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The number one problem with America...

RPGGamerRPGGamer Registered User
edited March 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
In my opinion, the biggest problem with the United States is that people no longer trust our government. The federal government has lost all of it's credibility, lies to the people, doesn't represent the people, and is far too powerful. Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people. Our elected officials actually cared and were real people like you and me, not people like Obama or Bush or any of these clowns in Congress.

And to be honest, the people are partially responsible for this. Yes, it is important for the federal government to have some power, as to preserve the union, but we're hardly a union anymore, now we're just a single nation-state just like Russia or France. We're not a union or a confederation. People rely on the federal government for everything, instead of relying on their state governments.

The Constitution is a joke now, it's a wonderful document, but our own government only abides by it when it is convenient for them to do so. They have the CIA out there killing our own people simply because they "know too much," we have wiretapping and the Patriot Act. We have them keeping secrets from us and committing acts that are detrimental to the lives of Americans. We have horrible liberals who want to ban guns. We have abusive police forces and corrupt public officials who don't listen to the people. We need an honest government again, one that fully understands and respects the Constitution and that is by the people and for the people.

RPGGamer on
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Posts

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Immigrants! That's what they do you know. Just drive around in their low-riders shooting all the jobs!

    electricitylikesme on
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote: »
    Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people. Our elected officials actually cared and were real people like you and me, not people like Obama or Bush or any of these clowns in Congress.

    This is extremely ignorant. The only periods in American History where people trusted the government were the quarters following Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

    You're waxing nostalgic over shit that never existed.

    Deebaser on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    I think your nation's mad adherence to the imperial system of measurements outweighs these concerns significantly.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Deebaser I would also argue that there was a fair amount of government centered trust during the periods of the New Deal, but I admittedly don't know a lot about political history.

    If I am wrong feel free to correct me!

    Arch on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Imperial units, imperial foreign policy

    It's a fact

    Prove me wrong

    Robman on
  • RPGGamerRPGGamer Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    Imperial units, imperial foreign policy

    It's a fact

    Prove me wrong

    Imperialism has done great things for America. True story.

    RPGGamer on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    Also, it may be cliche but I don't think we can go past Two and A Half Men being the worst thing about the US. I don't care if its been cancelled, you allowed it to happen in the first place. You're all tainted.

    There's probably some deeper commentary in there for those who care to unpack it.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The Cat wrote: »
    Also, it may be cliche but I don't think we can go past Two and A Half Men being the worst thing about the US. I don't care if its been cancelled, you allowed it to happen in the first place. You're all tainted.

    There's probably some deeper commentary in there for those who care to unpack it.

    I take it you were never subjected to our attempt at Kath & Kim...

    firewaterword on
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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
    The Cat wrote: »
    I think your nation's mad adherence to the imperial system of measurements outweighs these concerns significantly.

    If we switched to metric, everyone's penis would get bigger.

    That might actually solve America.

    JustinSane07 on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    People aren't voting.

    Cantido on
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  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Arch wrote: »
    Deebaser I would also argue that there was a fair amount of government centered trust during the periods of the New Deal, but I admittedly don't know a lot about political history.

    If I am wrong feel free to correct me!

    You are right that the new deal was wildly popular, but I'm probably getting a slightly different read on the OP, where he harkens back to a simpler time, when people trusted the government and children respected their elders and other such nonsense that never really happened.

    While the New Deal was popular, the government was not nearly as popular as when we are gripped by bloodlust. Hell, FDR even had a Father Coughlin, a Glenn Beck prototype calling him a godless socialist.

    So we're both correct, we're just using different measuring sticks. As you are the scientist, I will concede the metric ruler to you.

    Deebaser on
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  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    Well, the reason that people trusted the government back in the 1700's was that you had a proper government. It was called King George. Downhill ever since.

    Bogart on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Arch wrote: »
    Deebaser I would also argue that there was a fair amount of government centered trust during the periods of the New Deal, but I admittedly don't know a lot about political history.

    If I am wrong feel free to correct me!
    Actually, part of the reason the New Deal came into being was the fact that the country had lost all faith in the government during the runup to the Depression. It's hard to maintain public support when you're doing things like demolishing tent cities full of veterans with military tanks.

