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A Song of Ice and Fire - Here Be Spoilers. Book People! Discuss the TV Show Here!

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Posts

  • Dis'Dis' regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    spamfilter wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    book 2
    There was nobody in Renly's camp who was remotely as capable of a strategist as Tywin, Stannis, or the Blackfish. The entire campaign was Renly's vanity project (and Loras's, if you like the interpretation the HBO series went with. Which I do).
    His entire strategy was "I have the biggest army therefore I win."
    In all honesty, that's not that bad a strategy.
    It wasn't that much bigger. And I remember getting the distinct impression that his army was just not... not ready for war. They were all young people bred on stories of war and valor. He had a huge army who all loved Renly, but they weren't soldiers like they'd be facing from...


    Well, on that thought, who had the "real" soldiers? The North, I guess.

    Stannis was an amazing tactician, however.

    No medieval army is really ready for war, they're peasant levies. Had
    Renly lived and kept his host going, it seems likely that Bolton would have reevaluated turning on Rob, and Tywin would have absolutely no chance of keeping King's Landing from being sacked
    Doesn't someone in the books explicitly praise Renly's taking his time? Tyrion? The longer he waited the more likely Tywin and Robbs army would bleed each other to death and the worse the food situation in Kings Landing becomes (since Renly's army is blocking the food supply). The longer he waits the worse off his opponents will be facing his well rested army. Plus of course he wants to see Stannis make his play and react to that.

    Dis' on
  • zeenyzeeny regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    A lot of viewers in the HBO thread are watching the show as if it's Married with children. Don't post there though, because no matter what you say it will be spoilers even if it's been said 20 times in the series so far.

    I don't know what this means.

    That the memory goes back a couple of episodes if that at best. The show is closer to Lost than to a sitcom with regard to the involvement required by the viewer.

    zeeny on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    oooh right. I getcha.

    Apothe0sis on
    Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
    Es-annon NEVA 4GET
  • TastyfishTastyfish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Bizarre, are there any HBO shows like this or does the rest of the world just get the cream of the crop? I thought everything they do is pretty much a long serial narrative rather than episodes. Perhaps the Sopranos, but then I never managed to watch that properly?

    [edit]Wow. Didn't realise how much they did, and that the current format for what we think of as HBO shows is so recent.

    Tastyfish on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    any other HBO shows like what, I'm having some trouble parsing exactly what your question is

    Balefuego on
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  • TastyfishTastyfish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Balefuego wrote: »
    any other HBO shows like what, I'm having some trouble parsing exactly what your question is

    If I think HBO show, I'm thinking of the 45 min to an hour long episode that is part of a story told over the course of a series, rather than the more traditional sitcom/cop-show style of having discrete stories all within the same setting.

    The Wire vs Law and Order, etc.

    With that in mind, it seems odd that you'd expect the latter from Game of Thrones, when everything they have done so far is a story told over a series, rather than a set of stories told in a setting. Then again they've done really well in their international marketing, to the point that I was going to include Dexter in this example - but this does really just reinforce my point (at least as an international viewer), HBO is synonymous with a certain type of show.

    Tastyfish on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I dont think anyone actually expected anything else from Game of Thrones

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TastyfishTastyfish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Not to anyone who actually knew what the series was, though apparently I'm really not paying attention as I thought it said Forums rather than Thread (but then I've not seen this apparent short memory in the other thread that much, but then we have established that I am largely oblivious to goings on).

    As an aside, I think that On Demand viewing is a real boon to stories like this. Certainly makes it easier for people to get excited and catch up in a story rather than having the problem with bringing new viewers into a series half way through. On the otherhand, I've read far more Sword of Truth books than I wanted to because I'd started the series, so perhaps it's not all good.

    Tastyfish on
  • zeenyzeeny regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Tastyfish, you so confusing.

    zeeny on
  • Modern ManModern Man regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    spamfilter wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    book 2
    There was nobody in Renly's camp who was remotely as capable of a strategist as Tywin, Stannis, or the Blackfish. The entire campaign was Renly's vanity project (and Loras's, if you like the interpretation the HBO series went with. Which I do).
    His entire strategy was "I have the biggest army therefore I win."
    In all honesty, that's not that bad a strategy.
    It wasn't that much bigger. And I remember getting the distinct impression that his army was just not... not ready for war. They were all young people bred on stories of war and valor. He had a huge army who all loved Renly, but they weren't soldiers like they'd be facing from...


    Well, on that thought, who had the "real" soldiers? The North, I guess.

