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A Song of Ice and Fire - Here Be Spoilers. Book People! Discuss the TV Show Here!

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Posts

  • AsiinaAsiina regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Re: Sansa
    I completely turned around on Sansa. It took a lot longer than turning around on Jaime, but I really like the character Sansa has become.

    Also I don't seem to hate Littlefinger as much as a lot of other people do. If she doesn't betray him, I don't think I'd be too upset with that. I've always liked Littlefinger.

    Asiina on
  • dojangodojango regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Asiina wrote: »
    Re: Sansa
    I completely turned around on Sansa. It took a lot longer than turning around on Jaime, but I really like the character Sansa has become.

    Also I don't seem to hate Littlefinger as much as a lot of other people do. If she doesn't betray him, I don't think I'd be too upset with that. I've always liked Littlefinger.

    Out of all the amoral sociopaths in the series, he's definitely my favorite.

    dojango on
  • schussschuss regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    dojango wrote: »
    Asiina wrote: »
    Re: Sansa
    I completely turned around on Sansa. It took a lot longer than turning around on Jaime, but I really like the character Sansa has become.

    Also I don't seem to hate Littlefinger as much as a lot of other people do. If she doesn't betray him, I don't think I'd be too upset with that. I've always liked Littlefinger.

    Out of all the amoral sociopaths in the series, he's definitely my favorite.

    Don't get me wrong, he's entertaining. However -
    He clearly has creepy intentions for Sansa and wants to be King, which he would be terrible at. If she's just his dutiful mole, she'll still be the same dumb girl following others directions. She has yet to really show any backbone to resisting others.

    schuss on
  • AsiinaAsiina regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Understanding how the world works is I think enough growth for Sansa to make me happy with her character.
    It was so frustrating reading about her and you'd think that maybe, finally, THIS TIME she'd finally understand the cruel nature of the world she's in and how you have to be cunning to survive. But then she'd say something and just completely revert back to the little girl who wants a handsome prince to save her.

    Asiina on
  • RPGeekRPGeek regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think I'm in a different boat from most everyone here...I like most all the POV characters (even Catelyn, so yeah, I'm probably insane) but neo-Sansa...(AFFC)
    The last AFFC Sansa chapter, the one I referenced on page 8, she talks with the Vale's maester of giving sweetmilk to Robert Arryn. Since through Arya we learn that it's a lethal poison if too much is used (think space honey), I guess I have knowledge that she doesn't, but maester Colemon is clearly worried, and she ought to have taken the hint, damn it.

    I just don't think she'll ever be smart enough to actually manipulate anyone behind the shadows.

    RPGeek on
  • GaryOGaryO regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    RPGeek wrote: »
    I think I'm in a different boat from most everyone here...I like most all the POV characters (even Catelyn, so yeah, I'm probably insane) but neo-Sansa...(AFFC)
    The last AFFC Sansa chapter, the one I referenced on page 8, she talks with the Vale's maester of giving sweetmilk to Robert Arryn. Since through Arya we learn that it's a lethal poison if too much is used (think space honey), I guess I have knowledge that she doesn't, but maester Colemon is clearly worried, and she ought to have taken the hint, damn it.

    I just don't think she'll ever be smart enough to actually manipulate anyone behind the shadows.

    As someone who only read the books for the first time a month ago I have the opinion that Sansa couldn't outwit a door.

    GaryO on
  • WappaduWappadu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    masc.box wrote: »

    She has grown on me throughout the series, I like her.

    Oh and another thing...

    Serious Book 3 Spoiler
    Rereading book 3, its suprising how much effort Martin puts in to showing that there is a future storyline for Robb & Catelyn - He goes into great detail on Robb's plan to retake Moat Cailin after Edmure's wedding. Sending Catelyn to Seaguard, (i think it was Seaguard) and i feel its hinted at a little that she finds this Lord in Seaguard attractive..

    Even Arya looks like she is going to return and the most awesome character in the books (Sandor) looks like he might join the North if Robb lets him.

    Then Red Wedding Shit Storm.

    Oh George how I loathe (love) you.

    I have faith that HBO can pull it off, assuming we get that far. Intrigue is something they are portraying quite well, but the jury is still out on depicting battles.
    He's done that sort of false build-up so often, but I keep falling for it. The Dothraki invasion, then Renly/Stannis outnumbering everyone so badly, then Robb as the invincible wunderkind general. If the TV crowd can remain unspoiled for 2 entire years, I think HBO can make the Red Wedding equally shocking as the books were by keeping the viewer's attention on everything you mentioned.

