Cait/Taric is a gigantic pain in the ass in the laning phase. Cait is pretty tough to approach and she zones you away from CS with traps/Piltover all day. And if you make a mistake, Taric stuns, Cait traps your feet and you probably die.
But Cait is the weakest AD carry outside of the laning phase. She has no steroids and her Ult can be blocked and so on and so forth. So you just need to survive the laning phase and try not to feed ze Caitlyn. The Jungler has to help you out, keep them from pushing you into your tower.
Speaking as the Taric: Dazzle cools down faster than Astral Blessing or Sivir's shield (or, for that matter, Valkyrie); that and Guppies keeping upright with lifesteal were sort of the basis of our harassment plan. You'll notice we were sticking the summoner Heal on the carry and I was running exhaust or ignite to make sure we won whatever fights we had, too. As good as Sivir is late-game, she has minuscule range and her ability to poke takes a while to catch up to others'; Like Rius said, Caitlin actually gets weaker over time because her skills fall off in a big way compared to a Graves or MF late-game. It probably didn't help that I was the only support in all three games in a position to go aggressive, as well. Soraka works best with champions like Graves and Ezreal who can pick up the harassment slack their own selves early on provided you feed them mana; you're okay hanging out with a Corki or Sivir if the other support is an equally-passive one, like many Sona players, but Soraka's not as good on against pressure as she could be. Plus, no exhausts on the other side and champions with no CC let us walk away at very low health a couple times in any of our games.
The one time Guppies was in serious trouble was the time when I said "Hey I'm gonna go try to help Yorick push," and didn't leave wards behind. re: wards, if your bottom lane is in trouble, it's useful for the jungler to try to help out with those. Our team, which chipped in more than a few wards even though I was spamming them, had pretty good vision established of a wide swath of the map for most of all of those games; that's a hard thing to fix with low gold, but it does pay off.
@Korror, Leona / Sivir might have worked out better for you guys; I'd gotten very aggressive as Taric over the course of the night. The problem there becomes keeping up with Leona positioning-wise on Sivir without getting beaten on; it's a bit of a toss-up. The really clever thing to do, given we were locking in Cait and Taric pretty early, would have involved grabbing Kog'maw or Miss Fortune or - God forbid - Urgot and just not letting me near your carries.
Also, @Grundlestiltskin is very forgiving, because I'm pretty sure I'm ALSO the one who told him "Nah, it's just Soraka, you're fine." My bad, dude. For future reference, I am sometimes catastrophically wrong.
Moving on to the draft thing, since I'm apparently writing an essay, here, I think the snake-style draft was probably a good call. The spreadsheet is also useful if you use it: Team Zerg Rush was consulting both the spreadsheet and people's draft history as a guide to bans and in-game planning; it's how I ended up with ignite that last game. You might try a multiple-picks snake and get things over with by going 2 people per round, as one suggestion; might also add a "likes playing with" field to the spreadsheet.
your loss was your first 4 picks being trynd, talon, vayne, and warwick so we stacked -as debuffs and beat you in team fights despite the weaker lane phase because trynd/vayne with .1 attack speed isn't very scary. I think malphite alone had -105% attack speed, plus anivia ult and another randuin's on mundo.
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
When I did the Street Fighter ranbats I always thought it would be amazing if there was a fantasy community around it.
Fantasy LoL would be amazing. You have to draft five players for each job, you get points for wins, kills and assists, minus points for deaths. One point for every 10 CS.
Beginning of the season prospective players list thier elo/role or champion of choice. Posts some highlight vids maybe.
Based on how many players sign up, THEN you can start a random drawing for team owners/popularity poll/whataver.
Then I/someone goes full on Mel kiper on that shit. Research the shit out of the players, and makes a big ol draft board. Owners of course can do this privatley as well for MAXIMUM DRAMA.
God i am at work but this is all coming to me holy shit.
That would be silly. Perhaps score assists higher and kills less? Also bonuses for each support item bought (aegis/shurel/locket/WOTA/randuins/zekes/abyssal/soul shroud)?
I would think that as long as you have to pick '2 champs per role per week', it doesn't really matter what the metrics are because everyone plays by the same rules. And if kills are still incredibly valued, you'll see lots of kill lanes and really fun shit.
Buy the pink skin. Generic start, faerie charm, potions, wards. Put a point in E at level one and leave it there. Max W or Q based on what you need. If you're eating a lot of harass you may want Q otherwise go with W. If you're taking a lot of damage from AD you may want W instead of Q. Assume you don't have a passive and don't hit anything unless you have to.
Always use R before W if you can remember just because it'll add slightly to your burst by giving W more AP. R has a real low cooldown and you can afford to use it in any fight basically. You don't lose the aura on shatter, only the passive. At max rank you still have thirty bonus armor or whatever it is, as will your allies. Do not fear using it unless you absolutely need the armor to survive. If that is the case you most likely are dying anyways though.
