PA comic: Friday Sept. 2, 2011

Bogey

Self-Improvement

Friday, September 2 2011 - 12:00 AM

We have more or less the same complaint as everyone else regarding Deus Ex: Human Revolution, it’s just that we have this complaint a full week later on account of the PAX chronovortax.

In no uncertain terms, this is exactly the kind of game we want, something like ninety percent of the time. That’s better than most, I would say. But the points at which it diverges feel incredibly antithetical. We arrived at the point we discussed in panel one only to learn that there was an entirely other game included with our purchase, a mid-range shooter, and we had to learn and play this game in order to resume playing the other one we liked so much. And we did so! But the incongruities were amplified here because the game reinforces choice so well elsewhere.

The one thing I would say, could say rather, without piercing the umbral curtain of the Spoilitheon, is that the Typhoon Explosive System solves problems. Especially if your problems are sheathed in weak, shreddable flesh.

It happens every year; I emerge from the show to realize that we’re ass-deep in the Holiday season, and the games we have so frequently fantasized about are riding toward us with all haste, their dust on the horizon.

I was shocked to learn that Gears Of War 3, penned by our good friend Karen Traviss, hits on the 20th. Dedicated servers solved damn near every problem I had with the multiplayer, which is good and bad I suppose. It’s good because it has the power to banish the Magical Teleporting Chainsaw. It’s bad because there’s a lot of shit en route, and I may not have the strength of mind or body to tug out its barbed stinger.

Disgaea? Check. Gunstringer, which is way better than it should be? Also. Resistance 3? Imminent. Dead Island? Present. That’s all in the next two weeks, give or take, and it’s not even comprehensive. In my mind, there is a robot waving its arms, flashing, and warning me of danger.

(CW)TB out.

drink away a few months

bwanie

Oh no my privacy!

Munkus Beaver

Deus Ex definitely falls into the "So much freedom that it's a detriment" category of games. That's not to say it's bad or that all of the freedom is bad, but sometimes it just gives too much choice.

Also: fuck inventory tetris

Mojo_Jojo

Yeah, it kind of shows that a different team was responsible for the bosses.

Munkus Beaver wrote:

Also: fuck inventory tetris

The inventory auto-sorts. You never need to move an item.

Munkus Beaver

Fuck limited inventory systems.

"Sweet, I hacked this level twenty system and got an awesome gun I probably shouldn't have!"

"...now I have to throw away another gun mother fuck"

morac199

I dig the nerdy/scientist look but, where are jensens' metal hands?
Dude, my arms have been augmented.

Kuribo's Shoe

PUNCH THROUGH WALLS.

Rhesus Positive

I love the taped together shades.

jippee

how come a digital Lincoln can't mend these differences?

RMS Oceanic

I look at Gabe's Jensen, and I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE7mi-gdIYw

Dhalphir

This is a huge failing of Deus Ex Human Revolution compared to the original. Bosses that can only be defeated through combat are a huge let-down next to the bosses of the original, which could be, without exception, either avoided or defeated through non-combat means.

Echo

Dhalphir wrote:

This is a huge failing of Deus Ex Human Revolution compared to the original. Bosses that can only be defeated through combat are a huge let-down next to the bosses of the original, which could be, without exception, either avoided or defeated through non-combat means.

Yeah, the boss fights felt like a completely different game.

And then I learned that they were designed by an entirely different company. Grip Entertainment did them.

Also, this is the second-best image on the internet.

Jeedan

I hated this as well, but I noticed playing with a non-stealthy character and realised that its not the fact that you picked the wrong build that screws you over, because the bosses are equally horrible regardless of your build.

In fact you're probably better off cloaking behind him and dropping mines everywhere than you are imagining that your damage resistance and aim bonus augs are going to make a damn bit of difference.

Eddy

Echo wrote: »

And then I learned that they were designed by an entirely different company.

say wut

Peter Ebel

Birthday comic.

Oolong

I absolutely hated this game after about half an hour, ragequit and haven't bothered to play it again. This comic makes me feel like I've made the right decision.

I'm not sure if that bothers me or not.

Alegis

Jeedan wrote: »

I hated this as well, but I noticed playing with a non-stealthy character and realised that its not the fact that you picked the wrong build that screws you over, because the bosses are equally horrible regardless of your build.

In fact you're probably better off cloaking behind him and dropping mines everywhere than you are imagining that your damage resistance and aim bonus augs are going to make a damn bit of difference.

typhoon!

rtkwe

There's only one boss who you really have to fight straight up: the third boss Namir. The first and second both have tricks. Hit the spoiler if you want to see them.

