I know it seems like a silly thing to complain about, but it really does bother me. I don't understand how they could release a Star Wars MMO and not go, "Well, we're going to need playable Rodians, Wookiees, Ithorians, ...," and have to force themselves to cull the number at some point. Instead, they implemented different species in the laziest way possible. It's like they don't even understand the sort of people who are still into Star Wars. I can imagine them sitting around a large desk, checking off a list of things that they need to have in order to compete with WoW, and once they release they need more race options in the game that human, they start panicking. It's hilarious to me that one of the exotic, non-human species is literally, "a human with no hair and tattoos on their face". That's it. Nerds will recognize the race as "Rattataki", a species entirely designed around a tertiary character known as Assaj Ventress. The funny thing is, her origins were recently retconned so that she is not even a member of the species anymore. So what was a lazy design based on a secondary, unimportant character, is now a lazy design based on nothing.
But I suppose it's not like this is something the average person is going to care about. Everyone just wants to be Han Solo and Luke Skywalker anyway.
I wonder if they looked at the percentage of players who played different species in SWG and made decisions based on that. I'd say Human, Zabrak and Twi'leks were easily the most commonly played species and probably accounted for a good 75 percent of all players.
The "ugly" alien races just weren't played that much. You could go weeks without seeing a player Mon Cal. The few that played Rodians and Bothans tended to be famous on their servers. And Trandoshans and Wookiees were a bit more common, but were mostly used by min-max types because their racial bonuses gave them an advantage in certain professions (like BH or the melee/fencer builds).
(btw I wonder if TOR will have the Lekku language in game. One of the cool things about SWG was Twi'leks could communicate with each other in a language using their lekku - and nobody else could understand).
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I was pretty bummed about no playable Kel Dor. Kel Dor + the Trooper healing tree would have allowed me to recreate my old SW PnP character down to a T.
I know Bioware wants to push the romance option, they always do. And judging by the DA/ME forums, there's definitely an audience that eats that shit up.
For me, it's a 'cheeve unlock and a chance to get up and go get a snack. I find their romantic cutscenes silly and absurd.
Their reasons... well, honestly? Don't make a lick of sense to me. If you're able to make something compelling, a person can relate to ANYTHING. It would have been nice to see them step away from their usual thing where you're a human in every damn game they make, and while of course a lot of the races we'll get to play aren't human they also aren't what they put it "a freak show".
There's actually alot of reasons why you don't want to have non humanoid races be playable.
Squicky romance scenes are the least of them. There's also issues with designing compatible gear for them, voice-over support, and animation issues. Post release development costs and time would most likely sky-rocket with them in, especially with a game like SW:TOR, which has a very diverse selection of gear.
It's not something you want to do early on, without a huge investment in resources and manpower ready to be devoted to it. SWG was a good example of this. The poor damn wookies didn't get decent armor support until relatively far into release.
Can't say I blame SW:TOR. At least we get the humanoid races like Twi'leks, Zabraks, that race that was Dooku's apprentice (It hasn't been publicized too much, but apparently you can play as them on the Imperial side.), Chiss, True Sith, etc, etc.
Really, there's about the same number of playable races there as most MMO's.
I have to agree with the sentiment of romance options in an MMO is just kinda silly. I understand it's BioWare but they need to realize that this isn't a single player game. If romance options are preventing me from playing non-humanoid races, then fucking get rid of them.
Can't wait until people start talking casually about TOR in public.
Squicky romance scenes are the least of them. There's also issues with designing compatible gear for them, voice-over support, and animation issues. Post release development costs and time would most likely sky-rocket with them in, especially with a game like SW:TOR, which has a very diverse selection of gear.
I was wondering how they'd do helmets and stuff for Twi'leks.
[L]ead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work.
This is basically it for alien races, and I agree. Add to that what others have mentioned: the challenge of kissing an Ithorian, the challenge of putting a helmet on an Ithorian, the challenge of voicing an Ithorian. I'm fine with being limited to playing a human-looking race.
This is basically it for alien races, and I agree. Add to that what others have mentioned: the challenge of kissing an Ithorian, the challenge of putting a helmet on an Ithorian, the challenge of voicing an Ithorian. I'm fine with being limited to playing a human-looking race.
