Tito handles her easily but he's also well over 200 pounds and still competitive with top tier guys like Forrest, Machida, Hamill etc
I'd love to see her against a male featherweight though. I've seen other women actually beat men in their own weightclass in Vale Tudo so I think Cris could at least beat a few c-league guys herself.
I know there's a video somewhere of her fighting some muy thai guy in a gym and doing really really well, though that is standup fighting which is worlds apart from MMA as far as man vs woman goes
I know Tito is easy to hate but he has been competitive despite facing top competition the last few years.
Starting with the no.1 contender today in Rashad which he drew with (and would actually have won had he not had a point deducted from him during the fight...). After that he went the distance with Lyoto (another "one of the best") who he clearly lost to but also nearly submitted. After that he faces off with and loses a split decision against Forrest (someone he had beat in the past too) after an extremely close 2 rounds before he gasses and then he pretty much repeas the same performance against Hamill
Had he been facing lesser names instead of the best in the division I'm pretty certain he would be on a winning streak right now but due to his salary he has been paired with the very best and not quite measured up due to his inability to keep up in the later rounds.
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
They would get destroyed.
Yeah, I didn't want to say it for fear of getting attacked for being "sexist" or whatever, but... Yeah, I'm with Dyna and Peen on this one. Could Cyborg beat some C-list dudes at her weight? Probably. But she's also the best female fighter I've seen. I mean, I don't give any other woman a good chance against her. She's the exception, not the rule.
What the fuck, I just read the full report and what he did was absolutely deplorable.
I lost all respect for Brett Rogers. Fuck that guy.
Full report below:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2011, at approximately 12:35 a.m., officers were dispatched to an area in the City of Apple Valley, Dakota County, Minnesota, where a caller reported hearing the sounds of yelling, a female screaming, and glass being broken coming from a neighbor’s home. Officers located a male at the residence, fully identified as Brett Charles Rogers, date of birth 2/17/1981, who agreed to speak with officers on the driveway of the residence. Rogers stated that he had argued with his wife, T.R., and that when she hit him during the argument, he hit her back. Rogers had no visible injuries on his body. Rogers’ speech was slurred and his breath smelled of alcohol, and he advised he had been consuming alcohol that evening.
Rogers permitted the officers to look for T.R. inside the residence but she could not be located. A neighbor reported that he had looked out his residence window and saw Rogers standing over T.R. and punching her multiple times in the head and face as she lay on the ground. Another neighbor stated he saw T.R. with blood streaming from her face and mouth and what looked like a missing tooth. Rogers’ nine-year old daughter reported that she had heard her parents yelling, she went to the kitchen, and saw her father pushing her mother multiple times up against a kitchen cabinet. The girl reported she shouted for her father to stop. Rogers’ ten-year old daughter reported that she heard the shouting, and had seen her father strike her mother in the past. She also reported that her father had struck the children within the last two years.
T.R. was located by other officers walking by a nearby school. T.R. had obvious signs of injury on her face, including a golf ball size bump above her left eyebrow, a bump on her right eyebrow, and one in the middle of her forehead, injuries to her ears and jaw, along with blood on her face and a missing tooth. She also had injuries to her neck and back. T.R. repeatedly denied that she had been assaulted and said she had simply fallen on the ground. Paramedics were called due to what appeared to be serious injuries to T.R.’s head. T.R. was transported to the hospital.
In the ambulance, T.R. spoke with an officer and paramedics about her injuries. T.R. advised that she and her husband had been arguing that night. He became angry and grabbed her with both hands around her neck and squeezed. She was able to get away and went into the back yard. Her husband followed her and got her on the ground and began hitting her about her head and face, causing her to “black out.” By the time T.R. arrived at the hospital, her ear had swollen and had a “cauliflower ear” look. T.R. stated she did not want her husband charged with assault because she did not want to cause him trouble with his job.
T.R. was released from the hospital at approximately 4:30 p.m. Rogers and T.R.’s children, who had been staying with a neighbor while their mother was in the hospital, told the neighbor that they were afraid to go home, and that their father had “choked” them in the past. An officer attempted to meet with T.R. to take follow-up photos of what he expected would have developed into significant bruising. T.R. refused to meet with the officer and told him that the assault was her fault.
