Ranged AD kayle would be stronger with a stun, but not OP. She'd have a very strong early game with ganks, but she'd have the same issue's she has now later; not great steroids. Her E damage stops being a big deal late game, her passive is miniscule, and the extra damage from Q isnt much either. She has no real gap closer, the splash damage isn't huge. She does have her ult, but thats the only thing that gives her a real advantage.
A 1 to 2 sec stun would make her strong early, but falter off late if the advantage wasn't pressed.
Not sure what metric you're gauging steroids by, since those basically combine to create a pretty amazing steroid. Okay, it's no Vayne passive steroid, but it's still a serious buff.
Her only drawback is still her farming, as you can test out pretty easily by playing her on Dominion and building offensively.
Her passive ends up making her do about 4% more damage to enemies. After five hits.
Her Q is down far more often than it's up, and is a mana hog. Even then, its 10% more damage, which is good, but its not huge.
Her E has some splash damage, but realize thats 40% damage, without any of her other steroids coming into play. Also, after ten seconds she's no longer ranged, which is roughly a trade, because AD Kayle isn't building CDR. Ten seconds is a lot, but its not as having six seconds of every sixteen as a melee ad.
On the other hand, look at her downsides. No dash gap closer(speed boost for a few seconds, but not as nice as a dash). Lower range than almost all other ranged AD carry's, and only when she uses a skill. No traditional steroids(AS, AD, crit), making her worse off later game. She pushes lane when making ranged attacks. If she's using her stun often in this scenario, she'll be running oom really quickly. You could counter her with a taric support, or possibly janna/alistar, making her aggresion moot and letting your kog/vayne/tristana get later game where they will be much more valuable.
Kayle top is very strong right now if you play as raw AD. There's a guide from Rincent up on solomid with the finer points of the build. Let me repeat: she is a very strong top right now. She puts out a lot of damage and once she gets her ult, if she's even a little ahead, she can dive at the tower with reckless abandon. She trades favorably already, giving her a 2 second stun would make her an autoban - she would never lose top.
I've read rincent's guide and seen him play her, as well as having done it a good amount myself. My biggest concern when thinking what would make kayle better was "Would this make her OP top?". The thing is, I'm not really sure it would. The 35% slow lets her follow the enemy and take whacks at him for four seconds as he limps back to tower. This is at rank 1. Rank 1 of the stun would be one second(my thinking is it would be 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2.0). A one second stun, in practice, I don't think would let her get in as many swings as the 4 second slow would. At later levels, with boots 2 and all, it surely would, but top kayle is all about early aggression when E is up, and passivity when its down. I could be wrong, but I feel like it would be worse for kayle top, unless the jungler made an appearance.
you're not considering all the other things that stuns do that snares don't... interrupts channeling, locks out summoners, prevents any kind of retaliation
top lane kayle already maxes Q, so at level 9 you'd have a two-second stun that deals 210 damage with 1.0 AD and AP ratios, that makes the target take 10% extra damage while they're stunned? most top lanes would be zoned out completely, she'd eat you alive without taking anything in return
Yeah, that new shield looks really entertaining. I'd skip the Warmog's and get spell vamp instead, though; might as well heal off Tibbers after the initial burst.
you would need to do like 6000 damage before you healed the hp that warmog's gives you so not as effective in a team fight.
... but it's much, much cheaper to build a WotA.
not really since wota is getting a 500g cost increase
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Yeah, that new shield looks really entertaining. I'd skip the Warmog's and get spell vamp instead, though; might as well heal off Tibbers after the initial burst.
you would need to do like 6000 damage before you healed the hp that warmog's gives you so not as effective in a team fight.
... but it's much, much cheaper to build a WotA.
not really since wota is getting a 500g cost increase
Okay, you've got me there.
Anyone else think we're gonna see a more casters running Exhaust with the new Morello's active?
Yeah, that new shield looks really entertaining. I'd skip the Warmog's and get spell vamp instead, though; might as well heal off Tibbers after the initial burst.
you would need to do like 6000 damage before you healed the hp that warmog's gives you so not as effective in a team fight.
... but it's much, much cheaper to build a WotA.
not really since wota is getting a 500g cost increase
Okay, you've got me there.
Anyone else think we're gonna see a more casters running Exhaust with the new Morello's active?
Probably, but people will still want ignite for early game kill secures.
