Death throes are the worst throes. Theyre also scary. And oh my god, what if this isnt the death throes!?
They're getting there though. They're desperately trying to retain power by fucking people and sucking corporate dick. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.
I absolutely think we'll see a socialist movement get pretty secure foothold within our lifetimes, probably sooner than I'm thinking.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Death throes are the worst throes. Theyre also scary. And oh my god, what if this isnt the death throes!?
They're getting there though. They're desperately trying to retain power by fucking people and sucking corporate dick. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.
I absolutely think we'll see a socialist movement get pretty secure foothold within our lifetimes, probably sooner than I'm thinking.
Well, theyre long game is pretty solid since corporations cant die.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
Wisconsin released the names of more than 1 million people who signed a recall petition against Gov. Scott Walker, state officials said, despite safety concerns among petition signers.
"In the interest of full transparency, the board has always planned to release copies of recall petitions to anyone who requested them and to post them online," said Kevin Kennedy, director and general counsel.
Well fuck you too, Government Accountability Board. Seriously, words cannot describe how angry I am about this. I signed that petition, and now anyone who wants can see my name and address? Jesus, how is this even legal?
Wisconsin released the names of more than 1 million people who signed a recall petition against Gov. Scott Walker, state officials said, despite safety concerns among petition signers.
"In the interest of full transparency, the board has always planned to release copies of recall petitions to anyone who requested them and to post them online," said Kevin Kennedy, director and general counsel.
Well fuck you too, Government Accountability Board. Seriously, words cannot describe how angry I am about this. I signed that petition, and now anyone who wants can see my name and address? Jesus, how is this even legal?
I firmly believe that petitions such as this are a matter of public record.
There was a similar thing here in Washington where a bunch of anti-Gay Marriage groups wanted the petitions sealed and the judge ruled that they were a matter of public record and accessible via FOIA request. I think that was the right choice, and while the manner of this (revealing it online and without prompting, and only the Democrats that signed) is somewhat despicable I do believe it is okay for them to do so.
Wisconsin released the names of more than 1 million people who signed a recall petition against Gov. Scott Walker, state officials said, despite safety concerns among petition signers.
"In the interest of full transparency, the board has always planned to release copies of recall petitions to anyone who requested them and to post them online," said Kevin Kennedy, director and general counsel.
Well fuck you too, Government Accountability Board. Seriously, words cannot describe how angry I am about this. I signed that petition, and now anyone who wants can see my name and address? Jesus, how is this even legal?
I firmly believe that petitions such as this are a matter of public record.
There was a similar thing here in Washington where a bunch of anti-Gay Marriage groups wanted the petitions sealed and the judge ruled that they were a matter of public record and accessible via FOIA request. I think that was the right choice, and while the manner of this (revealing it online and without prompting, and only the Democrats that signed) is somewhat despicable I do believe it is okay for them to do so.
Be proud that you signed that thing.
Right, and if the names were simply available via a FOIA request, it wouldn't be a thing, it would just be the way things are supposed to work. Hell, if they regularly published all signatures publicly for all petitions, it wouldn't be an issue.
Because they've done something special for this petition, you have to wonder why. Are they just getting out ahead of a flood of FOIA requests in a bid to reduce costs to the review board, or are they trying to intimidate those who signed it? Obviously you can't say for sure, but I know what I would guess.
Old people don't like to give personal information, so I could see where this would be an issue if you've got a lot of old people. My dad gives people a hard time when they ask for his phone number, for instance.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Old people don't like to give personal information, so I could see where this would be an issue if you've got a lot of old people. My dad gives people a hard time when they ask for his phone number, for instance.
That's cause old people aren't as stupid as the young kids who'll give away all their private info for free.
Old people don't like to give personal information, so I could see where this would be an issue if you've got a lot of old people. My dad gives people a hard time when they ask for his phone number, for instance.
That's cause old people aren't as stupid as the young kids who'll give away all their private info for free.
