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The TV Thread: More for Less
Scrublet
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Important Specs
Size – Measured from opposite corners, this is the biggest factor in price of a TV
Native Contrast Ratio – The best contrast a display can produce between its whitest white and darkest black at a given instant. A great way to test this is a starfield scene…how white can the stars be versus the blackness of space at the same time? Remember: a high contrast ratio is still shitty if the darkest black it can display is light grey.
Dynamic Contrast Ratio – Bullshit. I put this up here because it’s often quoted, but this is a meaningless number. It refers to how black a COMPLETELY black screen can be versus the whiteness of a COMPLETELY white screen. How often do you watch a completely black screen? Exactly.
Display Resolution – 480i used to be the only resolution offered. DVDs made 480p possible if your TV could handle it. HDTV defined the 720p, 1080i, and 1080p standards. A chart at the bottom clarifies what resolution you need, but generally speaking if you’re under 50” a 720p TV is fine. But 1080p is not usually much more expensive either.
Deep Color/x.v.Color – These features are being tossed around right now, but at this point in time virtually nothing actually implements them. So while they’re nice to have for the future, don’t make a decision based on them.
Viewing Angle – Another bullshit figure. You can “view” a TV from any angle, so LCD manufacturers list angles up to 178 degrees. But your LCD will look substantially worse viewed off angle.
120/240 Hz – This can refer to two different things. In one sense it refers to a feature newer LCDs have that uses a faster refresh rate to avoid the classic motion blur problem. However, it is often combined with features that remove “judder” from movies. This judder is a result of the movies being filmed at 24 fps. Some people love anti-judder, but others hate it and turn it off. DO NOT buy a 120 Hz TV that doesn’t allow you to turn this feature off unless you are absolutely sure you like it.
Inputs - The importance of a TVs inputs will vary based on whether or not you are plugging everything into an A/V receiver. In this day and age, any HDTV should have at least two HDMI inputs, at least one component input, at least one composite input, and maybe a digital coax or optical input. Some manufacturers include inputs on the side as well as the back.
3DTV - Pretty self-explanatory, with the exception of DLP people. All the new 3DTV LCD/Plasmas work fine out of the box. However, the checkerboard standard that was adopted years ago by the DLP manufacturers is not what made the final cut in 3D. What this means is that if you have a 3D-Ready DLP, you are most likely going to have to buy an adapter. These are often sold in a kit with glasses (I think I've seen one for the Mitsubishi sets at $400 with two glasses included).
Types of TV
Rear Projection DLP
Description
These TVs will give you huge screen size (most range from 55-72”) at much more affordable budget. For the best quality, you want to look for LED DLP TVs, which will be lighter, smaller, and consume less power while providing greater image quality. Most importantly, the LED DLPs remove the need for bulb replacement that plagued older models.
Pros
Big screens at a cheap price
Generally avoids motion blur
Uses less power than plasmas
Can provide great color
Ignoring bulb replacement, no shelf life (LCDs and Plasmas both rated for a certain amount of hours)
Cons
Generally speaking, cannot be wall mounted
May have fan noise
Bulb replacement on older non-LED models
Some notice a "rainbow" effect
Blacks generally won’t compete with mid- and high-end plasmas and LED-backlit LCDs
Major Brands
Mitsubishi is the only one still in this market
LCD
Description
The most common tech on the market day, LCDs are known for weighing less than plasma TVs and for consuming less power. Wikipedia can better describe the backing technology than I can. These TVs range in price from absurdly cheap to prohibitively expensive. In general, price differences between TVs of similar size are justified by color accuracy, how well the panel can render quick motion, thickness, and the all-important black level.
There are three main techs of LCD. The first is the "legacy" LCD, which uses a CCFL backlight. These TVs are becoming harder to find every year. The most common LCD tech out there is edge-lit LED. These TVs use LED lighting along the side of the screen (similar to many laptops). This allows the TVs to use less power, become absurdly thin, and still produce a relatively good picture. However, the obvious uniformity issues can come into play when you are lighting from the edges. Each brand typically has one super-high-end line of LED using "local-dimming". Here there are LED "zones" throughout the TV that can be turned on or off depending on what is needed at any given time. These TVs have the best picture of all LCD TVs. Be wary of deals from off-brands on local-dimming...the quality of these TVs is directly tied to how many zones are available. Additionally, the dynamic black level rating is even more useless in this case because the TV will simply turn off all of its lights for the dark part of the test.
