Sexuality speculation, minor spoilers for later books.
Did anyone else get the idea that Brynden the Blackfish was gay? I was talking to my friends and said "I'm glad gay uncle Blackfish got away" and everyone looked at me funny, but when you have someone that opposed to the idea of marrying in a universe of that specific type, that seems like a pretty rational guess.
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Sexuality speculation, minor spoilers for later books.
Did anyone else get the idea that Brynden the Blackfish was gay? I was talking to my friends and said "I'm glad gay uncle Blackfish got away" and everyone looked at me funny, but when you have someone that opposed to the idea of marrying in a universe of that specific type, that seems like a pretty rational guess.
While I never thought that way I have seen some people on the boards espouse that view before.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
It's made pretty clear that Stannis has no great love for women, that his marriage and shenanigans with Melisandre are entirely out of sense of duty, but that doesn't make him gay.
Sexuality speculation, minor spoilers for later books.
Did anyone else get the idea that Brynden the Blackfish was gay? I was talking to my friends and said "I'm glad gay uncle Blackfish got away" and everyone looked at me funny, but when you have someone that opposed to the idea of marrying in a universe of that specific type, that seems like a pretty rational guess.
It's a pretty common view afaik. Like, it's never outright stated, but there's alot of hints in several places as I remember. It's even less overt then Renly/Loras though.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
GRRM is on record as saying that the Rainbow Guard is just because people like the colours and its a counterpoint to the Kings Guard. The evidence for
Loras and Renly's loving relationship are throughout the series and are subtle, in a way. In another way they're pretty in your face.
It is strange to me that so many don't pick it up - the other person I've known in meatspace to do so was my girlfriend. Brothers, friends all SMS'd me with "Loras and Renly! WTF?"
Yeah, remember that Clash came out in like 98, when
the rainbow flag wasn't exactly a widespread symbol. He said he had no idea. I guess it's just a happy coincidence.
The pride flag has been in use since the late 70s.
AND it has 8 colours, not 7.
Or 6.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
GRRM is on record as saying that the Rainbow Guard is just because people like the colours and its a counterpoint to the Kings Guard. The evidence for
Loras and Renly's loving relationship are throughout the series and are subtle, in a way. In another way they're pretty in your face.
It is strange to me that so many don't pick it up - the other person I've known in meatspace to do so was my girlfriend. Brothers, friends all SMS'd me with "Loras and Renly! WTF?"
Yeah, remember that Clash came out in like 98, when
the rainbow flag wasn't exactly a widespread symbol. He said he had no idea. I guess it's just a happy coincidence.
The pride flag has been in use since the late 70s.
AND it has 8 colours, not 7.
Or 6.
*shrug*
That's what GRRM says, anyway, when asked about it: that in his experience the rainbow flag wasn't really recognized outside of the gay community as a symbol until more recently than he wrote Clash.
I never really picked up the the relationship either. Not sure why, I guess all the other relationships are pretty obvious throughout the books and really wasn't looking for it. Plus the first scene with Loras has him giving a flower to Sansa and calling her beautiful, which means nothing, but threw off my gaydar. I took Loras to just being loyal friends. I suppose I should have picked up on it when Margery was supposedly still a virgin. I did find that to be odd, but I never pieced the two together.
To be fair to myself, I've never read all the books back to back, so some details might have been overlooked to myself. Could also be a compliment to GRRM that he can do nice subtle stuff.
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Yeah, he prolly wouldn't have done it if he had realized, it's way too cute of a joke for his style to have put in on purpose
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Oh for fuck's sake, I cannot handle the Show thread anymore. Even as someone who has not read the books, the idea that "OMFG, you mentioned a character is getting too much screen time! That's a huge spoiler because now I know its different!" is flat-out ridiculous. I can't even fathom that level of terror over something like that.
That said, I'm really looking forward to seeing how the show develops its own identity. Its rare that someone who creates a story has the chance to go back and change things later. And the chance to take a small change and explore how that ripples through an entire epic? That is a pretty cool concept to see play out.
