I mean, I love playing their games. They're super fun. I'm just grumbling about how they don't make any goddamn sense in even the most general aspects from a writing viewpoint.
Elaborate!
I know the obvious problems; they completely disconnect the story with the gameplay, and they take a long time to get where they're going, and there's always a fair bit of self-indulgent filler (though I found Red Dead's journey through the various eras of western a worthwhile endeavor), but I've loved their endings to pieces
This is a fair point, but Max Payne 2 was much better in that regard because it encouraged using the bullet time while standing or running so it wasn't as much hopping back and forth.
Someone sat up in a meeting and said "we should put CARS in a spaghetti western" and everyone agreed with them.
Wait hold on
the whole point of Red Dead is that the west is changing. It's a very Butch Cassidy story.
Marston is a dying breed and really can't survive in this new environment how he would like to
the cars are there because it shows how urbanization and civilization are moving into the West
which is fine in cinema because most filmmakers have heard of subtlety
my problem is not necessarily with the subject but the approach, which felt quite 'HEY WE SHOULD DO THIS BECAUSE THESE GOV'MENT MEN ARE BAD SO THEY SHOULD DRIVE A CAR'
I just took it as they had a car because the Federal Government actually supplies it's agents well as opposed to Martson's lifestyle where he scrounges for every last cent
which is also why they wore very nice suits and hats
it was just a sign of the times changing
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
never-ending-reignPolish Catholicentering a world of painRegistered Userregular
You know what else was a real bitch in Max Payne 1? The goddamn run thru the restaurant while it's on fire. I had such a hard fuckin time with that! Now tho, it's easy.
We knew that we didn't want to start doing the Bully sequel instantly at that second with those guys--even though it is a property that, like Max, we adore and might come back to in the future,” said Houser. “There was just no impetus to do that then. So we said, 'You can do Max, and then we will see what we can do with Bully.' So it was really waiting for the slot to open up and the group to open up to at least start work on it.
yes yes yes Bully sequel do it please
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
I have bully from a steam sale. I should install it and play it
which is a shame almost - that game's development was a fuckshow to rival la noire. it was developed here and i've met a lot of bitter ex-Rockstar devs.
I just took it as they had a car because the Federal Government actually supplies it's agents well as opposed to Martson's lifestyle where he scrounges for every last cent
which is also why they wore very nice suits and hats
it was just a sign of the times changing
its existence is plausible, sure. but in a way that's my problem with Rockstar's games, or games in which they have a say in development (again, like la noire) - a lot of stuff is added because it sounds cool, rather than supporting an overall message or theme. sure, it could be that they were given a car to serve as a contrast to marsden's reliance on horses, but it's not focused on at any point. it's a conclusion you can draw, but nothing about the design or function of the game brings attention to it as a problem, especially compared to setpieces like hunting with your
son
- a skill you'd used the whole game comes in at the end for an emotionally resonant reason. you're not only practicing skinning stuff to make clothes or money, you're teaching someone else by playing the game, which radically shifts your viewpoint. cars? not so much, they're presented as a novelty and it could have been cut with no real loss. in fact, the contrast between the suit and automatic pistol and a horse-drawn carriage might be even more effective because of the incongruity of the two.
and yeah, ultimately it is the way i look at it, and it's by no means objective. but nothing is about stories or games or any kind of art, so i usually take it as read.
thanks! i think a lot about this stuff, but i recognize that i'm not the only one with valid viewpoints and i'm definitely open to being wrong. it's just such a pet peeve of mine that so many AAA titles suffer from story bloat or inconsistent, 'that would be cool' setpieces (like the friggin' zombies in the first uncharted)
in a lot of ways i think AAA titles have too big of a budget! despite how awesome stuff sounds, or how great a storyboard looks in preproduction, it's always the compromise that's usually inherent in the process of actually making the thing that results in creativity. see: the practical effects in John Carpenter's The Thing vs the CGI remake out right now. (i'm getting this from moviebob's show in the escapist.) in the new one, they didn't have to compensate for all the armature and operator space that they needed for the alien, so they just have these boring shots with an alien charging down the hallway in full view; it just takes all of the mystery and suspense away, because there's a monster in full view, and he looks silly because he's made of computer.
again, i'm not saying that these aren't fun things. they're just sloppy.
Actually reports and set photos have shown that there were a ton of practical alien effects in the Thing remake that the director intended to do, but the studio interfered and cut most of the scenes and demanded CGI
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
to be fair
a lot of the mistakes in the thing prequel were because of studio meddling
I'm not going to defend it entirely, it was a little bit of a misguided venture
but there were some good bits cut, and bad bits added
I think right now the setting is my biggest concern. Modern games have made me associate favela scenes with military shooters. I'm having a really hard time believing they can create a convincing noir story in a setting like that.
Also, I really don't like his shaved head. It makes him look more like a generic action hero. If they needed to age him up they could have stuck with that look in the trailer where he's got the week-old beard. It makes him look worn out and grizzled without destroying the classic Max look.