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
They would get destroyed.
Yeah, I didn't want to say it for fear of getting attacked for being "sexist" or whatever, but... Yeah, I'm with Dyna and Peen on this one. Could Cyborg beat some C-list dudes at her weight? Probably. But she's also the best female fighter I've seen. I mean, I don't give any other woman a good chance against her. She's the exception, not the rule.
These guys handled it but yeah. There's a reason there aren't women playing professional contact sports with men and that reason is muscles.
Jesus, the worst part is that his wife blames herself for him beating her and the kids mention he's strangled them before.
So does Dana White fire him or feed him to some loving father and make bank off people enjoying seeing a wife beater get his ass beaten.
Dana White would have to be a deplorable piece of shit to let a wife beater remain employed.
Can he fire him for the accusation alone though? I mean right now he's only charged not convicted, if the wife refuses to press charges or allow photos to be taken the case could fall through.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Jesus, the worst part is that his wife blames herself for him beating her and the kids mention he's strangled them before.
So does Dana White fire him or feed him to some loving father and make bank off people enjoying seeing a wife beater get his ass beaten.
Dana White would have to be a deplorable piece of shit to let a wife beater remain employed.
Can he fire him for the accusation alone though? I mean right now he's only charged not convicted, if the wife refuses to press charges or allow photos to be taken the case could fall through.
Not sure if it's an at-will style contract, but it'll probably be infinitely easier to get rid of him since Rogers is still on a Strikeforce contract last I checked.
Getting arrested sounds like grounds to call breach of contract.
I imagine they could just never book him in a fight and pay off what's left of his contract right at the end if they can't release him, like they were going to do to Mayhem.
edit: I think if the wife refuses to press charges the state can do it on her behalf anyway, or at least I've seen that on cops a few times which of course makes it true
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
It's a fantastic idea if you want to see states start banning MMA all over again.
Otherwise...not so much.
Granted, I would say letting just Cyborg fight men in her weight class would be ok. She's just that intense. But other than her, I can't think of any woman with the viciousness that would allow to compete with all these jacked up dudes.
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
1) I'm glad I got to see Brett Rodgers get dominated now, that is some downright bullshit. My only wish was that Barnett had hurt him more.
2) I'm sorry, but women's MMA is very boring to me and I could care less what happens to it. Call me sexist, but I've virtually no interest in it and believe that the only exciting parts to watch would be to see Cyborg fight a guy. However, seeing as how that is a ridiculous idea, that will never happen and I will still not care about this 'division'
3) How is Matt Hamill in the top tier? Who did he beat worth substance when he fought them? He got absolutely destroyed by Jon Jones and only won because the ref decided to let Jones beat the ever loving shit out of him before he called a time thanks to some 12 to 6 elbows. In his most recent fight he got dominated by Rampage and didn't look remotely good. I think he must have landed all of like 10 strikes or something. Matt Hamill isn't bad by any means, but to call him top tier talent is an insult to true top tier talent.
Jesus, the worst part is that his wife blames herself for him beating her and the kids mention he's strangled them before.
So does Dana White fire him or feed him to some loving father and make bank off people enjoying seeing a wife beater get his ass beaten.
Dana White would have to be a deplorable piece of shit to let a wife beater remain employed.
Can he fire him for the accusation alone though? I mean right now he's only charged not convicted, if the wife refuses to press charges or allow photos to be taken the case could fall through.
Jesus, the worst part is that his wife blames herself for him beating her and the kids mention he's strangled them before.
So does Dana White fire him or feed him to some loving father and make bank off people enjoying seeing a wife beater get his ass beaten.
Dana White would have to be a deplorable piece of shit to let a wife beater remain employed.
Can he fire him for the accusation alone though? I mean right now he's only charged not convicted, if the wife refuses to press charges or allow photos to be taken the case could fall through.
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
It's a fantastic idea if you want to see states start banning MMA all over again.
Otherwise...not so much.
Granted, I would say letting just Cyborg fight men in her weight class would be ok. She's just that intense. But other than her, I can't think of any woman with the viciousness that would allow to compete with all these jacked up dudes.
