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Today In The [War On Women] : Daniel Tosh - Professional Goosebag

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Posts

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »

    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.

    Religious freedom is a dodge. This new rule in now way infringes on catholics ability to freely practice their religion. The compromise affects insurance companies directly, and if they are their own insurance company they should not have an exemption for medical procedures they disagree with anymore so than one run by JW's could exclude blood transfusions because they personally do not honor them.

    The issue here is the belief that employer based health coverage is not a form of compensation to an employee when it clearly is. And has been codified that way to give employers even more power than they had previously.

    Right. It's not too far removed in thought from religious organizations arguing that First Amendment protections should allow them to demand itemized receipts from their employees to ensure that their money isn't being spent on anything the Church doesn't condone.

    Atomika on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »

    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.

    Religious freedom is a dodge. This new rule in now way infringes on catholics ability to freely practice their religion. The compromise affects insurance companies directly, and if they are their own insurance company they should not have an exemption for medical procedures they disagree with anymore so than one run by JW's could exclude blood transfusions because they personally do not honor them.

    The issue here is the belief that employer based health coverage is not a form of compensation to an employee when it clearly is. And has been codified that way to give employers even more power than they had previously.

    Right. It's not too far removed in thought from religious organizations arguing that First Amendment protections should allow them to demand itemized receipts from their employs to ensure that their money isn't being spent on anything the Church doesn't condone.

    Exactly. And in the case of like say Georgetown and Sandra Fluke its even worse, because they require students to have the health insurance (so the students have to pay for it) and then deny the health insurance covering things they personally don't agree with. So you have to use their insurance and pay for it, and they get to decide what it covers. And for the stupid win, the teachers insurance at georgetown COVERS BIRTH CONTROL WITHOUT THE SAME RESTRICTIONS! *Insert Sam Kinison oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh*

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    MrMister wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    90% of all Americans think birth control is just dandy.

    82% of all American Catholics do, too.

    Link.

    It's hard to reconcile that statistic with the way the US Government bends over backwards to accommodate the Catholic churches desire to deprive it to people. Why can't they just say "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it"?

    It's never been a principle of our government or law that the rights of conscience were held hostage to what the other 90% of people believe. Otherwise, we would have simply told the Jehova's Witnesses to 'deal with it' when their children were punished for refusing to pledge allegiance--after all, 90% of Americans thought saluting the flag was just dandy.

    Whether there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is of course contentious. But it's silly to ignore the fact that religious freedom is, you know, a thing in both our legal and moral frameworks.

    There is a major difference between religious freedom with regards to the pledge of allegiance and religious freedom with regards to denying your employees insurance from providing for perfectly legal medical procedures.

    Your comparison is apples to hand grenades.

    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.
    The pledge of allegiance issue isn't a religious issue; it's a freedom of speech issue.

    The closer analogue would be Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), in which a Native American who was fired for smoking peyote was told he wasn't eligible for unemployment benefits, regardless of the fact that peyote smoking is part of his religion. i.e. he broke the law for his religion, and the government wasn't required to let him do it under the first amendment. A similar standard will apply here, if the author of the opinion (one A. Scalia) remains consistent (anyone taking that bet?).

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    90% of all Americans think birth control is just dandy.

    82% of all American Catholics do, too.

    Link.

    It's hard to reconcile that statistic with the way the US Government bends over backwards to accommodate the Catholic churches desire to deprive it to people. Why can't they just say "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it"?

    It's never been a principle of our government or law that the rights of conscience were held hostage to what the other 90% of people believe. Otherwise, we would have simply told the Jehova's Witnesses to 'deal with it' when their children were punished for refusing to pledge allegiance--after all, 90% of Americans thought saluting the flag was just dandy.

    Whether there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is of course contentious. But it's silly to ignore the fact that religious freedom is, you know, a thing in both our legal and moral frameworks.

    There is a major difference between religious freedom with regards to the pledge of allegiance and religious freedom with regards to denying your employees insurance from providing for perfectly legal medical procedures.

    Your comparison is apples to hand grenades.