It worried me a lot initially, but I suspect that Rockstar are leaning into the disparity for design and story purposes, and not just doing it for the hella.
I like to believe that joshofalltrades wasn't saying it like it was a bad thing.
Nah, it's lighthearted ribbing, really
But I really wasn't joking about the dream sequences, not only were they overly long and annoying, the fact that you can die in real life by falling down an invisible bottomless pit if you slip up at all in your dream made no goddamn sense
And they got in the way of me jumping back and forth, guns blazing
this is the clincher for me, though; the only thing the games industry seems to have learned from actual noir is the stylistic trappings and not any of what makes it interesting
SHRUG
dude have you read the Yiddish Policeman's Union? I'm about halfway through it and it's goddamned amazing
fucking love that book. I reread it at least once a year, possibly more.
gotta say, that video with the animations has put this game back on my list. Loved the first two but I wasn't sure about this one until now.
never-ending-reignPolish Catholicentering a world of painRegistered Userregular
There's really no such thing as a "perfect game". And usually, what people like and dislike is totally subjective. Sure Max Payne had its flaws but name one game that doesn't have flaws?
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Funny thing is that face is actually one of the lead developers.
hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
Elaborate!
I know the obvious problems; they completely disconnect the story with the gameplay, and they take a long time to get where they're going, and there's always a fair bit of self-indulgent filler (though I found Red Dead's journey through the various eras of western a worthwhile endeavor), but I've loved their endings to pieces
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Coran Attack!
edit:
for those that don't know who that is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Lake
the whole point of Red Dead is that the west is changing. It's a very Butch Cassidy story.
Marston is a dying breed and really can't survive in this new environment how he would like to
the cars are there because it shows how urbanization and civilization are moving into the West
AMERICA, 1911, THE WILD WEST IS DYING.
the cars fit perfectly.
Big Jake, for one.
This is a fair point, but Max Payne 2 was much better in that regard because it encouraged using the bullet time while standing or running so it wasn't as much hopping back and forth.
which is fine in cinema because most filmmakers have heard of subtlety
my problem is not necessarily with the subject but the approach, which felt quite 'HEY WE SHOULD DO THIS BECAUSE THESE GOV'MENT MEN ARE BAD SO THEY SHOULD DRIVE A CAR'
ill-considered, in other words
I just took it as they had a car because the Federal Government actually supplies it's agents well as opposed to Martson's lifestyle where he scrounges for every last cent
which is also why they wore very nice suits and hats
it was just a sign of the times changing
pfft, amateur
yes yes yes Bully sequel do it please
its existence is plausible, sure. but in a way that's my problem with Rockstar's games, or games in which they have a say in development (again, like la noire) - a lot of stuff is added because it sounds cool, rather than supporting an overall message or theme. sure, it could be that they were given a car to serve as a contrast to marsden's reliance on horses, but it's not focused on at any point. it's a conclusion you can draw, but nothing about the design or function of the game brings attention to it as a problem, especially compared to setpieces like hunting with your
and yeah, ultimately it is the way i look at it, and it's by no means objective. but nothing is about stories or games or any kind of art, so i usually take it as read.
in a lot of ways i think AAA titles have too big of a budget! despite how awesome stuff sounds, or how great a storyboard looks in preproduction, it's always the compromise that's usually inherent in the process of actually making the thing that results in creativity. see: the practical effects in John Carpenter's The Thing vs the CGI remake out right now. (i'm getting this from moviebob's show in the escapist.) in the new one, they didn't have to compensate for all the armature and operator space that they needed for the alien, so they just have these boring shots with an alien charging down the hallway in full view; it just takes all of the mystery and suspense away, because there's a monster in full view, and he looks silly because he's made of computer.
again, i'm not saying that these aren't fun things. they're just sloppy.
a lot of the mistakes in the thing prequel were because of studio meddling
I'm not going to defend it entirely, it was a little bit of a misguided venture
but there were some good bits cut, and bad bits added
Also, I really don't like his shaved head. It makes him look more like a generic action hero. If they needed to age him up they could have stuck with that look in the trailer where he's got the week-old beard. It makes him look worn out and grizzled without destroying the classic Max look.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Practical effects forever
Except in Sci-Fi channel original movies.
Sometimes a man wants to gorge on the worst CGI.
Nah, it's lighthearted ribbing, really
But I really wasn't joking about the dream sequences, not only were they overly long and annoying, the fact that you can die in real life by falling down an invisible bottomless pit if you slip up at all in your dream made no goddamn sense
And they got in the way of me jumping back and forth, guns blazing
fucking love that book. I reread it at least once a year, possibly more.
gotta say, that video with the animations has put this game back on my list. Loved the first two but I wasn't sure about this one until now.
Nossir, not at all.
But damn, those animations are gorgeous.
EDIT: For some cheap games in the vein of Max Payne's shooting, check out Stranglehold and Wanted: Weapons of Fate.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
no
they have their charm but holey shit are they flawed in a ton of ways