Agreed. People are right to be angry about the manner in which this information was published, compared to how most documents subject to FOIA are handled. Just because some people don't care because they are already giving all their information away on Facebook doesn't make it ok. I still remember when it was considered to be an incredible lapse in judgement to tell people on the internet your name, or what town you lived in. . .
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Try and use this anger to further push yourselves to vote these fuckers out.
If they win, it will be a major blow to perceived democrat power all over, where GOP election turn out can even overwhelm a historically large petition.
If they lose, it will send a message that yes, even with the Citizens United ruling, overwhelming campaign donations to corrupt politicians cannot suppress the voter power of a democratic system. You can't buy an election.
Either way, the right proves a point.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Last week was Jon Erpenbach's birthday, while down at the pub with him and his buddies there was a lot of talk about who could run and raise the money needed to beat Walker. The discussion was not promising, but there are rumors that Jon himself might be thinking of running, and he'd have a better chance than Kathleen Falk, or just about anyone else besides Feingold.
Now you guys see why I'm so cynical. The Cons have the money, the power, the propaganda, and the lack of morals. They'll win this, and other elections one way or another.
Money has it's limits. Don't get me wrong its a powerful influence but I'd say it may be counteracted by the shear hate people have for Walker. Money only works when people let it work.
Man fuck this defeatist shit all up ins this thread! Somewhere around 20% of the state got out and voted for this asshole to be dragged out by his short hairs, I refuse to believe that this is gonna go all Kerry on us.
Have faith. You have months to find someone, and even the stupidest of conservatives have to see that madness lies ahead if he stays in power.
Given the number of signatures for this recall, I would be disappointed in Wisconsin voters if they didn't vote the douche out of office. Sure he has a shit ton of money but he was a big enough asshole to cause enough backlash to warrant a million signature recall. The dems just need to consolidate around one person, make use of social media and make it clear that they have one person that everyone should get behind if they wish to be rid of Walker.
Man fuck this defeatist shit all up ins this thread! Somewhere around 20% of the state got out and voted for this asshole to be dragged out by his short hairs, I refuse to believe that this is gonna go all Kerry on us.
Have faith. You have months to find someone, and even the stupidest of conservatives have to see that madness lies ahead if he stays in power.
That is also months for enthusiasm to fade. Without money, keeping people on message and enthusiatic enough to vote on the issue might not be so easy. Does anyone have statistics on the percentage of people who go to rallies and things like that who ultimately vote for the candidate?
Man fuck this defeatist shit all up ins this thread! Somewhere around 20% of the state got out and voted for this asshole to be dragged out by his short hairs, I refuse to believe that this is gonna go all Kerry on us.
Have faith. You have months to find someone, and even the stupidest of conservatives have to see that madness lies ahead if he stays in power.
That is also months for enthusiasm to fade. Without money, keeping people on message and enthusiatic enough to vote on the issue might not be so easy. Does anyone have statistics on the percentage of people who go to rallies and things like that who ultimately vote for the candidate?
Well, they kept up the enthuasim for a year already, since the first wave of re-elections till now.
I think they'll be okay.
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited February 2012
I don't want to hear one word about fading enthusiasm. We heard about fading enthusiasm all fucking year.
You know how we responded to that? A MILLION GODDAMN SIGNATURES. There's your fading enthusiasm.
I mean honestly, we've been getting the Little Red Hen treatment from out-of-staters since the word go. 'Well, Wisconsin's screwed now!' 'You voted him in, you deserve to be screwed for the whole term! THAT'LL learn ya!' 'Oh, he'll just pass something to cancel the recalls!' 'You'll never keep up the anger all year long!' 'Why don't you just give up on trying to get Walker out! It'll be too hard! Why don't you aim for someone more beatable?' 'That's way too many signatures!' 'You don't have a candidate!' 'Oh, Waukesha County will just steal it again!' 'It's really really expensive! You're going to get outspent and lose!'