I've learned that on the Internet and in this forum in particular, people are irrational about spoilers. I don't just mean hyper-sensitive, I mean wholly irrational. I remember when Heroes was on TV, and idiots would jump into the thread immediately after the show aired and start screaming at everyone "I haven't watched it yet!!! Stop spoiling it assholes!!!!" Because of them, the entire thread was in spoiler tags. Not only does that make no rational sense and completely defeat the purpose of having a thread and/or spoiler tages, but in practicality no one was safe from REAL spoilers that would ocassionally get posted, like scripts leaks of future episodes and stuff. Because everything, even stuff from episodes already aired, was considered spoiler.
If you have any significant sensitivity to things being spoiled, you should stay completely clear of discussion forums about any related content. It is wholly irrational to want to discuss a TV show or book all day long in a forum when you know that there are people who have seen or read more than you have, unless you are willing to have at least a little bit of thick skin.
I debated for a very long time before I pointed out the guest right being important in this world thing, even tangentially. I'm trying to be super paranoid about it.
But, see, here's where I take the opposite approach. You really, really need to quit thinking like you need to guide the TV show viewers through the show. I lurk the TV show thread and ocassionally post comments on cool stuff that happened or whatever, but I completely refrain from advising anyone or speculating on things or trying to tell people what will be important later. Seriously, that it super annoying and serves no one but yourself. Stay out of that thread if you can't leave your book knowledge at the door.
On Renly/Loras: I never picked up on that either. Did GRRM confirm it?
I'm with you on the guiding part but to be fair it's really hard to read that thread and you KNOW the answer to someone's questions or that someone is incorrect and being a know-it-all about it and you can't just tell them. Like right now people are all pissed off that there are brothels, but you can't outright go "Yeah well a lot of serious business takes place brothels later with Tyrion/Varys/etc so just suck it up and enjoy the titties". I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I'm with you on spoilers though, I read through about half of the first book and watched one episode of this show and was like "ok I really want to talk about this with other fans so I guess I'm gonna just power through all these books". So I did in about 5 months.
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
Show spoilers:
Dany won't be exposed, sadly. In an interview somewhere the producers said they carefully considered it but thought it would be too distracting. Not sure about the rest of Qarth's female population.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
I'd be far more distracted if she walked about with one butt cheek exposed.
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
And I think you are missing the point that the previously discussed scenes at the brothel were a part of continuing the story and setting the scene for future episodes.
It really comes across that at least part of the "explosion" has to do with people not liking the adaption of the book, from the point of view of someone who has read the books as well, of which the character Ros is definitely a notable addition ... who seems to be chiefly a vehicle for making Littlefinger more obvious to the viewer as a player in the Game of Thrones as to how he came to power being The Pimp by appointing competent people like Ros to look after his businesses that also serve as a network of informants that rival The Spider's little birds in King's Landing.
As to finding the nudity a bit shocking? I think there is some of that as well, its not like the Dothraki scenes and Littlefinger's training of Ros wasn't noted for it in Season 1 as well as these more recent episodes. What seems be the real issue with many was how purposefully uncomfortable those scenes were for some people because the sex was salty. IIRC, some found the topic of Dothraki rape to be unnerving as well and how that differed from the books, my confused self included.
Was able to rewatch ep. 12 last night. One thing I missed the first time was the first shot of Jon, he was dutifully sharpening his sword. Very nice touch.
Also, I absolutely love their choice for Davos. Makes me so very happy.
Was able to rewatch ep. 12 last night. One thing I missed the first time was the first shot of Jon, he was dutifully sharpening his sword. Very nice touch.
Also, I absolutely love their choice for Davos. Makes me so very happy.
The interview Kana posted has a link to one with Davos. Poor guy has to keep his missing fingers all bent up in that glove for hours, which is apparently quite painful.
Made me feel guilty for not noticing his fingers are actually shorter in that glove.
[e]*shakes fist at autocorrect*
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
Which glove? His one hand is gripping the hilt of his sword most of the time and the other hand doesn't have any problem moving the fingers around. I found it particularly perplexing because in that same scene they specifically mention the fingers.