For the first boss you can just throw the explosive barrels and the poison gas canisters at him, on my play he actually died while standing in one of those poison clouds while I was looking for another barrel to throw. The second boss you shoot the large power generators on the outer walls electrifying the floor then unload into her, just make sure you have the EMP shielding from the dermal armor tree.

SwashbucklerXX

I just put on godmode for the boss fights, then removed it after I won and got back to enjoying the game. I'm a dirty dirty cheater and I don't care.

Lorek

rtkwe wrote:

There's only one boss who you really have to fight straight up: the third boss Namir. The first and second both have tricks. Hit the spoiler if you want to see them. (No story spoilers inside just boss fight tips)

For the first boss you can just throw the explosive barrels and the poison gas canisters at him, on my play he actually died while standing in one of those poison clouds while I was looking for another barrel to throw. The second boss you shoot the large power generators on the outer walls electrifying the floor then unload into her, just make sure you have the EMP shielding from the dermal armor tree.

Third Boss trick:

There's a laser gun in one of the cabinets; the laser can shoot through glass, which is what 90% of the cover in this area is made of. Just put the room between you and him and fire at him with the laser.

kingworks

"As the number of choices increases, the likelihood of any of those choices getting picked decreases."

It's a named law. I just don't remember which/whose.

Also, Oolong (awesome name), send me your copy. I'll play it for you.

I'll play it so hard.

Kainnech

This is so on point for my playthru of this game.

Enc

kingworks wrote:

"As the number of choices increases, the likelihood of any of those choices getting picked decreases."

It's a named law. I just don't remember which/whose.

Also, Oolong (awesome name), send me your copy. I'll play it for you.

I'll play it so hard.

Illusion of Choice?

Oddfish

My Nerd-spec Adam is a stealth-hacker champion.

But he can also punchify some fucking walls when necessary.

I may not be the sneakiest of the sneaky, but if you spot me you'd better act like you didn't... because when the little radar turns yellow and the auto-shades come off that's when the dual-arm-blade ass-rape party begins, my little patrolling guard friend.


p.s. Why is it quieter to do some acrobatic jujitsu arm-bar double face kick than slip a blade into someone's sternum? This game sure can be silly.

The Good Doctor Tran

Deus Ex: Whore Punching Revolution is a fantastic game. Deus Ex: Stupid Gun Arm Man is less so. Still the best game I've played this year.

mekman 2

No real choices huh? Well, what did you really expect from a game by both Square-Enix and Eidos. It's just a Granola-Green-Globalist conspiracy! /dons aluminum cap

Aldo

Peter Ebel wrote:

Birthday comic.

Happy birthday!

rtkwe

Lorek wrote:

rtkwe wrote:

There's only one boss who you really have to fight straight up: the third boss Namir. The first and second both have tricks. Hit the spoiler if you want to see them. (No story spoilers inside just boss fight tips)

For the first boss you can just throw the explosive barrels and the poison gas canisters at him, on my play he actually died while standing in one of those poison clouds while I was looking for another barrel to throw. The second boss you shoot the large power generators on the outer walls electrifying the floor then unload into her, just make sure you have the EMP shielding from the dermal armor tree.

Third Boss trick:

There's a laser gun in one of the cabinets; the laser can shoot through glass, which is what 90% of the cover in this area is made of. Just put the room between you and him and fire at him with the laser.

Ah yes I never used that one, I got the upgrade on my first playthough like a tosser, second (pacifist) playthough I had an inv full of emp and gas grenades to stun him so I never needed the LasRifle.

Henroid

Echo wrote:

Also, this is the second-best image on the internet.

Second-best? That seems like a pretty strong case for being the best best.

As for the comic I love the tape around his classes. Especially since there is no actual bridge between the lenses for his shades.

Calenth

Another trick on the third boss:

If you catch him while he's going over a wall, you can punch him out with a takedown

.

Yeah, the boss fights really do end up feeling tacked-on, unfortunately. They wouldn't be so bad except that the rest of the game is SO AMAZINGLY GOOD that they really suffer by contrast. Still, there are a few tricks that make each of them relatively easy, and there's a creative solution for each one, it's just that they feel so artificial by comparison with the rest of the game (Cutscene! Arena!) that they end up kinda sucking.