Seriously? Enough. We've gotten this far. We're going to finish the job we've started, with or without your help.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
We wisconsinites know how to reserve enthusiasm. Through last summer we put it in a tupperware container and put it in the fridge, making sure it was ready when the recalls started. It didn't spoil, and we got the signatures we needed.
I have no doubt we could even run someone from Iowa, or even Minnesota (but not a fucking Chicagoan, fuck those guys) and still win. Have no fear, the chucklefucks will not win.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
I know I'm coming in late on this conversation... and I know that I'm going to look like such a troll here, but I really don't understand the hysteria around Walker. They guy saved some dosh and kept the state taxes down.
It seems everyone is losing their shit because he cut the balls off the unions, and I'm having a real hard time seeing a down side. Now it might be my experience with unions, but I never really found a need for them in the first place. When my ex was working as a bagger at a grocery store, all I saw them do it take money out of her paycheck. She still worked minimum wage below full-time with no benefits. If we asked to have the dues taken off the paycheck, she would of been fired(!). I don't know about you that that's nuclear-level retarded right there.
As for me, I've never been in a union and don't see what I'm missing, but I'm doing pretty well for myself without one. Every time I hear a business involved with one they are ginormous pains in the ass and throw the human capital all out of whack. City hall was able to take a newspaper ad out for someone to plow the parking lot for $10-$16 an hour as opposed to having the city do it for a higher price. (That price BTW is about what my old boss paid to plow his lot).
1) He refused a $800 million dollar grant to put in a light rail system from Chicago to Milwaukee and then Madison, which would later be expanded to Minneapolis. The reason he declined it is because Wisconsin would have to pay up to $5 million to maintain it, but probably less due to other grants from the feds. If you don't see how pants on head retarded this is during a recession (JOBS!), well, it is.
2) While that union was taking money from your ex, had she been fired for absolutely no reason it would have gotten her job back, possibly with back pay as well. Or had she been asked to do something she wasn't qualified to do (moving stock in the backroom and then getting injured doing it, something I saw happen at non-union grocery stores when I worked there in high school) the union could have gotten her medical leave with pay
3) Keeping taxes down is not the be all, end all the right likes to make it seem it is. We in Wisconsin like the services we have, and some communities would have liked to vote to raise their local taxes (property tax) to keep them after Walker slashed the budget (almost entirely in education, which is also pants on head retarded) but that was also made illegal by Walker.
4) HE DIDN'T CAMPAIGN ON DOING ANY OF THIS FUCKING SHIT. However, I will admit that this is also a problem with Barret (a man who is a literal hero and was beaten in the head with a rock for defending a women being attacked in the street while mayor of Milwaukee) running an ineffective campaign.
there's more, and I'm sure others can fill that in
Point the first: he didn't campaign on it.
Point the second: he didn't save any money with the union stripping bill.
Point the third: this was all about denying his opponents campaign money, not government.
Point the fourth: read history.
EDIT: Similar points, different order. Also more terse.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
yeah sorry about the terseness. Alcohol after a horrible hockey game (see college football thread for details) leads to anger, which leads to terseness on the internet, which leads to the troll-side.
I know I'm coming in late on this conversation... and I know that I'm going to look like such a troll here, but I really don't understand the hysteria around Walker. They guy saved some dosh and kept the state taxes down.
It seems everyone is losing their shit because he cut the balls off the unions, and I'm having a real hard time seeing a down side. Now it might be my experience with unions, but I never really found a need for them in the first place. When my ex was working as a bagger at a grocery store, all I saw them do it take money out of her paycheck. She still worked minimum wage below full-time with no benefits. If we asked to have the dues taken off the paycheck, she would of been fired(!). I don't know about you that that's nuclear-level retarded right there.
As for me, I've never been in a union and don't see what I'm missing, but I'm doing pretty well for myself without one. Every time I hear a business involved with one they are ginormous pains in the ass and throw the human capital all out of whack. City hall was able to take a newspaper ad out for someone to plow the parking lot for $10-$16 an hour as opposed to having the city do it for a higher price. (That price BTW is about what my old boss paid to plow his lot).