    What are the Ironmen doing, and how are we countering it? Where is Tywin and who fucked up my trap? What's the status of the missing Stark kids, and is Jaime keeping his word? If we head back north, what will that mean for the other "kings?" We lost the Karstarks because of mom's increasingly crazy behavior, so can we pick up some Freys along the way during this wedding? Why do these musicians suck? Why is there a foot of steel coming out of my chest?

    I'd like to hear some predictions for the major plot twist(s?) of ADwD. Just once I'd like to say "Called it!" when reading these books.

    Wappadu on
  • KhaczorKhaczor regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think it would hilarious for Sam the Slayer to kill the
    faceless man
    he just met for whatever reasons in the future.... that would REALLY make him legend at this point. Not going to happen in ADwD though.

    Khaczor on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    My guesses
    Syrio Forel will reveal himself and teach Arya to be a kickass blind swordswoman.

    Rickon will get captured by Roose Bolton.

    Jon will turn into a massive dick.

    Bran will reveal himself to Jon.

    Sam will somehow bumble into the middle of a huge complicated dornish plot and get killed.

    R+L=J will be confirmed.

    hailthefish on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    My guesses
    Syrio Forel will reveal himself and teach Arya to be a kickass blind swordswoman.

    Rickon will get captured by Roose Bolton.

    Jon will turn into a massive dick.

    Bran will reveal himself to Jon.

    Sam will somehow bumble into the middle of a huge complicated dornish plot and get killed.

    R+L=J will be confirmed.

    My thoughts on that.
    Syrio Forrel dead forever, Arya isn't permanently blind.
    Something horrible will likely happen to Rickon.
    Jon will stay Jon, it is the only constant!
    Yeah that sounds Sam like, can't see him or anything just staying at peace, or actually more likely some weird conspricy plot will be oncovered by him and his story will turn into Harry Potter.

    I think R+L will be shown false.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • VonVon Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Asiina wrote: »
    Understanding how the world works is I think enough growth for Sansa to make me happy with her character.
    It was so frustrating reading about her and you'd think that maybe, finally, THIS TIME she'd finally understand the cruel nature of the world she's in and how you have to be cunning to survive. But then she'd say something and just completely revert back to the little girl who wants a handsome prince to save her.

    That's why I actually liked it when she
    married Tyrion. It seemed shitty, but he's clever and has more of a heart than most of the Lannisters, and I think Sansa could have learned a thing or two from him if she weren't such a shallow little twat. Could've made a badass power couple.

    But still, I feel sorry for her.
    When she ratted out her father to Cersei, she had no idea what she was doing. Her dad was about to take away everything she ever wanted--a beautiful prince, court, singers and dresses and fine ladies--and the queen had been nothing but courteous to her. She went to the queen thinking Cersei would reason with Ned or something, never imagining she was ending her family. I just find it strange that for the rest of the series, she never really considers that she started the dominoes falling.

    Von on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It's really startling how some people in the TV thread have such profoundly mistaken ideas about Sansa and Joffrey.

    Hachface on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    Hachface wrote: »
    It's really startling how some people in the TV thread have such profoundly mistaken ideas about Sansa and Joffrey.

    Well the show is different, and there is no right answer or opinion on who they are.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • HyphyKezzyHyphyKezzy The Best On MarsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question: How many people's inner visions of characters have been replaced by the HBO series versions? Strangely, mine haven't. I still like the different artwork versions of characters more so in a lot of cases as much as I'm enjoying the series.

    It's been slowly transitioning for me while I reread the books waiting for ADwD and watch the show. Dinklage happened pretty much after the first episode, and as things progress I can feel my mental image shifting with more and more of the characters. I think whether or not my image shifts to the tv actors seems to be based partially on the amount of screen time they're getting and also which POV's I've been reading in the books at the time. If I'm reading through a chapter shortly after that character's been featured in the show prominently it seems like that's when they switch for me.

    HyphyKezzy on
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  • KetherialKetherial regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question: How many people's inner visions of characters have been replaced by the HBO series versions? Strangely, mine haven't. I still like the different artwork versions of characters more so in a lot of cases as much as I'm enjoying the series.

    mine haven't really either. i bet it depends on how many times or how deeply you read the books before you watched the series.

    although i think the series casting is incredible, it's still not as perfect as the imaginary people that i cast in my head.

    edit: except for joffrey. the show's joffrey is even better than the one i had in my head.