But you've chosen (one of) the most extreme example(s) possible. Yeah, Ithorians would be a PitA for a lot of that. But there's a lot of less extreme humanoid races out there (Kel Dor, Nautolan) that judging by the polls on the SWTOR site, have a substantial backing of people who want to play them (which Ithorians do not).
To be honest, in all other MMOs, I only play Humans, ever, period. I think other races are silly.
But in this case ... this is Star Wars. There's a different intangible here when it comes to the other races. They're part of what makes the setting rich.
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Squicky romance scenes are the least of them. There's also issues with designing compatible gear for them, voice-over support, and animation issues. Post release development costs and time would most likely sky-rocket with them in, especially with a game like SW:TOR, which has a very diverse selection of gear.
I was wondering how they'd do helmets and stuff for Twi'leks.
I haven't heard anything about it yet. But given how the developer team has been handling things so far, I imagine either helmets (Which so far seem to be fully face covering outside of a few issues.) will ignore the issue of their head tentacles not fitting in, the races are being designed to work with the classes they're available for, or they'll just not show up when equipped.
The first and third options seem unlikely from a user happiness stand-point (SWG players gave devs an inordinate amount of shit for restricting armor slot usage based on race. Even if it was a stupid decision.). But the second is possible. Twi'leks so far have shown up as playable races for classes that'd work with that.
Hell, i'd pay money to see a Twi'lek smuggler with a cowboy hat on, mowing down Imperial Troopers.
Of course, I could be wrong. If you look through their videos, you'll notice we've yet to see a single Twi'lek wearing a head-piece bit of armor, despite pretty much everyone else wearing something up there in the actual gameplay trailers.
that has to be among the worst 5 minutes in television history.
You haven't seen anything yet. Here's the sanitized (Read: Worthwhile for comedy value.) version I usually post when people bring up Wookie speech being obnoxious.
The wookie speech is just the beginning of a long line of nonsensical, annoying, and quite frankly, disturbing (Eighty year old Wookie masturbation scene! ) things they put into that TV special.
Edit:
Interesting thing to note. At least one cast member has absolutely no memory of doing this special. Though, in defense (or not) of that cast member, she was probably coked out of her mind at the time.
This is basically it for alien races, and I agree. Add to that what others have mentioned: the challenge of kissing an Ithorian, the challenge of putting a helmet on an Ithorian, the challenge of voicing an Ithorian. I'm fine with being limited to playing a human-looking race.
But you've chosen (one of) the most extreme example(s) possible. Yeah, Ithorians would be a PitA for a lot of that. But there's a lot of less extreme humanoid races out there (Kel Dor, Nautolan) that judging by the polls on the SWTOR site, have a substantial backing of people who want to play them (which Ithorians do not).
To be honest, in all other MMOs, I only play Humans, ever, period. I think other races are silly.
But in this case ... this is Star Wars. There's a different intangible here when it comes to the other races. They're part of what makes the setting rich.
You have a good point on the Nautolan's especially, they seem like they'd be perfect. Still very humanoid, but there is no denying that they are aliens. Plus they would fit into their silly criteria in regards to the romance stuff.
And from what I've read, BioWare agrees with you on other races making the setting rich... but only as NPCs.
I'm kind of surprised they didn't put Torgruta in as a playable race, they seem pretty popular with the fans after the prequels and the newer clone wars CG series.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I watched the cinematic trailer with my gf and she thought it was okay but wondered if they were going to make any new music for it, since they were spending so much money on it.
I explained that trying that kind of originality would land them in the hottest of waters for being unstar warsey, even if they got john williams to do it, and she accepted that, but looked as unhappy about it as I feel.
I really hope they have the guts to make some really good new music. I don't want to hear the exciting symphony of all six movies for the entire game.
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
I'm kind of surprised they didn't put Torgruta in as a playable race, they seem pretty popular with the fans after the prequels and the newer clone wars CG series.
I was under the impression that they were just Twi'leks that didn't live on a shitty planet/weren't stereotyped as a "fan service race"/were more hippyish.
Doesn't seem like it'd be that good of a thing to add in for release. But I imagine they'll probably add them in sometime down the line anyways as DLC/an expansion race.
