Man, I don't know if people have ever met children but
Telling them
"Hey, hey. Buddy. [Vague thing]" is basically like saying go ahead just keep on keeping on I got no fucking idea. Having to tiptoe at all reduces the effectiveness of any discussion pretty much exponentially.
On the topic of bullying Tennessee has an anti-bullying bill that has either already passed or is in the works for schools. However the bill makes a special exemption for Christians because telling a Christian that they can't tell their gay classmates that their lifestyle is bad is stepping on their freedom of religion.
I have trouble believing such a law could be passed... Aren't there, like, checks and balances for laws to pass?
After some convoluted maneuvers, a Senate committee Wednesday approved a bill that will prohibit teachers from discussing homosexuality in kindergarten through eighth-grade classrooms.
The measure (SB49) is sponsored by Sen. Stacey Campfield, R-Knoxville, who unsuccessfully pushed the same idea - nicknamed the "don't say gay" bill - for six years as a member of the state House before he was elected to the Senate.
As introduced, the bill would have put into law a declaration that it is illegal to discuss any sexual behavior other than heterosexuality prior to the ninth grade.
WTF, my home state.
I hate living in you sometimes.
Start making calls. You're a constituent.
Well, he already got a pissed off email, which I doubt will amount to much. But it's more than nothing.
I'll figure out what the next step is if I get an actual response or some stupid, "Thanks for your email!" in response.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
On the topic of bullying Tennessee has an anti-bullying bill that has either already passed or is in the works for schools. However the bill makes a special exemption for Christians because telling a Christian that they can't tell their gay classmates that their lifestyle is bad is stepping on their freedom of religion.
Pretty sure that's also unconstitutional, for several reasons. Can't give one religion special preferences over others, plus religious exemptions don't work that way. You can't use illegal drugs because your religion says you can, so I doubt you can illegally bully because your religion says you can.
Man, I don't know if people have ever met children but
Telling them
"Hey, hey. Buddy. [Vague thing]" is basically like saying go ahead just keep on keeping on I got no fucking idea. Having to tiptoe at all reduces the effectiveness of any discussion pretty much exponentially.
No, you're right. If you just explain, logically, to a kid why they shouldn't do something, they won't do that thing. Yuppers! Especially when that kid knows that you can only enforce whether he does something during specific hours of the day.
Man, I don't know if people have ever met children but
Telling them
"Hey, hey. Buddy. [Vague thing]" is basically like saying go ahead just keep on keeping on I got no fucking idea. Having to tiptoe at all reduces the effectiveness of any discussion pretty much exponentially.
No, you're right. If you just explain, logically, to a kid why they shouldn't do something, they won't do that thing. Yuppers! Especially when that kid knows that you can only enforce whether he does something during specific hours of the day.
So what you're saying is no teacher should ever try to tell a kid why not to bully someone, since it'll never make a difference.
And all of this completely ignores the gay kid sitting there, learning that homosexuality is something that is shameful and should never be talked about.
I know that anti-bullying bill with that exemption is insane, but this is Tennessee. I'm trying to find the news article that I read on it, or anything on it. But I can't find the one with the quote from the senator that wanted to include the exemption for christianity into the bill.
Man, I don't know if people have ever met children but
Telling them
"Hey, hey. Buddy. [Vague thing]" is basically like saying go ahead just keep on keeping on I got no fucking idea. Having to tiptoe at all reduces the effectiveness of any discussion pretty much exponentially.
No, you're right. If you just explain, logically, to a kid why they shouldn't do something, they won't do that thing. Yuppers! Especially when that kid knows that you can only enforce whether he does something during specific hours of the day.
So what you're saying is no teacher should ever try to tell a kid why not to bully someone, since it'll never make a difference.
I'm saying that you'd be delusional to think that teachers being able to use the word gay in class had eradicated gay bashing in eighth grade. I'm saying that telling a kid not to make fun of homosexuals can have the opposite effect or just reinforces the fact that teachers can only monitor what kids say in school and that as soon as they're off school property they can be as cruel as they want to be and I think they're smart enough to realize that.