Pros
Lighter weight and less power-hungry than Plasma
Can be viewed in brightly-lit rooms
Broader size ranges (smaller plasmas have mostly been discontinued)
Cons
Motion blur (mostly resolved, see below)
Black levels are still improving, but usually won't match plasma at an equivalent price point (and top-end plasma will still win over top-end LED)
Viewing angle – even top sets suffer when viewed at any angle other than center (much less a problem than it used to be though)
High-end price - in most cases, the best LCD is pricier than other premium sets
Major Brands
Samsung, Sony, Sharp, LG, Toshiba, Vizio
Plasma
Description
Plasma technology is based on inert gases trapped behind two layers of glass. Plasmas are renown for their spectacular image quality as well as higher power consumption and greater weights. They also struggle to shake negative public perception caused by their early burn-in issues (see farther down this post). The technology has made a strong showing for itself since the 2008 financial because of the cheaper prices of larger high-quality sets and a growing consumer awareness that its issues have been solved. The differences in price between plasmas are usually based on panel thickness and color accuracy/black levels.
Pros
Good at all viewing angles
The best possible blacks on the market
Doesn’t need the 120/240Hz coping systems for motion that LCD needs
Larger possible screens at "realistic" prices
Price – in general, plasmas will cost less than LCDs of equal size/quality
Cons
NOT Burn-in (discussed more below)
Heavy and power-hungry
Mainly belongs in a light-controlled room
Possible degredation over time and significant use (see edit directly below)
Major Brands
Panasonic, Samsung
3/1/11 Edit: One thing you may find in researching this technology is that it degrades over time. This is a valid concern when laying down a bunch of money for a TV. The short version is that tons of reading on the subject has convinced me that this is not a concern to be worried about. And usually when someone is steadfastly refusing to budge from this being a dealbreaking-issue, I find that their primary justification is the morons that infest AVSForums. But the people in there who really know what they're talking about, the people who have a longstanding proven history of testing and calibrating TVs, will not harp on this. More spoilered:
The Great Debate: LCD vs. Plasma
This battle is now mostly the result of the early handicaps of each technology. Plasmas were infamous for their burn-in problems, in which a TV would become permanently stained by an image that had been left on the screen too long, such as a network TV logo or the black bars from a widescreen movie. LCDs were known for being horrible if you weren't sitting directly in front of them, as well as having difficulty dealing with quick motion in sports, action movies, games, etc. The next few bullets are very much my opinion, but I think if you look around reputable review sources you'll see these comments borne out.
Plasma Burn-In is no longer a problem. No, I don't want to hear about your friend who like, watched twenty minutes of mean girls and totally got burn-in. No. I actually wanted to put this up early in the year, but didn't have enough reputable information to justify it. You will have to deliberately try to hurt your TV to cause any kind of burn-in. If you're super paranoid (like me), treat your plasma nice by avoiding static images during a 100-hour break-in. Or don't. If you want to hear about the abuse I've done to my own plasma, feel free to PM me.
LCD motion is also no longer a major issue, provided you're buying a 120Hz panel. Of course, many people never thought there was an issue with 60Hz, and if you're one of those people then you don't need to worry about this anyways. For most people, LCDs with 120Hz and MOTION INTERPOLATION TURNED OFF will not notice a difference between LCD and Plasma.
LCDs still suck off angle. Not as badly as they used to, and probably not a deal breaker for many, but they do.
Plasmas still suck down way more power than LCDs and weigh more.
It still takes $3000+ high-end LCDs to beat the best $1500 plasmas. This price disparity is often expressed in smaller amounts at the lower and middle-end sets as well.
What's the takeaway? There are two. Number one, don't worry about bullshit on EITHER tech. Don't be scared away from buying that plasma because you own an Xbox 360. Don't skip on that LCD because you have the NFL Ticket on DirecTV. Buy a size and quality that fits your budget. I will objectively suggest that often times in the current price market that will be a plasma.
Finding The Best Price
Amazon (and in some cases Newegg) will be your friend here. You can get massive discounts below what typical consumer stores will charge. Sometimes open-box deals are a good way to go, though I’ve noticed that Best Buy open box discounts are usually not worth it. Make sure as you browse online that you check whether a posted price includes shipping…these things get HEAVY. Additionally, make sure you know what warranty you are getting. Some of the cheaper online stores (and Ebay) aren't approved distributors for a particular brand. In these cases, a TV will NOT be covered by a manufacturer's warranty. Don't be fooled either...I've seen a bunch of these sites list "US Warranty" as being included in the purchase. This does not mean manufacturer! It means they're using a third party warranty service, and can refer to any service or the actual company USWarranty, which I've seen bad reports about.