    FDR got some measure of trust from folks, but it's arguable that it was due as much to his being a wartime president in pre-Information Age America as it was the actual New Deal stuff. The New Deal itself was immensely popular, but it's hard to erase 20 years of government explicitly fucking over the little guy.

    OptimusZed on
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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'd say it's a combination of military industrial complex, right-wing fear mongering, and Two and a Half Men, now conveniently playing on F/X ten times a day, a network owned by an Australian mostly responsible for the first two points in this post.

    Sentry on
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Bogart wrote: »
    Well, the reason that people trusted the government back in the 1700's was that you had a proper government. It was called King George. Downhill ever since.

    The US's base problem is we were founded by rich rednecks who didn't want to pay their taxes

    nexuscrawler on
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited March 2011
    I think it's the loss of community, by which I mean the psychosocial phenomenon and not the show, Community, which is excellent and which has been renewed for another year. God Bless America.

    Tiger Burning on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Americans have always been skeptical of the government.

    Ironically, we've lately stopped being skeptical as a culture of the stuff that really deserves skepticism, like the military industrial complex and privatization of services.

    OptimusZed on
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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote: »
    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the United States is that people no longer trust our government. The federal government has lost all of it's credibility, lies to the people, doesn't represent the people, and is far too powerful. Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people. Our elected officials actually cared and were real people like you and me, not people like Obama or Bush or any of these clowns in Congress.

    And to be honest, the people are partially responsible for this. Yes, it is important for the federal government to have some power, as to preserve the union, but we're hardly a union anymore, now we're just a single nation-state just like Russia or France. We're not a union or a confederation. People rely on the federal government for everything, instead of relying on their state governments.

    The Constitution is a joke now, it's a wonderful document, but our own government only abides by it when it is convenient for them to do so. They have the CIA out there killing our own people simply because they "know too much," we have wiretapping and the Patriot Act. We have them keeping secrets from us and committing acts that are detrimental to the lives of Americans. We have horrible liberals who want to ban guns. We have abusive police forces and corrupt public officials who don't listen to the people. We need an honest government again, one that fully understands and respects the Constitution and that is by the people and for the people.

    Yes in the 1700 and 1800s people trusted the federal government. Especially people like
    kunta_kinte.gif
    I mean
    kunta%2Bkinte.jpg
    and
    confederate-soldiers.jpg

    But its true, the solution to a government that oppresses its citizens is always states rights. Local and state governments are known for being fair minded and kind to its less popular citizens and the federal government just gets in the way.
    A public hygiene program from Birmingham birmingham63-firehose.jpg
    Gestapo Feds invading our schools!
    l_hist00056_little_rock_nine02.jpg

    PantsB on
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  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote: »
    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the United States is that people no longer trust our government. The federal government has lost all of it's credibility, lies to the people, doesn't represent the people, and is far too powerful. Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government

    1860-1865 say hello.

    And that's just the most facile example I can come up with. There were also several minor (but armed) rebellions in the late 1700s, a few plots surrounding the War of 1812 (the background of the Hartford Convention is informative here), rampant corruption (Teapot-Dome Scandal) and incompetence (Reconstruction and Compromise of 1877) following the Civil War, the Red Scares in the 20s and 50s, etc.

    Edit: Also the civil rights stuff in the 50s and 60s, women's rights, worker's rights...I can keep going on.

    Short version: Things today aren't any worse than they've ever been - now you just know about it.

    a5ehren on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote: »
    Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people
    ...except such conspiracies as massive corruption on the level of guys like Harding and Grant, robber barons, horrible attacks on unions and workers, slavery and Jim Crow laws afterwards, genocide against the Indians, etc. And people trusted the government? Uhh, American Civil War? Mudslinging in presidential campaigns that made current ones look like a campaign between Jesus and Captain America? Three out of four presidential assassinations and most of the failed attempts?

    Personally, I think the current form of neoconservatism is the greatest threat to America. It manifests in disastrous financial policies and ridiculous babying of the rich, ridiculous military spending and disastrous military operations, religious infringement in private issues, general racism, the worst prison system in the world and some sort of bizarre crusade against opinions and statements that are based on logical thinking and proof instead of emotional appeals.

    DarkCrawler on
  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Speaking of metrics, I don't consider "trust in government" to be a particularly useful one here. Some of the most heinous shit in human history has gone down because the people of a nation had too much trust in their government.