OK couscous. Tell me why it's wrong for me to call Timmy a fag and Billy a retard.
Billy's not a retard and you don't know if Timmy is a homosexual or not because I'll assume you don't normally ask third graders their sexual orientation.
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Can we stop arguing about this? I mean, basically, everyone agrees it's a bad law... Do we really need to argue about how bad it is or isn't?
Having teachers take a firm stance helps set the tone that it is not tolerable in society. As kids are going to be there for a long time, their views are going to be affected by the tone just like how most of their views will be strongly affected by what they learn in school. The fucking importance is why this shit, like the military, is often strongly fought over when it comes to civil rights.
OK couscous. Tell me why it's wrong for me to call Timmy a fag and Billy a retard.
Billy's not a retard and you don't know if Timmy is a homosexual or not because I'll assume you don't normally ask third graders their sexual orientation.
The same goddamn way you tell a kid using racial slurs and every other goddamn slur is bad. The same goddamn fucking reasons for not calling a person a slur who doesn't fit the slur. "Don't Jew me" or "I'm not your n-word" aren't somehow more acceptable or harder to explain why it is wrong if none of the people involved are Jews. People have been doing it since goddamn forever.
"Don't do that because it is offensive to X people and being X isn't something that is negative." That is the basic explanation of why it is wrong for every bigoted statement.
Ok, you cant do it. You could've just said that instead of writing a whole paragraph.
Your point is that because Couscous isn't personally an elementary school teacher, that... what? No elementary school teacher could instruct a student why it's bad to not accept other people?
I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at here. Would it be different if we said teachers couldn't talk about blacks? Or Muslims? Part of instructing students is teaching them about the society they live in; intentionally excluding segments of that only reinforces bigotry.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
OK couscous. Tell me why it's wrong for me to call Timmy a fag and Billy a retard.
Billy's not a retard and you don't know if Timmy is a homosexual or not because I'll assume you don't normally ask third graders their sexual orientation.
The same goddamn way you tell a kid using racial slurs and every other goddamn slur is bad. The same goddamn fucking reasons for not calling a person a slur who doesn't fit the slur. "Don't Jew me" or "I'm not your n-word" aren't somehow more acceptable or harder to explain why it is wrong if none of the people involved are Jews. People have been doing it since goddamn forever.
"Don't do that because it is offensive to X people and being X isn't something that is negative." That is the basic explanation of why it is wrong for every bigoted statement.
...You're not allowed to talk about X people. That's why the law is fucked up
I love it when people who (presumably) aren't teachers pretend to know what a teacher should or shouldn't do and what is or is not effective in the classroom...
I think it's best to summarize the stupidity of this law as:
Now, when a teacher sees a kid being mocked as "gay", they have no way of explaining to the children that there's nothing wrong with being gay and that it's not a slur.
On the topic of bullying Tennessee has an anti-bullying bill that has either already passed or is in the works for schools. However the bill makes a special exemption for Christians because telling a Christian that they can't tell their gay classmates that their lifestyle is bad is stepping on their freedom of religion.
I have trouble believing such a law could be passed... Aren't there, like, checks and balances for laws to pass?
Not if the check is just as much a bigoted asshole.
On the topic of bullying Tennessee has an anti-bullying bill that has either already passed or is in the works for schools. However the bill makes a special exemption for Christians because telling a Christian that they can't tell their gay classmates that their lifestyle is bad is stepping on their freedom of religion.
Also known as the Let's Give The ACLU A Mild Workout Act.
mythago on
Three lines of plaintext:
obsolete signature form
replaced by JPEGs.
The last two pages were the stupidest thing I've read all day.
I'm not sure why it's difficult to understand that institutionalizing the marginalization of a class of people and barring discussion of what is a major human rights issue is a bad thing.