The single best change they could've made would be to remove the arena lockdown. If you could drag them back through the prior levels, then hacking solutions (drag them onto turrets) would've been viable, for example.

kingworks

Enc wrote:

kingworks wrote:

"As the number of choices increases, the likelihood of any of those choices getting picked decreases."

It's a named law. I just don't remember which/whose.

Also, Oolong (awesome name), send me your copy. I'll play it for you.

I'll play it so hard.

Illusion of Choice?

I think it's an extrapolation of Hick's Law. The context would have been related to software/interface design.

Henroid

The issues I'm hearing about regarding the boss battles is a problem that's been present in choice oriented games for like the last decade, nearly. Started with Knights of the Old Republic (or well, I guess before, but it's the first game I played where I perceived this problem). Also remember it being discussed by Chris Remo on a podcast a long time ago, with regard to Mass Effect.

Basically, the games are still built to be combat oriented at critical points. Any non-combat skills can't be applied to give you advantages or bypass combat. There are perks to having them, but you can't complete the game based on having them, and it really detracts from the whole idea of open choice in skills.

Edit - I think the example of doing it right is the original Fallout. I've heard you can beat the game without relying on combat (with regard to the ending segments), right?

miri

Problems with bosses?... Surely, I can't be the only one who

zapped the poor creatures with a Stun Gun until they dropped dead?

Sure, it is... kind of a dirty trick, but after the first one ate three rockets straight to his face and kept firing at me, not to mention always knowing where I am and apparently having an unlimited supply of grenades? No, thanks, I'll pass a glorious opportunity to reload a dozen times just to best a very poorly thought boss at marksmanship.
Besides, defeating them with my brain (especially by finding a weakness) is all "thinker Jensen" is about, isn't it? So, Gabe, if you had not gone too far from that point already you may consider reloading and laughing in the face of that stupid grunt.

see317

Henroid wrote:

Echo wrote:

Also, this is the second-best image on the internet.

Second-best? That seems like a pretty strong case for being the best best.

As for the comic I love the tape around his classes. Especially since there is no actual bridge between the lenses for his shades.

It has to compete with a pig that has pooped on it's own nutsack.
There are some things that Deal With It shades just can't do.

Jacques L'Homme

Sonofabitch! that's his friggin' mail, man!

Henroid

Can I be the bitch who points out Jensen was drawn with a human hand? :rotate:

Spackler

Jeedan wrote:

I hated this as well, but I noticed playing with a non-stealthy character and realised that its not the fact that you picked the wrong build that screws you over, because the bosses are equally horrible regardless of your build.

In fact you're probably better off cloaking behind him and dropping mines everywhere than you are imagining that your damage resistance and aim bonus augs are going to make a damn bit of difference.

Typhoon. 3 points to make all boss fights near trivial. I had one point in wall-punching, two points in typhoon, and everything else in hacking when I got there and the typhoon just made it silly (still had to try a half dozen times of course, mostly because I was being dumb or didn't know about/didn't avoid his grab).

Also, isn't that technically a spoiler in the second panel?

I mean, I'm sure everyone expected it, but you don't get confirmation of the raid being an abduction until much later.

Calenth

Henroid wrote:

The issues I'm hearing about regarding the boss battles is a problem that's been present in choice oriented games for like the last decade, nearly. Started with Knights of the Old Republic (or well, I guess before, but it's the first game I played where I perceived this problem). Also remember it being discussed by Chris Remo on a podcast a long time ago, with regard to Mass Effect.

Well, the original Deus Ex didn't, but only because the "bosses" were built on the same mechanic you were, without added health, and there wasn't a full "Arena"-style lockdown with them, so there were about a zillion ways to take them out or sneak past them. My favorite was dropping a LAM mine on Anna Navarre in Lebedev's 747. Problem solved! But then, I guess you lose the whole "Boss Fight" aesthetic, which I guess is a problem.

XenoCrash

Spackler wrote:

Typhoon. 3 points to make all boss fights near trivial.

This is the ONE TRUE WAY to fight the bosses. They still suck, but at least using the typhoon means they only take 30 seconds.

darkmayo

I had the same problem, took a ton of hacking upgrades and my weapon loadout was a tranq sniper rifle and modded pistol, and luckily a few emp grenades. Was able to finally take him down after about 10 attempts, lots of running around for cover and a lot of bullets to the head.

agoaj

morac199 wrote:

I dig the nerdy/scientist look but, where are jensens' metal hands?
Dude, my arms have been augmented.

Henroid wrote:

Can I be the bitch who points out Jensen was drawn with a human hand? :rotate:

Nope