Aura items are your friend generally. Aegis is fun on him because you're giving your allies something stupid like forty armor. Build him like a regular support basically. If you face a lot of AD and you end up with a lot of gold early get a Randuin's early and watch the baby damage they try to do through your 220 armor at level thirteen, funniest thing ever.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Not every job is equal. In fantasy football you take your WRs and RBs first because they net you a ton of points and you take kickers last because they don't and they don't really matter (since most kickers do about average and it's impossible to determine which kicker will do best).
supports are super important and a lot of the high level teams have been putting their smartest person in the support role lately!
imo it goes mid > support = top > jungler > AD
That would be silly. Perhaps score assists higher and kills less? Also bonuses for each support item bought (aegis/shurel/locket/WOTA/randuins/zekes/abyssal/soul shroud)?
incidentally, I want to taric this weekend playing with my friends. what is the best way to do this?
Taric is a support and a tank more or less until the moment you press W, at which point he's not much of a tank until the cooldown ends. Philo / HoG / boots that make sense (I like cooldown ones most of the time; sometimes Treads or Tabi are a good deal), then try to become inconvenient to kill / continue helping people. Start w/ Dazzle, main W, level Q ahead of W if you're losing your lane until you aren't, then back to W. R is for sieges and securing kills. I recommend starting with boots unless you're looking at a super-aggressive enemy carry like Urgot.
Your basic deal is that you try to get them poking you so they aren't poking the carry, since your heal always restores health to Taric. You aren't rocking a kill lane by default; use E to break up what the enemy is trying or when you're sure it will end badly for the guy you stunned. It's got quite good range and is useful for catching people away from their team.
In teamfights, get in the middle of the enemy team and blow R, then hit whoever is softest that you can reach. Stick around near a carry and try to keep them upright; use your judgement as to whether the armor debuff from blowing W is more help than keeping the armor.
Flash / a support spell (not Heal, that goes on the carry) is your usual setup, because Flash-Dazzle is a nice way to get something started when your jungler comes by or later in the game.
@Jookie is definitely right about everything but the Faerie Charm, which I'd dispute: Run some Mana Regen runes and Meditate and buy one mana potion with the boots, and you'll be okay.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
supports are super important and a lot of the high level teams have been putting their smartest person in the support role lately!
imo it goes mid > support = top > jungler > AD
Kickers are also super important and sometimes Super Bowl hopes and dreams hinge on a successful kick.
But they don't have a lot of metrics to be graded by.
I don't always support, but when I do I run exhaust ignite and have more kills than my carry.
The notion that the kills and creep score column on a support ought to be zero is a pretty terrible misunderstanding, not that I'm accusing you of perpetuating it. They ought to be as low as doesn't cost the team gold. Last-hit while nobody else is around if it's safe, don't be afraid to blow up creep waves if necessary (Taric and Lulu can be very good at this), and unrepentantly finish people off if you aren't certain someone else has got them.
So what can we do to make the PAINHOUSE better? I'd be up for working with someone/ones to structure it, maybe make drafting and playing a little easier. We had 30 people playing yesterday and at least a few more watching the various streams, so it's definitely popular.
My top concern would be reducing drafting time. Still start at 2000 EST, but use military timing, basically, where everyone is there and ready at 1950 so the first pick itself takes place at 2000. Last night ran a touch late for my tastes before a workday.
Also, try to reduce down time between matches a touch if possible. Ideally, if timing permits, drinks and stuff could be acquired during loading screens, although I realize my housing situation is considerably cozier than most.
This is a biggie for me. The thing ostensibly started at 8:00. Our team's first match was at 8:50. We ended up calling it a night after 3 games, each about 30 minutes, but it took 3 and a half hours. Eg, about 90 minutes play time costing 210 minutes total.
I would be totally fine with a webform that just randomly shuffled people into teams each match to make sure everyone in the channel got a chance to play. Or using a spreadsheet to automatically snakedraft present players by ELO if we don't want to reshuffle each game. Ideally at 8:05 we'd just click the draft button and everyone would get sorted into a team (either by autodraft or random), and we could start playing 5 minutes later.
My biggest draw for the PA Inhouses is playing with and against people I normally don't get to play with from the forums. So, the random and psuedo-random determination of people would be a positive for me instead of a negative.
This game is no fun when you suck ass at playing it. Soooo out of practice. I can beat intermediate bots (But really, who can't?) But as soon as I step into Solo Queue as AP or AD I just get bent over like a carnival whore.
