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Voyage of the 3rd [Phalla] - Game Called - Mafia Victory impossible at the present time.

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Posts

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Brings a Magic Infused Gun to a Swordfight. Registered User regular
    So tell me. What was the point of the Pilot roles if if there were enemies in outer-space?

    // Steam: VWinds // LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    It's not even that the village 'learned' that conservative play was the way to go. You could predict this outcome via game theory easily.

    You have:
    Huge barriers to travel
    Small traveling groups
    Low damage output
    High Life
    Zone-only attack range

    This means:
    You are stuck with the people you are next to.
    Any attack you make can be retaliated. People know who is attacking them, so not only will you refrain so they don't start shooting you but you will refrain so they don't vote you. You can't kill anyone anyway, so why bother trying?

    Even if they mafia had a 100% accurate kill beam that instagibbed people, they still wouldn't be able to use it because of the other mechanic limitations. Oh look, there is a huge travel barrier keeping me from getting around the map. It's easy to see where the attack originated from. How many days would it take a mafia in the COM room of one ship to get to a villager target in the COM room of another ship?

    You want high casualty rates? You have low health values, anonymous attacks, and attacks from anywhere. The easier it is to see where a betrayal came from and the higher likelihood of future interaction means a lower chance of betrayal.

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • ExarchExarch Registered User regular
    Yeah a big part of my design when I ran the Bioshock game which had location based kills was that locations give the village a huge source of information, so as the game went on the number of locations needed to dwindle. I did this by having lots of ways for locations to be destroyed, and an inevitable destruction past a certain day threshold.

    Again awesome game, it's only in analyzing it that it seems wonky. While it was running it was super fun and atmospheric.

    No gods or kings, only man.
    LoL: BunyipAristocrat
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Munkus, I didn't mean that it was only this game in which the village observed conservativeness with their actions. One of my previous games, Elementalist, fell easily to the village as a combination of well-organized use of abilities and a lack of mafia organization, and it lacked many of the big issues that were present in this game (low mafia count, far too many locations and player distribution, etc.).

    chirisigtext.png
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    To be fair, I'm not sure the mafia in elementalist were organized to use their abilities to even get the one kill that their ability to coordinate attacks would have guaranteed

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    They certainly weren't. It was kind of tragic, really.

    chirisigtext.png
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Brings a Magic Infused Gun to a Swordfight. Registered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Munkus, I didn't mean that it was only this game in which the village observed conservativeness with their actions. One of my previous games, Elementalist, fell easily to the village as a combination of well-organized use of abilities and a lack of mafia organization, and it lacked many of the big issues that were present in this game (low mafia count, far too many locations and player distribution, etc.).

    To be fair, Elementalist also had Spectrum 5 Infidel as Village Network Head.

    // Steam: VWinds // LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Thanks for running this Gumpy, it was hella complicated and really fun!

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    All the village had to do to win the game was... do nothing. O_o

    I assure you my burning, bitten, almost exploded(thanks kilnaga for not blowing me up), medicated ass begs to differ.

    All I wanted to do was help make people a healthy meal and I end up running through fire shouting "I am not infected! Don't shoot!"

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • KilnagaKilnaga Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Retaba wrote: »
    All the village had to do to win the game was... do nothing. O_o

    I assure you my burning, bitten, almost exploded(thanks kilnaga for not blowing me up), medicated ass begs to differ.

    All I wanted to do was help make people a healthy meal and I end up running through fire shouting "I am not infected! Don't shoot!"

    I never got my clarification, I'm not sure I wouldn't have not blown you up still. >_>

    He did say people could be shot while entering and leaving a room. I was hoping the thing would hit everybody leaving the room and everyone entering it. I was going for maximum targets hit. Also, it was a fire bomb and would have set yet another room in the ship on fire. :P

    If the clarification didn't rule the way I thought it would I told him to just pump all my bullets into MrBlarney as he left for the hanger. >_>

    Kilnaga on
    † We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.†
    DS Friend Code: 2680-9293-7063
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I never got a chance to read the star wars phalla that I helped Assuran with, I just checked in at the start and finish and did some rule lawyering.

    Since I don't usually play these games, I'm sometimes free to spotcheck a phalla ruleset to tell you if you are bonkers.

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Munkus, when are you planning on running your game?

    Please don't say the last week of July.

    I mean, I could play still, but my wife might (re:will) frown upon checking in on Phalla while we're on vacation on the other side of the country. Possibly to the deteriment of my health and/or marriage.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    At this rate, probably August. I'm not gonna run it while I'm in the hospital, and I got surgery scheduled for the 17th.

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Well, I wish you well in your surgery.

  • WietWiet Registered User regular
    I have mixed feelings about this game. On one hand it was very tense and very exciting, on the other hand I was a combat class and I didn't get to fire a gun all game. My role PM turned out spot on, babysitting the fleet was awful. All in all it was great fun though!
    You are a Union Trooper

    The first assault you took part in after joining the Troopers was against the Mad Warlord of Zarn, you single handedly managed to direct your drop pod through an anti-aircraft emplacement and emerged from the wreckage finally. By the time the regular Union army came in the second wave, you're squad had already breached his fortress walls. Now, you're stuck baby sitting a fleet. Fleet duty sucks.