    Stannis was an amazing tactician, however.

    No medieval army is really ready for war, they're peasant levies. Had
    Renly lived and kept his host going, it seems likely that Bolton would have reevaluated turning on Rob, and Tywin would have absolutely no chance of keeping King's Landing from being sacked
    When you have the largest army in a conflict, you force others to react to you. Renly had no reason to rush or take the initiative, since there was no pressing need for him to commit to the conflict while the other factions were beating the crap out of each other. Strategically, he was in a very good position.

    Modern Man on
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    Rigorous Scholarship

  • TastyfishTastyfish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    zeeny wrote: »
    Tastyfish, you so confusing.

    The trick is to work out which words I've left out and not noticed because I can't fast enough, unfortunately when I read the sentences back I still remember what I'd originally intended to write, which makes spotting the fact I've only written half of it more complicated than it should be.

    Sorry. Hopefully the previous posts will be edited to make more sense.
    And "Type" was left out on purpose.

    To summarise the madness above.
    I thought the original post by you (Zeeny) was talking about HBO's official forums, rather than the thread on PA.

    Thus I was confused why people who were unaware of the series, but knew of the show on HBO, would be expecting a series focused on individual episodes rather than one long story told over the course of the series/season when that is what HBO is known for.

    Tastyfish on
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So. Show of hands. How many people are hyped for Ser Barristan Selmy's POV?

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  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Balefuego wrote: »
    as if I needed any more proof that Fizban lives on an entirely different plane of reality from the rest of us

    this so fucking much

    bwanie on
    Yh6tI4T.jpg
  • zeenyzeeny regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    Tastyfish, you so confusing.

    The trick is to work out which words I've left out and not noticed because I can't fast enough, unfortunately when I read the sentences back I still remember what I'd originally intended to write, which makes spotting the fact I've only written half of it more complicated than it should be.

    Sorry. Hopefully the previous posts will be edited to make more sense.
    And "Type" was left out on purpose.

    To summarise the madness above.
    I thought the original post by you (Zeeny) was talking about HBO's official forums, rather than the thread on PA.

    Thus I was confused why people who were unaware of the series, but knew of the show on HBO, would be expecting a series focused on individual episodes rather than one long story told over the course of the series/season when that is what HBO is known for.


    Aaaaaaaaaah. I was just being snarky to the HBO thread we have on here.

    zeeny on
  • TastyfishTastyfish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    zeeny wrote: »

    Aaaaaaaaaah. I was just being snarky to the HBO thread we have on here.

    It really is so much easier to have a conversation when you're actually talking about the same thing.

    Tastyfish on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The TV thread always forgets that winter is coming.

    Smaug6 on
    steam_sig.png
  • dojangodojango regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dis' wrote: »
    spamfilter wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    book 2
    There was nobody in Renly's camp who was remotely as capable of a strategist as Tywin, Stannis, or the Blackfish. The entire campaign was Renly's vanity project (and Loras's, if you like the interpretation the HBO series went with. Which I do).
    His entire strategy was "I have the biggest army therefore I win."
    In all honesty, that's not that bad a strategy.
    It wasn't that much bigger. And I remember getting the distinct impression that his army was just not... not ready for war. They were all young people bred on stories of war and valor. He had a huge army who all loved Renly, but they weren't soldiers like they'd be facing from...


    Well, on that thought, who had the "real" soldiers? The North, I guess.

    Stannis was an amazing tactician, however.

    No medieval army is really ready for war, they're peasant levies. Had
    Renly lived and kept his host going, it seems likely that Bolton would have reevaluated turning on Rob, and Tywin would have absolutely no chance of keeping King's Landing from being sacked
    Doesn't someone in the books explicitly praise Renly's taking his time? Tyrion? The longer he waited the more likely Tywin and Robbs army would bleed each other to death and the worse the food situation in Kings Landing becomes (since Renly's army is blocking the food supply). The longer he waits the worse off his opponents will be facing his well rested army. Plus of course he wants to see Stannis make his play and react to that.

    Re: Renly
    Yeah, Renly's strategy was predicated on letting the others fight it out and be weakened, and then sweeping in with his massive army. He also wasn't quite as naive as he's been portrayed in the movies, and he also had Tarly, who is described as a credible (if jerkish) battlefield commander.

    dojango on
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Man, I want to use certain ASoIaF icons referencing events from 10 year old books (Sansa or Hound/Sansa ones) but I'm afraid I'll get bitched at by the HBO series people.

