Regarding Yahtzee Croshaw's Attendance at PAX Prime

Gate28

The Escapist seems to imply that he will be blocked behind a paywall and in order to see or talk to him, you will have to pay the Escapist. This seems to be against the spirit of PAX, at least to me. Can anyone confirm this?

Maetrix

Found this on the Escapist here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111921-Meet-Yahtzee-at-PAX-Get-Stuff

This was posted summing up what it's about:

UPDATE: There's been some confusion about what exactly we're trying to achieve. As any of you that have seen us at PAX know, we typically only send a small contingent of Escapist staff. We're hoping to do something bigger and better for PAX Prime - a grand meet-up that includes food, beverages, and Yahtzee. This is not a charity drive. We are pre-selling merch and swag and if we hit a minimum threshold we'll make a big presence at PAX. If we don't, the orders will get cancelled, we'll have our usual spartan presence at PAX.

Maetrix

Personally, I'm not THAT big of a Yahtzee fan. I like his work, but I rather put my coin towards helping out the guys from LLR or Extra Credit then him. It will be interesting to see how the 'net reacts to this drive.

tokyodove

Fuel $100 or more:
Any contribution of $100 receives: Admission to The Escapist Fan Meet-up with Yahtzee

it seems that if they reach the cap he'll be attending the escapist panel, but will only be meeting up with people who've donated >$100
seems like a crappy money grabbing scheme.

tsrblke

tokyodove wrote:

Fuel $100 or more:
Any contribution of $100 receives: Admission to The Escapist Fan Meet-up with Yahtzee

it seems that if they reach the cap he'll be attending the escapist panel, but will only be meeting up with people who've donated >$100
seems like a crappy money grabbing scheme.

I suppose you can sell anything you want, in that regards at least they're being honest about what their selling. But yes, it seems stupid. Either a) "The Escapist" is a money pit and can't afford to send it's people out to PAX (which should really be taken out of it's advertising budget) or b) They just don't feel like it so they'll bilk money out of people (i.e. fanbois) to cut costs. But yeah, not my bag, but also not entirely against the spirit of PAX I suppose (provided said fan meetup is offsite.)

chaosisorder

tokyodove wrote:

Fuel $100 or more:
Any contribution of $100 receives: Admission to The Escapist Fan Meet-up with Yahtzee

it seems that if they reach the cap he'll be attending the escapist panel, but will only be meeting up with people who've donated >$100
seems like a crappy money grabbing scheme.

See, I read their posts as this was to fund an outside, large scale meet up. Kind of like the big industry event parties. I dunno what it means for their panel.

mentok1982

No sir, I don't like it.

tr0tsky

chaosisorder wrote:

See, I read their posts as this was to fund an outside, large scale meet up. Kind of like the big industry event parties. I dunno what it means for their panel.

Well, there's no way they can limit their panel to people who paid them, that's just not how PAX panels work. So the "meetup" has to be for an outside event. Whether or not Yahtzee will be at a Panel they have as well, who knows. The whole thing just seems shady. 20k goal to get Yahtzee to come to PAX?

Kathleen_LRR

Hey - I don't work for the Escapist (independent contractor, heyo) - but yes, the hypothetical meetup is going to be "a big swanky offsite thing".

As an FYI, LoadingReadyRun will be there and you can hang out with us, get us to sign stuff (if you wanted to) and touch our hands with your hands for free.

Liger

tr0tsky wrote:

20k goal to get Yahtzee to come to PAX?

I'm not saying that the number isn't outrageous, but keep in mind it is FREAKING EXPENSIVE to come this far around the world, especially around Labor Day. Plane tix from Oz flying in the toilets can be upwards of $6-7k round trip - especially when booked last minute. Then there's private hotel, food, and transportation. Likely Yahtzee is demanding all expenses paid plus compensation for time and work before he agrees to come. That could easily total to $20k.

That being said, there is so much stuff one can do for the price of a 3-day pass at PAX. I for one won't pay extra to maybe have the chance to meet him for 30 seconds at a $100 party when I could easily walk a block and step into another party for free and hang out with 300 other awesome people and get $100 worth of booze.

TOGSolid

Pay to see a washed up comic who's made it abundantly clear he's terrible at video games and likes to blame the game for his suckiness? Yeah, no thanks.

chupamiubre

So i pay money to get into a party? At pax? It sounds like they have not got a god damned idea what pax is and how it operates.

Singollo

I know a few party's seem to be charging admission and well this one doesn't seem to have a good reason. Least Sarcastic gamers has a good reason (money goes to charity) not to get someone to show up. Though if that is what these people think they should do to guarantee attendance to there party more power to them. Though I wont be surprised if they don't meet there goal as 100 is allot of money. I personally will find something else to do

tsrblke

I got no problem with a basic charge for a party. Especially if your not a large corperation writing it out of ad budget. Basic cover charge or if your providing food something close to estimated retail value.
This...this reminds me of a poltical rally.