You can follow the links there to go to the full text. Some excerpts:
"Creating a hostile educational environment" shall not be construed to include
discomfort and unpleasantness that can accompany the expression of a viewpoint or belief that
is unpopular, not shared by other students, or not shared by teachers or school officials.
Harassment, intimidation, or bullying prevention task forces, programs, and
other initiatives formed by school districts, including any curriculum adopted for such
purposes, shall not include materials or training that explicitly or implicitly promote a
political agenda, make the characteristics of the victim the focus rather than the conduct
of the person engaged in harassment, intimidation, or bullying, or teach or suggest that
certain beliefs or viewpoints are discriminatory when an act or practice based on such
belief or viewpoint is not a discriminatory practice as defined in 4-21-102(4).
The policy shall not be construed or interpreted to infringe upon the First
Amendment rights of students and shall not prohibit their expression of religious,
philosophical, or political views; provided, that such expression does not include a threat
of physical harm to a student or damage to a student’s property.
House sponsor:
Rep. Vance Dennis
R-Savannah
District 71 — Hardin, McNairy and part of Decatur Counties — Map
district address
545 Cedar Cove Lane
Savannah 38372
nashville address
301 6th Avenue North
Suite 209A War Memorial Bldg.
Nashville TN 37243
Phone: (615) 741-2190
Fax: (615) 253-0377 rep.vance.dennis@capitol.tn.gov
Senate Sponsor:
Senator Jim Tracy
R-Shelbyville
District 16 — Bedford, Moore, and part of Rutherford Counties — Map
district address
106 Finch Lane
Shelbyville, TN 37160
nashville address
301 6th Avenue North
Suite 2 Legislative Plaza.
Nashville, TN 37243
Phone 615-741-1066
Fax 615-741-2255 sen.jim.tracy@capitol.tn.gov
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Nobody is even mentioning the pressures this puts on homosexual teachers.
Apparently there's a law of conservation of DADT policies
Thanks invisible. The news article I read basically had one of those two saying that religious students could tell gay students that they were bad, icky, and damned all day long and that shouldn't count as bullying.
And all of this completely ignores the gay kid sitting there, learning that homosexuality is something that is shameful and should never be talked about.
Yeah, this. Basically, no kid would be allowed to say, "Hey, I'm gay" which some kids do want to do. I guess kids with gay parents also wouldn't be allowed to mention that fact. This law is trying to erase gays from the public consciousness. Plus it prevents educators from explicitly telling kids gayness isn't bad. Not only is this troubling within the context of bullying, but if a gay kid seeks out a teacher for support, the teacher can't tell the kid there's nothing wrong with him.
There's a lot of remarks about "kids don't listen to teachers! They will bully anyway!", and that is true of some kids. But when I was in grade/middle school my teachers were a huge influence; they were some of the first adults I regularly interacted with who weren't my parents, and who had ideas that weren't the same as my parents'. This made them very exciting people.
'We really want to encourage our kids to tell the fags that they're going to burn in a lake of fire forever and ever for thier devious attractions.'
And actually, it goes even beyond that. This bill is more about making a statement that homosexuals are still unwanted and dangerous. That's really what this is about. Putting the dirty faggots in thier place.
The it's OK for Christians to bully gay kids bill is even more depressing when you realize they're also trying to make it a crime to be muslim.
Seriously, they're trying to make sharia law illegal and the punishment for following it is 15 years in prison. The original bill called it a military doctrine and that it advocated jihad and should therefore be banned. They recently removed the phrases directly talking about muslims, but make no mistake that that's the only group they intend to turn into criminals.
So, when you read religions, philosophical or unpopular viewpoints they really do mean only Christian viewpoints.
The only sane person in the state government is the AG and that's only because he's appointed by the supreme court and if the nutters get their way he'll be elected too. They're pissed because he refused to join the healthcare lawsuit because he said national law will trump state law and he gave the opinion that the voter photo ID law would be unconstitutional unless the state offered a free photo ID (which is estimated to cost the state $200,000 and they're bitching about how the budget is out of wack :?).
