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Someone explain the dickwolves controversy to me
DiscoZombie
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm sure I'm not the first one to start a thread on this topic, but the search function appears broken and I manually searched a few pages back and didn't find anything. Mike's latest tweets and PA blog posts brought it to the forefront of my mind again. I just want to know why this joke was such a big deal. I have tried reading all the feminist responses and just wind up more in the dark.
As Gabe himself said, jokes about "violence,rape,aids,pedophilia,bestiality,drugs,cancer,homosexuality" are prevalent in PA as well as our culture at large and no one bats an eyelash, but make a joke about rape - one that's in no way mean-spirited - and you have angry bloggers, boycotts, threats, etc. If I was raped, would I find rape jokes funny? Probably not. But if it was cartoonish and obviously not cruel or espousing rape, I would have no reason to feel threatened by such a joke. I would move on with my life.
I'm sure there are PA fans who were physically abused, but no one says they were triggered when Tycho beats the shit out of Gabe or vice versa. I'm sure there are people who have cancer or AIDS or were victimized by pedophiles when they were younger, but no one said anything when comics with those topics as a punchline came out, but when they do a comic in which a fictitious NPC in a fictitious MMO was raped by a fictitious creature, the activists come out of the woodwork. I'm not saying the activists are wrong. I just want to understand what makes this non-PC joke special.
This isn't even the first time rape has been used as a punchline in a PA comic...
As Gabe himself said, jokes about "violence,rape,aids,pedophilia,bestiality,drugs,cancer,homosexuality" are prevalent in PA as well as our culture at large and no one bats an eyelash, but make a joke about rape - one that's in no way mean-spirited - and you have angry bloggers, boycotts, threats, etc. If I was raped, would I find rape jokes funny? Probably not. But if it was cartoonish and obviously not cruel or espousing rape, I would have no reason to feel threatened by such a joke. I would move on with my life.
I'm sure there are PA fans who were physically abused, but no one says they were triggered when Tycho beats the shit out of Gabe or vice versa. I'm sure there are people who have cancer or AIDS or were victimized by pedophiles when they were younger, but no one said anything when comics with those topics as a punchline came out, but when they do a comic in which a fictitious NPC in a fictitious MMO was raped by a fictitious creature, the activists come out of the woodwork. I'm not saying the activists are wrong. I just want to understand what makes this non-PC joke special.
This isn't even the first time rape has been used as a punchline in a PA comic...
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The fact that the poor NPCs are being raped by the dickwolves is kinda besides the point and not at all integral to the joke which is about the way quests are designed.
The use of "rape" is there to imply that shit is bad - which rape is.
People wear offensive shirts all the time though so whatever.
Better yet, skip the thread and read this post, in its entirety.
I'd like to ask you a few questions:
1) If the slave in the original dickwolf comic weren't being raped nightly, but beaten, would the joke have been as funny?
2) Likewise, if the shirt didn't show a "Dickwolves" logo, but a logo that represented somebody who beats (rather than rapes) slaves, would it have been as funny?
3) If the slave in the comic weren't an adult, but a child... say, a child of 4 years old... would the rape joke have been less funny, more funny, or not funny at all?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This was what I didn't get about the response: that any use of the word 'rape' in a humorous context perpetuates rape culture and isn't funny. Because that's not true, it's lazy analysis, and it totally ignores nuance and context. We laugh at jokes involving the holocaust in "The Producers," for example. It's tricky, but it can be done. And when it works, it's hilarious.
Because a topic is dark or sensitive doesn't mean it must be excised from all humor. In my view, these topics can work well in comedy by their very nature.
The subject of rape was used essentially as a tool to convey just how horrible the conditions were for the slaves quickly and in a manner anyone could easily understand. Then, in contrast make the actual joke about the nature of RPG's where once you reach whatever goal sent you into a place with such horrible conditions in the first place you leave and instantly go on about your day.
I'm going to try.
So there's a comic about a stupid MMO trope. Saving as many slaves as is required, and no more. Worst hero ever.
But the problem: "raped to sleep by the dickwolves." This is a trigger for a subset of rape survivors.
People in and around that subset took issue with it. They could have handled it with a bit more tact, but that's moot now. The response to the insufficiently tactful response was not very tactful.
Now there's a shitstorm. Views have been solidified. Lines have been drawn. Dickwolf shirts have been sold.
It's an awful mess that will never be settled satisfactorily because everyone's so riled up about it.
I think it just went viral amongst a slice of feminist bloggers--fewer people noticed the other comics, or fewer people bothered to write about them. Controversies like this generate their own momentum as people within a community quote one another or link to each others' posts.
Bad taste? Probably. Was it intended as a joke? Absolutely. If you're not comfortable with adult topics and language, Mike said it best, this comic isn't for you.
Electronic composer for hire.
Three hypotheses, which are not mutually exclusive:
1) Penny-Arcade has grown in popularity.
2) The presence of rape survivors and communities that explicitly care about sexual assault issues have grown in size.
3) There are more rape survivors or people who explicitly care about sexual assault issues among Penny-Arcade's readership.
While I'm making points in threes, I want to also mention that there are three acts here that people find objectionable, and it helps if we separate them:
1) The original comic which made passing reference to a rape joke.
2) The 'apology' comic which poked fun at people who found the original rape joke objectionable.
3) The Dickwolves t-shirt (which, by the way, was released right before PAX).
Of these, I don't really care about (1). I understand why other people found it offensive, but I personally overlooked it. (2) struck me as ignorant, but again, ignorance is not necessarily moral failure. All it showed is that they didn't really understand, and didn't care to learn, why people found it objectionable.