Honestly think about it for a second. She fights at 145, roughly, and think about the top guys in that division and Cyborg fighting any of them: Jose Aldo, Kenny Florian (rep alone I know, shut up), Mark Hominick, Manny G, Tyson Griffin, hell even the Korean Zombie and Leonard Garcia and Mike Brown. I'm sorry but good as she is Cyborg's gonna get run over by any of those guys.
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
It's a fantastic idea if you want to see states start banning MMA all over again.
Otherwise...not so much.
Granted, I would say letting just Cyborg fight men in her weight class would be ok. She's just that intense. But other than her, I can't think of any woman with the viciousness that would allow to compete with all these jacked up dudes.
Honestly think about it for a second. She fights at 145, roughly, and think about the top guys in that division and Cyborg fighting any of them: Jose Aldo, Kenny Florian (rep alone I know, shut up), Mark Hominick, Manny G, Tyson Griffin, hell even the Korean Zombie and Leonard Garcia and Mike Brown. I'm sorry but good as she is Cyborg's gonna get run over by any of those guys.
It's a simple fix; special ruleset where the female fighter is allowed to strike the groin.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
2) I'm sorry, but women's MMA is very boring to me and I could care less what happens to it. Call me sexist, but I've virtually no interest in it and believe that the only exciting parts to watch would be to see Cyborg fight a guy. However, seeing as how that is a ridiculous idea, that will never happen and I will still not care about this 'division'
re: women's mma... I don't think its boring with a caveat- I think its headed to a bad place.
Edit- Wife says its mildly sexist how I put it. I am a sad couch sleeping on knuckle dragger.....
She says that what I meant to say is Cyborg presents a visual disparity with the other fighters. Whether that is due to the lack of weight classes, cyborg possibly cutting weight where others do not as much or whatever. Cyborg ins skill and size makes its seem unfair and that is where my issues lies.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
I'm all for letting women fight in the same weight classes as men.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
Really? Pray tell why?
It's a fantastic idea if you want to see states start banning MMA all over again.
Otherwise...not so much.
Granted, I would say letting just Cyborg fight men in her weight class would be ok. She's just that intense. But other than her, I can't think of any woman with the viciousness that would allow to compete with all these jacked up dudes.
Honestly think about it for a second. She fights at 145, roughly, and think about the top guys in that division and Cyborg fighting any of them: Jose Aldo, Kenny Florian (rep alone I know, shut up), Mark Hominick, Manny G, Tyson Griffin, hell even the Korean Zombie and Leonard Garcia and Mike Brown. I'm sorry but good as she is Cyborg's gonna get run over by any of those guys.
It's a simple fix; special ruleset where the female fighter is allowed to strike the groin.
Honestly watch some of the vids of cyborg rolling with guys.... I dunno man... she has the skills...
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
She rolls hard with guys her size and bigger. She spars with guys her size and bigger. And from every training video I've seen of her, they don't hold back much (if any).
Now that she's not under Zuffa, she should just destroy every woman in the world and then immediately start challenging men and beat them, too. Just for fun.
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
I mean I'll believe that a woman can compete with a man in high level professional MMA when I see it. I don't have any trouble believing that she can roll with them.
I think they'd do very poorly against men in their weight class. Only the very exceptional would even have a chance. Cyborg, but more of her and better still.
I think they'd do very poorly against men in their weight class. Only the very exceptional would even have a chance. Cyborg, but more of her and better still.
One of the biggest known problems of women's MMA is finding more of her.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Was at work so wasn't able to respond, but I don't necessarily disagree with the assessment being made. There are obvious, for lack of a better term, optics in play. It's going to be hard to get people to overcome their intuitive, visceral response to hearing about a man fighting a woman. My main argument is that having someone be a woman should not in and of itself disqualify her from competing with men.