    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.
    The pledge of allegiance issue isn't a religious issue; it's a freedom of speech issue.

    The closer analogue would be Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), in which a Native American who was fired for smoking peyote was told he wasn't eligible for unemployment benefits, regardless of the fact that peyote smoking is part of his religion. i.e. he broke the law for his religion, and the government wasn't required to let him do it under the first amendment. A similar standard will apply here, if the author of the opinion (one A. Scalia) remains consistent (anyone taking that bet?).

    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2012

    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    Bullshit, if Thomas didn't step out on the healthcare decision when his wife directly worked in a lobbying firm against it, then none of the conservaderps on the supreme court will step out on a decision they can have go 5/4 against some actual progression in america.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    90% of all Americans think birth control is just dandy.

    82% of all American Catholics do, too.

    Link.

    It's hard to reconcile that statistic with the way the US Government bends over backwards to accommodate the Catholic churches desire to deprive it to people. Why can't they just say "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it"?
    It's never been a principle of our government or law that the rights of conscience were held hostage to what the other 90% of people believe. Otherwise, we would have simply told the Jehova's Witnesses to 'deal with it' when their children were punished for refusing to pledge allegiance--after all, 90% of Americans thought saluting the flag was just dandy.

    Whether there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is of course contentious. But it's silly to ignore the fact that religious freedom is, you know, a thing in both our legal and moral frameworks.

    There is a major difference between religious freedom with regards to the pledge of allegiance and religious freedom with regards to denying your employees insurance from providing for perfectly legal medical procedures.

    Your comparison is apples to hand grenades.
    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.
    The pledge of allegiance issue isn't a religious issue; it's a freedom of speech issue.

    The closer analogue would be Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), in which a Native American who was fired for smoking peyote was told he wasn't eligible for unemployment benefits, regardless of the fact that peyote smoking is part of his religion. i.e. he broke the law for his religion, and the government wasn't required to let him do it under the first amendment. A similar standard will apply here, if the author of the opinion (one A. Scalia) remains consistent (anyone taking that bet?).
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.
    If you think the Catholics on the court are recusing themselves, you are eight kinds of crazy.

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Vault Dweller Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    What is the worst that could happen to Scalia? Honestly? People in slightly greater numbers wake up to him being an ideological douchbag? For that to actually motivate him he'd first need to have a sense of shame.
    Why, oh why do we not have stricter protections against conflicts of interest? -_-;;

    Fallout2man on
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    What is the worst that could happen to Scalia? Honestly? People in slightly greater numbers wake up to him being an ideological douchbag? For that to actually motivate him he'd first need to have a sense of shame.
    Why, oh why do we not have stricter protections against conflicts of interest? -_-;;

    Because the founding fathers never imagined the supreme court could become a political arm. The idea was fairly simple in that they judge laws constitutional or not, only in these hyper partisan times could crazy decisions like Bush V Gore ever happen.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    My wife is Catholic and I attend church with her. There was a flyer in last week's church bulletin that was full of some rather deceptive language.

    It claimed that the mandate means catholic hospitals are going to have start asking patients if they are catholic before admitting them, and that catholic run food pantries will have to ask needy people if they are catholic before helping them.

    From what I can tell, it's all about who they offer insurance coverage to. Basically employees and students. It's got nothing to do with how they do their ministry and service.

    But there was an interesting opinion piece in the Washington Post today. The writer pointed out that only 13 dioces were involved in the lawsuit. There are something like 190+ dioces in the US. So less than 10% decided to lodge the lawsuit.
    I found the piece online: http://www.timesdaily.com/stories/A-Catholic-spring-to-the-right,190930

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2012
    Preacher wrote: »
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    What is the worst that could happen to Scalia? Honestly? People in slightly greater numbers wake up to him being an ideological douchbag? For that to actually motivate him he'd first need to have a sense of shame.
    Why, oh why do we not have stricter protections against conflicts of interest? -_-;;

    Because the founding fathers never imagined the supreme court could become a political arm. The idea was fairly simple in that they judge laws constitutional or not, only in these hyper partisan times could crazy decisions like Bush V Gore ever happen.