(3) is the act that I found in particularly bad taste, because the design of the t-shirt explicitly aligned the wearer with the fictional rapists. To extend Spaten's Holocaust analogy above, it would be one thing to just laugh at Holocaust jokes, it would be another thing entirely to design and market a T-shirt with a "Nazis" sports team logo right before your audience is going to gather en masse at a convention.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Essentially, this is what I have a problem with
I would never wear it but like I said, people wear offensive clothing all the time and I ignore it
My wife got a degree in sociology and practically minored in women's studies, and if there's anything I've noticed about her coursework, it's that feminists will take anything and bend and flex it until it acts in direct opposition to their world view. Not all feminists on every issue, mind you, but there will inevitably be someone who tries to make a name for herself (himself) as a way to rile up support for "the cause." And it always riles up support because feminism is a movement that is literally founded on being unhappy about everything. As the equality gap is closed, there are more and more straws to grasp at if you want to stay pissed off.
That's not to say that Gabe did everything right. He should have just publicly ignored these people and gone on with his life. There's no use debating your views with someone who thinks the world is against them.
And before anyone jumps down my throat, no I don't believe that the sexes (and certainly not the genders) of this world have achieved the definition of equality. But to say this comic promotes rape culture is reaching. It's the same argument the media uses to pin actual acts of violence on video games or music or movies.
Now, that said, I understand why folks are pissed off about the shirt. It is a shirt that basically promotes a creature that is solely associated with the act of rape. Basically take what I said about rape not being the punchline of the comic and throw it out the window. Even if it's just a jab at the misplaced angst some people felt from the comic, this kind of thing absolutely does contribute to the culture of objectification of women and dismissal of sexual abuse that is prevalent in parts of the gaming community. Even if it's not directly saying "rape is funny," I guarantee you that many PAers at PAX will wear the shirt as a way to stand together against the enemy. And even if they don't consciously think about the enemy as women who have survived rape, that's certainly what they are doing.
Which means this whole 'not selling them anymore so people feel comfortable' doesn't really work out too well.
But hell I'm not a webcomic millionaire what do *I* know?
What Gabe is doing now is just equivocation. They don't think the joke is actually bad, apparently, since the strip is still up and they haven't apologized for it or anything... but they also pulled the shirt. They don't want people to feel "uncomfortable" at PAX, but apparently people who are uncomfortable about the whole dickwolves affair should just not attend, or something.
They should've either just ignored it if they didn't think it was a problem, or pulled the strip with a brief apology if they thought it was.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The social mores and tolerances that allow for rapists to thrive.
This could be the sexual objectification of women in media, the common misperception that 'men can't be raped', and inequality leading to one group having privileges over another group.
There's some literature going around, but none of it does a good job of answering the question.
Let's just assume I limed pretty much the whole thing.
Maybe I should bold it, since some people seem to be having trouble getting past "But the shirt wasn't so bad!"
ah...
they "thrive?"
I host a podcast about movies.
It's basically an edgy euphemism for male privilege; in western society, particularly white male privilege.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'm okay with 1 and 3 but I don't think this sentence is fully fair to the situation. Specifically, it made fun of people who felt the original rape joke promoted rape. Which it did not. It clearly demonstrated it as bad.
Given the startling rape statistics in America today, yeah they kinda do. There is a SHITLOAD of things that need fixing in our society before we can say we are as hostile to rape as possible.
This would not of course bring an end to rape completely because nothing is ever perfect but there are a lot of changes we could do lower the instances of rape in the country.
Of course what those changes are, how possible they are, and how far to go is all up for debate.
Speaking of which, go RAPElisberger!
I am incredibly disappointed in the way G&T have handled the backlash. This should have been handled with grace. Instead, they chose to be vitriolic and stoke the fires with a bunch of passive aggressive acts.
It makes me very sad to see them do that. I'm not abandoning PA, nor am I on some hellbent path to condemn them. I do think there is something particular to "gamer" culture that encourages vitriolic responses. Why this is the case, who knows?
Hey, why are you being so sensitive? Clearly, the most reasonable response that intelligent, logical people can make is to go around and order people who had trouble with the comic or the shirt to prove that they were raped or admit that they are lying.
And then pat ourselves on the back for mythbusting that whole rape culture thing.
Yeah, this pretty much covers my feelings as well.
yes, because american culture in general has measured, graceful opinions about things
:rotate:
I thought the followup comic was actually the part that was in the poorest taste. Like, okay, have the joke if you want, but mocking the people who were offended by it just makes you look small.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Have I missed something here? The shirt I saw just had a picture of a wolfs head with dickwolves written under it. Where does rape even come into it?
Dickwolves are the victim of a heinous stereotype as congenital rapists.
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Oh, I don't think the people complaining about the comic don't understand it. But on my first impression of the idea of rape culture, a key part of it is the implication that discussing or mentioning something desensitizes people to it by default, which I immediately disagree with. When applied specifically to this strip, that implication applies to the PA audience, and as part of that audience I resent the supposition that I'm unable to differentiate between commentary, mention, and support.
What I know of rape culture, though, comes entirely from the mention of it over the last few days, and I've not read too much background or academic info that talks about this kind of psychology - so this might be a misinformed viewpoint.
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I've read this since, and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any psychological studies or whatnot I could read about this? As many good points as are made here, it's clearly a biased source.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
We only know one thing about dickwolves. They rape slaves to sleep.
The shirt is a parody of a sports team shirt. Essentially we're rooting for a team named after slave rapers.
No not slave rappers.
I think this is the important thing to note in all of this. The problem is not comic one, it's the T-shirt, and the way response to that T-shirt has been handled.
And having Kurtz's awful social skills be made relevant again in any context, because good god that man is awful.