It's times like that when you pity lawyers. They've got to make a good faith effort and when their client tells them "we don't want to pay them for it because that would cost money," and they can't use that argument, then they've got to come up with something. Same with "i'm pleading not guilty because i don't want to go to jail, make it work."
It's times like that when you pity lawyers. They've got to make a good faith effort and when their client tells them "we don't want to pay them for it because that would cost money," and they can't use that argument, then they've got to come up with something. Same with "i'm pleading not guilty because i don't want to go to jail, make it work."
Except that unless they are a public defender, lawyers pick their clients. And lawyers choose to become public defenders (which I am not disparaging, I think it's admirable.)
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
It's times like that when you pity lawyers. They've got to make a good faith effort and when their client tells them "we don't want to pay them for it because that would cost money," and they can't use that argument, then they've got to come up with something. Same with "i'm pleading not guilty because i don't want to go to jail, make it work."
Except that unless they are a public defender, lawyers pick their clients. And lawyers choose to become public defenders (which I am not disparaging, I think it's admirable.)
I was thinking of lawyers on retainer, as they tend to be for large corporations or wealthy people.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
It's times like that when you pity lawyers. They've got to make a good faith effort and when their client tells them "we don't want to pay them for it because that would cost money," and they can't use that argument, then they've got to come up with something. Same with "i'm pleading not guilty because i don't want to go to jail, make it work."
Except that unless they are a public defender, lawyers pick their clients. And lawyers choose to become public defenders (which I am not disparaging, I think it's admirable.)
I was thinking of lawyers on retainer, as they tend to be for large corporations or wealthy people.
At that point you're getting paid pretty big bucks, so I'm sure you can come up with something clever.
It's times like that when you pity lawyers. They've got to make a good faith effort and when their client tells them "we don't want to pay them for it because that would cost money," and they can't use that argument, then they've got to come up with something. Same with "i'm pleading not guilty because i don't want to go to jail, make it work."
Except that unless they are a public defender, lawyers pick their clients. And lawyers choose to become public defenders (which I am not disparaging, I think it's admirable.)
I was thinking of lawyers on retainer, as they tend to be for large corporations or wealthy people.
At that point you're getting paid pretty big bucks, so I'm sure you can come up with something clever.
Not a lot of room left for clever when your client is nickel and dimeing people's paychecks by saying it doesn't need to pay them to put on their legally required personal protective equipment.
Well, there were 992,885 Dem votes cast, and 1,064,176 GOP votes cast in the primary.Bradley won with 1,008,970 votes to 917,357. So, yeah. Looks about right.
Map really shows how it's Madison and Milwaukee verse the rest of the state, for the most part. Iron County in Wisconsin is now deeply anti-walker (If not anti-GOP) because they got fucked over by Walker with the iron mine that was going to go up there, and then Menominee County NW of Green Bay because they were fucked by Walker and the Potawatami over their plans for a Casino in Milwaukee after going so far as offering to FULLY FUND the publics portion of the Bucks new arena.
Rest of the state, for the most part, as long as it makes the liberals in Madison upset (Or less charitably, keeps the blacks in Milwaukee down) they'll vote for it. 2018 will probably end up being the year I finally just give up on the state after Walker wins a third term as governor.
Now... something you Wisconsinites can explain to me... NPR characterized Walker as the "popular" governor from Wisconsin who endorsed Cruz, hence the reason that Cruz won.
Is Walker really "Popular"?? I thought he was incredibly polarizing and had rather low favorable notwithstanding surviving the recall election.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Now... something you Wisconsinites can explain to me... NPR characterized Walker as the "popular" governor from Wisconsin who endorsed Cruz, hence the reason that Cruz won.
Is Walker really "Popular"?? I thought he was incredibly polarizing and had rather low favorable notwithstanding surviving the recall election.
I believe among GOP voters he's still fairly popular.
Well, there were 992,885 Dem votes cast, and 1,064,176 GOP votes cast in the primary.Bradley won with 1,008,970 votes to 917,357. So, yeah. Looks about right.