I donno, my two cents I guess.
He cut the education budget by 30%, including technical and community colleges when the state has a shortage of welders and other skills taught at such places
Furthermore when the state budget office found that receipts were higher than expected, rather than lower the amount of cuts, Walker invested the money in out of state banks in some farcical scheme to have them reinvest in Wisconsin (talk about inefficient bloated government: adding an unnecessary and dubious third party to the business of job creating). As a resident of the state you should really read up on what's going on before commenting that everyone else is getting hysterical.
The collective bargaining measures BY WALKER'S OWN DEFINITION (Walker and the republican assembly said it had nothing to do with the budget, which allowed them to pass it without having the Democratic senators present) had nothing to do with the budget. Process that for a while.
Unions are similar to insurance companies. You shouldn't get mad at the union not doing anything for you when there was nothing to be done. That said just because you didn't see the unions doing something in your benefit doesn't mean they didn't and that said Unions as an institution are more important then failings of a few shitty corrupt unions.
Also are you aware the Unions agreed to all the budgets cuts Walker wanted? He handed them a list of concessions and they agreed. Then he stripped them of their rights anyway.
Posts
My money is on him going on speaking tours and maybe getting a job with the RNC.
Baby boomers going out of business, everything must go
They're getting there though. They're desperately trying to retain power by fucking people and sucking corporate dick. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.
I absolutely think we'll see a socialist movement get pretty secure foothold within our lifetimes, probably sooner than I'm thinking.
Well, theyre long game is pretty solid since corporations cant die.
Well fuck you too, Government Accountability Board. Seriously, words cannot describe how angry I am about this. I signed that petition, and now anyone who wants can see my name and address? Jesus, how is this even legal?
I firmly believe that petitions such as this are a matter of public record.
There was a similar thing here in Washington where a bunch of anti-Gay Marriage groups wanted the petitions sealed and the judge ruled that they were a matter of public record and accessible via FOIA request. I think that was the right choice, and while the manner of this (revealing it online and without prompting, and only the Democrats that signed) is somewhat despicable I do believe it is okay for them to do so.
Be proud that you signed that thing.
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Right, and if the names were simply available via a FOIA request, it wouldn't be a thing, it would just be the way things are supposed to work. Hell, if they regularly published all signatures publicly for all petitions, it wouldn't be an issue.
Because they've done something special for this petition, you have to wonder why. Are they just getting out ahead of a flood of FOIA requests in a bid to reduce costs to the review board, or are they trying to intimidate those who signed it? Obviously you can't say for sure, but I know what I would guess.
That's cause old people aren't as stupid as the young kids who'll give away all their private info for free.
My dad gives the third degree to financial institutions when they need it to verify his identity.
Agreed. People are right to be angry about the manner in which this information was published, compared to how most documents subject to FOIA are handled. Just because some people don't care because they are already giving all their information away on Facebook doesn't make it ok. I still remember when it was considered to be an incredible lapse in judgement to tell people on the internet your name, or what town you lived in. . .
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That's how much Walker raised last year. No wonder Democrats are bowing out. The spending for this recall is going to be positively Romney-esque.
I wish the DNC would take this as seriously as the RNC is
Thanks Justice Kennedy!
If they win, it will be a major blow to perceived democrat power all over, where GOP election turn out can even overwhelm a historically large petition.
If they lose, it will send a message that yes, even with the Citizens United ruling, overwhelming campaign donations to corrupt politicians cannot suppress the voter power of a democratic system. You can't buy an election.
Either way, the right proves a point.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
There's also racism.
Have faith. You have months to find someone, and even the stupidest of conservatives have to see that madness lies ahead if he stays in power.
"Did all the money spent on advertising make you more or less likely to vote for Walker?"
But not worded that way, because that seems a little loaded.
This. I want this on a bumper sticker and I wanted it yesterday.
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
That is also months for enthusiasm to fade. Without money, keeping people on message and enthusiatic enough to vote on the issue might not be so easy. Does anyone have statistics on the percentage of people who go to rallies and things like that who ultimately vote for the candidate?