Project TURO

Yeah I saw that and said no thanks. I would love to meet him, but that's way too much. I would much rather go to the Extra Life event for 36 bucks and have a good time there.

leilah

My view is that it's sodding expensive to get someone here from Australia, and if they want to throw a bash that's outside their budget then selling signed ZP posters and various swag things is a perfectly reasonable way to do it. I'm not going to be on the paying-extra list myself, but I think PAX would be just that little bit more awesome with Yahtzee there.

Leevity

Yeah, no thanks.

soonerjudd

How do you find out about these parties? I went to PAX last year and didn't hear anything.

tsrblke

leilah wrote:

My view is that it's sodding expensive to get someone here from Australia, and if they want to throw a bash that's outside their budget then selling signed ZP posters and various swag things is a perfectly reasonable way to do it. I'm not going to be on the paying-extra list myself, but I think PAX would be just that little bit more awesome with Yahtzee there.

Oh I was OK with the swag selling, it was when you got to get into the "Invite to our Party/Meet Yahtzee/Buy a review for your game" that I got to be a bit put off.

Rdr

Liger wrote:

tr0tsky wrote:

20k goal to get Yahtzee to come to PAX?

I'm not saying that the number isn't outrageous, but keep in mind it is FREAKING EXPENSIVE to come this far around the world, especially around Labor Day. Plane tix from Oz flying in the toilets can be upwards of $6-7k round trip - especially when booked last minute. Then there's private hotel, food, and transportation. Likely Yahtzee is demanding all expenses paid plus compensation for time and work before he agrees to come. That could easily total to $20k.

That being said, there is so much stuff one can do for the price of a 3-day pass at PAX. I for one won't pay extra to maybe have the chance to meet him for 30 seconds at a $100 party when I could easily walk a block and step into another party for free and hang out with 300 other awesome people and get $100 worth of booze.

My thoughts exactly, Liger.

soonerjudd wrote:

How do you find out about these parties? I went to PAX last year and didn't hear anything.

There are a ton of community driven parties but usually they're only posted on that community's website. Find websites/developers you're interested in and follow their main websites/podcasts/fb/twitters/etc and you should find out about special parties and meetups.

Silverspud

I'm a huge fan of ZP, but my wallet sure isn't.

FireWater

Unfortunately, I cannot go to Prime, but even if this were happening at east 2012, I am certainly not going to participate in this. Yahtzee should go because he wants to be there, and engage his fanbase. I love the escapist, but I'm not sure why they are engaging in this type of behavior, it really seems to go against their principles. (or what I thought were their principles). Its really foolish and arrogant to believe that Yahtzee is such a super star that he needs $20,000 to get him out there. I hope they fail miserably at raising the money.

Silvertwinn

I find it ironic that Yahtzee needs 20k to get to PAX (or that's what it's made to seem like) and hasn't met that goal while Extra Credits (another popular show on The Escapist) started a fundraiser of 15k to pay for their artist's shoulder surgery that she needed (and thus save the show) and they've raised near 100k. (Extra Credits is going to put the overflow of money towards better things: http://www.rockethub.com/projects/2165-extra-credits/posts/740)

I agree with FireWater. But I get the impression that Yahtzee doesn't like his fans all that much. Like, he never answers fan mail (maybe 'cause there's too much), but I think I remember reading it somewhere, too... Maybe that's just me, though. I don't think they'll make it in 13 days... $20,000 seems like such a large amount of money, even for a round trip to and from Australia (with room and board).

tokyodove

im travelling from australia and so far including flights and hotels it's cost me just under $5000 (im going to LA/San Fran after pax as well)

but they did say the money isnt just to bring him to pax, its supposed to also help fund their escapist fan meet up party

Steel Fire

Here's another thought: If they don't already have a venue reserved for this meet-up thing are they really going to find someplace decent three weeks out from PAX? I think not, everyone else has been planning their community and industry events for months already. If they do have some place already reserved and they back out at the last minute then they've just burned a bridge for future Prime events. I can understand as a small organization they might need a helping hand to pull of something bigger but they've waited too long and used bad marketing with their reward system.

delphinus

They've put DLC into my PAX now? WTF is this?