    Ketherial on
  • AsiinaAsiina regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Von wrote: »
    Asiina wrote: »
    Understanding how the world works is I think enough growth for Sansa to make me happy with her character.
    It was so frustrating reading about her and you'd think that maybe, finally, THIS TIME she'd finally understand the cruel nature of the world she's in and how you have to be cunning to survive. But then she'd say something and just completely revert back to the little girl who wants a handsome prince to save her.

    That's why I actually liked it when she
    married Tyrion. It seemed shitty, but he's clever and has more of a heart than most of the Lannisters, and I think Sansa could have learned a thing or two from him if she weren't such a shallow little twat. Could've made a badass power couple.

    But still, I feel sorry for her.
    When she ratted out her father to Cersei, she had no idea what she was doing. Her dad was about to take away everything she ever wanted--a beautiful prince, court, singers and dresses and fine ladies--and the queen had been nothing but courteous to her. She went to the queen thinking Cersei would reason with Ned or something, never imagining she was ending her family. I just find it strange that for the rest of the series, she never really considers that she started the dominoes falling.

    Well let's put blame where blame is due.

    Fuck you Cat.

    Asiina on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Peter Dinklage has also become my mental Tyrion, and the same goes for the actors who play Catelyn, Robb, Arya, and Jon Snow. Oddly enough, Sean Bean and the actor who plays Tywin haven't taken over, even though I think both actors are awesome at their jobs.

    Hachface on
  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah I don't think I can go into the TV thread anymore with all the Lannister hate. Even as a 16 year old reading the first book I didn't dislike Jaime that much.

    And honestly by book 3 the only starks I hadn't given up hope on were dull as hell. Robb, Ned, and Jon are the only characters who have 'traditional' fantasy plotlines, and while I love Jon being told to his face that he isn't the oppressed little prince that he thinks he is, I am really glad now that Robb doesn't get POV chapters because it would be so damn boring.

    Ethan Smith on
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  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Also, Jaime's actor hasn't replaced Jaime in my head because Jaime's actor is already identical to the Jaime in my head.

    Hachface on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I always pictured Arya as Ed from cowboy bebop for some reason, but the actress they got has taken that spot.

    I try to picture Sansa and all I can conjure up is a feeling of hatred and no actual image, so I'll work on that

    override367 on
  • Reverend_ChaosReverend_Chaos Suit Up! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I am linking this for the video - for all those of you who wanted Tyrion and Bronn In a spin off I give you....

    One and a Half Man

    Reverend_Chaos on
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  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I started watching the show before reading the books, so all the book 1 characters are pretty much their show images. The show Tywin isn't quite what I expected, I was picturing someone more like Peter Cushing.

    hailthefish on
  • the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I am linking this for the video - for all those of you who wanted Tyrion and Bronn In a spin off I give you....

    One and a Half Man

    Well that was just so great.

    the Togfather on
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  • EnwolfEnwolf Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I am linking this for the video - for all those of you who wanted Tyrion and Bronn In a spin off I give you....

    One and a Half Man

    Well that was just so great.

    And how! That was almost to clever.

    Enwolf on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hachface wrote: »
    Peter Dinklage has also become my mental Tyrion, and the same goes for the actors who play Catelyn, Robb, Arya, and Jon Snow. Oddly enough, Sean Bean and the actor who plays Tywin haven't taken over, even though I think both actors are awesome at their jobs.

    They didn't get Tywin's sideburns (chops!) right at all.

    :(

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • RotamRotam regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I certainly agree with Sansa becoming a more interesting character.
    At some point she's going to be massive player in the game. She's learning from the master and will shake off the naive little girl thing fairly soon. I don't think her character is stupid, just a little sheltered from the harsh realities of the world. Once the romantic visions end (and they have started to), she'll step up in the way that the other Stark children have. I'm thinking the Stark Offspring will have their vengeance in the end, although I'm wondering how Rickon will set himself apart. He has to be mentioned in ADwD.

    Rotam on
  • V1mV1m regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I am linking this for the video - for all those of you who wanted Tyrion and Bronn In a spin off I give you....

    One and a Half Man

    I would unironically watch that if it were a spinoff series.

    EDIT: Just the first couple of seasons, ofc. After that it'd be shark-jumping all the way.

    V1m on
  • Hank_ScorpioHank_Scorpio Registered User
    edited June 2011
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.