Translation: Please recommend me some low-skill champs that I can do reasonably well with. Graves/Riven/Irelia/Orianna gettin torn up like no one's business. Thinking about trying Malz again. Haven't taken Tristana back into Solo Queue due to her weaknesses. Trying not to jungle because that's just a shitty way of avoiding PVP when you're new. (Nothing against jungling, it's just not a good method for getting back into the game.)
graves is about as easy as it gets for AD I'd say, I don't know who's free this week but some top garen might be fun if you're willing to toss some IP at him.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Honestly, the three keys are patience, farm and harassment, in that order.
1. Patience - If you're not comfortable enough with a champ or situation to initiate, don't. Let them initiate on you under a tower and fuck them up. So many people in this game get stupid after not killing anyone for two-five minutes.
2. Farm - Worse comes to worse, just farm effectively. Most people suck at last hitting and farming.
3. Harassment - Outrange them with your AA or a skill? Got more mana/regen/easier hitting spells? Just hit them with something every creep wave.
That said, I suck at both roles, but when I use the above, I at least go even in my lane most of the time.
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Speaking as the Taric: Dazzle cools down faster than Astral Blessing or Sivir's shield (or, for that matter, Valkyrie); that and Guppies keeping upright with lifesteal were sort of the basis of our harassment plan. You'll notice we were sticking the summoner Heal on the carry and I was running exhaust or ignite to make sure we won whatever fights we had, too. As good as Sivir is late-game, she has minuscule range and her ability to poke takes a while to catch up to others'; Like Rius said, Caitlin actually gets weaker over time because her skills fall off in a big way compared to a Graves or MF late-game. It probably didn't help that I was the only support in all three games in a position to go aggressive, as well. Soraka works best with champions like Graves and Ezreal who can pick up the harassment slack their own selves early on provided you feed them mana; you're okay hanging out with a Corki or Sivir if the other support is an equally-passive one, like many Sona players, but Soraka's not as good on against pressure as she could be. Plus, no exhausts on the other side and champions with no CC let us walk away at very low health a couple times in any of our games.
The one time Guppies was in serious trouble was the time when I said "Hey I'm gonna go try to help Yorick push," and didn't leave wards behind. re: wards, if your bottom lane is in trouble, it's useful for the jungler to try to help out with those. Our team, which chipped in more than a few wards even though I was spamming them, had pretty good vision established of a wide swath of the map for most of all of those games; that's a hard thing to fix with low gold, but it does pay off.
@Korror, Leona / Sivir might have worked out better for you guys; I'd gotten very aggressive as Taric over the course of the night. The problem there becomes keeping up with Leona positioning-wise on Sivir without getting beaten on; it's a bit of a toss-up. The really clever thing to do, given we were locking in Cait and Taric pretty early, would have involved grabbing Kog'maw or Miss Fortune or - God forbid - Urgot and just not letting me near your carries.
Also, @Grundlestiltskin is very forgiving, because I'm pretty sure I'm ALSO the one who told him "Nah, it's just Soraka, you're fine." My bad, dude.
Moving on to the draft thing, since I'm apparently writing an essay, here, I think the snake-style draft was probably a good call. The spreadsheet is also useful if you use it: Team Zerg Rush was consulting both the spreadsheet and people's draft history as a guide to bans and in-game planning; it's how I ended up with ignite that last game. You might try a multiple-picks snake and get things over with by going 2 people per round, as one suggestion; might also add a "likes playing with" field to the spreadsheet.
Wait, was there actually a spreadsheet already created?
I'd volunteer if I could reliably be around thursday nights. As it is, it's often rock climbing night, so I'll probably only hit every other.
Yes it's in the OP and I made it after last week.
http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/737
FANTASY LEAUGE OF LEGENDS.
TEAM OWNERS DRAFTING PLAYERS/CHAMPIONS IN DRAFT PICK.
FANTASY SCORING WEEK TO WEEK.
I call dibs on being Mel Kiper.
I'm willing to run highly speculative prop bets re: Nasus / Olaf boss fight scenarios.
Fantasy LoL would be amazing. You have to draft five players for each job, you get points for wins, kills and assists, minus points for deaths. One point for every 10 CS.
Beginning of the season prospective players list thier elo/role or champion of choice. Posts some highlight vids maybe.
Based on how many players sign up, THEN you can start a random drawing for team owners/popularity poll/whataver.
Then I/someone goes full on Mel kiper on that shit. Research the shit out of the players, and makes a big ol draft board. Owners of course can do this privatley as well for MAXIMUM DRAMA.
God i am at work but this is all coming to me holy shit.
That would be silly. Perhaps score assists higher and kills less? Also bonuses for each support item bought (aegis/shurel/locket/WOTA/randuins/zekes/abyssal/soul shroud)?
Always use R before W if you can remember just because it'll add slightly to your burst by giving W more AP. R has a real low cooldown and you can afford to use it in any fight basically. You don't lose the aura on shatter, only the passive. At max rank you still have thirty bonus armor or whatever it is, as will your allies. Do not fear using it unless you absolutely need the armor to survive. If that is the case you most likely are dying anyways though.