    DivideByZero on
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The US's base problem is we were founded by rich rednecks who didn't want to pay their taxes
    Personally, I think the current form of neoconservatism is the greatest threat to America. It manifests in disastrous financial policies and ridiculous babying of the rich, ridiculous military spending and disastrous military operations, religious infringement in private issues, general racism, the worst prison system in the world and some sort of bizarre crusade against opinions and statements that are based on logical thinking and proof instead of emotional appeals.


    These things.

    Hexmage-PA on
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  • Orochi_RockmanOrochi_Rockman __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2011
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    The US's base problem is we were founded by rich rednecks who didn't want to pay their taxes
    Personally, I think the current form of neoconservatism is the greatest threat to America. It manifests in disastrous financial policies and ridiculous babying of the rich, ridiculous military spending and disastrous military operations, religious infringement in private issues, general racism, the worst prison system in the world and some sort of bizarre crusade against opinions and statements that are based on logical thinking and proof instead of emotional appeals.


    These things.

    Their love affair with gutting education at every possible turn doesn't help much either.

    Orochi_Rockman on
  • 21stCentury21stCentury Bismuth OS Fully Operational 2019-07-12 - KeystoneRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seems to me like the real problem with America isn't lack of trust with the government but the really sad state of affairs regarding distribution of wealth. The middle class is eroding away and it's not because they're moving on up.

    21stCentury on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Short version: Things today aren't any worse than they've ever been - now you just know about it.

    OHHHHH I get it. Its a meta-thread.

    As in the number one problem with America is large segments of its population being short sighted and ignorant of its actual history. Those who remain ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it and so it follows that those who choose our path retain only wildly skewed, inaccurate views of history disconnected from any actual current context or reality are doom us to a path of based on ignorance and wildly inaccurate views. Right?

    PantsB on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote: »
    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the United States is that people no longer trust our government. The federal government has lost all of it's credibility, lies to the people, doesn't represent the people, and is far too powerful. Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people. Our elected officials actually cared and were real people like you and me, not people like Obama or Bush or any of these clowns in Congress.

    And to be honest, the people are partially responsible for this. Yes, it is important for the federal government to have some power, as to preserve the union, but we're hardly a union anymore, now we're just a single nation-state just like Russia or France. We're not a union or a confederation. People rely on the federal government for everything, instead of relying on their state governments.

    The Constitution is a joke now, it's a wonderful document, but our own government only abides by it when it is convenient for them to do so. They have the CIA out there killing our own people simply because they "know too much," we have wiretapping and the Patriot Act. We have them keeping secrets from us and committing acts that are detrimental to the lives of Americans. We have horrible liberals who want to ban guns. We have abusive police forces and corrupt public officials who don't listen to the people. We need an honest government again, one that fully understands and respects the Constitution and that is by the people and for the people.

    Except distrust of the government isn't anything new. From the very early days of our government there has been massive distrust. Shay's and the Whiskey Rebellion, the Teapot Dome Scandal, the Crédit Mobilier scandal, the view of the Federal Reserve, and pretty much every day of Harding's administration all come to mind as things that have made the people distrustful of the government. The idea that this is new is very, very wrong and often mentioned in the same breath that politics have gotten worse.

    And the United States has been a single country since the constitution was signed. We did try a confederacy like you seem to think we should be. It was abandoned within a few years because it was a fucking retarded idea. Getting the founding fathers to all agree on anything was damn near impossible but they overwhelmingly agree that the US being a confederation of states rather then a single nation was a fucking stupid idea.

    Thomamelas on
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The Cat wrote: »
    I think your nation's mad adherence to the imperial system of measurements outweighs these concerns significantly.

    I agree. If the USA is so insistent on the imperial system, then bars need to start serving proper imperial pints, none of this 16oz non-sense.

    To the government concerns, our nation was founded upon the fact that any form of government couldn't be trusted by the governed.

    thatassemblyguy on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I thought the biggest problem was all these secular, Muslim extremist, union bosses aborting too many children and short changing the social security system?

    Guess I should stop listening to the republican presidential hopefuls. Or, at least, stop listening to them all at the same time.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The biggest problem in the US is that people don't understand what the policies of the various parties actually mean in relation to them.

