I didn't think Magneto was an old man in the TAS either.
And no, Sabretooth isn't a dumb brute in the comic. He's a cunning, manipulative sociopath and a murderer. You're remembering it wrong or you read the very few issues where he had brain damage.
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He isn't, though. And the Animated Series is hardly comic continuity either.
But it's sort of hypocritical to say that another character's ridiculous costume is important while another isn't.
And acting isn't a visual medium? That's new to me.
Jim Lee is hardly the only artist that has ever drawn Magneto, and most artists and writers portray him as quite aged.
Examples from over the years:
Sure, he doesn't look like the 90-year old that he's in reality, but he isn't a fifty year old either. Ian McKellen, a 60-70-year old was a pretty good fit for him. Magneto is an old man. Charles Xavier is an old man too. Jim Lee is just incapable of drawing old men, it seems. And the animated series...well I love it, but it was the animated series.
...no? At least I don't think so, but I haven't read X-Men in over three years or something. :?
I remember hearing that a while back. I don't even know who he is, I was just curious who the strongest X-men people are.
Now, that is just wilful ignorance as your position has been entirely eroded.
No, it's not. I don't see it. The resemblance isn't there.
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Uhh, no they don't. They look different because Magneto was not based on Ian McKellen's looks, but in actual signs of age there is no difference.
And again, not many of the actors in the X-Men movies look identical to the characters they are portraying.
EDIT: and in 2000 McKellen was only sixty years old.
I think they made the right choice, and that your objections are either fanboy nit-picking or just plain bizarre.
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I think Nick Fury could be alone in that, in fact.
That said, the comics you posted show a Magneto who looks waaay more like Ian McKellen than I remember. Then again, I'm not huge on comics.
Magneto being really old and frail when he should be younger and muscular seems more significant then just nit-picking.
But we'll have to agree to disagree.
But Magneto isn't younger or muscular in any of those pics, except maybe in one or two. Most artists and writers portray him as old man as I have demonstrated. And even if that was not true, every single character is also portrayed as in inhuman Mr. Universe in many comics, so does Christopher Reeve, Christian Bale, Patrick Stewart (Professor X is ripped in many depictions), Hugh Jackman, etc. etc. not being as muscular as their characters as portrayed by some artists bother you as well?
He was played by Ian McKellan, not Hans Moleman. Ian McKellan was not 'frail and really old' when they made X-Men. He was 61 when they made the film. He's portrayed as incredibly muscular by one artist. Most other artists portray him as being of a more reasonable stature. "Magneto doesn't look like Jim Lee's drawing of him" is not a reasonable complaint.
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Christopher Reeve was quite muscular. Christian Bale was quite muscular.
I've never seen a depiction of Professor X as muscular. He's a guy who sits in a wheelchair and mind controls people. Maybe you think of Prof X as a muscular hulk. But I don't.
Hugh Jackman was quite muscular.
You're really making my point for me, actually. Sure, they aren't quite as muscular as an inhuman Mr. Universe, but they're making a good effort towards that ideal, right? And yes, it is possible for a slightly older gentleman to be muscular as well. *points to the Colonel guy from Avatar*
Magneto was a big of a beefcake in the animated series, nobody disputes that, but in most of the comics he was not.
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Christopher Reeve as Superman:
Jim Lee's portrayal of Superman:
The difference between realistic "Quite muscular" and Jim Lee's pill popping steroid junkies who could break Arnold Schwarzenegger between their pinky and index fingers, even if they did not have superpowers, is far greater then the almost non-existing physical or age difference between the dozens of portrayals of Magneto excluding Jim Lee, and Ian McKellen.
And since you seem not to be getting this - Magneto being ripped is not an integral part of his character, just like Professor X being ripped is not an integral part of his character. Both are old men as demonstrated in the dozen pics I just posted. SOME ARTISTS do portray Professor X as perfect abs and biceps that would make Michelangelo cry in joy:
but if you actually understand the character you get that it's simply artistic license and in fact most artists don't portray him as such and writers don't intend him to be as such. JUST LIKE WITH MAGNETO. I'm not sure why you think of Magneto as a muscular hulk and don't think the same of Professor X, because their body type is portrayed pretty similar by most artists.
No, I think my point stands fine, and you are either not getting it or are a hypocrite.
Yeah you're right, it's just Jim Lee.
Oh wait.
He's only muscular in the sense that every male comic character is muscular, not as a piece of characterization.
I mean shit, I'm pretty sure people draw Professor X in a wheelchair with big muscly legs.
Well ... personally I wouldn't mind seeing Steve Austin or Dwayne Johnson in a super hero movie, but there are no heroes that immediately spring to mind.
McKellen and Stewart were absolutely perfect for the roles and went very well with the not-so-comic-y look of the films.
As for First Class ... hasn't the director said the group shot is a fake?
Definitely not. Havok is on the same level as Cyclops, except without the brain damage that makes him unable to control his power.
Also, Apocalypse is not the strongest mutant ever, and since the addition of Azazel he may not even be the oldest anymore... although he probably still is. What I love about Apocalypse is how flawed he is as a villain. His whole point is that only the strongest should survive, yet he gets his ass kicked every single time he tries to do something.
Here is a list of the Omega-level mutants, Jean Gray is notably absent due to her being dead and all... for now anyway.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Omega_Level_Mutants
Also, seriously, Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart were perfect for their respective parts...
2. Delta, your argument is silly.
Depends on what you are basing your opinion ... if on the group shot, that shouldn't concern you, as it is most likely a fake.
If it is on something else ... please elaborate.
Personally I really dig the mutants in the 60s theme of the movie and can't wait to see what the final product looks like. Especially after the lackluster X3 and the abomination that was Wolverine.
This is dumber than being against organic web-shooters.
Is that other picture (Magneto with a helmet on) real?
If so, you have one of my reasons.
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That list is a little odd, in that it only includes "official" Omega-level mutants. It excludes mutants who were never officially "outed," but clearly sit at the Omega level (or even above). As you pointed out, Jean Grey isn't on there. Neither is Mad Jim Jaspers, who was getting near Cosmic Cube or even Infinity Gem levels of power.
The probable character arc of Mystique in this movie is that of a student of Xavier being won over by Magneto's arguments and joining him at the end of the movie. That seems perfectly possible for movie Mystique.
The movie characters generally take the name and the powers of the comic character, and maybe aspects of the personality if they're a main character. Mystique in the movie is a blue-skinned shape-changer who's a bad guy but who occasionally works with good guys for mutual benefit. This isn't terribly far from the original character. Since they've dropped the idea that she's ninety years old, showing her early life and how she got to the point we see her at in the movies is not unreasonable.
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