This HDGuru article does the best job ever explaining why looking at TVs in-store is of questionable benefit when making a purchase. In addition to turning their TVs onto "torch" settings, the lighting makes a big difference. The store can still be great to see if the MOTION of the set is up to par (particularly important for LCDs). But in many ways word-of-mouth from AVSForum owner threads can be far more useful than personal experience at Best Buy.
When looking at TVs online, you should treat a TV's listed specifications with a grain of salt, even on sites like Amazon and Newegg. I've noted several times where secondary features or even contrast ratios get confused across lines (for example, a Samsung C630 and a C650 might have some errors between them). And a lot of times features won't be listed (analog inputs, etc). Always check the manufacturer site for real specifications, and ensure that the TV that arrives at your door meets those specifications.
FAQ:
Resolution-Distance Chart
Size – Measured from opposite corners, this is the biggest factor in price of a TV
Native Contrast Ratio – The best contrast a display can produce between its whitest white and darkest black at a given instant. A great way to test this is a starfield scene…how white can the stars be versus the blackness of space at the same time? Remember: a high contrast ratio is still shitty if the darkest black it can display is light grey.
Dynamic Contrast Ratio – Bullshit. I put this up here because it’s often quoted, but this is a meaningless number. It refers to how black a COMPLETELY black screen can be versus the whiteness of a COMPLETELY white screen. How often do you watch a completely black screen? Exactly.
Display Resolution – 480i used to be the only resolution offered. DVDs made 480p possible if your TV could handle it. HDTV defined the 720p, 1080i, and 1080p standards. A chart at the bottom clarifies what resolution you need, but generally speaking if you’re under 50” a 720p TV is fine. But 1080p is not usually much more expensive either.
Deep Color/x.v.Color – These features are being tossed around right now, but at this point in time virtually nothing actually implements them. So while they’re nice to have for the future, don’t make a decision based on them.
Viewing Angle – Another bullshit figure. You can “view” a TV from any angle, so LCD manufacturers list angles up to 178 degrees. But your LCD will look substantially worse viewed off angle.
120/240 Hz – This can refer to two different things. In one sense it refers to a feature newer LCDs have that uses a faster refresh rate to avoid the classic motion blur problem. However, it is often combined with features that remove “judder” from movies. This judder is a result of the movies being filmed at 24 fps. Some people love anti-judder, but others hate it and turn it off. DO NOT buy a 120 Hz TV that doesn’t allow you to turn this feature off unless you are absolutely sure you like it.
Inputs - The importance of a TVs inputs will vary based on whether or not you are plugging everything into an A/V receiver. In this day and age, any HDTV should have at least two HDMI inputs, at least one component input, at least one composite input, and maybe a digital coax or optical input. Some manufacturers include inputs on the side as well as the back.
3DTV - Pretty self-explanatory, with the exception of DLP people. All the new 3DTV LCD/Plasmas work fine out of the box. However, the checkerboard standard that was adopted years ago by the DLP manufacturers is not what made the final cut in 3D. What this means is that if you have a 3D-Ready DLP, you are most likely going to have to buy an adapter. These are often sold in a kit with glasses (I think I've seen one for the Mitsubishi sets at $400 with two glasses included).
Types of TV
Rear Projection DLP
Description
These TVs will give you huge screen size (most range from 55-72”) at much more affordable budget. For the best quality, you want to look for LED DLP TVs, which will be lighter, smaller, and consume less power while providing greater image quality. Most importantly, the LED DLPs remove the need for bulb replacement that plagued older models.
Pros
Big screens at a cheap price
Generally avoids motion blur
Uses less power than plasmas
Can provide great color
Ignoring bulb replacement, no shelf life (LCDs and Plasmas both rated for a certain amount of hours)
Cons
Generally speaking, cannot be wall mounted
May have fan noise
Bulb replacement on older non-LED models
Some notice a "rainbow" effect
Blacks generally won’t compete with mid- and high-end plasmas and LED-backlit LCDs
Major Brands
Mitsubishi is the only one still in this market
LCD
Description
The most common tech on the market day, LCDs are known for weighing less than plasma TVs and for consuming less power. Wikipedia can better describe the backing technology than I can. These TVs range in price from absurdly cheap to prohibitively expensive. In general, price differences between TVs of similar size are justified by color accuracy, how well the panel can render quick motion, thickness, and the all-important black level.