    I'm also sad that the first season didn't reference this at all.
    WE95t.jpg
    (From http://www.winterfell.altervista.org if you didn't know)

    It bypassed The Tower of Joy and Promise Me Ned in its entirety. D:

    And my favorite quote isn't in there either:
    “Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.”

    vagrant_winds on
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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question: How many people's inner visions of characters have been replaced by the HBO series versions? Strangely, mine haven't. I still like the different artwork versions of characters more so in a lot of cases as much as I'm enjoying the series.

    vagrant_winds on
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  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    There have been references to Rhaegar in the TV series, but if you hadn't read the books you would have to be an uncommonly perceptive viewer to remember them and synthesize them into something significant. Hell, after I first read Game of Thrones I could have barely told you who Rhaegar was.

    book 2
    I am looking forward to seeing Rhaegar during Dany's vision at the House of the Undying.

    Hachface on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Man, I want to use certain ASoIaF icons referencing events from 10 year old books (Sansa or Hound/Sansa ones) but I'm afraid I'll get bitched at by the HBO series people.

    I'm also sad that the first season didn't reference this at all.
    WE95t.jpg
    (From http://www.winterfell.altervista.org if you didn't know)

    It bypassed The Tower of Joy and Promise Me Ned in its entirety. D:

    And my favorite quote isn't in there either:
    “Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.”

    that quote is from book 3


    also I suspect a lot of the Rheagar and Lyanna stuff will be told through the Reed kids in the 2nd season.

    Balefuego on
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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Man, I need to reread these things. Like a fourth time.

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  • HavelockHavelock regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    @ vagrant Most of the characters haven't been replaced, but Tyrion looks pretty much like peter dinklage now in my head.

    Havelock on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    bwanie wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    as if I needed any more proof that Fizban lives on an entirely different plane of reality from the rest of us

    this so fucking much

    I can't help that your opinions are wrong and that you are unwilling to hear anything contrary.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    (Book 4 Spoilers)
    tAzO4.jpg

    I mean, come on. After her suffering and survival, the unreliable narration of trying to make herself feel better, the Hound stuff, the Tyrion stuff, and then this. It's taken a while, but there's a lot of character growth in there. I rather think she'll be hardened player in the Game by the end.

    vagrant_winds on
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  • Modern ManModern Man regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    (Book 4 Spoilers)
    tAzO4.jpg

    I mean, come on. After her suffering and survival, the unreliable narration of trying to make herself feel better, the Hound stuff, the Tyrion stuff, and then this. It's taken a while, but there's a lot of character growth in there. I rather think she'll be hardened player in the Game by the end.
    It's tough not to feel sympathy for her. When the series starts she's 13 (?) or so, and she goes through a lot of shit. She basically believes that her entire family has been methodically hunted down and murdered. I'd like to see how her character develops going forward.

    Modern Man on
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  • valiancevaliance regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    (Book 4 Spoilers)
    tAzO4.jpg

    I mean, come on. After her suffering and survival, the unreliable narration of trying to make herself feel better, the Hound stuff, the Tyrion stuff, and then this. It's taken a while, but there's a lot of character growth in there. I rather think she'll be hardened player in the Game by the end.
    I feel bad for her; but I still don't know if I can forgive her for betraying Ned to Cersei. I do enjoy her growth. Anything is better than how she was initially.

    Anyone else think all the good POVs are in ADWD as opposed to ASOS? He even brought back the good characters from AFFC to reappear in ADWD: Jaime, Cersei, Arya plus Dany
    Also I'm very interested in this unreliable narrator stuff with Cersei and Sansa. is there more on that somewhere?

    valiance on
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning regular Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    Yeah, I think Sansa has the potential to be one of the best characters in the series.
    She's been very well written, and if she was unlikable at the beginning her character arc has the most potential. I can't think of another living character who has had as consistently rough a time as her. Everyone else has had ups and downs and friends to call on, but Sansa has been isolated and powerless in hostile territory for 3 books now, and I think she might come out of it harder and smarter than anybody else. Or Martin could have a gust of wind blow her off a mountain to her death. Never can tell.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    valiance wrote: »
    Anyone else think all the good POVs are in ADWD as opposed to ASOS? He even brought back the good characters from AFFC to reappear in ADWD: Jaime, Cersei, Arya plus Dany

    Jamie, Arya, and Sansa made AFoC for me. But yeah, you're kinda right.

    (Again, B4 Spoilers.)
    "Throw it in the fire." earns Jamie +50 points from me.