Map really shows how it's Madison and Milwaukee verse the rest of the state, for the most part. Iron County in Wisconsin is now deeply anti-walker (If not anti-GOP) because they got fucked over by Walker with the iron mine that was going to go up there, and then Menominee County NW of Green Bay because they were fucked by Walker and the Potawatami over their plans for a Casino in Milwaukee after going so far as offering to FULLY FUND the publics portion of the Bucks new arena.
Rest of the state, for the most part, as long as it makes the liberals in Madison upset (Or less charitably, keeps the blacks in Milwaukee down) they'll vote for it. 2018 will probably end up being the year I finally just give up on the state after Walker wins a third term as governor.
Oh man, you guys don't have term limits? Rick Scott is out on his butt* in two years regardless of what the swamp people / lower-Alabamians want. You have my sympathies.
Nope, no term limits. Dems were starting to push for it around 2000 during Tommy Thompson's 4th term, but then Bush swooped in and stole him away making him the HHS Secretary and the talk of term limits were tabled.
Electing judges is a key aspect of government fuckery.
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
Electing judges is a key aspect of government fuckery.
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
Yeah, if the power of appointment was in the executives hands Wisconsin wouldn't be any different today. Walkers choice won. At least yesterday there was a chance that wouldn't have happened.
There's a long list of pros and cons for both sides of the argument, but if a bad choice is going to be made I'd rather have it come from the actual will of the people through a vote than a single person's choice.
WTF is a judicial election doing in a primary ballot?
Because they don't want a more liberal judge so they have been sticking the supreme court races to weird off schedule or off presidential cycle elections.
WTF is a judicial election doing in a primary ballot?
Because they don't want a more liberal judge so they have been sticking the supreme court races to weird off schedule or off presidential cycle elections.
As far as I'm aware, the supreme court election has always been held in the April election in Wisconsin, with the idea being that it can help avoid the partisanness of the November election.
Also, in what has now been 102 supreme court elections (State constitution limits it to a single election each year for supreme court) the incumbent has lost only 7 times. Bradley was the incumbent since she was appointed by Walker last October.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Electing judges is a key aspect of government fuckery.
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
The current state of Wisconsin is not caused by the exact distribution of power between branches of government.
It's caused by voters voting for Walker. The mess is democracy working as intended: the voters wanted this, voted for it, and they are now getting it.
Electing judges, whose main function is to be independent of public opinion, is not the way to deal with voters wanting to ruin their State.
Electing judges is a key aspect of government fuckery.
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
The current state of Wisconsin is not caused by the exact distribution of power between branches of government.
It's caused by voters voting for Walker. The mess is democracy working as intended: the voters wanted this, voted for it, and they are now getting it.
Electing judges, whose main function is to be independent of public opinion, is not the way to deal with voters wanting to ruin their State.
Neither is having those same judges be appointed by the governor they keep deciding to elect in their nihilistic fugue state.
Electing judges is a key aspect of government fuckery.
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
The current state of Wisconsin is not caused by the exact distribution of power between branches of government.
It's caused by voters voting for Walker. The mess is democracy working as intended: the voters wanted this, voted for it, and they are now getting it.
Electing judges, whose main function is to be independent of public opinion, is not the way to deal with voters wanting to ruin their State.
Neither is having those same judges be appointed by the governor they keep deciding to elect in their nihilistic fugue state.
There's no right answer here.
To deal with voters, no. That's democracy, sadly.
At least not electing judges helps to ensure their independence from public opinion. That way, you don't have judges making ads bragging about how many people they condemn to death, in what were surely perfectly justified sentences after a fair trial.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited April 2016
Court: Wisconsin right-to-work law championed by GOP Gov. Scott Walker unconstitutional. — @APacMan
Dane County Judge William Foust, take a bow. Shame the state's SC probably won't let his move to higher courts.
The Guardian has released a trove of 1500 documents compiled by prosecutors on the John Doe campaign finance violation investigation into Scott Walker.
Because Scott Walker asked. That could stand as an elegant catchphrase for the state of democracy in the US today, where elections are lost or won as much according to candidates’ ability to attract corporate cash as by the strength of their leadership or ideas.