There are three main techs of LCD. The first is the "legacy" LCD, which uses a CCFL backlight. These TVs are becoming harder to find every year. The most common LCD tech out there is edge-lit LED. These TVs use LED lighting along the side of the screen (similar to many laptops). This allows the TVs to use less power, become absurdly thin, and still produce a relatively good picture. However, the obvious uniformity issues can come into play when you are lighting from the edges. Each brand typically has one super-high-end line of LED using "local-dimming". Here there are LED "zones" throughout the TV that can be turned on or off depending on what is needed at any given time. These TVs have the best picture of all LCD TVs. Be wary of deals from off-brands on local-dimming...the quality of these TVs is directly tied to how many zones are available. Additionally, the dynamic black level rating is even more useless in this case because the TV will simply turn off all of its lights for the dark part of the test.
Pros
Lighter weight and less power-hungry than Plasma
Can be viewed in brightly-lit rooms
Broader size ranges (smaller plasmas have mostly been discontinued)
Cons
Motion blur (mostly resolved, see below)
Black levels are still improving, but usually won't match plasma at an equivalent price point (and top-end plasma will still win over top-end LED)
Viewing angle – even top sets suffer when viewed at any angle other than center (much less a problem than it used to be though)
High-end price - in most cases, the best LCD is pricier than other premium sets
Major Brands
Samsung, Sony, Sharp, LG, Toshiba, Vizio
Plasma
Description
Plasma technology is based on inert gases trapped behind two layers of glass. Plasmas are renown for their spectacular image quality as well as higher power consumption and greater weights. They also struggle to shake negative public perception caused by their early burn-in issues (see farther down this post). The technology has made a strong showing for itself since the 2008 financial because of the cheaper prices of larger high-quality sets and a growing consumer awareness that its issues have been solved. The differences in price between plasmas are usually based on panel thickness and color accuracy/black levels.
Pros
Good at all viewing angles
The best possible blacks on the market
Doesn’t need the 120/240Hz coping systems for motion that LCD needs
Larger possible screens at "realistic" prices
Price – in general, plasmas will cost less than LCDs of equal size/quality
Cons
NOT Burn-in (discussed more below)
Heavy and power-hungry
Mainly belongs in a light-controlled room
Possible degredation over time and significant use (see edit directly below)
Major Brands
Panasonic, Samsung
3/1/11 Edit: One thing you may find in researching this technology is that it degrades over time. This is a valid concern when laying down a bunch of money for a TV. The short version is that tons of reading on the subject has convinced me that this is not a concern to be worried about. And usually when someone is steadfastly refusing to budge from this being a dealbreaking-issue, I find that their primary justification is the morons that infest AVSForums. But the people in there who really know what they're talking about, the people who have a longstanding proven history of testing and calibrating TVs, will not harp on this. More spoilered:
This all basically started in late 2009. Over time plasma TVs are configured to make slight adjustments to their voltages. I'm not going to pretend to be an electrical engineer who knows the detailed background of this, but the layman's version is that this will result in the black level of the TV rising over time. This is generally imperceptible and since then reviewers such as CNet have been punishing plasma TVs for longer time periods and updating their reviews with the results (usually this does not change their score because as I said, it isn't noticeable).
Unfortunately Panasonic fucked this up pretty badly in 2009. Most of their models that year made too drastic a change in the voltage somewhere between 1000-1500 hours of use. This resulted in the lowest black level doubling, and that definitely was noticeable. In typical corporate fashion, the farthest Panasonic went was a press statement that essentially read "Our TVs are awesome. But the black level rises. We didn't screw up. But next year's TVs won't do this." In any event they were true to their word, the 2010 plasma models did not rise noticeable amounts over anything remotely resembling typical use. But once you screw up like this long memories take root.
Unfortunately Panasonic fucked this up pretty badly in 2009. Most of their models that year made too drastic a change in the voltage somewhere between 1000-1500 hours of use. This resulted in the lowest black level doubling, and that definitely was noticeable. In typical corporate fashion, the farthest Panasonic went was a press statement that essentially read "Our TVs are awesome. But the black level rises. We didn't screw up. But next year's TVs won't do this." In any event they were true to their word, the 2010 plasma models did not rise noticeable amounts over anything remotely resembling typical use. But once you screw up like this long memories take root.