Ranged AD kayle would be stronger with a stun, but not OP. She'd have a very strong early game with ganks, but she'd have the same issue's she has now later; not great steroids. Her E damage stops being a big deal late game, her passive is miniscule, and the extra damage from Q isnt much either. She has no real gap closer, the splash damage isn't huge. She does have her ult, but thats the only thing that gives her a real advantage.
A 1 to 2 sec stun would make her strong early, but falter off late if the advantage wasn't pressed.
Not sure what metric you're gauging steroids by, since those basically combine to create a pretty amazing steroid. Okay, it's no Vayne passive steroid, but it's still a serious buff.
Her only drawback is still her farming, as you can test out pretty easily by playing her on Dominion and building offensively.
Her passive ends up making her do about 4% more damage to enemies. After five hits.
Her Q is down far more often than it's up, and is a mana hog. Even then, its 10% more damage, which is good, but its not huge.
Her E has some splash damage, but realize thats 40% damage, without any of her other steroids coming into play. Also, after ten seconds she's no longer ranged, which is roughly a trade, because AD Kayle isn't building CDR. Ten seconds is a lot, but its not as having six seconds of every sixteen as a melee ad.
On the other hand, look at her downsides. No dash gap closer(speed boost for a few seconds, but not as nice as a dash). Lower range than almost all other ranged AD carry's, and only when she uses a skill. No traditional steroids(AS, AD, crit), making her worse off later game. She pushes lane when making ranged attacks. If she's using her stun often in this scenario, she'll be running oom really quickly. You could counter her with a taric support, or possibly janna/alistar, making her aggresion moot and letting your kog/vayne/tristana get later game where they will be much more valuable.
Kayle top is very strong right now if you play as raw AD. There's a guide from Rincent up on solomid with the finer points of the build. Let me repeat: she is a very strong top right now. She puts out a lot of damage and once she gets her ult, if she's even a little ahead, she can dive at the tower with reckless abandon. She trades favorably already, giving her a 2 second stun would make her an autoban - she would never lose top.
I've read rincent's guide and seen him play her, as well as having done it a good amount myself. My biggest concern when thinking what would make kayle better was "Would this make her OP top?". The thing is, I'm not really sure it would. The 35% slow lets her follow the enemy and take whacks at him for four seconds as he limps back to tower. This is at rank 1. Rank 1 of the stun would be one second(my thinking is it would be 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2.0). A one second stun, in practice, I don't think would let her get in as many swings as the 4 second slow would. At later levels, with boots 2 and all, it surely would, but top kayle is all about early aggression when E is up, and passivity when its down. I could be wrong, but I feel like it would be worse for kayle top, unless the jungler made an appearance.
The problem with a stun isn't just from how long she can hit him for you also have to factor in the fact that the enemy cannot retaliate. With a slow the enemy can still use abilities and fight back or flee. With a stun they can do nothing for the duration. I could see your point if perhaps it was a short root instead of a stun. But a stun is too powerful.
I hadn't considered a root, that'd actually be a much better compromise.
I mean I didn't think that was a hard counter, I just think they had a poor attitude going in and got outplayed. Thoughts?
You are correct. Graves / Soraka should have no issues there except that they're stuck waiting for the opportunity to burst Sivir to death instead of doing what you usually do with that pairing, which is to be a colossal ass with Buckshot. There are an alarming number of people in solo queue who are convinced they're losing if they're not on the offensive all the time.
Graves/Soraka can't really beat Taric/Sivir in lane imo. All Taric/Sivir has to do is focus soraka and then they win the lane. The stun prevents Roka from burst healing/giving armor to protect against sivir's follow up. Then Sivir just has to ability weave and Roka's low base values will be eaten alive while graves futilely tries to stop them. Once roka is down once sivir will snowball.
there are times when you want to initiate with a shen ult
"hey shen we're going to dive ult me"
double kill!
Also you can use Shen's ult to "drag" him along with another champion. Like a teleporting TF or ulting nocturne. So you can coordinate to start a 2v1 gank with no one around.
Ashes laning partners are suppot with cc options to prevent trading or take over on the trading options. Taric, sona, janna, lulu are great options for supporting ashe.
Exception: If you play with Soraka, max volley and use it on CD for harass.
Damage scales very well off of health
Global mobility
Very hard to gank
Nigh impossible to push out of lane
Destroys 90% of melee AD
Has no 'bad' lanes
Can last hit under tower like a bawss
Great in team fights
Fantastic sustain
Bad things about Shen:
If the enemy laner can out-sustain your harass, you have no way of increasing that damage
Hard to put damage on kiting enemies
That's about it.