Aura items are your friend generally. Aegis is fun on him because you're giving your allies something stupid like forty armor. Build him like a regular support basically. If you face a lot of AD and you end up with a lot of gold early get a Randuin's early and watch the baby damage they try to do through your 220 armor at level thirteen, funniest thing ever.
Not every job is equal. In fantasy football you take your WRs and RBs first because they net you a ton of points and you take kickers last because they don't and they don't really matter (since most kickers do about average and it's impossible to determine which kicker will do best).
Supports are fantasy LoL kickers.
imo it goes mid > support = top > jungler > AD
it was supposed to be silly.
And thanks for the quick write-up @Jookie.
Taric is a support and a tank more or less until the moment you press W, at which point he's not much of a tank until the cooldown ends. Philo / HoG / boots that make sense (I like cooldown ones most of the time; sometimes Treads or Tabi are a good deal), then try to become inconvenient to kill / continue helping people. Start w/ Dazzle, main W, level Q ahead of W if you're losing your lane until you aren't, then back to W. R is for sieges and securing kills. I recommend starting with boots unless you're looking at a super-aggressive enemy carry like Urgot.
Your basic deal is that you try to get them poking you so they aren't poking the carry, since your heal always restores health to Taric. You aren't rocking a kill lane by default; use E to break up what the enemy is trying or when you're sure it will end badly for the guy you stunned. It's got quite good range and is useful for catching people away from their team.
In teamfights, get in the middle of the enemy team and blow R, then hit whoever is softest that you can reach. Stick around near a carry and try to keep them upright; use your judgement as to whether the armor debuff from blowing W is more help than keeping the armor.
Flash / a support spell (not Heal, that goes on the carry) is your usual setup, because Flash-Dazzle is a nice way to get something started when your jungler comes by or later in the game.
@Jookie is definitely right about everything but the Faerie Charm, which I'd dispute: Run some Mana Regen runes and Meditate and buy one mana potion with the boots, and you'll be okay.
Kickers are also super important and sometimes Super Bowl hopes and dreams hinge on a successful kick.
But they don't have a lot of metrics to be graded by.
Same here, that sounds like fun
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
The notion that the kills and creep score column on a support ought to be zero is a pretty terrible misunderstanding, not that I'm accusing you of perpetuating it. They ought to be as low as doesn't cost the team gold. Last-hit while nobody else is around if it's safe, don't be afraid to blow up creep waves if necessary (Taric and Lulu can be very good at this), and unrepentantly finish people off if you aren't certain someone else has got them.
This is a biggie for me. The thing ostensibly started at 8:00. Our team's first match was at 8:50. We ended up calling it a night after 3 games, each about 30 minutes, but it took 3 and a half hours. Eg, about 90 minutes play time costing 210 minutes total.
I would be totally fine with a webform that just randomly shuffled people into teams each match to make sure everyone in the channel got a chance to play. Or using a spreadsheet to automatically snakedraft present players by ELO if we don't want to reshuffle each game. Ideally at 8:05 we'd just click the draft button and everyone would get sorted into a team (either by autodraft or random), and we could start playing 5 minutes later.
My biggest draw for the PA Inhouses is playing with and against people I normally don't get to play with from the forums. So, the random and psuedo-random determination of people would be a positive for me instead of a negative.
I can confirm this.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
This game is no fun when you suck ass at playing it. Soooo out of practice. I can beat intermediate bots (But really, who can't?) But as soon as I step into Solo Queue as AP or AD I just get bent over like a carnival whore.
Translation: Please recommend me some low-skill champs that I can do reasonably well with. Graves/Riven/Irelia/Orianna gettin torn up like no one's business. Thinking about trying Malz again. Haven't taken Tristana back into Solo Queue due to her weaknesses. Trying not to jungle because that's just a shitty way of avoiding PVP when you're new. (Nothing against jungling, it's just not a good method for getting back into the game.)
graves is about as easy as it gets for AD I'd say, I don't know who's free this week but some top garen might be fun if you're willing to toss some IP at him.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Bot You have Soraka and sona for pretty easy supports, and Graves/Caitlyn for easy AD
Top I would say is going to be tough because it is pretty skill based but you can't go wrong with Yorick and Olaf
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
FLASH, E, R, W, IGNITE.
Anyone comes at you and you can just WUP WUP WUP away
1. Patience - If you're not comfortable enough with a champ or situation to initiate, don't. Let them initiate on you under a tower and fuck them up. So many people in this game get stupid after not killing anyone for two-five minutes.
2. Farm - Worse comes to worse, just farm effectively. Most people suck at last hitting and farming.
3. Harassment - Outrange them with your AA or a skill? Got more mana/regen/easier hitting spells? Just hit them with something every creep wave.
That said, I suck at both roles, but when I use the above, I at least go even in my lane most of the time.