I'm kind of surprised they didn't put Torgruta in as a playable race, they seem pretty popular with the fans after the prequels and the newer clone wars CG series.
I was under the impression that they were just Twi'leks that didn't live on a shitty planet/weren't stereotyped as a "fan service race"/were more hippyish.
Doesn't seem like it'd be that good of a thing to add in for release. But I imagine they'll probably add them in sometime down the line anyways as DLC/an expansion race.
Different species, and don't think they even have that thing where they speak with their lekku. Got echo location from those horn-like montrals on the top of their heads too. They'd be neat to play.
I'm kind of surprised they didn't put Torgruta in as a playable race, they seem pretty popular with the fans after the prequels and the newer clone wars CG series.
I just can't ever take that race seriously after Clone Wars.
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
I watched the cinematic trailer with my gf and she thought it was okay but wondered if they were going to make any new music for it, since they were spending so much money on it.
I explained that trying that kind of originality would land them in the hottest of waters for being unstar warsey, even if they got john williams to do it, and she accepted that, but looked as unhappy about it as I feel.
I really hope they have the guts to make some really good new music. I don't want to hear the exciting symphony of all six movies for the entire game.
I think they're going for the perfect mix here. The Star Wars movies have possible the most iconic musical score ever, so why not make use of it?
Hearing that famous theme at just the right moment is nothing short of magical and will probably give me goosebumps for my whole life.
Their reasons... well, honestly? Don't make a lick of sense to me. If you're able to make something compelling, a person can relate to ANYTHING. It would have been nice to see them step away from their usual thing where you're a human in every damn game they make, and while of course a lot of the races we'll get to play aren't human they also aren't what they put it "a freak show".
He's saying we will only get humanoid races that make sense in the story.
You need something relatable, so no freaky-looking not-humanoid-at-all races.
And, more importantly, you need something that makes sense in the story. Since the stories are class-specific, the races need to be something that doesn't look completely out of place. Hence why shit like "Droid" is out since there's no way a bounty hunter droid goes running around without people going "Your a droid? WTF?!?!?". Same for Wookie or a bunch of other options.
Anything that would fit those 2 categories and isn't in is very likely just a "only so much time and money" thing.
I'm kind of surprised they didn't put Torgruta in as a playable race, they seem pretty popular with the fans after the prequels and the newer clone wars CG series.
What the hell is a Torgruta?
NM. I looked it up and said, "Alright, I can see why people would want that as a playable race."
Also, what about that green guy with the tentacles on his head that that. In the clonewars shorts he's got a battle scene where he's fighting underwater (because he can breath) and there are a couple in the prequal movies.
in one of the comic books, they run into a wookie with a "speech impediment" that can speak basic.
Actually, not in a comic. It's in the first Thrawn trilogy, and his speech impediment doesn't make it so he can speak Basic, it makes it so that his Shyriiwook pronunciation is easier for Leia to understand.
Also, what about that green guy with the tentacles on his head that that. In the clonewars shorts he's got a battle scene where he's fighting underwater (because he can breath) and there are a couple in the prequal movies.
I think they're going for the perfect mix here. The Star Wars movies have possible the most iconic musical score ever, so why not make use of it?
Hearing that famous theme at just the right moment is nothing short of magical and will probably give me goosebumps for my whole life.
werd
And the 20th Century Fox theme is always linked to Star Wars for me, no matter what movie it precedes. Always makes my heart flutter.
I think they're going for the perfect mix here. The Star Wars movies have possible the most iconic musical score ever, so why not make use of it?
Hearing that famous theme at just the right moment is nothing short of magical and will probably give me goosebumps for my whole life.
werd
And the 20th Century Fox theme is always linked to Star Wars for me, no matter what movie it precedes. Always makes my heart flutter.
I never thought about this before. I always wondered why that damn theme always got to me, now I know!
I think they're going for the perfect mix here. The Star Wars movies have possible the most iconic musical score ever, so why not make use of it?
Hearing that famous theme at just the right moment is nothing short of magical and will probably give me goosebumps for my whole life.
werd
And the 20th Century Fox theme is always linked to Star Wars for me, no matter what movie it precedes. Always makes my heart flutter.