Saying that a woman has "less muscles" may be physically true, but so what? There is a size/shape disparity across all weight classes among men (Fedor is barely 6 feet tall but dominated the heavyweight division). Does that preclude them from fighting against each other, just because their bodies hold the same weight differently? Assuming a fighter like Cyborg meets the same weight requirements, I don't see why she can't be afforded the opportunity to fight men. I think I've been on record before as saying I'm not a big fan of the "pure" weight requirement for fighting, but if that's going to be the criterion, then so be it. If you really care all that much about the "overall strength" disparity between men and women, give women 10-20 more pounds. Then things should be "equal", right?
Similarly, I don't think the argument that she would be "destroyed" is a valid one. There are talent and skill disparities in any given weight class regardless of gender. If you're so sure she would beat "C-level" competition but wouldn't stand a chance against "A-level" fighters, well that puts her in the same boat as a lot of other professional male fighters. But precluding her the opportunity to test her skills against someone with roughly the same physical requirements purely because she's a woman it not a valid argument, and using her gender as a proxy for her lack of competitive parity appears, for lack of a better term, sexist.
Let's be honest here, if Cyborg were to have professional fights against bunch of guys in the same weight class and always loses to the Top 10 but beats everyone else, how would that differentiate her from, say, Michael Bisping, Brett Rogers, or Keith Jardine? (Yeah, I went there. Suck it.)
Like I said, I agree that women, on average, are physically weaker than men (and hence, the number of women who could compete with men would be extremely low in a sport like MMA). I also agree that it would be a really hard sell in our current society. However, I'm not necessarily convinced that preventing women from competing against men just because they are women is logically or ethically sound.
Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf6-hZ2wIls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf6-hZ2wIls
Tito handles her easily but he's also well over 200 pounds and still competitive with top tier guys like Forrest, Machida, Hamill etc
I'd love to see her against a male featherweight though. I've seen other women actually beat men in their own weightclass in Vale Tudo so I think Cris could at least beat a few c-league guys herself.
I know there's a video somewhere of her fighting some muy thai guy in a gym and doing really really well, though that is standup fighting which is worlds apart from MMA as far as man vs woman goes
Tito.
Competitive.
Hahahaha.
I know Tito is easy to hate but he has been competitive despite facing top competition the last few years.
Starting with the no.1 contender today in Rashad which he drew with (and would actually have won had he not had a point deducted from him during the fight...). After that he went the distance with Lyoto (another "one of the best") who he clearly lost to but also nearly submitted. After that he faces off with and loses a split decision against Forrest (someone he had beat in the past too) after an extremely close 2 rounds before he gasses and then he pretty much repeas the same performance against Hamill
Had he been facing lesser names instead of the best in the division I'm pretty certain he would be on a winning streak right now but due to his salary he has been paired with the very best and not quite measured up due to his inability to keep up in the later rounds.
This is an almost comedically bad idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g6QYmMh5v8
Really? Pray tell why?
They would get destroyed.
I wish him the best of luck.
Yeah, I didn't want to say it for fear of getting attacked for being "sexist" or whatever, but... Yeah, I'm with Dyna and Peen on this one. Could Cyborg beat some C-list dudes at her weight? Probably. But she's also the best female fighter I've seen. I mean, I don't give any other woman a good chance against her. She's the exception, not the rule.
holy crap. yikes...
I lost all respect for Brett Rogers. Fuck that guy.
Full report below:
EDIT: Oh, Sherdog...
Hahaha.... poor guy.
These guys handled it but yeah. There's a reason there aren't women playing professional contact sports with men and that reason is muscles.
Also Brett Rogers is a bad person.
So does Dana White fire him or feed him to some loving father and make bank off people enjoying seeing a wife beater get his ass beaten.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Can he fire him for the accusation alone though? I mean right now he's only charged not convicted, if the wife refuses to press charges or allow photos to be taken the case could fall through.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Getting arrested sounds like grounds to call breach of contract.
edit: I think if the wife refuses to press charges the state can do it on her behalf anyway, or at least I've seen that on cops a few times which of course makes it true
It's a fantastic idea if you want to see states start banning MMA all over again.
Otherwise...not so much.
Granted, I would say letting just Cyborg fight men in her weight class would be ok. She's just that intense. But other than her, I can't think of any woman with the viciousness that would allow to compete with all these jacked up dudes.