    Actually, they originally didn't even have them doing that. It wasn't until 1803, in Marbury v. Madison that the idea of judging laws based on their constitutionality really appeared.

    The initially imagined Supreme Court was extremely weak.

    Shivahn on
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    What is the worst that could happen to Scalia? Honestly? People in slightly greater numbers wake up to him being an ideological douchbag? For that to actually motivate him he'd first need to have a sense of shame.
    Why, oh why do we not have stricter protections against conflicts of interest? -_-;;

    Because the founding fathers never imagined the supreme court could become a political arm. The idea was fairly simple in that they judge laws constitutional or not, only in these hyper partisan times could crazy decisions like Bush V Gore ever happen.

    Actually, they originally didn't even have them doing that. It wasn't until 1803, in Marbury v. Madison that the idea of judging laws based on their constitutionality really appeared.

    The initially imagined Supreme Court was extremely weak.

    Amusingly, Marbury v. Madison is just as partisan as Bush v Gore--the whole case was about the Federalists, who had just lost the Presidency (but not before trying to rush through a bunch of judicial appointments at the last lame-duck minute) suing to force the Democratic Republicans to honor the half-complete midnight appointments. In other words, the minority party trying to wield the Court as a cudgel against their enemies. Rather than be used by either party (which would make the Court look weak), the Supremes elected to find the law the suit was based on unconstitutional. ("Can they do that?" "Apparently.")

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Thanatos wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    The pledge of allegiance issue isn't a religious issue; it's a freedom of speech issue.

    The closer analogue would be Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), in which a Native American who was fired for smoking peyote was told he wasn't eligible for unemployment benefits, regardless of the fact that peyote smoking is part of his religion. i.e. he broke the law for his religion, and the government wasn't required to let him do it under the first amendment. A similar standard will apply here, if the author of the opinion (one A. Scalia) remains consistent (anyone taking that bet?).
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.
    If you think the Catholics on the court are recusing themselves, you are eight kinds of crazy.

    Nor should they.

    MrMister on
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    None of this is based on popular support though, which really is a red herring in this discussion.

    And that's what I was saying.

  • SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    No, because I don't think even Nino is arrogant enough to not recuse himself. If this case makes it that far, there could be serious problems.

    What is the worst that could happen to Scalia? Honestly? People in slightly greater numbers wake up to him being an ideological douchbag? For that to actually motivate him he'd first need to have a sense of shame.
    Why, oh why do we not have stricter protections against conflicts of interest? -_-;;

    Because the founding fathers never imagined the supreme court could become a political arm. The idea was fairly simple in that they judge laws constitutional or not, only in these hyper partisan times could crazy decisions like Bush V Gore ever happen.

    Actually, they originally didn't even have them doing that. It wasn't until 1803, in Marbury v. Madison that the idea of judging laws based on their constitutionality really appeared.

    The initially imagined Supreme Court was extremely weak.

    Amusingly, Marbury v. Madison is just as partisan as Bush v Gore--the whole case was about the Federalists, who had just lost the Presidency (but not before trying to rush through a bunch of judicial appointments at the last lame-duck minute) suing to force the Democratic Republicans to honor the half-complete midnight appointments. In other words, the minority party trying to wield the Court as a cudgel against their enemies. Rather than be used by either party (which would make the Court look weak), the Supremes elected to find the law the suit was based on unconstitutional. ("Can they do that?" "Apparently.")

    It's even more amusing when you realize that Marshall, the man who elevated the lame Supreme Court to an equal branch of the government had absolutely no interest in being the Chief Justice let alone a regular Justice and generally thought the Supreme Court was useless.

    Marbury v. Madison remains the greatest F* you to the political system this country has ever seen.

    gotsig.jpg
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    MrMister wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    90% of all Americans think birth control is just dandy.

    82% of all American Catholics do, too.

    Link.

    It's hard to reconcile that statistic with the way the US Government bends over backwards to accommodate the Catholic churches desire to deprive it to people. Why can't they just say "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it"?