    HP: 180

    Abilities:
    Battle Hardened: Resistance to terror effects
    Shock and Awe: When assaulting an adjacent square, Troopers can sometimes get an additional attack

    Equipment:
    UI 32 Pistol - Ranged Weapon, 10 attack power. Concealed - If you attack another player, they will be unaware who shot them.

    Victory Condition: Ensure the Third Fleet survives to carry out its mission.

    Also @jdarksun I have to confess to a couple things. First off I had been talking to Gumpy for hours because I was trying to find a way to shoot people without it leading back to me. It didn't work, so I actually was searching today, but still. I had been wanting to shoot people for days now, but I couldn't find the opening to get away with it afterward. Secondly, that night where I said I was snackless? Technically true, but I found an SMG instead. I didn't tell you because I still didn't trust you, but then you gave me a shotgun and it turned out to be a better weapon anyway. I was going to give the smg to you tonight to fight zeds/Mr. D, but alas.

    XStly.jpg
  • WietWiet Registered User regular
    Also I bet I was going to find that epic level mount today.

    XStly.jpg
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    Why am I always devil's advocate for the devil


    thanks for hosting Gumps, hope the game resurfaces in some form or another!

  • That Dave FellaThat Dave Fella Registered User regular
    If I was a host I wouldn't let people who take the games personally and then try and ruin it for the other 59 people play in my game.

    That's just petty. Really fucking petty.

    PSN: ThatDaveFella
  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    @Munkus Beaver: I personally apologise for ruining your player experience, wasting your precious time and hope you do not revoke my right to host future games because of it. There is some serious potential here, but I understand it did not live up to your expectations. I had hoped that the fact every villager found himself part of an active ingame community where they all had the option of being involved in how the game played out shows the merit of what I was trying to achieve.





    Now, for everyone else.

    You guys like loot. That was a lesson that was hammered home during this game - You weren't going to be getting involved in any murdering that would allow the target to fire back, or the promise of delicious snacks (Which saved Voids life last night!) left a lot of people spending a fair chunk of the game rummaging. When the project resurfaces, the loot tables will be bigger, better, and will allow you to do much more ambitious stuff.

    Was health too high? With anything but the most basic of weapons (Ye olde faithful UI 38), any player would have gone down with a focussed attack by three of his compatriots. The aim was to remove instant gibbing from the game - Allowing players an opportunity to react, or at least have a fairly good indication if they were putting themselves into a position that they wouldn't survive. Again, the focus was on empowerment. The worst thing about previous big games was that active players could all be extinguished within the first few days, letting the thread languish for the rest of the game while the less active clean up. Activity was not a punishment here, and when it came to players getting involved, it payed off in spades.

    Probably too many spades, as there was just too many things being thrown at me every day. I'm older and more grizzled then I once was, and the 4 hours it took to work through everything was a tad too much. But hey, the interest of the more coding inclined has been piped. This will not be a problem the second time around.

    Now, Mafia - Truth be told, if I'd engineered their start positions so they were guaranteed to get the day 1 conversions off, the rest of the game would have probably clicked into place a lot more quickly. That or I'd removed the restriction for moving and converting in the same go. It sucks that the feds were the main focus in the game, they were never meant to carry the burden of village scrutiny alone. Should have at least made sure all of them started off with decent stealth pistols. But hey, the design was villainy through villainy. The normal Phalla mafia kill is a very arbitrary thing, where the "Bad guys" are simply involved in target picking. There are very rarely any actual plots, and that's something I wanted to foster.

    Pilots - There was something coming later in the game that would have required pilots up in the air. May our loyal airmen return to serve their tours of duty when this threat can be better realised.

    Vote close - A very, very core reason why this entire thing had trouble. I tried to push it too late so my Britishness wasn't too much of an issue for the (majority) of players who lived on the other side of the pond. For the work each narration required, it was unsustainable for me. If I'd moved it forward even an hour, I'd have probably gotten to result PM's without hating every living thing under the sun.

    And role calls? Killed those dead.

    The 3rd Fleet will return, make no mistake everyone.

  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    @smoove operator but all I did was reinforce/repair things and defend innocent villagers! Also, I wasn't anywhere near engineering or the radio room when it went down!

  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    Kilnaga wrote: »
    So...

    Who is the next host up? I'm seriously itching to play more. :(
    Doing Final testing, if all goes well should be able to have signups Mondayish.
    Unless someone else is ready first.



    steam_sig.png
  • WietWiet Registered User regular
    Yeah, the reason I didn't tell you I had another gun was because I was trading my ''only'' gun away to you. If you were feddie it would've been the perfect time to shoot me, since I'd be defenseless for all you'd know. It was pretty much insurance policy rather than trying to actively decieve you for shits and giggles.

    XStly.jpg
  • That Dave FellaThat Dave Fella Registered User regular
    I was never in the radio room! I was just next to it.

    PSN: ThatDaveFella
  • mi-go huntermi-go hunter Once again I'm back in the lab. Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    The funny thing was that I thought the village could never recover from the Bedlaming. I never knew that we were so close to victory...