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
How in the hell did the forums quote me for saying that? That's the second time it's happened to me
I want her boobie to be hanging out. Why? Why not!?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
How in the hell did the forums quote me for saying that? That's the second time it's happened to me
I want her boobie to be hanging out. Why? Why not!?
I believe Davos' actor is left handed, so they just made Davos left handed and cut off his right fingers instead.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I can't imagine how that thread is going to explode if the producers decide that when Dany gets to Qarth all the female extras (or Dany herself) are running around with one tit hanging out in the background.
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
How in the hell did the forums quote me for saying that? That's the second time it's happened to me
I want her boobie to be hanging out. Why? Why not!?
Basically as GRRM points out, in medieval times there just wasn't such a thing as self-identifying as a "gay man". People were obviously still gay, but it wasn't really part of a group identity.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
On one hand, they had a nice consolidation of Arya's storyline. On the other hand, I miss not getting to see her group making their way through the forest.
On one hand, they had a nice consolidation of Arya's storyline. On the other hand, I miss not getting to see her group making their way through the forest.
Yeah, but maybe we'll be able to get them having some of those moments in Harrenhal instead. Or just save 'em for Hot Pie, Arya, and Gendry wandering through the forest Part Deux, after they escape Harrenhal. Also I liked having Yoren be kind of Arya's inspiration for her murder list, I had been wondering how they'd make that make sense on TV.
Plus seriously how good is Arya's actress?
Combining the Tyrion plotting scenes was pretty well done too, it was pretty easy to miss what was going on in the books. I'm still not sure about this upcoming Catelyn / Littlefinger scene, but I'm witholding judgment until it plays out.
Also jesus christ how perfect is Brienne?
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
On one hand, they had a nice consolidation of Arya's storyline. On the other hand, I miss not getting to see her group making their way through the forest.
Yeah, but maybe we'll be able to get them having some of those moments in Harrenhal instead. Or just save 'em for Hot Pie, Arya, and Gendry wandering through the forest Part Deux, after they escape Harrenhal. Also I liked having Yoren be kind of Arya's inspiration for her murder list, I had been wondering how they'd make that make sense on TV.
Plus seriously how good is Arya's actress?
Combining the Tyrion plotting scenes was pretty well done too, it was pretty easy to miss what was going on in the books. I'm still not sure about this upcoming Catelyn / Littlefinger scene, but I'm witholding judgment until it plays out.
Also jesus christ how perfect is Brienne?
I shouted "Holy crap she is tall!" when they put her next to Cat.
Maise Williams is amazing and I hope she doesn't fall victim to the same fate as most child actors/actresses. I mean, they clearly made many sacrifices to the casting gods to make this show but Maise is a special find. And yeah, I like that she gets the prayer from Yoren. It will help emphasize that she picks up things from people.
This episode definitely took the biggest departure, at least in a lot of little details, from the books.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
I agree, and I'm very much ok with it. They seem to know exactly what to lift straight from the books, what, to change, and what to leave out. I hope they don't follow through with the plan to make book 3 into two different seasons. I have faith that they could pare it down.
Edit: They actually added a few scenes this past episode to make explicit a couple plot points that were either murky or came together from lots of details over hundreds of pages. That kind of shit doesn't work on TV, so it's fine. Skillful adaptation.
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Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
I thought they were going to drop a "Margery likes the ladies" spoiler, which I've been suspecting. Or a real book 6 spoiler.
Is it possible that the
Moon tea Margery supposedly requests was to flush little Renly out? Had she consummated with Joff, it could have gone unnoticed the her child had a Baratheon look. I just assumed Pycelle was lying so I never considered it.
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While I never thought that way I have seen some people on the boards espouse that view before.
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
It's a pretty common view afaik. Like, it's never outright stated, but there's alot of hints in several places as I remember. It's even less overt then Renly/Loras though.
The pride flag has been in use since the late 70s.
AND it has 8 colours, not 7.
Or 6.
*shrug*
That's what GRRM says, anyway, when asked about it: that in his experience the rainbow flag wasn't really recognized outside of the gay community as a symbol until more recently than he wrote Clash.
