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World War Hulk Thread: Don't Be Fucking Ninnies
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I read Heroes for Hire back to back, and so did another guy here.
THERE IS NO PANEL saying so, in which implies theyre responsible. Feel free to tell me which page I should be looking at, because there´s nothing besides brood making a nest. Theyre not doing ANYTHING behind the Hulk´s back, unless babies carying toilet paper, for some reason, is EVIL.
All proof so far points to Reed blowing up the reactor, as
a) He said he´d make sure the Hulk would never come back. The only way to do so is to make sure the ship wont work.
b) The explosion of the Core was powerful enough to destroy a city and kill Hulk´s wife, not a single trace of the ship would be left.
c) Cho noting the fact that they used such a core.
d) Again, the playback at the exact moment of the "long message" that Hulk´s scientists found in the ship.
What do we have as proof of Miek doing it? Brood making a nest in an abandoned building, and her kids taking toilet paper.
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Do you read comics? Doesn´t take me 1 minute in google to find pages saying that Miek is following the Hulk, who told them there are No friends. Miek is following the Hulk.
.. NOT MINE
Of course they´ll see humans as enemies. Find another kooky theory to absolve Reed, because theres nothing in Heroes for hire showing Miek did anything against the Hulk.
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Because if that's the case, I may just leave this thread and go argue with myself about WWH
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Wow, it's a pointless insult from someone who contributed nothing, otherwise, how clever!
I don't agree with JCM's point here by and large, but at least he's arguing a point. You're just being a jerk without any clear reason.
That is pretty much the overlying theme of the Hulks tragic tale all the time.
From the beginning with mom and dad, through to Betty and the Gamma bomb, all the way up to his kingdom on Sakaar. Nothing lasts for the Hulk except the Hulk.
Like he realized when he was driven to the savage Hulk again with the last gamma bomb... his greatest curse is that nothing seems to be able to kill him. No matter how much he wants it sometimes.. he survives, he always survives. What many hero's and villains would call a boon he curses because everything else around him crumbles into ash.
Reed knows that the Hulk always seems to survive, hence the "no one kills the Hulk" comment to Cho. Cho may be smart, but he doesn't "know" the Hulk like Reed. So while Cho is worried about Reeds intentions with the Warp drive (up to and including any speculation aboutl making it go Boom intentionally), Reed knows that no matter what he does to the shuttle, the Hulk will live (firing it into a Sun or Black hole or something not withstanding).
I agree with others who say it was not Stark/Reeds intention to kill the Hulk... they wanted him gone... but the death of the Planet of Sakaar is still their fault by their own actions.
They created a weapon (intentional or not) and sent it packing with an enraged and betrayed Hulk... there is no plan they could have thought of where that ship didn't take pretty hefty damage... it should have been built to last as long or longer than they projected it needed to.
That's the crux of the tragedy in WWH. The Hulk wants revenge, he wants blood for blood.... he may even want to push those with power far enough to where they finally find a way to kill him... I don't think we will know what his final real objective is until they make it clear.
He said he wanted Stark/Reed/Strange/Black Bolt dead.. yet he still has Black Bolt (apparently) alive.
Reed appears to still be alive as well. If he was out for real blood, their heads would have sufficed.
Miek/Brood have their own revenge to take, as do others in his Warbound. they specifically asked if any were to be spared, and his answer may as well have been "none". Do I think others are going against him? No, I think they are interpreting the spirit of his reply to their own ends. He said none are to be spared, but that only those 4 matter to him. He never told them they cannot pursue their own agenda's. They flat out told him (Warbound) that Thor and the X-Men are targets.... and they are Warbound to the end... Humans and Earth do not really matter in their little group... at least not right now.
Don't forget, Reed did it all on purpose! Because Cho said that Reed "killed" the Hulk. Never mind the fact that it's pretty obvious that barring somthing extreme the Hulk is basically unkillable. Not to mention that we know that Hulk did infact survive the little Warp Core surprise that Reed may or may not have set up. So by that logic Cho is a dirty liar and was wrong. So there! :P
I'm not going to contribute to the 'Meik set the bomb?' part of the Meik/Brood discussion, but earlier HfH issues (particualrly 10, IIRC - Humbug's power-up issue?) makes it quite clear that at least from the HfH's point of view, the Brood are coming back to fuck with the whole of the Earth.
I wouldnt mind chilling out, but sadly it sems that this forum has too many off-topic trolls, who not smart enough to counteract anything, keep whining off-topic.
Like the pussies below-
If you guys can talk on-topic, without anonymous kids proving just how stupid people can be behind net anonymousity protecting them, I´d be glad to speak on-topic and nicely.
Awesome post, which wraps up most things-
Yep, they wanted him gone, and instead of asking him, they sent him away, tricking him after he had just finished saving the world.