FireWater

Silvertwinn wrote:

I find it ironic that Yahtzee needs 20k to get to PAX (or that's what it's made to seem like) and hasn't met that goal while Extra Credits (another popular show on The Escapist) started a fundraiser of 15k to pay for their artist's shoulder surgery that she needed (and thus save the show) and they've raised near 100k. (Extra Credits is going to put the overflow of money towards better things: http://www.rockethub.com/projects/2165-extra-credits/posts/740)

I agree with FireWater. But I get the impression that Yahtzee doesn't like his fans all that much. Like, he never answers fan mail (maybe 'cause there's too much), but I think I remember reading it somewhere, too... Maybe that's just me, though. I don't think they'll make it in 13 days... $20,000 seems like such a large amount of money, even for a round trip to and from Australia (with room and board).

I don't have a problem with the extra credits raising cash for Allison, thats a pretty worthy cause. Also they are using left over funds to fund an indie game, which is pretty cool.

I mean if Yahtzee doesn't like his fans, why is paying him a bunch of money going to change that. All of the other bigger/better celebs at PAX simply charge for pictures (which is fine) when they do autographs. They appreciate their fans, and appreciate the lives they can live because of their fans. Yahtzee just mumbles fast into a microphone, and is sometimes funny.

chupamiubre

FireWater wrote:

Silvertwinn wrote:

I find it ironic that Yahtzee needs 20k to get to PAX (or that's what it's made to seem like) and hasn't met that goal while Extra Credits (another popular show on The Escapist) started a fundraiser of 15k to pay for their artist's shoulder surgery that she needed (and thus save the show) and they've raised near 100k. (Extra Credits is going to put the overflow of money towards better things: http://www.rockethub.com/projects/2165-extra-credits/posts/740)

I agree with FireWater. But I get the impression that Yahtzee doesn't like his fans all that much. Like, he never answers fan mail (maybe 'cause there's too much), but I think I remember reading it somewhere, too... Maybe that's just me, though. I don't think they'll make it in 13 days... $20,000 seems like such a large amount of money, even for a round trip to and from Australia (with room and board).

I don't have a problem with the extra credits raising cash for Allison, thats a pretty worthy cause. Also they are using left over funds to fund an indie game, which is pretty cool.

I mean if Yahtzee doesn't like his fans, why is paying him a bunch of money going to change that. All of the other bigger/better celebs at PAX simply charge for pictures (which is fine) when they do autographs. They appreciate their fans, and appreciate the lives they can live because of their fans. Yahtzee just mumbles fast into a microphone, and is sometimes funny.

Excuse me please tell me what celebrities have ever charged money for pictures.

Losar

^ At PAX, you mean. Celebrities charge for pictures all the time at other conventions.

But you're right, I don't recall them ever charging for pictures at PAX.

TOGSolid

All of the other bigger/better celebs at PAX simply charge for pictures (which is fine) when they do autographs

I have never been charged for a picture at PAX nor have I ever been charged for an autograph. If someone did this, I'm pretty sure they'd never get invited back.

FireWater

Than I am incorrect, and I made a large assumption.

However, that actually helps me with my point, if the celebs don't even charge, why would anyone who goes to pax want to pay for zero. Punc?

Alatheia

I *think* the charging for pictures is when there is a stack of pre-printed pictures, not for "OMG can you take a picture with me?!" things

redhalo

Although this has not been an issue at PAX, there are in fact several sub-culture conventions where the purchase of a pictures, preprinted or not, is the bulk of the income for it's celebs. Went to a local cult movie con and it was unheard of for anyone to not require payment.

EvilBadman

I'm just going to take the money I would spend on this, and give it to Child's Play.

Gate28

FireWater wrote:

Than I am incorrect, and I made a large assumption.

However, that actually helps me with my point, if the celebs don't even charge, why would anyone who goes to pax want to pay for zero. Punc?

I remember meeting Lou Ferigno once and a convention and being shicked when he wanted 40 bucks to sign my Hulk comic. I'd never pay for an autograph from anyone!

Mattaui

Gate28 wrote:

FireWater wrote:

Than I am incorrect, and I made a large assumption.

However, that actually helps me with my point, if the celebs don't even charge, why would anyone who goes to pax want to pay for zero. Punc?

I remember meeting Lou Ferigno once and a convention and being shicked when he wanted 40 bucks to sign my Hulk comic. I'd never pay for an autograph from anyone!

Well, I've been to a lot of cons and paying for autographed pictures or to take pictures with the guests is pretty standard practice, though it's usually more mainstream celebrities that can command such a price. I agree, it's never really been worth it to me to stand in line and then pay to shake someone's hand and get a signed photograph that a thousand other people are also going to get that day. The only autographs I've got are artists (who I did pay, but for commissions) and RPG designers (Gygax and Rein-Hagen, just ran into them at cons years ago). I did see Lou at a couple of cons, and he was usually sitting off at a table in the exhibit hall looking sullen because he wasn't getting a lot of autograph sales. The last set of autographs I got was from Phil and Kaja Foglio (Girl Genius, Phil & Dixie, Xxenophile), and while I didn't have to buy anything from them I did, just because they're some really awesome people!