CHAEL SONNEN IS BACK
cheater gets caught
domestic violence
cyborg leaves sf
another cheater gets reinstated
tito fight
not a good week so far
Rogers has been released, after all, though.
1) I'm glad I got to see Brett Rodgers get dominated now, that is some downright bullshit. My only wish was that Barnett had hurt him more.
2) I'm sorry, but women's MMA is very boring to me and I could care less what happens to it. Call me sexist, but I've virtually no interest in it and believe that the only exciting parts to watch would be to see Cyborg fight a guy. However, seeing as how that is a ridiculous idea, that will never happen and I will still not care about this 'division'
3) How is Matt Hamill in the top tier? Who did he beat worth substance when he fought them? He got absolutely destroyed by Jon Jones and only won because the ref decided to let Jones beat the ever loving shit out of him before he called a time thanks to some 12 to 6 elbows. In his most recent fight he got dominated by Rampage and didn't look remotely good. I think he must have landed all of like 10 strikes or something. Matt Hamill isn't bad by any means, but to call him top tier talent is an insult to true top tier talent.
He's fired now apparently.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/30/2253216/dana-white-brett-rogers-fired-immediately-mma-news
Good riddance.
Honestly think about it for a second. She fights at 145, roughly, and think about the top guys in that division and Cyborg fighting any of them: Jose Aldo, Kenny Florian (rep alone I know, shut up), Mark Hominick, Manny G, Tyson Griffin, hell even the Korean Zombie and Leonard Garcia and Mike Brown. I'm sorry but good as she is Cyborg's gonna get run over by any of those guys.
re: women's mma... I don't think its boring with a caveat- I think its headed to a bad place.
Edit- Wife says its mildly sexist how I put it. I am a sad couch sleeping on knuckle dragger.....
She says that what I meant to say is Cyborg presents a visual disparity with the other fighters. Whether that is due to the lack of weight classes, cyborg possibly cutting weight where others do not as much or whatever. Cyborg ins skill and size makes its seem unfair and that is where my issues lies.
Honestly watch some of the vids of cyborg rolling with guys.... I dunno man... she has the skills...
She rolls hard with guys her size and bigger. She spars with guys her size and bigger. And from every training video I've seen of her, they don't hold back much (if any).
Now that she's not under Zuffa, she should just destroy every woman in the world and then immediately start challenging men and beat them, too. Just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf6-hZ2wIls&feature=player_embedded
she gets tapped but arona bombs the much larger tito. Yea.
And fuuuck are they sweaty....
Saying that a woman has "less muscles" may be physically true, but so what? There is a size/shape disparity across all weight classes among men (Fedor is barely 6 feet tall but dominated the heavyweight division). Does that preclude them from fighting against each other, just because their bodies hold the same weight differently? Assuming a fighter like Cyborg meets the same weight requirements, I don't see why she can't be afforded the opportunity to fight men. I think I've been on record before as saying I'm not a big fan of the "pure" weight requirement for fighting, but if that's going to be the criterion, then so be it. If you really care all that much about the "overall strength" disparity between men and women, give women 10-20 more pounds. Then things should be "equal", right?
Similarly, I don't think the argument that she would be "destroyed" is a valid one. There are talent and skill disparities in any given weight class regardless of gender. If you're so sure she would beat "C-level" competition but wouldn't stand a chance against "A-level" fighters, well that puts her in the same boat as a lot of other professional male fighters. But precluding her the opportunity to test her skills against someone with roughly the same physical requirements purely because she's a woman it not a valid argument, and using her gender as a proxy for her lack of competitive parity appears, for lack of a better term, sexist.
Let's be honest here, if Cyborg were to have professional fights against bunch of guys in the same weight class and always loses to the Top 10 but beats everyone else, how would that differentiate her from, say, Michael Bisping, Brett Rogers, or Keith Jardine? (Yeah, I went there. Suck it.)
Like I said, I agree that women, on average, are physically weaker than men (and hence, the number of women who could compete with men would be extremely low in a sport like MMA). I also agree that it would be a really hard sell in our current society. However, I'm not necessarily convinced that preventing women from competing against men just because they are women is logically or ethically sound.