    It's never been a principle of our government or law that the rights of conscience were held hostage to what the other 90% of people believe. Otherwise, we would have simply told the Jehova's Witnesses to 'deal with it' when their children were punished for refusing to pledge allegiance--after all, 90% of Americans thought saluting the flag was just dandy.

    Whether there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is of course contentious. But it's silly to ignore the fact that religious freedom is, you know, a thing in both our legal and moral frameworks.

    There is a major difference between religious freedom with regards to the pledge of allegiance and religious freedom with regards to denying your employees insurance from providing for perfectly legal medical procedures.

    Your comparison is apples to hand grenades.

    As I said, whether a there is a successful claim to religious freedom here is contentious. I am certainly not saying that they do, or even that I know either way. As far as I understand, the law is not simple here. But I can tell you something which doesn't matter, one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. This is why the above-quoted line I was responding to (namely: "look the vast majority of people use birth control, it's 2012 for fucks sake, deal with it?") appears to misunderstand what exactly the issue is.

    Actually no I don't misunderstand anything. It isn't infringing religious freedom to tell a tiny minority of Catholics to STFU and GTFO when they try to use the law to deny important medical coverage to everyone. There's an important distinction between forcing them to use BC and forcing them to not deny it to people. That's what the "it's 2012, deal with it" comment means.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    It all comes out of a twisted idea of what counts as an employee's right.

    The argument lies in the idea that the state will start forcing the church to make a purchase against its beliefs (providing a health plan which includes birth control). Which is ludicrous because of course that is the employee's purchase; you pay into your healthcare and you are trading a service for compensation.

    Not to mention the compromise that was touted at the beginning of the year was constructed specifically to keep from forcing the churches to do anything.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • Michael VoxMichael Vox Registered User regular
    [quote=one way or the other, to whether they're right--the fact that people who have firmly held religious objections to birth control are a tiny minority. [/quote]

    I have to agree. Several years ago my wife and I became Catholic (no longer) and we were SHOCKED the number of Catholics who just didn't care about birth control. And the number of priests as well! Now, we went to a super-double-dog conservative church that did care about all of that (if you're going to convert, why go half way?) but in a "normal" church it was my experience the vast majority could care less whether someone used birth control.

  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    It all comes out of a twisted idea of what counts as an employee's right.

    See, now you're just being silly.

    Employees don't have rights, they should in fact be grateful for getting hired in the first place!

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    And we get a perfect example of why conscience clauses are anti-woman:

    http://www.care2.com/causes/oklahoma-rape-victim-turned-away-from-hospital.html#ixzz1wOowMf60

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    That reminded me about that whole bullshit of "honest rape".

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Which they helpfully link to on that page.


    Jesus christ.

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    AH, you really need to change that headline.

    That hospital had nothing to do with turning down that patient. It's a resource allocation issue, and it happens all the time. I've personally turned patients away from the various hospitals I've worked at who are seeking the same thing, directing them to the proper facilities.

    If there isn't a facility nearby for patients like the girl in the story, that isn't the hospital's fault, it's the state and county's fault for not having the necessary personnel.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    AH, you really need to change that headline.

    That hospital had nothing to do with turning down that patient. It's a resource allocation issue, and it happens all the time. I've personally turned patients away from the various hospitals I've worked at who are seeking the same thing, directing them to the proper facilities.

    If there isn't a facility nearby for patients like the girl in the story, that isn't the hospital's fault, it's the state and county's fault for not having the necessary personnel.

    The idea here is the reason they don't have good staffing are local laws and attitudes that understaff these particular things. And not providing the woman emergency birth control is the shit cherry on this awful sundae.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    AH, you really need to change that headline.

    That hospital had nothing to do with turning down that patient. It's a resource allocation issue, and it happens all the time. I've personally turned patients away from the various hospitals I've worked at who are seeking the same thing, directing them to the proper facilities.

    If there isn't a facility nearby for patients like the girl in the story, that isn't the hospital's fault, it's the state and county's fault for not having the necessary personnel.

    The idea here is the reason they don't have good staffing are local laws and attitudes that understaff these particular things. And not providing the woman emergency birth control is the shit cherry on this awful sundae.