Well, they kept up the enthuasim for a year already, since the first wave of re-elections till now.
I think they'll be okay.
You know how we responded to that? A MILLION GODDAMN SIGNATURES. There's your fading enthusiasm.
I mean honestly, we've been getting the Little Red Hen treatment from out-of-staters since the word go. 'Well, Wisconsin's screwed now!' 'You voted him in, you deserve to be screwed for the whole term! THAT'LL learn ya!' 'Oh, he'll just pass something to cancel the recalls!' 'You'll never keep up the anger all year long!' 'Why don't you just give up on trying to get Walker out! It'll be too hard! Why don't you aim for someone more beatable?' 'That's way too many signatures!' 'You don't have a candidate!' 'Oh, Waukesha County will just steal it again!' 'It's really really expensive! You're going to get outspent and lose!'
Seriously? Enough. We've gotten this far. We're going to finish the job we've started, with or without your help.
I have no doubt we could even run someone from Iowa, or even Minnesota (but not a fucking Chicagoan, fuck those guys) and still win. Have no fear, the chucklefucks will not win.
It seems everyone is losing their shit because he cut the balls off the unions, and I'm having a real hard time seeing a down side. Now it might be my experience with unions, but I never really found a need for them in the first place. When my ex was working as a bagger at a grocery store, all I saw them do it take money out of her paycheck. She still worked minimum wage below full-time with no benefits. If we asked to have the dues taken off the paycheck, she would of been fired(!). I don't know about you that that's nuclear-level retarded right there.
As for me, I've never been in a union and don't see what I'm missing, but I'm doing pretty well for myself without one. Every time I hear a business involved with one they are ginormous pains in the ass and throw the human capital all out of whack. City hall was able to take a newspaper ad out for someone to plow the parking lot for $10-$16 an hour as opposed to having the city do it for a higher price. (That price BTW is about what my old boss paid to plow his lot).
I donno, my two cents I guess.
2) While that union was taking money from your ex, had she been fired for absolutely no reason it would have gotten her job back, possibly with back pay as well. Or had she been asked to do something she wasn't qualified to do (moving stock in the backroom and then getting injured doing it, something I saw happen at non-union grocery stores when I worked there in high school) the union could have gotten her medical leave with pay
3) Keeping taxes down is not the be all, end all the right likes to make it seem it is. We in Wisconsin like the services we have, and some communities would have liked to vote to raise their local taxes (property tax) to keep them after Walker slashed the budget (almost entirely in education, which is also pants on head retarded) but that was also made illegal by Walker.
4) HE DIDN'T CAMPAIGN ON DOING ANY OF THIS FUCKING SHIT. However, I will admit that this is also a problem with Barret (a man who is a literal hero and was beaten in the head with a rock for defending a women being attacked in the street while mayor of Milwaukee) running an ineffective campaign.
there's more, and I'm sure others can fill that in
Point the second: he didn't save any money with the union stripping bill.
Point the third: this was all about denying his opponents campaign money, not government.
Point the fourth: read history.
EDIT: Similar points, different order. Also more terse.
He cut the education budget by 30%, including technical and community colleges when the state has a shortage of welders and other skills taught at such places
Furthermore when the state budget office found that receipts were higher than expected, rather than lower the amount of cuts, Walker invested the money in out of state banks in some farcical scheme to have them reinvest in Wisconsin (talk about inefficient bloated government: adding an unnecessary and dubious third party to the business of job creating). As a resident of the state you should really read up on what's going on before commenting that everyone else is getting hysterical.
The collective bargaining measures BY WALKER'S OWN DEFINITION (Walker and the republican assembly said it had nothing to do with the budget, which allowed them to pass it without having the Democratic senators present) had nothing to do with the budget. Process that for a while.
Also are you aware the Unions agreed to all the budgets cuts Walker wanted? He handed them a list of concessions and they agreed. Then he stripped them of their rights anyway.