And Dr Strange should be kicked or something, he tried that 3 times before, and it never worked, but either the writers didnt bother to research, or Dr Strange has some serious mental memory problems.
They then assumed that he would land in the right planet, instead of looking back at their track record with ships and planning otherwise, and probably had the reactor blow up.
Like Spiderman, the Hulk cant get a break.
Its funny how seing Namor go to war against the surface on one side and Hulk rampage, with the Brood, andthe rock dude, on the other side, and root for them, when 4 years ago we´d be rooting against them
Thats great writing. Pity it came at the cost of bastardizing Iron Man (amazing Spiderman can be blamed for most of it) and Reed (downhill since John Byrne started writing him as a cold-hearted scientist first)
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And call us rednecks.
They're all wrong. That's the point. Cho's hero worship is as dangerous as Reed's anti-hulk standpoint.
His hero worship is wrong, true, seen by his manipulation of Hercules and Angel.
But the points he brought up when debating Reed to a standstill were spot on.
Anyway, if Hulk becomes too evil, there´s always Namor to root for.
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Died a while ago.
I guess there weren't many stories you could tell with a character like that.
No wait, she was apparently revived, and her current whereabouts are unknown.
For all intents and purposes she's dead... Banner/Hulk do not know she's (maybe) alive.... that'd be a pretty horrible ending to WWH Hulk actually... Look Hulk, don't destroy earth, Betty is aliiiive (dun dun dunnnnnnn).
I agree her story should be over for some time.... if they bring her back, it should be in a more dramatic (emotional, not world is ending) way.
Isn't Hulk pretty much the last person you expect to have an exit strategy?
I guess he'd eventually get around to giving all his friends a new home, though that probably won't come up as I'm guessing they're all going to die.
God, I hope not. I love the Warbound.
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Well, think about this from an editorial perspective (i.e. an external one):
The Marvel universe cannot be under Hulk rule at the end of this event, so at the very least we know that (1) Hulk is going to be (a) beaten, (b) surrender, (c) leave, or some combination thereof.
The Brood/Miek are clearly being written as being outright bad-guys in that even if they didn't outright cause the warp core breach (I'll leave this debate aside for the moment) they certainly are/were looking to exterminate humanity and repopulate Earth with Brood/Miek hybrids. This means that at the end of the arc, (2) Miek/Brood will have to be (a) dead, (b) hiding somewhere on Earth, biding their time, (c) imprisoned by Reed et al. or (d) off on another planet. If Hulk finds out that they were manipulating him at all - given that this whole WWH is about people screwing with Hulk's life - I imagine he'd kill Brood/Miek pretty quickly.
The other Warbound are, however well developed, not that integral in any fashion. Any/all of them (3) could be demoted to basic supervillain status, running around like so many Devil Dinosaur, Venom, etc. Alternately they could be killed/exiled, but it's not really important from an editorial perspective.
I think the only real questions about how WWH will play out are (a) how much damage will be done to the world during WWH (and that's limited by the fact that the US government clearly will still be operating afterward, based on previews of Thor), and (b) how will Hulk end it (death, exile, surrender, defeat, etc.)?
I dont think that means it'll be uninteresting by any means, but rather that there are actually only a few important questions. After that, we've got lesser questions (will Illuminati be publically chastised, etc.)
so you're saying that reed's dastardly plan was to send a bomb with the hulk that he knew had no way of killing the hulk thus making the whole thing pointless.
maybe one day you'll understand how to have a discussion without being a dumb prick to everyone in an attempt to make your point and then act high and mighty when people tell you you're an idiot.
Maybe if you people would learn to fucking READ he wouldn't have to lash out at you CONSTANTLY.
The point is Reed is guilty of murdering an entire world through negligence. The ENTIRE POINT of putting the bomb on the ship was to ensure the Hulk couldn't return. THAT IS IT.
THAT IS ALL JCM has been saying for crying out loud. READ then REPLY. That is how the internet works.
Or even better, READ the comics that are being discussed. Not only would you see all of his points you'd also see the Hulk not even scratched by the damned bomb, while most others where dead.
The Miek debate isn't one if you read the issue, when Miek and Brood are talking they are specifically talking about the video they just saw. Miek's want to remind the hulk what he does, is limited ONLY to showing the hulk this message in order to get him pissed again. The hulk has a talk with Miek, and says some pretty powerful stuff and Miek then understands why the hulk isn't smashing right now and all is well.
They are friends, Planet Hulk is the one story where the Hulk has REAL TRUE friends. His warbound will do anything for him, that is the truely great irony of WWH. Hulk is coming back to get revenge on the people that sent him away so he could be happy. Their plan completely worked, however their negligence ruined the entire thing. Hulk WAS perfectly happy, and not on earth, but Reed's wanting to FORCE the hulk to stay away ruined everything by blowing the world up.