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  • CristoCristo regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Vagrant Winds - what's the context for that quote? I can't remember anymore!

    Cristo on
    Unlucky wrote: »
    So, after having read all of his stuff, Pony's officially my hero now. I wish I could be that callous towards humanity.
  • the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    Yeah, I think Sansa has the potential to be one of the best characters in the series.
    She's been very well written, and if she was unlikable at the beginning her character arc has the most potential. I can't think of another living character who has had as consistently rough a time as her. Everyone else has had ups and downs and friends to call on, but Sansa has been isolated and powerless in hostile territory for 3 books now, and I think she might come out of it harder and smarter than anybody else. Or Martin could have a gust of wind blow her off a mountain to her death. Never can tell.
    These books are so deliciously good that during that trek down from the Eyrie, last Sansa chapter in AFfC, I truly thought it was possible they would simply be sent to their death by an errant gust of wind. GRRM is just so damned good at his craft.

    As for my hopes for Sansa...if she serves Littlefinger some ultimate, final betrayal I will rejoice so hard.

    the Togfather on
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  • Reverend_ChaosReverend_Chaos Suit Up! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Cristo wrote: »
    Vagrant Winds - what's the context for that quote? I can't remember anymore!

    Isn't that what Jaime says(Book 3-4 spoilers)
    about his hand after they cut it off?

    Reverend_Chaos on
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  • Salvation122Salvation122 regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Cristo wrote: »
    Vagrant Winds - what's the context for that quote? I can't remember anymore!

    Isn't that what Jaime says(Book 3-4 spoilers)
    about his hand after they cut it off?
    It's his reply to Cersei's plea for him to come save her from the Faith.

    Salvation122 on
    sig.png
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Cristo wrote: »
    Vagrant Winds - what's the context for that quote? I can't remember anymore!

    Isn't that what Jaime says(Book 3-4 spoilers)
    about his hand after they cut it off?

    No. No. No. No. No.

    (Serious end of Book 4 spoilers.)
    Jamie ignoring his sister's pleading and begging love letter message for help from her cell.

    Edit: Beat.

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  • schussschuss regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I really want to like Sansa, but until she smartens enough to
    outwit Littlefinger
    I think she'll continue her toolishness. I was sad that the
    onion knight
    was discarded in such an offhand manner.

    schuss on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    schuss wrote: »
    I really want to like Sansa, but until she smartens enough to
    outwit Littlefinger
    I think she'll continue her toolishness. I was sad that the
    onion knight
    was discarded in such an offhand manner.
    In my opinion out of all the unconfirmed deaths this one was the most obvious, I can quite clearly see what is going to happen. Davos is still alive.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning regular Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited June 2011
    schuss wrote: »
    I really want to like Sansa, but until she smartens enough to
    outwit Littlefinger
    I think she'll continue her toolishness. I was sad that the
    onion knight
    was discarded in such an offhand manner.

    Regarding the second point,
    we don't really know what happened to the Onion Knight. Remember a bunch of stuff happening 'off-screen' in AFfC will be described in detail in the next book, as much of ADwD is supposed to be happening concurrently with AFfC. Presumably whatever is going on with Davos will be described through PoV in the next book. Probably. Or, you know, gust of wind, etc.

    Tiger Burning on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    At what point does DWD pick up? I have heard quite a lot of things from, towards the later chapters in AFFC and at the beginning of AFFC.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning regular Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited June 2011
    Dunno. It's been quite a while (years) since I read the sample chapters, and I don't know if there are clues there. Has he given an explicit answer on the question? I guess one way to estimate it is go through AFfC until you come across a reference to something happening 'off-screen' that you would really expect to be described in detail.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • masc.boxmasc.box Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Another question. Are there any people besides me that actually grew to like Sansa as a character in spite of being annoyed with her at first?

    She has grown on me throughout the series, I like her.

    Oh and another thing...

    Serious Book 3 Spoiler
    Rereading book 3, its suprising how much effort Martin puts in to showing that there is a future storyline for Robb & Catelyn - He goes into great detail on Robb's plan to retake Moat Cailin after Edmure's wedding. Sending Catelyn to Seaguard, (i think it was Seaguard) and i feel its hinted at a little that she finds this Lord in Seaguard attractive..

    Even Arya looks like she is going to return and the most awesome character in the books (Sandor) looks like he might join the North if Robb lets him.

    Then Red Wedding Shit Storm.

    Oh George how I loathe (love) you.

    masc.box on
This discussion has been closed.