    That's not something Emergency Rooms provide. Like, ever.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    AH, you really need to change that headline.

    That hospital had nothing to do with turning down that patient. It's a resource allocation issue, and it happens all the time. I've personally turned patients away from the various hospitals I've worked at who are seeking the same thing, directing them to the proper facilities.

    If there isn't a facility nearby for patients like the girl in the story, that isn't the hospital's fault, it's the state and county's fault for not having the necessary personnel.

    The idea here is the reason they don't have good staffing are local laws and attitudes that understaff these particular things. And not providing the woman emergency birth control is the shit cherry on this awful sundae.

    That's not something Emergency Rooms provide. Like, ever.

    Is this just in texas? Because that seems like something that wouldn't be universal across the US. Much like not having proper staffing for people to properly handle a rape would seem more like a red state problem than a blue one to be perfectly honest.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    I will admit that I read the title as "Okay Hospital To Rape Victim - 'Fuck You'"

    Of course, now might be the time to rename the thread "Ross learns that his home is still terrible."

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I just can't fathom a young woman fresh off one of the most terrible things that will happen to her being told "Sorry you'll have to go someplace else we dont' have staff to help you." What the fuck? YOU CALL SOMEONE IN YOU COMFORT THAT LADY AND YOU GET HER THE HELP SHE FUCKING NEEDS!

    And then you have Sam Beckett leap into her and beat up her rapist...

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

    I'm pretty sure since the rape or sexual assault can't be confirmed without the SANE nurse, the hospital and doctor's liability protocols would prevent them from handing out emergency meds.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

    I'm pretty sure since the rape or sexual assault can't be confirmed without the SANE nurse, the hospital and doctor's liability protocols would prevent them from handing out emergency meds.

    Wait why would it need to be confirmed to hand out medicine? Are you saying that you can't just take a woman at her word she was raped and supply her with what she wants? That seems extrordinarly fucking retarded.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I mean using that logic are they also not allowed to treat her for possible STD's she may have contracted from the rape? Not allowed to take a blood test to cancel out the fear of AIDS?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    What I don't get is, forget SANE nurses and rape kits and emergency BC and all that noise for a second, it's still pretty terrible that a girl who had very recently been raped gets turned away from a hospital. Like she's just been violently assaulted, she probably has plenty of good old fashioned injuries that could use treating and you're telling me the reason she gets turned away from a hospital is because they don't have trained staff to deal with it? If you don't have people trained to provide possibly life saving medical care at a hospital where the fuck do you have it? Isn't turning away an injured and vulnerable person a violation of the hippocratic oath?

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

    I'm pretty sure since the rape or sexual assault can't be confirmed without the SANE nurse, the hospital and doctor's liability protocols would prevent them from handing out emergency meds.

    Wait why would it need to be confirmed to hand out medicine? Are you saying that you can't just take a woman at her word she was raped and supply her with what she wants? That seems extrordinarly fucking retarded.

    Certainly you can understand there's a big difference between treating a bacterial infection and terminating a viable pregnancy with painful and dangerous drugs, right?

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    What I don't get is, forget SANE nurses and rape kits and emergency BC and all that noise for a second, it's still pretty terrible that a girl who had very recently been raped gets turned away from a hospital. Like she's just been violently assaulted, she probably has plenty of good old fashioned injuries that could use treating and you're telling me the reason she gets turned away from a hospital is because they don't have trained staff to deal with it? If you don't have people trained to provide possibly life saving medical care at a hospital where the fuck do you have it? Isn't turning away an injured and vulnerable person a violation of the hippocratic oath?

    Is that what happened?

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I just can't fathom a young woman fresh off one of the most terrible things that will happen to her being told "Sorry you'll have to go someplace else we dont' have staff to help you." What the fuck? YOU CALL SOMEONE IN YOU COMFORT THAT LADY AND YOU GET HER THE HELP SHE FUCKING NEEDS!

    And then you have Sam Beckett leap into her and beat up her rapist...