Last week at the Hollywood Bowl there was a Star Wars concert hosted by Anthony Daniels. The very first thing they played was the 20th Century Fox Theme and everyone cheered. Not as much as they did when John Williams came out at the end and conducted the orchestra in the Imperial March, but it was close.
Also, what about that green guy with the tentacles on his head that that. In the clonewars shorts he's got a battle scene where he's fighting underwater (because he can breath) and there are a couple in the prequal movies.
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I wonder if they looked at the percentage of players who played different species in SWG and made decisions based on that. I'd say Human, Zabrak and Twi'leks were easily the most commonly played species and probably accounted for a good 75 percent of all players.
The "ugly" alien races just weren't played that much. You could go weeks without seeing a player Mon Cal. The few that played Rodians and Bothans tended to be famous on their servers. And Trandoshans and Wookiees were a bit more common, but were mostly used by min-max types because their racial bonuses gave them an advantage in certain professions (like BH or the melee/fencer builds).
(btw I wonder if TOR will have the Lekku language in game. One of the cool things about SWG was Twi'leks could communicate with each other in a language using their lekku - and nobody else could understand).
Empire - Veela Server
I know Bioware wants to push the romance option, they always do. And judging by the DA/ME forums, there's definitely an audience that eats that shit up.
For me, it's a 'cheeve unlock and a chance to get up and go get a snack. I find their romantic cutscenes silly and absurd.
And for that, I can't have my favorite race?
Their reasons... well, honestly? Don't make a lick of sense to me. If you're able to make something compelling, a person can relate to ANYTHING. It would have been nice to see them step away from their usual thing where you're a human in every damn game they make, and while of course a lot of the races we'll get to play aren't human they also aren't what they put it "a freak show".
Exactly. It would drive me nuts. And be a waste of many hours of VA done for your character.
aku chinko pa
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hoota hoota! HOOTINI!
damn it. there's a funny picture out there on the interwebs of leia kissing luke with a blue-glowie Obi-Wan in the background going "ohhhhh!"
Can't find it though.
Empire - Veela Server
There's actually alot of reasons why you don't want to have non humanoid races be playable.
Squicky romance scenes are the least of them. There's also issues with designing compatible gear for them, voice-over support, and animation issues. Post release development costs and time would most likely sky-rocket with them in, especially with a game like SW:TOR, which has a very diverse selection of gear.
It's not something you want to do early on, without a huge investment in resources and manpower ready to be devoted to it. SWG was a good example of this. The poor damn wookies didn't get decent armor support until relatively far into release.
Can't say I blame SW:TOR. At least we get the humanoid races like Twi'leks, Zabraks, that race that was Dooku's apprentice (It hasn't been publicized too much, but apparently you can play as them on the Imperial side.), Chiss, True Sith, etc, etc.
Really, there's about the same number of playable races there as most MMO's.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Or do it like KOTOR did. About a dozen or so "phrases" that repeat endlessly.
Manaan was such a joy to play through.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Can't wait until people start talking casually about TOR in public.
"Oh, you fucked Mako too? High five!"
I was wondering how they'd do helmets and stuff for Twi'leks.
That was fun. I remember watching that TV special as a kid. I forgot that Harvey Korman was in it.
This is basically it for alien races, and I agree. Add to that what others have mentioned: the challenge of kissing an Ithorian, the challenge of putting a helmet on an Ithorian, the challenge of voicing an Ithorian. I'm fine with being limited to playing a human-looking race.
Empire - Veela Server
But you've chosen (one of) the most extreme example(s) possible. Yeah, Ithorians would be a PitA for a lot of that. But there's a lot of less extreme humanoid races out there (Kel Dor, Nautolan) that judging by the polls on the SWTOR site, have a substantial backing of people who want to play them (which Ithorians do not).
To be honest, in all other MMOs, I only play Humans, ever, period. I think other races are silly.
But in this case ... this is Star Wars. There's a different intangible here when it comes to the other races. They're part of what makes the setting rich.
I haven't heard anything about it yet. But given how the developer team has been handling things so far, I imagine either helmets (Which so far seem to be fully face covering outside of a few issues.) will ignore the issue of their head tentacles not fitting in, the races are being designed to work with the classes they're available for, or they'll just not show up when equipped.
