The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
Harper Politics: Opposition Mustache, Iggy-popped
Posts
I went to a rally to impress a girl once.
Then she talked about how her boyfriend would shoot a porn video starring her when she turned 18 and I decided she was a total slutbitch.
I'm not posting stuff for you. Post your own damn stuff.
TBH I only expected Newblar to. The rest of you were just be BCCed because you were only who made meaningful contributions to the discussion (as opposed to personal attacks, though Robman is now leaning towards the later). In the event that no one posted it, I wanted at least you 8 to know my response.
I have a new phone so I lost your digits.
A right wing frenchy VS a left wing anglo.. I feel like this could be a good convo
It's not that, I think, we're all maniacally opposed to the concept of an interest-free economy. It's that darkphoenix22 doesn't actually contribute anything; he's just like a direct pipe from the general Internet into this thread. His "contribution" is "starting" a "discussion" by saying something ridiculous, like, "We should just send all the black people back to Africa," then linking and misrepresenting through quotation what seems to be like the first Google link for "send blacks back to Africa". And then when you call him out on the doubly ridiculous premises of a) his "discussion" starter and b) his sophism, he questions why you aren't contributing to his "discussion".
It's like... there's no intelligence there. He's like a well-crafted spam bot. He would fail a Turing test.
Could a Western-style society exist with an interest-free economy? I don't know. It's an interesting question to ponder, for me at least, but I don't think I know enough about economics to work that one out. I *definitely* know he doesn't know enough economics to have the discussion with me, and I *super-definitely* know it won't realistically happen, despite his entreaties for me to ... I dunno, go protest about it outside... somewhere... with some other people... at some time. I don't even know if I'd want it, in the first place.
I'm not king of the thread though do what you want. :P
man what
It reeks of first year college student.
The $5M cap on its own would only effect extremely large businesses as everyone else will have this money invested in cash equivalents. Businesses that keep $5M sitting in a bank account do so to cover short term operating expenses.
Having to constantly rely on new venture capital would dilute existing ownership. If you ever have the misfortune of having to take a finance class you will get to see that there is an optimal mix for how much debt versus equity companies should have due to cost so your idea of eliminating interest would actually increase financing costs for corporations.
While I would like to see bank profits be lower in Canada, contrary to popular opinion banks provide a value added service with lending. Lending is a surprisingly complex field that requires specialization. This is why even though it can be extremely lucrative we don’t see every company with decent financial assets going through the steps to open a bank. Venture capitalism has similar issues and while the industries like bio tech may have a fair number of people willing to invest who wants to invest in Joe’s Fried Chicken.
We don’t actually have the technology for this. While we do have the technology to send money from one party to another we don’t have anything set up to introduce, connect and agree on terms between two parties at this scale or complexity. I think some of the micro transaction lenders some of which may even be non profit that focus on third world countries may have the begins for something like this but defiantly at a much smaller scale.
Traditional household financing in a non-profit credit union would not eliminate the need for interest. To break even credit unions would still have to charge something for the processing, time value of money and defaults.
Even if none of what I’ve typed is applicable you would still have to handle a huge financing shortfall. Banks only keep a fraction of their deposits and lend and then relend the rest of it out. Its actually kind of ridiculous how much they can end up lending out, check out “money multiplier” sometime. This has a huge effect on our country’s monetary policy and for the most part works due to how few and how highly regulated our banks are. Replacing them with thousands of individuals and organizations probably wouldn’t work out so well.
Please do, while I don`t agree with everything you post you`ve demonstrated a better overall understanding of economics than I have. You can maybe handle the money multiplier issue that I`m having alot of trouble recalling as I haven`t had to deal with it for about 3 years and even then it was pretty brief.
Take yourself back to the 13th century; nobody's invented modern banking yet (that would have to wait for the Dutch Empire, sometime in the 1600s). All loans are made out of private, individual stores of wealth, and thus must produce a return perceptible within that individual's personal timeframe - and thus the cost of obtaining funds (the rate of interest) is extremely high compared to what we are used to today.
That, in itself, would not be a problem, except that (this being the 13th century), we all live in agricultural economies which are subject to volatile shocks, like the weather. In the face of bad weather, borrow or starve. Mostly this works out okay, but sometimes bad weather persists for a few years and then the loan becomes unpayable. To meet the astronomically compounded costs, tenant farmers sell themselves into serfdom. Since bad weather occurs unpredictably and on a widespread geographical basis, we have waves of tenants selling themselves into serfdom. Obviously, this is not a desirable state of affairs.