For all he has going for him, decisively winning your lane as Shen doesn't win the game in the same way that it does for other champs in the same lane, or other lanes in the game.
Also, while his damage scales off health, which is awesome as hell, he cannot quickly scale in damage because his scaling is still weird. He kinda benefits from everything but doesn't benefit well from anything.
Yorick: Shen last hits under tower, and then Yorick dies to the ganker plus taunt.
GP: I've destroyed every (7~) GP I've faced, no quarter.
Riven: I've destroyed every (4~) Riven I've faced, no quarter.
Never fought Kayle top as Shen.
Trynd "counters" Shen in that Shen cannot beat him decisively and each gold for trynd is worth more than each gold for shen. Which, actually, you can say for a lot of champs. A 0/0/0 high CS Shen simply isn't as useful as a 0/0/0 high CS Riven, for example.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Graves/Soraka can't really beat Taric/Sivir in lane imo. All Taric/Sivir has to do is focus soraka and then they win the lane. The stun prevents Roka from burst healing/giving armor to protect against sivir's follow up. Then Sivir just has to ability weave and Roka's low base values will be eaten alive while graves futilely tries to stop them. Once roka is down once sivir will snowball.
That's the thing, though; if you do not create the chance to focus Soraka, they cannot in fact kill Farmer Graves, Esquire. This largely involves being clever with smoke grenades. It's certainly not "winning," but you can get out of that matchup with plenty of CS on Graves and - if your jungler's on the ball - a couple of "Oh shit, Collateral Damage hurts" kills.
I'm pretty sure stuff like that is why you see such tiny kill counts in some of the really high-Elo games.
i dunno, i can see shen beating trynd pretty soundly
trynd doesn't have a good answer to vorpal blade harassment and trynd can't duel him either since shen doesn't care about mocking shout and loses nothing by building health and armor
you'd have to get a really good gank on shen to win that lane, imo
Damage scales very well off of health
Global mobility
Very hard to gank
Nigh impossible to push out of lane
Destroys 90% of melee AD
Has no 'bad' lanes
Can last hit under tower like a bawss
Great in team fights
Fantastic sustain
Bad things about Shen:
If the enemy laner can out-sustain your harass, you have no way of increasing that damage
Hard to put damage on kiting enemies
That's about it.
For all he has going for him, decisively winning your lane as Shen doesn't win the game in the same way that it does for other champs in the same lane, or other lanes in the game.
Also, while his damage scales off health, which is awesome as hell, he cannot quickly scale in damage because his scaling is still weird. He kinda benefits from everything but doesn't benefit well from anything.
Yorick: Shen last hits under tower, and then Yorick dies to the ganker plus taunt.
GP: I've destroyed every (7~) GP I've faced, no quarter.
Riven: I've destroyed every (4~) Riven I've faced, no quarter.
Never fought Kayle top as Shen.
Trynd "counters" Shen in that Shen cannot beat him decisively and each gold for trynd is worth more than each gold for shen. Which, actually, you can say for a lot of champs. A 0/0/0 high CS Shen simply isn't as useful as a 0/0/0 high CS Riven, for example.
If Shen becomes the strongest champ in the match by winning his lane pretty hard it's so hard for the other team to have a chance to come back. If he's able to 1v1 the other team's best then all they have to do is split push him until they win. If only one person shows up and tries to wave clear he can just kill them, if he doesn't feel like doing that he can just ult to the now 5v4 anywhere else at whim. If the team with shen plays right there isn't even an opportunity for the other team to come back via better teamfighting or comp because the rest of the game is basically 4v5 or worse. Shen doesn't carry by killing everyone, he carries by making the other team have to put up with stupid 4v5 fights for the rest of the game.
I don't think his laning phase is particularly broken. Sure he's safe against a good number of picks, but he doesn't become some DPS monster that kills everything and he's not the strongest duelest in the game, but he doesn't have to be control the entire game because his ult is so ridiculous. If say Riven gets fed up top but your other lanes are doing alright and your team comp is good you can still be alright despite the fact that she can show up and melt everyone's face. If shen ever gets to the point where he can 1v1 anyone on the other team then they are totally screwed instead of just mildly screwed because the options go from split push until somebody comes and then ult to a 4v5 to kill the response to the split push and keep pushing or watch 2 champs show up and ult into the 3v5.