    Hank_Scorpio on
  • V1mV1m regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    Welcome to medieval times where this shit happens all the time (unless you have a 5th level priest who can cast "Cure Disease" in your party)

    V1m on
  • Hank_ScorpioHank_Scorpio Registered User
    edited June 2011
    V1m wrote: »
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    Welcome to medieval times where this shit happens all the time (unless you have a 5th level priest who can cast "Cure Disease" in your party)
    Yeah but didn't the witch fuck with the wound on purpose? If she wouldn't have touched it it would have probably been fine.

    Hank_Scorpio on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    To me it's all about comparing Ned's death and Drogo's. Both were ultimately caused by compassion, so I think we're meant to ask to what extent you can afford that as a ruler. As is Dany, as she gets to survive her mistake.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    V1m wrote: »
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    Welcome to medieval times where this shit happens all the time (unless you have a 5th level priest who can cast "Cure Disease" in your party)
    Yeah but didn't the witch fuck with the wound on purpose? If she wouldn't have touched it it would have probably been fine.
    No. My read was that she gave a good-faith attempt to heal him. Him tearing the patch off, and replacing it with grass and twigs was not the best idea.

    Tamin on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Tamin wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    Welcome to medieval times where this shit happens all the time (unless you have a 5th level priest who can cast "Cure Disease" in your party)
    Yeah but didn't the witch fuck with the wound on purpose? If she wouldn't have touched it it would have probably been fine.
    No. My read was that she gave a good-faith attempt to heal him. Him tearing the patch off, and replacing it with grass and twigs was not the best idea.
    She also told him to lay off the alcohol which is actually good advice while you're healing. He ignored her but I'm in the "She tried but Drogo fucked it up." camp.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    Tamin wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    book 1 ending spoiler
    Drogo dying is going to piss off a lot of people on Sunday, but the dragons hatching almost cancels it out for being completely awesome.

    The thing that's kind of annoying is that the entire reason for Drogo's death is a little scratch on him that Dany for some reason insisted he get cleaned by a woman who just had her village destroyed. Of course she was going to kill him. He has killed hundreds of people and been wounded constantly, he knew he didn't need it treated. Yet she and her naive stupidity ruined it all. For all her talk about being the boss, you'd think she would have realized how Drogo does things. But maybe it was worth it since at the end of Book 1 she's now arguably the most powerful person alive in Westeros. I'm just starting Book 2.
    Welcome to medieval times where this shit happens all the time (unless you have a 5th level priest who can cast "Cure Disease" in your party)
    Yeah but didn't the witch fuck with the wound on purpose? If she wouldn't have touched it it would have probably been fine.
    No. My read was that she gave a good-faith attempt to heal him. Him tearing the patch off, and replacing it with grass and twigs was not the best idea.
    She also told him to lay off the alcohol which is actually good advice while you're healing. He ignored her but I'm in the "She tried but Drogo fucked it up." camp.
    Definitely the feeling I got reading the books but the show is depicting it differently I think.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.

    PolloDiablo on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.
    Possibly, I have to look it up.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.
    She purposely killed him later I believe, after Daeny asked her to use her blood magic to heal him.

    The original poultice, I believe, was a real one meant to help healing.

    shryke on
  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.
    She purposely killed him later I believe, after Daeny asked her to use her blood magic to heal him.

    The original poultice, I believe, was a real one meant to help healing.
    hmm, in the show though, isn't it really a minor scratch? It seemed more like in this version she really did fuck with it, though I don't remember the exact nature of the wound in the book

    Alucard6986 on
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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.
    She purposely killed him later I believe, after Daeny asked her to use her blood magic to heal him.

    The original poultice, I believe, was a real one meant to help healing.
    She purposely turned him into a mindless zombie at the price of his unborn son's life. That isn't exactly killing him. I would probably rate it as worse.

    I only suspect she knew that somebody would have to die (Only Death can pay for Life) and just had a good guess on who/what it would be. It is possible Rhaego was just a bonus for her.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    I thought I remember her saying she purposefully killed him.
    She purposely killed him later I believe, after Daeny asked her to use her blood magic to heal him.

    The original poultice, I believe, was a real one meant to help healing.
    hmm, in the show though, isn't it really a minor scratch? It seemed more like in this version she really did fuck with it, though I don't remember the exact nature of the wound in the book
    It wasn't really a minor scratch in the show. It was a deep but not immediately life threatening cut.

    Absent real medicine though, deep cuts are highly prone to infection and death. Without infection though, there would have been no long term damage. It's a crap shoot in a medieval culture.

    shryke on
This discussion has been closed.