The first and third options seem unlikely from a user happiness stand-point (SWG players gave devs an inordinate amount of shit for restricting armor slot usage based on race. Even if it was a stupid decision.). But the second is possible. Twi'leks so far have shown up as playable races for classes that'd work with that.
Hell, i'd pay money to see a Twi'lek smuggler with a cowboy hat on, mowing down Imperial Troopers.
Of course, I could be wrong. If you look through their videos, you'll notice we've yet to see a single Twi'lek wearing a head-piece bit of armor, despite pretty much everyone else wearing something up there in the actual gameplay trailers.
You haven't seen anything yet. Here's the sanitized (Read: Worthwhile for comedy value.) version I usually post when people bring up Wookie speech being obnoxious.
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/15087-swchr
The wookie speech is just the beginning of a long line of nonsensical, annoying, and quite frankly, disturbing (Eighty year old Wookie masturbation scene!
Edit:
Interesting thing to note. At least one cast member has absolutely no memory of doing this special. Though, in defense (or not) of that cast member, she was probably coked out of her mind at the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQg9KgnjjA
(Skip to 3:09 for Harrison Ford looking really damn uncomfortable.)
You have a good point on the Nautolan's especially, they seem like they'd be perfect. Still very humanoid, but there is no denying that they are aliens. Plus they would fit into their silly criteria in regards to the romance stuff.
And from what I've read, BioWare agrees with you on other races making the setting rich... but only as NPCs.
I explained that trying that kind of originality would land them in the hottest of waters for being unstar warsey, even if they got john williams to do it, and she accepted that, but looked as unhappy about it as I feel.
I really hope they have the guts to make some really good new music. I don't want to hear the exciting symphony of all six movies for the entire game.
I was under the impression that they were just Twi'leks that didn't live on a shitty planet/weren't stereotyped as a "fan service race"/were more hippyish.
Doesn't seem like it'd be that good of a thing to add in for release. But I imagine they'll probably add them in sometime down the line anyways as DLC/an expansion race.
Different species, and don't think they even have that thing where they speak with their lekku. Got echo location from those horn-like montrals on the top of their heads too. They'd be neat to play.
I just can't ever take that race seriously after Clone Wars.
Everyone speaks Basic (English) in Star Wars anyway. That's a non-issue.
Except Wookies. And Rodians. And some droids. And Gammorreans. And several more I can't spell.
At the very least, they all mostly understand it.
http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/music-old-republic
I think they're going for the perfect mix here. The Star Wars movies have possible the most iconic musical score ever, so why not make use of it?
Hearing that famous theme at just the right moment is nothing short of magical and will probably give me goosebumps for my whole life.
Bothans off screen? maybe?
He's saying we will only get humanoid races that make sense in the story.
You need something relatable, so no freaky-looking not-humanoid-at-all races.
And, more importantly, you need something that makes sense in the story. Since the stories are class-specific, the races need to be something that doesn't look completely out of place. Hence why shit like "Droid" is out since there's no way a bounty hunter droid goes running around without people going "Your a droid? WTF?!?!?". Same for Wookie or a bunch of other options.
Anything that would fit those 2 categories and isn't in is very likely just a "only so much time and money" thing.
What the hell is a Torgruta?
NM. I looked it up and said, "Alright, I can see why people would want that as a playable race."
Also, what about that green guy with the tentacles on his head that that. In the clonewars shorts he's got a battle scene where he's fighting underwater (because he can breath) and there are a couple in the prequal movies.
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Actually, not in a comic. It's in the first Thrawn trilogy, and his speech impediment doesn't make it so he can speak Basic, it makes it so that his Shyriiwook pronunciation is easier for Leia to understand.
[Nerd off]
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
He's a Nautolan.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
werd
And the 20th Century Fox theme is always linked to Star Wars for me, no matter what movie it precedes. Always makes my heart flutter.
I never thought about this before. I always wondered why that damn theme always got to me, now I know!
Last week at the Hollywood Bowl there was a Star Wars concert hosted by Anthony Daniels. The very first thing they played was the 20th Century Fox Theme and everyone cheered. Not as much as they did when John Williams came out at the end and conducted the orchestra in the Imperial March, but it was close.
So he's got a shitload of tenticles and his name is Kit Fisto.
Jesus, he's like freaky-japanese-porn the character.