So, I reiterate my desire for Sherman's ghost to lead another march.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
The it's OK for Christians to bully gay kids bill is even more depressing when you realize they're also trying to make it a crime to be muslim.
Seriously, they're trying to make sharia law illegal and the punishment for following it is 15 years in prison. The original bill called it a military doctrine and that it advocated jihad and should therefore be banned. They recently removed the phrases directly talking about muslims, but make no mistake that that's the only group they intend to turn into criminals.
So, when you read religions, philosophical or unpopular viewpoints they really do mean only Christian viewpoints.
The only sane person in the state government is the AG and that's only because he's appointed by the supreme court and if the nutters get their way he'll be elected too. They're pissed because he refused to join the healthcare lawsuit because he said national law will trump state law and he gave the opinion that the voter photo ID law would be unconstitutional unless the state offered a free photo ID (which is estimated to cost the state $200,000 and they're bitching about how the budget is out of wack :?).
So, I reiterate my desire for Sherman's ghost to lead another march.
No, he missed Tennessee the first time. I mean if he wants he can go back to Georgia, but Tennessee has to be first. :P
Really I'm just irritated at how disgusting this place is. It's like watching the last dying breaths of a lost cause. You know they will lose in the future, but still every day you have to watch them take away more and more rights from minorities. I vote, I try to get around this crap, but when it happens over and over again, it gets depressing.
Just watching the cognitive dissonance these people practice is crazy. They'd freak out and scream persecution if someone tried to stop a church from being built, but they'll happily sue to stop a mosque from being built. They'd march on the capitol if someone dared to propose a law banning teachers from saying "Christ" or "Christian," but "gay" and "homosexual" well they're just trying to corrupt our kids.
State Sen. Bill Ketron, R-Murfreesboro, and state Rep. Judd Matheny, R-Tullahoma, introduced the same bill in the Senate and House last week. It calls Shariah law a danger to homeland security and gives the attorney general authority to investigate complaints and decide who's practicing it.
It exempts peaceful practice of Islam but labels any adherence to Shariah law — which includes religious practices such as feet washing and prayers — as treasonous. It claims Shariah adherents want to replace the Constitution with their religious law.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
There's nothing wrong with fighting the establishment of parallel and extralegal courts. That's not a "sharia" thing so much as a tribal or local thing, and I would imagine is already illegal anywhere that has a functioning court system. That might be assuming a lot for Tennessee, though.
Whenever you want to give Tennessee the benefit of the doubt, ask yourself "Is this Tennessee doing it?" if yes, then take what you assume the worst case scenario is and multiply it by 10 and that's their intention with the law.
I wish I was joking, but it really is that fucked up. Basically you have little pockets of sanity in Nashville, but they are quickly overrun by the overwhelming number of rural areas. Like Nashville tries to protect gay and transgender employees, by requiring contractors with them to have written statements in their code protecting them from discrimination. The rest of the state flips its lid because ZOMG GAYS! and tries to crush it through state legislation. Nevermind that 99% of them will never set foot in Nashville nor will it have any affect on them, but if they're going to be bigots, by God everyone else is too.
So the four remaining Iowa supreme court justices that decreed that a ban on same-sex marriage violated the Iowa state constitution in 2009? Let's impeach them.
Iowa GOP Tries To Impeach State Supreme Court Over Marriage Equality
The four House resolutions target Supreme Court Chief Justice Mark Cady (HR 48) and Justices Brent Appel (HR 47), Daryl Hecht (HR 49) and David Wiggins (HR 50) for “malfeasance in office” specifically for their ruling in the Varnum v. Brien case, saying that each justice “exercis[ed] functions properly belonging to the legislative and executive departments.”