The phrase is to be found within a batch of 1,500 pages of leaked documents obtained by the Guardian that are being published in their entirety for the first time. The cache consists of a stack of evidence gathered by official prosecutors in Wisconsin who were conducting what was called a “John Doe investigation” into suspected campaign finance violations by Walker's campaign and its network.
The John Doe files published today open a door onto how modern US elections operate in the wake of Citizens United, the 2010 US supreme court ruling that unleashed a flood of corporate money into the political process. They speak to the mounting sense of public unease about the cosy relationship between politicians and big business, and to the frustration of millions of Americans who feel disenfranchised by an electoral system that put the needs of corporate donors before ordinary voters.
Also, special note needs to be made of how corrupt WI Supreme Court Justice David Prosser is:
Take David Prosser. He was one of the four conservative judges who approved the July 2015 ruling that terminated the John Doe investigation, sacked Schmitz from his position as special prosecutor and ordered the destruction of all the documents that had been collected ...Prosser was in his own electoral fight for survival. He was up for re-election in April 2011...[and]...By the end of the bitter campaign, some $3.5m was spent by outside lobby groups channeling undisclosed corporate money to support Prosser's re-election...That included $1.5m from WCfG and its offshoot Citizens for a Strong America, and $2m from Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce (WMC), all of it in unaccountable “dark money”
...
Both of the two outside groups that channeled the recall election money (WCfG and WMC) are named as “movants” of the John Doe criminal investigation into alleged campaign finance violations...[y]et when it was suggested to Prosser and a second conservative judge on the court, Justice Michael Gableman, that they should recuse themselves from deliberations in the case, they both refused.
In their petition to the US supreme court, the prosecutors challenge that refusal, arguing that “the special prosecutor did not receive a fair and impartial hearing”. The petitioners go on to discuss Prosser in detail, but the passage is so heavily redacted that their argument is obscured. They do say at one point, quoting constitutional law, that “No jurist 'can be a judge in his own case or be permitted to try cases where he has an interest in the outcome'.”
Also, special note needs to be made of how corrupt WI Supreme Court Justice David Prosser is:
Take David Prosser. He was one of the four conservative judges who approved the July 2015 ruling that terminated the John Doe investigation, sacked Schmitz from his position as special prosecutor and ordered the destruction of all the documents that had been collected ...Prosser was in his own electoral fight for survival. He was up for re-election in April 2011...[and]...By the end of the bitter campaign, some $3.5m was spent by outside lobby groups channeling undisclosed corporate money to support Prosser's re-election...That included $1.5m from WCfG and its offshoot Citizens for a Strong America, and $2m from Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce (WMC), all of it in unaccountable “dark money”
...
Both of the two outside groups that channeled the recall election money (WCfG and WMC) are named as “movants” of the John Doe criminal investigation into alleged campaign finance violations...[y]et when it was suggested to Prosser and a second conservative judge on the court, Justice Michael Gableman, that they should recuse themselves from deliberations in the case, they both refused.
In their petition to the US supreme court, the prosecutors challenge that refusal, arguing that “the special prosecutor did not receive a fair and impartial hearing”. The petitioners go on to discuss Prosser in detail, but the passage is so heavily redacted that their argument is obscured. They do say at one point, quoting constitutional law, that “No jurist 'can be a judge in his own case or be permitted to try cases where he has an interest in the outcome'.”
The Guardian reported Wednesday that it obtained leaked documents showing Walker and his fundraisers approached corporate leaders and asked them to donate to Wisconsin Club for Growth. Walker sought money from the head of a company that produced lead used in paint, and after the owner gave $750,000 to Wisconsin Club for Growth, Republicans passed legislation granting lead manufacturers immunity from paint-poisoning lawsuits.
Assembly Democrats said during a news conference that the documents raise more questions about what other bills the GOP has passed in exchange for donations and that clean, open government in Wisconsin is dead.
Republicans pushed back on allegations of any quid pro quo arrangement, arguing they didn't directly receive money from the groups that would have benefited from the legislation.
The ol' "We didn't get a bag of money handed directly to me" excuse.