The discussion about bringing his ult in line is really mild too. No one wants to see him nerfed into the ground like he was before, they just want his ult to be logically consistent with the other heroes. His ult would still be incredibly useful, and he would go from being an autoban to a playable and fun hero, that doesn't ruin games. Bringing his ult in line is a positive step for the game as a whole.
The discussion about bringing his ult in line is really mild too. No one wants to see him nerfed into the ground like he was before, they just want his ult to be logically consistent with the other heroes. His ult would still be incredibly useful, and he would go from being an autoban to a playable and fun hero, that doesn't ruin games. Bringing his ult in line is a positive step for the game as a whole.
Except his ult tends to be actively harmful in a team fight. A well farmed AD carry punches through the shield before the channel time, so while it can still be useful to facilitate a split push, trading an ultimate to prevent a couple seconds of auto attacks, during which you cannot do damage or CC any targets, is pretty questionable. Galio, by comparison, prevents 100% of damage to his squishies assuming he captures the entire enemy team.
I think the complaining is a bit much, but I wouldn't mind a range nerf so long as it got something else out of it, like a one second channel, or granting Shen's defenses to the target until the shield is broken, or something that would make it more than a near exclusively mid game ability. It's like Cait ult in that it sucks worse than not using it unless used with the utmost of care.
The discussion about bringing his ult in line is really mild too. No one wants to see him nerfed into the ground like he was before, they just want his ult to be logically consistent with the other heroes. His ult would still be incredibly useful, and he would go from being an autoban to a playable and fun hero, that doesn't ruin games. Bringing his ult in line is a positive step for the game as a whole.
Except his ult tends to be actively harmful in a team fight. A well farmed AD carry punches through the shield before the channel time, so while it can still be useful to facilitate a split push, trading an ultimate to prevent a couple seconds of auto attacks, during which you cannot do damage or CC any targets, is pretty questionable. Galio, by comparison, prevents 100% of damage to his squishies assuming he captures the entire enemy team.
I think the complaining is a bit much, but I wouldn't mind a range nerf so long as it got something else out of it, like a one second channel, or granting Shen's defenses to the target until the shield is broken, or something that would make it more than a near exclusively mid game ability. It's like Cait ult in that it sucks worse than not using it unless used with the utmost of care.
Those couple seconds of autoattacks are exactly what you are trying to prevent. That gives you the time to get there and taunt the enemy.
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The discussion about bringing his ult in line is really mild too. No one wants to see him nerfed into the ground like he was before, they just want his ult to be logically consistent with the other heroes. His ult would still be incredibly useful, and he would go from being an autoban to a playable and fun hero, that doesn't ruin games. Bringing his ult in line is a positive step for the game as a whole.
Except his ult tends to be actively harmful in a team fight. A well farmed AD carry punches through the shield before the channel time, so while it can still be useful to facilitate a split push, trading an ultimate to prevent a couple seconds of auto attacks, during which you cannot do damage or CC any targets, is pretty questionable. Galio, by comparison, prevents 100% of damage to his squishies assuming he captures the entire enemy team.
I think the complaining is a bit much, but I wouldn't mind a range nerf so long as it got something else out of it, like a one second channel, or granting Shen's defenses to the target until the shield is broken, or something that would make it more than a near exclusively mid game ability. It's like Cait ult in that it sucks worse than not using it unless used with the utmost of care.
Why? Why does he need to be buffed to compensate? He would be a perfectly fine top, who leans towards the tanky side of the tanky-bruiser spectrum. His ult would be still be useful.
Are you there going to be situations where if you use it poorly it screws your team? Sure, absolutely. But that's not the point. Jarvan can ruin his entire team with a poor ult, but that's irrelevant to him as a hero. If he could cast that ult from anywhere on the map, it would be a serious, serious problem and you'd probably see him banned every game too.
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i built maw on olaf and the resulting boner erupted through my pants and splintered my desk like a mighty leaping whale cracking the surface of the water
Speaking of Shen being op, I broke a soul-crushing losing streak the other night when I was last-pick with the other team having first-picked Shen and banned Warwick and I was left with top lane. I took Cho'Gath and managed to out-farm Shen and even get an assist on a successful gank during laning. Proceeded to waddle all over the map being a dick and letting our carries do their jobs unmolested. Felt good man.