The Great Debate: LCD vs. Plasma
This battle is now mostly the result of the early handicaps of each technology. Plasmas were infamous for their burn-in problems, in which a TV would become permanently stained by an image that had been left on the screen too long, such as a network TV logo or the black bars from a widescreen movie. LCDs were known for being horrible if you weren't sitting directly in front of them, as well as having difficulty dealing with quick motion in sports, action movies, games, etc. The next few bullets are very much my opinion, but I think if you look around reputable review sources you'll see these comments borne out.
Plasma Burn-In is no longer a problem. No, I don't want to hear about your friend who like, watched twenty minutes of mean girls and totally got burn-in. No. I actually wanted to put this up early in the year, but didn't have enough reputable information to justify it. You will have to deliberately try to hurt your TV to cause any kind of burn-in. If you're super paranoid (like me), treat your plasma nice by avoiding static images during a 100-hour break-in. Or don't. If you want to hear about the abuse I've done to my own plasma, feel free to PM me.
LCD motion is also no longer a major issue, provided you're buying a 120Hz panel. Of course, many people never thought there was an issue with 60Hz, and if you're one of those people then you don't need to worry about this anyways. For most people, LCDs with 120Hz and MOTION INTERPOLATION TURNED OFF will not notice a difference between LCD and Plasma.
LCDs still suck off angle. Not as badly as they used to, and probably not a deal breaker for many, but they do.
Plasmas still suck down way more power than LCDs and weigh more.
It still takes $3000+ high-end LCDs to beat the best $1500 plasmas. This price disparity is often expressed in smaller amounts at the lower and middle-end sets as well.
What's the takeaway? There are two. Number one, don't worry about bullshit on EITHER tech. Don't be scared away from buying that plasma because you own an Xbox 360. Don't skip on that LCD because you have the NFL Ticket on DirecTV. Buy a size and quality that fits your budget. I will objectively suggest that often times in the current price market that will be a plasma.
Finding The Best Price
Amazon (and in some cases Newegg) will be your friend here. You can get massive discounts below what typical consumer stores will charge. Sometimes open-box deals are a good way to go, though I’ve noticed that Best Buy open box discounts are usually not worth it. Make sure as you browse online that you check whether a posted price includes shipping…these things get HEAVY. Additionally, make sure you know what warranty you are getting. Some of the cheaper online stores (and Ebay) aren't approved distributors for a particular brand. In these cases, a TV will NOT be covered by a manufacturer's warranty. Don't be fooled either...I've seen a bunch of these sites list "US Warranty" as being included in the purchase. This does not mean manufacturer! It means they're using a third party warranty service, and can refer to any service or the actual company USWarranty, which I've seen bad reports about.
This HDGuru article does the best job ever explaining why looking at TVs in-store is of questionable benefit when making a purchase. In addition to turning their TVs onto "torch" settings, the lighting makes a big difference. The store can still be great to see if the MOTION of the set is up to par (particularly important for LCDs). But in many ways word-of-mouth from AVSForum owner threads can be far more useful than personal experience at Best Buy.
When looking at TVs online, you should treat a TV's listed specifications with a grain of salt, even on sites like Amazon and Newegg. I've noted several times where secondary features or even contrast ratios get confused across lines (for example, a Samsung C630 and a C650 might have some errors between them). And a lot of times features won't be listed (analog inputs, etc). Always check the manufacturer site for real specifications, and ensure that the TV that arrives at your door meets those specifications.
FAQ:
Why are there so many models for the same brand that have similar numbers and identical specs?
A lot of these models exist solely for the purpose of thwarting price matching. They'll be minutely different (like one extra random input port or some BS feature). If store A is carrying the mainline model (say a Samsung 650) while store B is carrying one of the offshoots (like a 630 or something), neither store is obligated to price match the other because the models are different. While this isn't a hard-fast rule, generally if the manufacturer is reporting identical picture specs (contrast ratio, response time, etc), while the numbers are meaningless their equality tells you that it's the same panel with just a couple small extras added/removed.
Is there any reason not to buy online?
No significant reason. Online purchasing will often give you much lower prices and free shipping is common in many places. The downside is that if your TV shows up dead or something you have to send it back. Amazon is really good with this, but if there are problems it still won't be as convenient as the Best Buy down the street. That being said it is almost always worth it to buy online from an authorized dealer.
But what is an authorized dealer?
Authorized dealers have a relationship with the actual manufacturer to sell the device. This doesn't mean it's illegal for someone else to sell that device; but it means certain things don't apply. For example, virtually no online site selling a TV will offer a manufacturer warranty if they aren't an authorized dealer. A good back-of-the-hand test is to find the Amazon price for a TV and compare it against the site you're looking at. If it is SIGNIFICANTLY less, start hunting around and make sure it comes with the manufacturer warranty that it should.