Posts
Telling them
"Hey, hey. Buddy. [Vague thing]" is basically like saying go ahead just keep on keeping on I got no fucking idea. Having to tiptoe at all reduces the effectiveness of any discussion pretty much exponentially.
I have trouble believing such a law could be passed... Aren't there, like, checks and balances for laws to pass?
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Well, he already got a pissed off email, which I doubt will amount to much. But it's more than nothing.
I'll figure out what the next step is if I get an actual response or some stupid, "Thanks for your email!" in response.
Pretty sure that's also unconstitutional, for several reasons. Can't give one religion special preferences over others, plus religious exemptions don't work that way. You can't use illegal drugs because your religion says you can, so I doubt you can illegally bully because your religion says you can.
No, you're right. If you just explain, logically, to a kid why they shouldn't do something, they won't do that thing. Yuppers! Especially when that kid knows that you can only enforce whether he does something during specific hours of the day.
So what you're saying is no teacher should ever try to tell a kid why not to bully someone, since it'll never make a difference.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I'm saying that you'd be delusional to think that teachers being able to use the word gay in class had eradicated gay bashing in eighth grade. I'm saying that telling a kid not to make fun of homosexuals can have the opposite effect or just reinforces the fact that teachers can only monitor what kids say in school and that as soon as they're off school property they can be as cruel as they want to be and I think they're smart enough to realize that.
Billy's not a retard and you don't know if Timmy is a homosexual or not because I'll assume you don't normally ask third graders their sexual orientation.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
The same goddamn way you tell a kid using racial slurs and every other goddamn slur is bad. The same goddamn fucking reasons for not calling a person a slur who doesn't fit the slur. "Don't Jew me" or "I'm not your n-word" aren't somehow more acceptable or harder to explain why it is wrong if none of the people involved are Jews. People have been doing it since goddamn forever.
"Don't do that because it is offensive to X people and being X isn't something that is negative." That is the basic explanation of why it is wrong for every bigoted statement.
Your point is that because Couscous isn't personally an elementary school teacher, that... what? No elementary school teacher could instruct a student why it's bad to not accept other people?
I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at here. Would it be different if we said teachers couldn't talk about blacks? Or Muslims? Part of instructing students is teaching them about the society they live in; intentionally excluding segments of that only reinforces bigotry.
...You're not allowed to talk about X people. That's why the law is fucked up
Now, when a teacher sees a kid being mocked as "gay", they have no way of explaining to the children that there's nothing wrong with being gay and that it's not a slur.
Also known as the Let's Give The ACLU A Mild Workout Act.
obsolete signature form
replaced by JPEGs.
I'm not sure why it's difficult to understand that institutionalizing the marginalization of a class of people and barring discussion of what is a major human rights issue is a bad thing.
http://www.factn.org/education/anti-bullying-bill-protecting-all-students-while-preserving-constitutional-rights.htm
You can follow the links there to go to the full text. Some excerpts:
House sponsor:
Rep. Vance Dennis
R-Savannah
District 71 — Hardin, McNairy and part of Decatur Counties — Map
district address
545 Cedar Cove Lane
Savannah 38372
nashville address
301 6th Avenue North
Suite 209A War Memorial Bldg.
Nashville TN 37243
Phone: (615) 741-2190
Fax: (615) 253-0377
rep.vance.dennis@capitol.tn.gov
Senate Sponsor:
Senator Jim Tracy
R-Shelbyville
District 16 — Bedford, Moore, and part of Rutherford Counties — Map
district address
106 Finch Lane
Shelbyville, TN 37160
nashville address
301 6th Avenue North
Suite 2 Legislative Plaza.
Nashville, TN 37243
Phone 615-741-1066
Fax 615-741-2255
sen.jim.tracy@capitol.tn.gov
Apparently there's a law of conservation of DADT policies
Someone mentioned it's unconstitutional, the same issue arose when Juan Williams was fired from NPR.
Mike Tomasky wrote a pretty good piece about the 1st amendment over at the Guardian. Are the situations at all similar?