The Islamic prohibition on usury was one social innovation toward resolving this problem. Instead of the borrower taking a loan and all the risk, the borrower permanently sells a share of future income, thus implicitly paying an even higher expected rate of interest but having the risk spread out by legal fiat. A modern equivalent would be demanding that whenever you take a loan, you also purchase insurance (from the bank) against being your income being affected in a way that may force you to default. That's it. With Islamic banking, you still pay a fee for obtaining a loan; it's just that you pay in it another form which obliges the bank to take on risk and obliges you to pay the bank a higher implicit rate to compensate it for taking on the risk. This isn't some miraculous wand that can wish away the basic problem of balancing credit and credit risk.
There are also interesting solutions present in Jewish law (for example): notice the similar philosophy in the restrictions on the types of collateral permissible (nothing that would permit destitution if the loan becomes unpayable). The modern Western approach to the problem has three prongs:
- intergenerational savings banks which pay interest on lifetime savings, which vastly increased the supply of loanable funds and thus sent the interest rate plunging downwards (recognizably modern form established by the Dutch, sometime 1600s - previously you paid banks to secure your savings, not the other way around);
- financial entities which specialized in hedging risk, either via insurance (1600s, by the English) or via futures contracts, so that you don't have to hedge risk on an individual basis (mid-1800s, in the US)
- modern bankruptcy (for individuals) and limited liability (for corporation shareholders) which prevent unexpected excessive debt from destroying individual human liberty and earning power/organized valuable capital, instead forcing liquidation; both circa 1700s
which, put together, do generally and effectively deal with the problem. Notice that Islamic banking is a strict subset of what is generally permissible within this wider Western framework - as noted above, your creditor just takes on a share of the risk. But insofar as we believe in benefits from specialization, there's no reason for your loan provider to be the same as your risk hedger; we don't live in a feudal society where there are only a handful of capitalists who you can borrow from. If you wanted to achieve all the benefits of Islamic banking, just coerce would-be borrowers to buy insurance. And if you want everyone to buy into risk-spreading insurance, you can use this other Western innovation called "the welfare state"...
I refuse to believe that anything that happens on facebook is news.
This is just lazy reporting.
On the other hand, it's also the most freedom of expression any Tory MP has had in years.
It's not even an MP. It's some junior staffer who is working on Dona Cadman's campaign in Surrey.
How is that even news worthy?
And probably the last. I predict a government wide block of Facebook.
Oh, you're right. For some reason I thought it was a backbencher MP who'd made the statement. I don't know how I got that idea. Weird.
Tories are up in Ontario, sure. But they're facing increasing pressure from the Liberals everywhere else (excepting Alberta, of course). This is a very dangerous game they're playing - many of the seats in Manitoba and BC are won with only 5-10% margins. The Tories might take Brampton, but they're on track to lose a fair number of seats in the West.
to figure out just how full retard that sounds.
Also, DP said he was going to stop doing that shit in the last Canadian Politics thread, so we can see how long his promises last, I just skim past his inane shit now.
"Contacted by telephone, Phillips refused to comment on his posting, saying it would "not be the best career move."
LOL what career.
He does have a point that if the SUN which is ready to get down on its knees and slurp for pretty much whatever the CONS do have a problem with this then you're probably doing something wrong.
It never ceases to amaze me what people will put up on the web under their own name. If you wouldn't say this stuff in front of someone you don't know with a tape recorder running you probably shouldn't put it on the internet.
But what do you expect from a Conservative? That dude is probably a Merlot drinker.
It's a woman, and my girlfriend and I both totally support a Shiraz law. And the problem is that the people who vote around here think like that so it's a hard fight to get any real change made here.
Bit of an update:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-LY98v5IQQ
Maa-nulth First Nations Treaty Becomes a Reality
I hope to take video of the next batch of fireworks we plan on celebrating with, plus I hope someone puts of some vid of my friend's speech and the Hit-tat-soo dancers/singers.
Wolverine, can you give a bit of a summary of what the treaty entails for us non locals who have no idea and don't want to try and parse a government document? Sounds like congratulations are in some form of order though.
This is giving me a interesting perspective, here are all these various Canadians during the election who side with Conservatives because they claim they will lower taxes and not raise them, yet here are people who having been without that community pooling of resources have realized the need to raise taxes and to do so in such a way as to not toss people out of the community unless absolutely necessary. If there is one thing I am most definitely admiring in the Liberal platform this fed election is acknowledging the need to raise taxes and better family oriented social programs like universal and carefully monitored daycare ... though it does seem a bit like it would be better if we could find more ways not to be the working poor so we didn't have to work 2 or 3 jobs at once leaving us with no spare time to look after the kids and impacting our health (physically and mentally) when we never take breaks.