Should I buy an extended warranty for my TV?
There is more misinformation and bad anecdotal evidence about this subject than almost any other tech-purchasing discussion and this goes far beyond TVs. As far as TVs go, no you should not buy an extended warranty. Your TV should (see above) come with at least a year warranty that will cover any defect issues. Most TVs will fail within that time period or not at all.
Now before anyone dogpiles on that, yes there are exceptions. My friend's old Samsung DLP managed to die 3 months before his extended warranty expired. Not only did he get a new TV, but since that TV was discontinued he got a retarded amount of store credit given what that TV was worth at the time which he then applied to snatch up one of the last Kuro elites.
I would ignore stories like those of my friend there and skip the warranty. There is a reason employees at these stores (apple with AppleCare, best buy with in house plans, etc) are pushed so hard to sell these that they are often tied to performance reviews. And it's not because these stores care so desperately about your TV.
I've heard LCDs no longer have off-axis problems.
Wrong. The picture decays, period. Does it bother everyone? No. But it is undeniably there. And I'm talking from off-center viewing to the left or right. From off-center vertical viewing angles the problem is much worse.
A lot of these models exist solely for the purpose of thwarting price matching. They'll be minutely different (like one extra random input port or some BS feature). If store A is carrying the mainline model (say a Samsung 650) while store B is carrying one of the offshoots (like a 630 or something), neither store is obligated to price match the other because the models are different. While this isn't a hard-fast rule, generally if the manufacturer is reporting identical picture specs (contrast ratio, response time, etc), while the numbers are meaningless their equality tells you that it's the same panel with just a couple small extras added/removed.
Is there any reason not to buy online?
No significant reason. Online purchasing will often give you much lower prices and free shipping is common in many places. The downside is that if your TV shows up dead or something you have to send it back. Amazon is really good with this, but if there are problems it still won't be as convenient as the Best Buy down the street. That being said it is almost always worth it to buy online from an authorized dealer.
But what is an authorized dealer?
Authorized dealers have a relationship with the actual manufacturer to sell the device. This doesn't mean it's illegal for someone else to sell that device; but it means certain things don't apply. For example, virtually no online site selling a TV will offer a manufacturer warranty if they aren't an authorized dealer. A good back-of-the-hand test is to find the Amazon price for a TV and compare it against the site you're looking at. If it is SIGNIFICANTLY less, start hunting around and make sure it comes with the manufacturer warranty that it should.
Should I buy an extended warranty for my TV?
There is more misinformation and bad anecdotal evidence about this subject than almost any other tech-purchasing discussion and this goes far beyond TVs. As far as TVs go, no you should not buy an extended warranty. Your TV should (see above) come with at least a year warranty that will cover any defect issues. Most TVs will fail within that time period or not at all.
Now before anyone dogpiles on that, yes there are exceptions. My friend's old Samsung DLP managed to die 3 months before his extended warranty expired. Not only did he get a new TV, but since that TV was discontinued he got a retarded amount of store credit given what that TV was worth at the time which he then applied to snatch up one of the last Kuro elites.
I would ignore stories like those of my friend there and skip the warranty. There is a reason employees at these stores (apple with AppleCare, best buy with in house plans, etc) are pushed so hard to sell these that they are often tied to performance reviews. And it's not because these stores care so desperately about your TV.
I've heard LCDs no longer have off-axis problems.
Wrong. The picture decays, period. Does it bother everyone? No. But it is undeniably there. And I'm talking from off-center viewing to the left or right. From off-center vertical viewing angles the problem is much worse.
Resolution-Distance Chart
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aka Cables and wires, oh my!
www.Monoprice.com
Amazon has some nicely priced wires sometimes, but avoid those penny wires like the plague. The short answer is that it isn't expensive to make a good cable, but shitty cables do exist. Monoprice however, does not carry shitty cables.
You Want That Boom Boom Boom
aka Speakers and receivers, oh my!
So now you want your TV to sound better too? Well that's asking a bit much, don't you think? Fine. Whatever, lets rock. I want to start this by saying that audio gear is radically different and shouldn't be what this thread is about, but there are some basic tennants we can follow to mitigate confusion. Audio nuts are insane and hear things that most people don't know exist, let alone even care about. The sky is also the limit for these nutters, I've got a buddy who could spend ten grand on speakers if given the option (and still find fault).