    It's all about liability, man. Handwringing alone ain't going to help that situation improve.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

    I'm pretty sure since the rape or sexual assault can't be confirmed without the SANE nurse, the hospital and doctor's liability protocols would prevent them from handing out emergency meds.

    Wait why would it need to be confirmed to hand out medicine? Are you saying that you can't just take a woman at her word she was raped and supply her with what she wants? That seems extrordinarly fucking retarded.

    Certainly you can understand there's a big difference between treating a bacterial infection and terminating a viable pregnancy with painful and dangerous drugs, right?

    Levonorgestrel is a contraceptive, not an abortion. Yes, you can hand out a contraceptive.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah, it's definitely not universal.
    In South Carolina, emergency rooms are required by law to provide emergency birth control pills to young women who have been raped or sexually assaulted if they ask for it.

    And that's in fucking South Carolina. Not exactly a beacon of liberalism.

    I'm pretty sure since the rape or sexual assault can't be confirmed without the SANE nurse, the hospital and doctor's liability protocols would prevent them from handing out emergency meds.

    Wait why would it need to be confirmed to hand out medicine? Are you saying that you can't just take a woman at her word she was raped and supply her with what she wants? That seems extrordinarly fucking retarded.

    Certainly you can understand there's a big difference between treating a bacterial infection and terminating a viable pregnancy with painful and dangerous drugs, right?

    Levonorgestrel is a contraceptive, not an abortion. Yes, you can hand out a contraceptive.

    Levonorgestrel is over-the-counter and rarely used in the clinical setting, therefore is not in most hospitals' formulary.


    Mifeprestone is one that hospitals do usually carry, however, but the side effects are both painful and dangerous.

    Atomika on
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    What I don't get is, forget SANE nurses and rape kits and emergency BC and all that noise for a second, it's still pretty terrible that a girl who had very recently been raped gets turned away from a hospital. Like she's just been violently assaulted, she probably has plenty of good old fashioned injuries that could use treating and you're telling me the reason she gets turned away from a hospital is because they don't have trained staff to deal with it? If you don't have people trained to provide possibly life saving medical care at a hospital where the fuck do you have it? Isn't turning away an injured and vulnerable person a violation of the hippocratic oath?

    Is that what happened?

    Well unless the news article has seriously misrepresented the situation, admittedly that wouldn't exactly be a first, and I don't exactly throw 100% trust behind the source of the story but if you take it at face value it certainly seems that yeah, she got turned away from a hospital without receiving care. Otherwise the story would be "hospital doesn't give rape victim emergency birth control" which while bad, isn't quite as bad as the picture painted here.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Wait, are you saying hospitals don't carry abortifacients or contraceptives that aren't painful and dangerous?

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    What I don't get is, forget SANE nurses and rape kits and emergency BC and all that noise for a second, it's still pretty terrible that a girl who had very recently been raped gets turned away from a hospital. Like she's just been violently assaulted, she probably has plenty of good old fashioned injuries that could use treating and you're telling me the reason she gets turned away from a hospital is because they don't have trained staff to deal with it? If you don't have people trained to provide possibly life saving medical care at a hospital where the fuck do you have it? Isn't turning away an injured and vulnerable person a violation of the hippocratic oath?

    Is that what happened?

    Well unless the news article has seriously misrepresented the situation, admittedly that wouldn't exactly be a first, and I don't exactly throw 100% trust behind the source of the story but if you take it at face value it certainly seems that yeah, she got turned away from a hospital without receiving care. Otherwise the story would be "hospital doesn't give rape victim emergency birth control" which while bad, isn't quite as bad as the picture painted here.

    The fact that this story exists at all makes me suspicious. I'm not seeing a lot of obvious malfeasance here on the hospital's part, and it really wouldn't surprise me if the family of the patient just called the news and tried to sensationalize an issue they didn't really understand.

    That kind of shit happens a lot in ERs. People don't understand that all ERs aren't Level 1 Mega-Facilities that do everything and freak out. I had a lady last year that tried to sue the hospital for not having a hand surgeon in ER to treat her massive laceration, and she refused to see the regular ER doctor despite the fact she was bleeding all over the place.

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