    Whether this game was balanced or not, I don't really care. I had fun!

    mi-go hunter on
  • That Dave FellaThat Dave Fella Registered User regular
    I had fun messing with the ship but that's all I could do unless I kept all the rooms turned off to manage to steal a ship and fly away.

    PSN: ThatDaveFella
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    The funny thing was that I thought the village could never recover from the Bedlaming. I never knew that we were so close to victory...

    Whether this game was balanced or not, I don't really care. I had fun!

    This is more or less exactly how I felt. The tension, the paranoia, the sense of mounting doom. All top-notch.

    Thanks for running it, @Gumpy -- when the sequel shows up (in whatever form) I'll be signing up in a heartbeat.

    The only thing I didn't love about it (and this is a really minor nitpick) was not knowing my victory condition beyond "survive until the fleet completes its mission". What mission? I had to piece it together through soft networking, and even then I couldn't trust that I really had it right.

    My whole goal sort of turned into "protect the hangar. Don't get bitten." It made me more inclined to just follow orders than if I'd actually known what I was supposed to be accomplishing in the long run.

  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Forgot to say a big thank you to gumpy for running this-definitely felt bad for you having to deal with all those orders and figuring out what to do with warban after the death, wait not a death thing.

    Regardless of balance it was a ton of fun, as evidenced by me telling my girlfriend way to much about it even though she has the vaguest idea of what this is.

    PSN SeGaTai
  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    The only thing I didn't love about it (and this is a really minor nitpick) was not knowing my victory condition beyond "survive until the fleet completes its mission". What mission? I had to piece it together through soft networking, and even then I couldn't trust that I really had it right.

    Yeeeeeea

    This was a dubious call by me. I guess it was aimed for the officers to organise efforts to protect the very (Specific) objectives, while the majority of the village would set themselves on don't get zombied mode.

  • premiumpremium Registered User regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    The only thing I didn't love about it (and this is a really minor nitpick) was not knowing my victory condition beyond "survive until the fleet completes its mission". What mission? I had to piece it together through soft networking, and even then I couldn't trust that I really had it right.

    Yeeeeeea

    This was a dubious call by me. I guess it was aimed for the officers to organise efforts to protect the very (Specific) objectives, while the majority of the village would set themselves on don't get zombied mode.

    I actually really liked the uncertainty this caused, it made me think twice about who I could really trust when the officers/kime revealed. I think it would have been better if they didn't find a way to confirm themselves so soon.

  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Gumpy I think this would be perfect as a huge pbp board game. That would solve the distance problem (since you would be looking at lots of turns rather than shooting for tenish) and would mean all the factions could make long term plans. Make travel between ships a liittle easier, and you'd have a killer space horror game of intrigue

  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    But also this phalla was awesome to read even if I didn't do much

  • LucedesLucedes *heaps mad squawk* Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Wait, and the Officer roles who knew the true win condition were all masoned?

    @Munkus Beaver

    anyone who could tell us the password to the cargo hangar was confirmed.

    we weren't masoned. i did two shout-outs in the thread trying to find the other officers.

    Lucedes on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    <Post-Game Commentary>

    Setting up the average HP such that three to five players could focus fire down another player is fine in most battle games, but with only three to five players in each area tops, kills would be easily traceable and quickly punished if needed, so it encouraged conservative play. It might be better in the next iteration to focus on the conflicts aboard a single ship, rather than multiple vessels, for a more focused gameplay.

    chirisigtext.png
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Thanks again to @gumpy, all things considered it's probably for the best it got cancelled considering I was totally obsessing over the game. It was super fun, even if the poor mafia got pretty boned.

    Also MrBlarney you have an excellent sig

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Also, @saberovereasy was it the mafia who told you to shut up? or was it actually your soft network buddies

    Kana really said "we don't want anyone to know you're working with us. So don't tell people." Had I been thinking better, I just wouldn't have thrown that in on the thread.

    That's a big part of why I thought you were Belmont.

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    But also this phalla was awesome to read even if I didn't do much

    this

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    @Munkus Beaver: I personally apologise for ruining your player experience, wasting your precious time and hope you do not revoke my right to host future games because of it. There is some serious potential here, but I understand it did not live up to your expectations. I had hoped that the fact every villager found himself part of an active ingame community where they all had the option of being involved in how the game played out shows the merit of what I was trying to achieve.

    Hey Gumpy, don't take criticism personally. Sheesh.

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Really fun game, all in all. This really makes me want to run a mini, too. Hopefully I'll be better at running the game than I am at playing them...

  • SaberOverEasySaberOverEasy Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Really fun game, all in all. This really makes me want to run a mini, too. Hopefully I'll be better at running the game than I am at playing them...

    You did fine Spool. It's all about just jumping in and doing it. And then jumping in again :)

    A game like this can be really overwhelming because there's so much you don't know. I was mafia, knew more than most people, had a spectrum cannon piece, AND was fighting off bandwagons. And I still felt like a very very small piece in this whole game.

  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    So what was the deal with bedlam now, revenge on the village out of spite?

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