Surround Sound
3.1, 5.1, and 7.1 systems are your bread and butter with 5.1 being the most common (the .1 is for the subwoofer). Not only are so few things even produced for 7.1, but you need a big ass room to make it worth while. For most people 7.1 is eye candy, not even ear candy. Its a great functionless way to show off. 5.1 is the standard set up most people can take advantage of with regards to room size and that most movies are edited for. Its the gold standard. On a limited budget, I'm a fan of the 3.1 system. The 3 is for the center, front left, and front right channels. With good speakers, a 3.1 system can blow away your average 5.1 system and produce a similar surround effect. And with how little action happens behind the camera in a movie (which would have sound originating from behind the viewer), how important are those sounds when they actually happen? Answer: Not very.
Lets say you want to just get surround sound up and running without much though. I get that, thats cool, you're looking for a Home Theatre in a Box (HTiB). Onkyo is the gold standard for well made equipment in a variety of prices. I am not an expert in this and will not speculate on the quality of other "affordable" brands, but the quality can range dramatically. Onkyo is pretty damned consistent.
Want to buy the speakers separately? Keep in mind that good speakers can last generations. Its the one piece that won't be out teched if its a good piece to begin with. Keep an eye on Newegg's e-blast deals. They regularly put higher level consumer speakers on sale. You're going to be looking for Polks and Klipschs based on what usually goes on sale. Some of their stuff is still made in the USA and some in China, the USA stuff has better build quality. Keep in mind that the center channel/speaker is your most important one for TV and movies. That is where almost all of the dialogue is coming from for instance. If you're upgrading speakers, do the center first. Then the front left and right, ideally the same exact speakers. Finally the rears (or finally the center rears if you're 7.1ing it up preceded by the rears) if you want to keep going, again making them the same exact speaker to help balance things out. Here is how to set things up
5.1
7.1
Receivers
Once you get past the really "affordable" options with no real options, there seems to be a pretty standard quality for receivers. Onkyo is again a favorite, but I can't think of a major manufacturer that I would avoid. This is going to be a game of "find the features you want". There are a lot of features, here are the ones you want to look for.
Inputs available (consider anything you may buy in the future)
Outputs
HDMI classification (can it handle 3D? Do you care?
Upscaling/Upconversion (taking a signal and "upgrading" it to a higher video quality so that it can pass through a different cable. Pay attention to the wording, some receivers can convert an analog signal to a digital one and pass it through HDMI, others can only convert it for a component cable)
HDMI Passthrough (will take multiple HDMI feeds and pass them through a single cable to your TV, will not pass non-HDMI signals through a single HDMI cable)
Zone 2 (separately controlled speakers that you'd put somewhere else, such as listening to TV inside by having music going outside all through the same system)
Universal Control
It sounds insane, but once you have three or more components, buy a fucking Harmony remote. They are life changing.
save mitsubishi
NewEgg has some incredible reviews for a Hannspree set. I've never heard of them, but Wiki says that they aquired their TFT LCD manufacturing technology from Hitachi and Toshiba (which make a decent but not top tier set). They have a lot of DOA reviews, but $500 for a 42" 1080 120hz? Not too shabby.
I'll throw my 2 cents in here.
I've owned 3 hannspree sets (one was a hanns-g, their corporate branding), two of which failed entirely within the first two years, one of which had major issues for the year preceeding its demise. One was a 28in lcd, one a 20in and one a 19in (hanns-g). All widescreen. The 28in and 19in failed entirely. I tried to get support on the first one that failed but it was a futile gesture. When I could even get through to support they pretty much said "sorry out of warranty, too bad so sad" and didn't really offer any sort of other option. I guess when you sell sets for throwaway prices then you'll get throwaway support.
Their image quality was good but nothing to get excited about, but nothing to complain about either. There was less backlight bleed in my old hannspree 28in than there is in my current asus 28in, but the non-black image on my asus is much cleaner and vibrant than the hannspree was. The 20in hannspree that still works has a lot of backlight bleed though on blacks but the image is decent. It's just not great watching movies or playing games with a lot of blacks because they appear blue.
I bought them all because their price, compared to equal spec/size monitors of other brands was vastly different. They had decent reviews and I figured that I could deal with an ok to decent monitor if I was saving 30-50% off the price I'd pay for a viewsonic or something similar. This was several years ago, mind you, prices have come down so much on small size monitors that the price discrepancy is far less.