To be fair to myself, I've never read all the books back to back, so some details might have been overlooked to myself. Could also be a compliment to GRRM that he can do nice subtle stuff.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I've learned that on the Internet and in this forum in particular, people are irrational about spoilers. I don't just mean hyper-sensitive, I mean wholly irrational. I remember when Heroes was on TV, and idiots would jump into the thread immediately after the show aired and start screaming at everyone "I haven't watched it yet!!! Stop spoiling it assholes!!!!" Because of them, the entire thread was in spoiler tags. Not only does that make no rational sense and completely defeat the purpose of having a thread and/or spoiler tages, but in practicality no one was safe from REAL spoilers that would ocassionally get posted, like scripts leaks of future episodes and stuff. Because everything, even stuff from episodes already aired, was considered spoiler.
If you have any significant sensitivity to things being spoiled, you should stay completely clear of discussion forums about any related content. It is wholly irrational to want to discuss a TV show or book all day long in a forum when you know that there are people who have seen or read more than you have, unless you are willing to have at least a little bit of thick skin.
But, see, here's where I take the opposite approach. You really, really need to quit thinking like you need to guide the TV show viewers through the show. I lurk the TV show thread and ocassionally post comments on cool stuff that happened or whatever, but I completely refrain from advising anyone or speculating on things or trying to tell people what will be important later. Seriously, that it super annoying and serves no one but yourself. Stay out of that thread if you can't leave your book knowledge at the door.
On Renly/Loras: I never picked up on that either. Did GRRM confirm it?
I'm with you on spoilers though, I read through about half of the first book and watched one episode of this show and was like "ok I really want to talk about this with other fans so I guess I'm gonna just power through all these books". So I did in about 5 months.
Show spoilers:
I think you are missing the point there. That won't take up any plot time at all, so who cares? It's a costume thing.
And I think you are missing the point that the previously discussed scenes at the brothel were a part of continuing the story and setting the scene for future episodes.
It really comes across that at least part of the "explosion" has to do with people not liking the adaption of the book, from the point of view of someone who has read the books as well, of which the character Ros is definitely a notable addition ... who seems to be chiefly a vehicle for making Littlefinger more obvious to the viewer as a player in the Game of Thrones as to how he came to power being The Pimp by appointing competent people like Ros to look after his businesses that also serve as a network of informants that rival The Spider's little birds in King's Landing.
As to finding the nudity a bit shocking? I think there is some of that as well, its not like the Dothraki scenes and Littlefinger's training of Ros wasn't noted for it in Season 1 as well as these more recent episodes. What seems be the real issue with many was how purposefully uncomfortable those scenes were for some people because the sex was salty. IIRC, some found the topic of Dothraki rape to be unnerving as well and how that differed from the books, my confused self included.
Also, I absolutely love their choice for Davos. Makes me so very happy.
twit feed
Made me feel guilty for not noticing his fingers are actually shorter in that glove.
[e]*shakes fist at autocorrect*
How in the hell did the forums quote me for saying that? That's the second time it's happened to me
I want her boobie to be hanging out. Why? Why not!?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Butt or bust.
EDIT: I should probably read the entire conversation before commenting.
Bust, please.
I think he has, but there's a nice article laying out all the references to it in the books: http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/loras_and_renly_gay.html
Plus Renly never banged Margery, despite them being together for a couple months.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
That was book 3.
Been a while since I read it. Was thinking book 4.
Either way, those two things happen.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Plus seriously how good is Arya's actress?
Combining the Tyrion plotting scenes was pretty well done too, it was pretty easy to miss what was going on in the books. I'm still not sure about this upcoming Catelyn / Littlefinger scene, but I'm witholding judgment until it plays out.
Also jesus christ how perfect is Brienne?
I shouted "Holy crap she is tall!" when they put her next to Cat.
Edit: They actually added a few scenes this past episode to make explicit a couple plot points that were either murky or came together from lots of details over hundreds of pages. That kind of shit doesn't work on TV, so it's fine. Skillful adaptation.
Is it possible that the
Bonus triva I dare not post in the other thread: One of the great old ones kings of the Iron Islands was named Dagon.
Servant of The Other indeed.
I was glad the Damphair made it in this Ep, I've been concerned that Theon's colorful uncles might not make the cut until much later.