Yeah, this. Basically, no kid would be allowed to say, "Hey, I'm gay" which some kids do want to do. I guess kids with gay parents also wouldn't be allowed to mention that fact. This law is trying to erase gays from the public consciousness. Plus it prevents educators from explicitly telling kids gayness isn't bad. Not only is this troubling within the context of bullying, but if a gay kid seeks out a teacher for support, the teacher can't tell the kid there's nothing wrong with him.
There's a lot of remarks about "kids don't listen to teachers! They will bully anyway!", and that is true of some kids. But when I was in grade/middle school my teachers were a huge influence; they were some of the first adults I regularly interacted with who weren't my parents, and who had ideas that weren't the same as my parents'. This made them very exciting people.
'We really want to encourage our kids to tell the fags that they're going to burn in a lake of fire forever and ever for thier devious attractions.'
And actually, it goes even beyond that. This bill is more about making a statement that homosexuals are still unwanted and dangerous. That's really what this is about. Putting the dirty faggots in thier place.
Seriously, they're trying to make sharia law illegal and the punishment for following it is 15 years in prison. The original bill called it a military doctrine and that it advocated jihad and should therefore be banned. They recently removed the phrases directly talking about muslims, but make no mistake that that's the only group they intend to turn into criminals.
So, when you read religions, philosophical or unpopular viewpoints they really do mean only Christian viewpoints.
The only sane person in the state government is the AG and that's only because he's appointed by the supreme court and if the nutters get their way he'll be elected too. They're pissed because he refused to join the healthcare lawsuit because he said national law will trump state law and he gave the opinion that the voter photo ID law would be unconstitutional unless the state offered a free photo ID (which is estimated to cost the state $200,000 and they're bitching about how the budget is out of wack :?).
So, I reiterate my desire for Sherman's ghost to lead another march.
... In Georgia?
Really I'm just irritated at how disgusting this place is. It's like watching the last dying breaths of a lost cause. You know they will lose in the future, but still every day you have to watch them take away more and more rights from minorities. I vote, I try to get around this crap, but when it happens over and over again, it gets depressing.
Just watching the cognitive dissonance these people practice is crazy. They'd freak out and scream persecution if someone tried to stop a church from being built, but they'll happily sue to stop a mosque from being built. They'd march on the capitol if someone dared to propose a law banning teachers from saying "Christ" or "Christian," but "gay" and "homosexual" well they're just trying to corrupt our kids.
State Sen. Bill Ketron, R-Murfreesboro, and state Rep. Judd Matheny, R-Tullahoma, introduced the same bill in the Senate and House last week. It calls Shariah law a danger to homeland security and gives the attorney general authority to investigate complaints and decide who's practicing it.
It exempts peaceful practice of Islam but labels any adherence to Shariah law — which includes religious practices such as feet washing and prayers — as treasonous. It claims Shariah adherents want to replace the Constitution with their religious law.
I'm sure they do.
All 17 of them.
There's nothing wrong with fighting the establishment of parallel and extralegal courts. That's not a "sharia" thing so much as a tribal or local thing, and I would imagine is already illegal anywhere that has a functioning court system. That might be assuming a lot for Tennessee, though.
But banning worship is bonkers.
I wish I was joking, but it really is that fucked up. Basically you have little pockets of sanity in Nashville, but they are quickly overrun by the overwhelming number of rural areas. Like Nashville tries to protect gay and transgender employees, by requiring contractors with them to have written statements in their code protecting them from discrimination. The rest of the state flips its lid because ZOMG GAYS! and tries to crush it through state legislation. Nevermind that 99% of them will never set foot in Nashville nor will it have any affect on them, but if they're going to be bigots, by God everyone else is too.
Iowa GOP Tries To Impeach State Supreme Court Over Marriage Equality
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/iowa-gop-tries-impeach-state-supreme-court-over-marriage-equality