When the monitors worked, I didn't really have any worthwhile complaints. But the speed at which they failed has put a bad taste in my mouth and I'll likely never by the brand again, particularly when you can get a good set of any brand these days at a reasonable price. Now, I can't comment on the larger tv-size sets, maybe they have a different manufacturing process for the larger sets, but for the smaller PC sized ones, I'd recommend people steered clear. It's entirely possible others have had good luck with their products from this company but I'm 2/3 in failed hardware in the first two years, anecdotal, sure, but there it is.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I ordered it from Panasonic on the 6th.
so close
Now I just need to figure out how to connect my computer to the TV. A 25' HDMI cable should suffice for video, but I don't quite know how to get audio there.
I came in here to post today's Sellout Woot
http://deals.woot.com/sellout
A 32" 720P LCD Vizio for
Unfortunately, I don't think my video card does that. I do have optical out and the normal connections, but I've read conflicting information whether they're good for 20+ feet. Guess I'll just have to experiment when it gets here.
aaaargh
I'm sure all the stats in that article are true. However, I think there's a lot to be said on the lack of interesting technical growth (interesting to the general consumer, anyways). Last year's mid range really hit a point that satisfies the majority of people. 3D has not attracted a large amount of interest and is on many cheaper sets too. These reasons are why I think anyone in the tv market is better off snatching a 2010 deal rather than waiting for all the 2011 models to hit the market.
PSN: TheScrublet
Taking Variable and Skoal Cat's praise of the DLPs to heart, I checked out the WD-65638 on Amazon. It doesn't say anything about being an LED DLP, so it may not be what you meant. But the price looks good, and even if I have to replace three bulbs in five years, as one commenter did, I'd still come out well ahead of the prices I'm seeing on similarly sized plasmas and LEDs. Seriously, a 10" smaller TV seems to cost 50% more. I'm confused.
I'll be honest, I would buy a DLP in a fucking heart beat if I had the right room setup and the money to spend.
So if I did go the DLP route, I'd want to buy a TV and a couple spare bulbs (then keep an eye out for clearances to pick up a couple more cheap). Then I'd want to test the spare bulbs to make sure I could send back any DOAs under warranty.
This is a silly plan, but it's still way cheaper than getting a 55" LCD or plasma. Do those technologies just not scale well?
That being said, while the tech has held up remarkably well, it still lost the king-of-image crown long ago. At "normal" sizes I would probably recommend either plasma or LCD over DLP. Particularly with the extremely low price floors plasma reached even at the mid-end without sacrificing too much in image quality.
That LaserVue tech is as dead as anything can ever be. After three years I'm not aware of any price drop. I'd wager OLEDs will be out before that thing ever becomes anything more than a novelty that, if I had to guess, would fail to stand up against current-gen top-end TVs. If I recall it about tied with the Kuros back in the day, slightly losing in blacks but slightly winning in color.
PSN: TheScrublet
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
What would be the argument against grabbing and rehabilitating an LED backlit model that's otherwise been a wall lamp for a few months if the price is right?
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
LEDs are good for so many hours, that I wouldn't even worry about a shorter life span. Just take the time to calibrate your set, and you should be good to go.
The only catch I have is that it needs 1 composite input so I can hook up older video game consoles if I need to.
Woot is having a sweet deal right now.
I've currently got a pair of bookshelf speakers similar to these from Polk. I'm looking for a center to compliment them.
I was thinking something like this. Thoughts?
Unfortunately, I really don't have room for a 42" TV in my bedroom...
luckily our samsung is still kicking, though I had to replace a color lamp or something a couple of years back. the red stopped working
For what it's worth: my family bought a 42" Sony DLP in May of 2006. We have not replaced a bulb or had a single problem with it yet.
My questions are: how accurate is that 'resolution/viewing distance' chart? Is there really that little of a noticeable difference on a 32" screen once you get >6' away? Also, what brands should I be paying the most attention to for picture quality and reliability?
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
First television I ever watched was 16 inches. Atari 2600 looked fine on that, why get one bigger?
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
Growing up kicks ass sometimes.
http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/e840956e-6ba6-4e77-b816-6b7a7063e74f/vizio-37-1080p-lcd-hdtv#1
Solid deal for anyone looking for a cheaper TV in that size.
+ S/H or Sales tax, depending on where you live.
It comes out to $730 for me in Kansas.
Edit: And reading more of the thread at SlickDeals.net, someone says you can get Walmart to pricematch it, with free site2store shipping, so even if you don't live near a Frys, so can get away without shipping charges.