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Hormel just wants to make sure that there's a pinch of Mitch in every bite.
Except that unless they are a public defender, lawyers pick their clients. And lawyers choose to become public defenders (which I am not disparaging, I think it's admirable.)
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I was thinking of lawyers on retainer, as they tend to be for large corporations or wealthy people.
At that point you're getting paid pretty big bucks, so I'm sure you can come up with something clever.
An enforcer for Nixon's old dirty tricks crew with a penchant for beating women into the hospital.
...you know, I wish I could say that I was shocked.
Not a lot of room left for clever when your client is nickel and dimeing people's paychecks by saying it doesn't need to pay them to put on their legally required personal protective equipment.
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Map really shows how it's Madison and Milwaukee verse the rest of the state, for the most part. Iron County in Wisconsin is now deeply anti-walker (If not anti-GOP) because they got fucked over by Walker with the iron mine that was going to go up there, and then Menominee County NW of Green Bay because they were fucked by Walker and the Potawatami over their plans for a Casino in Milwaukee after going so far as offering to FULLY FUND the publics portion of the Bucks new arena.
Rest of the state, for the most part, as long as it makes the liberals in Madison upset (Or less charitably, keeps the blacks in Milwaukee down) they'll vote for it. 2018 will probably end up being the year I finally just give up on the state after Walker wins a third term as governor.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Is Walker really "Popular"?? I thought he was incredibly polarizing and had rather low favorable notwithstanding surviving the recall election.
I believe among GOP voters he's still fairly popular.
Pretty much. Wisconsin is a state politely at war with itself.
Judicial elections are always in the spring election in Wisconsin.
Yeah, I'm not happy about it either.
Oh man, you guys don't have term limits? Rick Scott is out on his butt* in two years regardless of what the swamp people / lower-Alabamians want. You have my sympathies.
*(Cue tangent on whether snakes have butts)
I think the Wisconsin Gubbamint Fuckery thread might be the wrong place to make a stand against democratically elected judges.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I wouldn't be surprised if that judge was elected (and probably would have no problem getting reelected after that debacle.)
And we're completely lacking in examples of executive appointment having been absolutely terrible?
I'm not a huge fan of judicial elections, either. But the current state of Wisconsin, along with other notable examples, isn't a great sales pitch for putting power in the hands of the executive branch.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Yeah, if the power of appointment was in the executives hands Wisconsin wouldn't be any different today. Walkers choice won. At least yesterday there was a chance that wouldn't have happened.
There's a long list of pros and cons for both sides of the argument, but if a bad choice is going to be made I'd rather have it come from the actual will of the people through a vote than a single person's choice.
Because they don't want a more liberal judge so they have been sticking the supreme court races to weird off schedule or off presidential cycle elections.
As far as I'm aware, the supreme court election has always been held in the April election in Wisconsin, with the idea being that it can help avoid the partisanness of the November election.
Also, in what has now been 102 supreme court elections (State constitution limits it to a single election each year for supreme court) the incumbent has lost only 7 times. Bradley was the incumbent since she was appointed by Walker last October.
No, it was Florida.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The current state of Wisconsin is not caused by the exact distribution of power between branches of government.
It's caused by voters voting for Walker. The mess is democracy working as intended: the voters wanted this, voted for it, and they are now getting it.
Electing judges, whose main function is to be independent of public opinion, is not the way to deal with voters wanting to ruin their State.
Neither is having those same judges be appointed by the governor they keep deciding to elect in their nihilistic fugue state.
There's no right answer here.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
To deal with voters, no. That's democracy, sadly.
At least not electing judges helps to ensure their independence from public opinion. That way, you don't have judges making ads bragging about how many people they condemn to death, in what were surely perfectly justified sentences after a fair trial.
Dane County Judge William Foust, take a bow. Shame the state's SC probably won't let his move to higher courts.
Prosser is a special brand of fuckmuppet.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/republican-wisconsin-senator-disputes-pay-to-play-allegation-regarding-lead/article_3fe9eedc-9d66-5719-b047-3d4a7bd46dbb.html
The ol' "We didn't get a bag of money handed directly to me" excuse.