Of course, the enemy jungler never showed his face and I'm sure that Shen wasn't very good (did have the new warlord skin though), but that was a hell of a way to end the streak.
Last game I found out why Eve isn't very good. Poor jungle Eve on my team just got shut down all over the place. Badtimes.
Next game I found out that you can win games at my level without a jungler still. Our last pick guy chose Corki instead of jungles, so he just went top with me. That wasn't great, because he kept the lane megapushed and let Nasus get lots of Qs, but we did eventually down his tower while avoiding ganks through Teemovision. Meanwhile bot (Soraka/Trist) had been feeding a little bit to ganks. But we won midgame teamfights just barely despite being down on farm, and in the endgame our 2.5 AD carries crushed everything. :^:
Graves/Soraka can't really beat Taric/Sivir in lane imo. All Taric/Sivir has to do is focus soraka and then they win the lane. The stun prevents Roka from burst healing/giving armor to protect against sivir's follow up. Then Sivir just has to ability weave and Roka's low base values will be eaten alive while graves futilely tries to stop them. Once roka is down once sivir will snowball.
That's the thing, though; if you do not create the chance to focus Soraka, they cannot in fact kill Farmer Graves, Esquire. This largely involves being clever with smoke grenades. It's certainly not "winning," but you can get out of that matchup with plenty of CS on Graves and - if your jungler's on the ball - a couple of "Oh shit, Collateral Damage hurts" kills.
I'm pretty sure stuff like that is why you see such tiny kill counts in some of the really high-Elo games.
Yep, if Soraka just sits behind Graves and batteries, you basically can't ever get to her without going through Graves and hello free damage.
i built maw on olaf and the resulting boner erupted through my pants and splintered my desk like a mighty leaping whale cracking the surface of the water
That's about the same response I just had. I probably should have built Infinity Edge instead of turning my Phage into a Mallet for hilarious five hundred AD crits.
It also gives magic resist and the shield which saved my life quite frequently, I was surprised. Olaf gets a lot of lifesteal anyways out of nothing but W and Wriggle's so he can be quite durable even without the lifesteal from bloodthirster.
I used to feel the same way but I don't know, I just felt like trying it one game and it actually went well. If the combine cost was cheaper it'd be amazing, that was one thing I always thought about it. And if anything the passive+magic resist lets you ignore the magic damage, beat down the one dealing physical damage, and then go kill the person dealing magic damage if they haven't already fled in terror.
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you're not considering all the other things that stuns do that snares don't... interrupts channeling, locks out summoners, prevents any kind of retaliation
top lane kayle already maxes Q, so at level 9 you'd have a two-second stun that deals 210 damage with 1.0 AD and AP ratios, that makes the target take 10% extra damage while they're stunned? most top lanes would be zoned out completely, she'd eat you alive without taking anything in return
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not really since wota is getting a 500g cost increase
Okay, you've got me there.
Anyone else think we're gonna see a more casters running Exhaust with the new Morello's active?
Probably, but people will still want ignite for early game kill secures.
I hadn't considered a root, that'd actually be a much better compromise.
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i've played tankindinger using a full scaling AP page (85 at 18), ROA, AA, PartyHat, Rylais and warmogs, boots of whatever, prbly spellpen.
yes, please come attack me while i'm standing between my two turrets, and have every other spell up. please.
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Graves/Soraka can't really beat Taric/Sivir in lane imo. All Taric/Sivir has to do is focus soraka and then they win the lane. The stun prevents Roka from burst healing/giving armor to protect against sivir's follow up. Then Sivir just has to ability weave and Roka's low base values will be eaten alive while graves futilely tries to stop them. Once roka is down once sivir will snowball.
lol no
Also you can use Shen's ult to "drag" him along with another champion. Like a teleporting TF or ulting nocturne. So you can coordinate to start a 2v1 gank with no one around.
Exception: If you play with Soraka, max volley and use it on CD for harass.
For all he has going for him, decisively winning your lane as Shen doesn't win the game in the same way that it does for other champs in the same lane, or other lanes in the game.
Also, while his damage scales off health, which is awesome as hell, he cannot quickly scale in damage because his scaling is still weird. He kinda benefits from everything but doesn't benefit well from anything.
Trynd "counters" Shen in that Shen cannot beat him decisively and each gold for trynd is worth more than each gold for shen. Which, actually, you can say for a lot of champs. A 0/0/0 high CS Shen simply isn't as useful as a 0/0/0 high CS Riven, for example.