So in closing stop posting crap you people and actually READ the damned Thread for a change. You'll find people don't call you names very often if you do.
Edit: I also find the fact that people are capable of believing that Miek of ALL people would betray the Hulk to be complete insanity. Miek owes everything to the Hulk, Miek throughout Planet Hulk was weak and befriending the Hulk who protected and empowered him. Everything Miek has at this point in time, his great strength his brood lady, everything is because the Hulk was awesome to him and everyone around him. To think that the writers would crap on Miek's character and the entire core of what made Planet Hulk so completely awesome saddens me greatly and I hope that it never comes to pass.
I love WWH. I think (so far) it's a brilliant move by Marvel. First give us a very political and theoretical event (Civil War) and then a nice old school "heroes vs villains" event but with a little twist where you can debate who is the villain. I hope they don't make things to difficult for the more newbie readers. I for example didn't read the Planet Hulk arc at all, I did read the Road to Civil War: Illluminati issue so I know what they did to Hulk.
But all this talk about brood and miek is weirding me out. Is there anythung important I need to know about those to besides they are 2 badasses that hate the puny human race and want to expand their species?
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haha ok. maybe you should actually read jcm's posts from the beginning. i could take a picture of my planet hulk hard cover if you'd like as well.
miek's attitude changes quite a lot from beginning to end of planet hulk.
Actually open it.
I wouldn't discount the possibility at all. I think it's quite likely, in fact. But it's important to understand that Miek wouldn't really see this as a betrayal, rather than helping the Hulk to realize what he is.
What Miek wound up with after the war on Sakaar was a whole lot of not that much at all - his only queen was dead, and his race was doomed to extinction. He blamed the Sakaarians for that, but instead of being allowed to take revenge on them (never stop making them pay, as Hulk said) he had to stop fighting and befriend them.
It seemed towards the end of Planet Hulk that Miek was starting to come around (like his quote "Maybe all this ending so next thing can come" implied), but maybe there was a hidden meaning in it.
And anyway, if Miek did turn out to be behind it all, that would make for an awesome plot twist.
And that's what makes it NOT an awesome plot twist or a great move on the part of the writers (if it comes to pass).
Make the little alien bug guys the villains again instead of making them lasting and interesting characters who started off simple but have evolved into complex beings who are above simply playing the typecast role set in front of them.
WWH doesn't need more bickering inside their group... these are a group of people who have literally gone through hell together and conquered an entire planet, freeing themselves and various people. Miek and Brood may not have much left, but they also aren't festering at the bottom of some gladiator pit somewhere. The brood even shed a tear during Sakaar's destruction, all of them... Hulk included, grew from their trials there.
I'm not saying they won't do it... because this is a comic book after all, typecast villains are part of what they do.
All of the characters in Planet Hulk had an unusually large amount of development for non recurring/non main characters... they were all of them a star in their own right, which will make their loss a tragic one if they all fall in battle to help the Hulk, or even save him from himself potentially... but it will be contrived and very "dirty" if they simply turn any of them into villains against the Hulk of their own free will. If this humbug guy took control of one of them or some such.. then there's something to that, but it's not looking like they will play it out that way.
It wouldn't make for an awesome twist at all considering it takes away from every bit of character development Miek went through in the series.
Also, if one more person says someone should try "READING" something when its clear they already have I'm going to destroy the internet.
He's been heading for a major confrontation with the Hulk ever since he morphed into his king form. His character started to get darker and more brutal ever since then. For him to set the Hulk on the warpath would not be out of character for the person he's become. He's not the same scrappy little twerp who was nothing but comedic relief that he started out as.
He couldn't understand how to stop fighting, how could they live together after all the warring had occurred, in fact.. many could not "get" that point.
That was the last lesson the Hulk taught them all before things went boom.. that they don't HAVE to fight each other. There are many kinds of fights, many struggles to be had, and not all of them involve chopping off limbs and smashing things.
Miek evolved to his king form in the middle of the bloodbath, it was well suited to the time and place he was at... but he's not the only one that lost things... every single member of the warbound has a similar loss. All lost family, friends, loved ones. Some even lost everything, just as he had.
But he grew along with the others, him and the brood both grew, and have a chance to start over.
Maybe they will make them evil infesting bug people that will be wiped out, or maybe not... I'm hoping not. I seem to recall that in a future timeline there are good brood, perhaps this was the start of one such group.. who knows, I just hope they don't ruin all that came to pass in Planet Hulk with a contrived plot twist that isn't even a suprise.
Not to bring this back up again... but I have to question your definition of "reading" when JCM says, bolded even:
And then Angrey, who is supposedly reading the thread replies with:
A full forum page AFTER JCM's post.
Now this just might be me being all crazy and such, but I'd count blatantly ignoring the point being made at hand, bolded even, as not READING.