The Escapist seems to have gone about this the wrong way, at least given the public perception of it.

Nanaki

A few years ago, I attended a small convention near Philly that was in it's first year running. Being so new, it had an extremely small turnout and was almost eerily empty. As I wandered around, looking for things to keep me entertained, I came across a table all alone in a large empty area of the expo hall. Sitting at this table sat one man, looking quite lonely and bored. Being lonely and bored myself, I wandered up to him to see what he might be selling and the only thing I found was a stack of papers. "Do you want my autograph?" he asked me. Not wanting to upset the man, I took it and then promptly walked away, thinking the whole situation to be quite strange. As I was walking away I glanced at this sheet of paper and noticed he had scribbled 'Yahtzee' on it.

Later at the con I attented an Escapist Q&A and found out that this lonely lonely man was indeed THE 'Yahtzee'. During one of his rants, he got to talking about the gaming selection they had at the con. There was actually a DS section in a corner of the con labeled "girl games". There you could play all of the various 'Imagine' games and 'Cooking Mama' type games. While he was ranting and raving about the absurdity of having a section like that at a con and the ridiculousness that was 'Imagine' games in general, he looked over at me (one of, if not the only girl in the small room) and I gave him a huge nod of approval.


I guess what the point to my whole story is, Yahtzee has been to cons over here before and I don't remember having to pay any extra kind of fee to see him, or for his autograph. Maybe that con left a bad impression on him, and he feels like it wont be worth it to make the trek out to PAX. Maybe the costs of traveling here put a small hole in his pocket and he honestly can't afford to do it again. In any case, I would love to see him again, but I can't really see it happening.

Mystral721

Nanaki wrote:

A few years ago, I attended a small convention near Philly that was in it's first year running. Being so new, it had an extremely small turnout and was almost eerily empty. As I wandered around, looking for things to keep me entertained, I came across a table all alone in a large empty area of the expo hall. Sitting at this table sat one man, looking quite lonely and bored. Being lonely and bored myself, I wandered up to him to see what he might be selling and the only thing I found was a stack of papers. "Do you want my autograph?" he asked me. Not wanting to upset the man, I took it and then promptly walked away, thinking the whole situation to be quite strange. As I was walking away I glanced at this sheet of paper and noticed he had scribbled 'Yahtzee' on it.

Later at the con I attented an Escapist Q&A and found out that this lonely lonely man was indeed THE 'Yahtzee'. During one of his rants, he got to talking about the gaming selection they had at the con. There was actually a DS section in a corner of the con labeled "girl games". There you could play all of the various 'Imagine' games and 'Cooking Mama' type games. While he was ranting and raving about the absurdity of having a section like that at a con and the ridiculousness that was 'Imagine' games in general, he looked over at me (one of, if not the only girl in the small room) and I gave him a huge nod of approval.


I guess what the point to my whole story is, Yahtzee has been to cons over here before and I don't remember having to pay any extra kind of fee to see him, or for his autograph. Maybe that con left a bad impression on him, and he feels like it wont be worth it to make the trek out to PAX. Maybe the costs of traveling here put a small hole in his pocket and he honestly can't afford to do it again. In any case, I would love to see him again, but I can't really see it happening.

That's interesting, I was wondering if he ever made it to the States to do cons. That one sounds like it was an all-around bad experience for him.

I remember thinking a few years back that Yahtzee would really enjoy PAX, but as a fan not as a paid performer. If he's as dismissive of his fans as I've read, won't he hate it even more to dance like a monkey for them because they paid him to? Doesn't seem in the PAX spirit, even at an off-site party. I like his reviews but not enough to pay.

TrainwreckX

If I can get Joss Whedon's autograph and a handshake at San Diego Comic Con for free, then Yahtzee can fuck off if he charges money. He's not a celebrity. He's just famous. There's a difference.

chaosisorder

Quite the lynch mob here.

So far, Escapist, not Yahtzee, have come forward saying that they want to bring him during PAX, with a special, large scale fan meetup for all of the Escapist. And now, the RocketHub site appears to have been yanked, so perhaps they decided it was a bad idea after all. But if fans wanted to chipin/pay for a party or merch, great. And if they didn't, fine. And if there's a debate over that being within the spirit of PAX, so be it.

But this thread has turned into a game of telephone, with some poor reading comprehension skills. Be careful of spreading misinformation with only a small amount of information.

nemokitty

As someone who goes to Yahtzee's trivia held at Manabar, I'm going to be very interested in the feedback from those attendees contributing ANY money. I'm quietly laughing as I type this.