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    If you sit down and read the Constitution, it's pretty obvious that distrust of the government (even a theoretical, non-existent government) was at its all-time high in the 1700s.

    KalTorak on
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Historically, the biggest problem is Conservatives.

    Recently, the biggest problem is a corrupt Supreme Court. Bribing congressmen is free speech? Oooookay.

    Someone needs to go over Scalia's finances with a fine tooth comb STAT.

    Derrick on
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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The biggest problem in America is twits who didn't get a decent goddamned education and instead just got told how awesome the Founding <omg, 1min, blowjob> Fathers were and how great things used to be in general.

    Seriously. See Thom's post for a very, very short list of "fuck the government" sentiment in the past. See also: Nullification Crisis, Civil War.

    [ed] Or Derrick's first sentence. Short, sweet and to the point.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The Cat wrote: »
    I think your nation's mad adherence to the imperial system of measurements outweighs these concerns significantly.

    I agree. If the USA is so insistent on the imperial system, then bars need to start serving proper imperial pints, none of this 16oz non-sense.

    To the government concerns, our nation was founded upon the fact that any form of government couldn't be trusted by the governed.

    The worst is when you order a pint and they hand you some tiddly 12 oz mug of beer. Magically it still costs 5 bucks, fucking wankers.

    Robman on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    RPGGamer wrote:
    Back in the 1700s and 1800s people trusted the government and the government didn't have all of these conspiracies they were performing against the American people.

    Somebody said the secret word!

    If we're going down that road, let's talk the 1875 Whiskey Ring Conspiracy: bunch of Republicans siphoning millions of tax dollars to themselves.

    Octoparrot on
    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The single biggest problem with America is that I'm not in charge of it.

    But if we're going to rule out dictatorships run by forumers, magic mind control to make everyone smart and rational (which is really just a magic dictatorship that isn't interested in the ethical complications psychic powers pose), and any other generic "blargle blargle people don't vote how I like people don't trust the government nobody believes in God people wear their pants too low not enough charity too many taxes not enough spending where are my pants why is it so hot oh there my pants are what was I saying hargle blargle"--

    then the biggest problem is monetary policy. Sorry for having boring problems, world! Check out some of those European countries, they have gigantic sex party scandals. What do we have? Bad financial policy. Yawn.

    PotatoNinja on
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  • Torso BoyTorso Boy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I think the biggest problem in the Western world (E: well, aside from poverty) is pervasive and profound political, philosophical and historical illiteracy. Another biggie is conservative bias. OP, thank you for effectively illustrating both.

    It is totally fair to have complaints about the democratic deficit in the US, it's a real problem. It's also a real problem faced by ever democracy. But it's important to realize that government is gradually getting better, not worse.

    Gapminder.org is a good place to go whenever you feel that twinge of conservative bias. In 1800, the US GDP/capita, adjusted for inflation, was under $2000, and life expectancy was under 40 years. In 1900, it was over $7000 and almost 50 years. In 2000, it was almost $40000 and 77 years.

    Democratically speaking, in 1860, about 1/8 of th population was enslaved, and women didn't have the vote. Suffrage for 3/8 of the country, definitely way more democratic. Definitely a trustworthy government.

    So, OP, opinions are fine, but you do not know what you are talking about. Don't pretend that you do.

    Torso Boy on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2011
    Things sure do suck here in <insert current year>! Not like back in <insert some year in the past> when everything was great because <choose one: taxes were lower / people loved their country / people loved God / people loved proper music / people made music about loving god and their country / people wore belts / there were less wars / there were more wars / there was Star Wars / there was no internet / there was no TV / there was no printing press / there was no fire / the server wasn't too busy>!

    ElJeffe on
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  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I wish more people would vote. Like, 100%

    McAllen on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    You forgot /girls didn't dress like that.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Things sure do suck here in <insert current year>! Not like back in <insert some year in the past> when everything was great because <choose one: taxes were lower / people loved their country / people loved God / people loved proper music / people made music about loving god and their country / people wore belts / there were less wars / there were more wars / there was Star Wars / there was no internet / there was no TV / there was no printing press / there was no fire / the server wasn't too busy>!

    Okay, that last part is true.

    Feral on
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