That's the thing, though; if you do not create the chance to focus Soraka, they cannot in fact kill Farmer Graves, Esquire. This largely involves being clever with smoke grenades. It's certainly not "winning," but you can get out of that matchup with plenty of CS on Graves and - if your jungler's on the ball - a couple of "Oh shit, Collateral Damage hurts" kills.
I'm pretty sure stuff like that is why you see such tiny kill counts in some of the really high-Elo games.
trynd doesn't have a good answer to vorpal blade harassment and trynd can't duel him either since shen doesn't care about mocking shout and loses nothing by building health and armor
you'd have to get a really good gank on shen to win that lane, imo
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alexandrite, motherfucker!
you gonna talk shit about my birthstone? i will fight you
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If Shen becomes the strongest champ in the match by winning his lane pretty hard it's so hard for the other team to have a chance to come back. If he's able to 1v1 the other team's best then all they have to do is split push him until they win. If only one person shows up and tries to wave clear he can just kill them, if he doesn't feel like doing that he can just ult to the now 5v4 anywhere else at whim. If the team with shen plays right there isn't even an opportunity for the other team to come back via better teamfighting or comp because the rest of the game is basically 4v5 or worse. Shen doesn't carry by killing everyone, he carries by making the other team have to put up with stupid 4v5 fights for the rest of the game.
I don't think his laning phase is particularly broken. Sure he's safe against a good number of picks, but he doesn't become some DPS monster that kills everything and he's not the strongest duelest in the game, but he doesn't have to be control the entire game because his ult is so ridiculous. If say Riven gets fed up top but your other lanes are doing alright and your team comp is good you can still be alright despite the fact that she can show up and melt everyone's face. If shen ever gets to the point where he can 1v1 anyone on the other team then they are totally screwed instead of just mildly screwed because the options go from split push until somebody comes and then ult to a 4v5 to kill the response to the split push and keep pushing or watch 2 champs show up and ult into the 3v5.
I wish I could comment on Shen, but he really is always banned.
Except his ult tends to be actively harmful in a team fight. A well farmed AD carry punches through the shield before the channel time, so while it can still be useful to facilitate a split push, trading an ultimate to prevent a couple seconds of auto attacks, during which you cannot do damage or CC any targets, is pretty questionable. Galio, by comparison, prevents 100% of damage to his squishies assuming he captures the entire enemy team.
I think the complaining is a bit much, but I wouldn't mind a range nerf so long as it got something else out of it, like a one second channel, or granting Shen's defenses to the target until the shield is broken, or something that would make it more than a near exclusively mid game ability. It's like Cait ult in that it sucks worse than not using it unless used with the utmost of care.
Those couple seconds of autoattacks are exactly what you are trying to prevent. That gives you the time to get there and taunt the enemy.
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Then you put Shen in the Jungle.
E; Oh, and the proper use of a Shen ult in a team-fight where he's present is to ult someone, then immediately cancel the channel.
Why? Why does he need to be buffed to compensate? He would be a perfectly fine top, who leans towards the tanky side of the tanky-bruiser spectrum. His ult would be still be useful.
Are you there going to be situations where if you use it poorly it screws your team? Sure, absolutely. But that's not the point. Jarvan can ruin his entire team with a poor ult, but that's irrelevant to him as a hero. If he could cast that ult from anywhere on the map, it would be a serious, serious problem and you'd probably see him banned every game too.
give his ult 5500 range and a two-second channel
just like pantheon and TF
DONE
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That's all Delph and I have been saying.
Of course, the enemy jungler never showed his face and I'm sure that Shen wasn't very good (did have the new warlord skin though), but that was a hell of a way to end the streak.
tf and panths ults dont require a target to use
Doesn't really matter in this case.
Next game I found out that you can win games at my level without a jungler still. Our last pick guy chose Corki instead of jungles, so he just went top with me. That wasn't great, because he kept the lane megapushed and let Nasus get lots of Qs, but we did eventually down his tower while avoiding ganks through Teemovision. Meanwhile bot (Soraka/Trist) had been feeding a little bit to ganks. But we won midgame teamfights just barely despite being down on farm, and in the endgame our 2.5 AD carries crushed everything. :^:
That's about the same response I just had. I probably should have built Infinity Edge instead of turning my Phage into a Mallet for hilarious five hundred AD crits.