I wonder if anyone will take up the banner of universal dental, I know from my own hard ships how much bad teeth can affect ones over all health and how hard it is to live with because you can't afford the dentist's bills unless they take me on as a charity case in the way they let me slowly pay the bill off.
Actually, the CPC doesnt have many vulnerable ridings in Western Canada.
The closest CPC seat in Manitoba is St Boniface, which was won by 11pts.
Saskatoon Rosetown is the only close race in SK. It was won by 0.96% over the NDP. Liberals are a non factor in this riding.
BC doesn't have many close races either. I see 4 CPC ridings that are vulnerable : Van Island North was won by 4% over the NDP , Liberals not a factor. Surrey North was won by 3% over the NDP. Saanich Gulf Island was won by 4% over the Liberals. North Vancouver was won by 5% over the Liberals.
The Libs also have to worry about defending the seats they do have : Juan de Fuca was won by 0.13%, Vancouver South by 0.05%, Newtown North by 5%. Van Quadra and Van Centre were both won by 9% so those should be safe.
Also, yes I completely agree with the idea of universal dental.
Despite him campaigning on the "sanctity of marriage" earlier
I think we can trust him, he seems legit
And Harper just looks bored all the time.
Except here:
Jesus.
Those are legitimate concerns and straight up, well, you haven't been the only one watching Horse Lake and Hobema (and many other places) and I do dare to hope here in Hittatsoo will be vastly different. I am not sure how many details I can go into openly just yet but suffice it to say, the people here have been getting some very good advice and there are checks and balances of a sort in the way the election process is going for the Legislature and while it runs as well. Around here, they have already taken steps for there to be a division between the economic development and the political process development but by the nature of small communities the two do still bleed over into each other from time to time but its certainly frowned upon. Some people just make shit up though, thinking that certain families are in control when what is really going down is the others complaining just aren't making any effort and trying to shift blame on to those trying to do something to better everyone's lives. That's kind of a generational problem due to the heinous acts carried out by previous Canadian government policy with things like the racist "child protection" services and residential schools that tore families apart and set people up from a child development stage to be more susceptible to addictions, mental problems, sexual abuse, and financial disarray (thank god one great mother kept her family together by hiding her children when the gov agents would come around) but through education it should be surmountable. Culture, language, and art are making come backs and some like my wife have overcome these obstacles to get more college education than I could lay claim to through hard work and sacrifice even with taking advantage of educational grants and bursaries that I am convinced should really be something all Canadians should be able to access better with a Universal Vocational/College/Uni Education system better than what we currently do with student loans, something more akin to the EI retraining grants that take into account the inflated cost of living while trying better oneself through education. Even with what she got she still had to work 2 jobs to get by. My lady has grit and grace
Plus their finances are going to be very interesting, as in they are funding a ridiculously awesome portfolio that will help their government sustain itself with the interest and dividends they earn from it. It frankly blew me away when I found out about it, seriously, these people are going to get along just fine over the long haul and be a shining beacon for the rest of Canada, just you wait and see. You know, barring a tsunami/earthquake combo coming along but hopefully we will have some better roads and emergency supplies built up for the eventuality by then. In fact, in the presentation on the future of the finances, shit, it was expressed that it scared the negotiators of other treaties because it was so well done and the feds took that off the table in the other negotiations (fuck you Conservatives, again). It kinda scared the current moron chief and council as well, who are mostly the kind of greedy bastards you and I would be concerned about, but the good guys already had it ratified before they could fuck it up just so they could send out $2000 checks during implementation to all the members, which hasn't had the desired result of lifting up a community together in the past. Well, they are the Legistalature now but elections are coming soon despite them trying to delay it, we'll try to retain and get the other good guys back in the ministerial positions serving the people like they were mandated to by the constitution - which is seriously awesome, it has a "plain language" clause and a open information/whistle blower clause that would make Wikileaks obsolete. And if it doesn't work out as intended, we can hold constitutional referendums.
And just to nail it home how awesome these people are, even though I am "white" (see: hungarian/welsh/scottish/irish/? mutt), I am allowed to apply for citizenship here to help out my lady love and daughter. Another "white" (see: Portuguese) husband is planning on applying as well. And we have family surfing days. And they built a daycare center and a health clinic on a baseball field. And when Don Burnstick (a comedian) dropped by when we were ratifying the constitution he praised this place as the most beautiful, clean, happy community he had visited in all his travels (and I am sure those tears were real).
And this is a artistic rendering of some construction they have planned:
Not sure what the other Maa-nulth member nations have planned but I am sure they can come up with some awesome sauce as well.
Oh and one for the road, fuck Harper & the Cons for being opposed to awesome sauce like this, the power hungry, anti-democratic bastards.