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Unusual death [chat]

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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    It is what keeps people from lodging complaints about unhealthy work environments, for one

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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    eddy you adorable gengar

    i mad

    wat

    i have to write a paper about labor law and instead i'm talking about it on these damned forums

    just print it out bro

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    Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    oooh

    what I'm doing is constructing a massive election database

    so that's what I should call it

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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Government regulation of business leads to stability and real growth.*

    deregulation leads to instability, economic collapse, and binge purge cycles of false wealth.

    I know which one I favor, but then I am not a Republican because I do not want to live to see America become an actual 3rd world country.


    *Obviously there is a point where regulation stymies growth.

    Regina Fong on
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    That isn't the problem

    The problem is that it's a huge giant gaping loophole for firing minorities, pregnant women and people of a religion you don't like.

    OK this is true. But the solution is not to make it expensive and difficult to fire people who don't fit for your business.

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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    electiontexan, LOOKIE HERE AT ALL THIS DATA, Y'ALL

    35173889.jpg

    488W936.png
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    "I would complain about my boss' racist jokes, but then I run the risk of getting fired because this is an at-will state and my employment is largely dependent on whether or not they like me"

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    The perfect story for the romantics out there.

    There should be a Japanese archetype for this, the opposite of a tsundere. A person who really, genuinely doesn't want your affection and will die to prove it.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?
    I think spool has it right. I mean, the last time we saw a huge decline in organized labor and massive deregulation of the workplace was 1920-1929, and remember how awesome that worked out?

    No, the last time we saw a huge decline in organized labor and complementary massive deregulation was in the latter half of the 70s and into Reagan's prime. Even Carter's Treasury and Fed saw unions as the enemy (massive stagflation fundamentally shaking the notion of Keynes-as-God)

    And that was quite the lovely time in our economy LOL

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    eddy you adorable gengar

    i mad

    wat

    i have to write a paper about labor law and instead i'm talking about it on these damned forums

    copy and paste

    turn it in as a didactic play

    receive credit in both law and english class

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    wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    That isn't the problem

    The problem is that it's a huge giant gaping loophole for firing minorities, pregnant women and people of a religion you don't like.

    OK this is true. But the solution is not to make it expensive and difficult to fire people who don't fit for your business.

    Like the gays

    Psn:wazukki
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    "I would complain about my boss' racist jokes, but then I run the risk of getting fired because this is an at-will state and my employment is largely dependent on whether or not they like me"

    It's not your business why do you get an opinion on the bosses sense of humor?

    Jesus.

    Fucking communists.

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    skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    shaz, you think your av is so cute

    >:{

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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    Corehealer, I am stabbing you in the back and starting my own chaos posse

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    wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    I shouldn't have said it "isn't the problem" it is definitely a big problem.

    Psn:wazukki
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    Because that's a retarded way to run an economy.

    Employers aren't kings.

    They aren't government entities either.

    That business is mine. I built it!
    If I found out you were fucking my wife, I shouldn't have to keep paying you to work at my store.

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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    That isn't the problem

    The problem is that it's a huge giant gaping loophole for firing minorities, pregnant women and people of a religion you don't like.

    OK this is true. But the solution is not to make it expensive and difficult to fire people who don't fit for your business.

    What is an example of a "person who doesn't fit a business"

    Like, not specifics. But, in your mind, what is an example of this

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    AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    eddy you adorable gengar

    i mad

    wat

    i have to write a paper about labor law and instead i'm talking about it on these damned forums

    copy and paste

    turn it in as a didactic play

    receive credit in both law and english class

    No English teacher worth their salt will give you a passing grade for turning in a didactic play.

    Lh96QHG.png
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    That isn't the problem

    The problem is that it's a huge giant gaping loophole for firing minorities, pregnant women and people of a religion you don't like.

    OK this is true. But the solution is not to make it expensive and difficult to fire people who don't fit for your business.

    Like the gays

    Look, you knew you were gay when you went out looking for work.

    It's your fault if anyone finds out you are gay.

    Business business business

    Corporations are people

    People are capital

    Vote Republican!

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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Corehealer, I am stabbing you in the back and starting my own chaos posse

    All according to plan...

    488W936.png
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    Like when you think of this scenario "there is an employee I don't like, and I want to fire them"

    What do you mean when you say you "don't like them"

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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    shaz, you think your av is so cute

    >:{


    u luv me

    poo
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    spool thirty two

    poo
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    wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    Because that's a retarded way to run an economy.

    Employers aren't kings.

    They aren't government entities either.

    That business is mine. I built it!
    If I found out you were fucking my wife, I shouldn't have to keep paying you to work at my store.

    I'm pretty sure that's covered, even in non At Will Employment states.

    Psn:wazukki
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?
    I think spool has it right. I mean, the last time we saw a huge decline in organized labor and massive deregulation of the workplace was 1920-1929, and remember how awesome that worked out?

    No, the last time we saw a huge decline in organized labor and complementary massive deregulation was in the latter half of the 70s and into Reagan's prime. Even Carter's Treasury and Fed saw unions as the enemy (massive stagflation fundamentally shaking the notion of Keynes-as-God)

    And that was quite the lovely time in our economy LOL
    Yes, clearly an anti-worker environment and expansive deregulation leads to nothing but capitalist utopia.

    But hey, why would we want to use anything like observed phenomena when we can just say FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!! and move on?

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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    My employee's bug collection creeps me out

    also when he refers to his wife, but when he invited me over for dinner the third chair was occupied by a pile of cockroaches squirming in manure.

    should I fire him?

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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    Well

    Your "store" isn't you selling things to people and claiming those sales as income.

    Your "store" is a legal fiction, granted to you by the Government, that shields you from a lot of personal liability, gives you preferential tax treatment vs claiming those sales as personal income, and a bunch of other benefits besides.

    You have no innate moral right to that Government Granted Legal Fiction, or those preferential tax breaks, or those host of other things.

    They are given to you because we as a society hope to reap some benefit from giving you those things, and among those benefits is the ability to attach some provisos that benefit society even if they do not directly benefit you, like the ability to dictate the terms by which you may employ people under your Government Granted Legal Fiction in order to promote societal stability.

    tl;dr the government created the entirely legal structure by which you operate that store. You pay a cost in return for that structure. You are not entitled to a free lunch.

    Senjutsu on
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    With a crippled labor movement you get a wage gap that is staggering and continuing to expand since there is no guarantee whatsoever of financial security due to a pervasive culture of fear, so people cling onto whatever substandard job they can snag and live through often blatantly illegal conditions, ossifying social classes and making a joke of the rhetoric of America as socially mobile

    With the massive shift towards economic conservatism in the 80s you get an entrenchment of this ideology that unions are nothing but a labor monopoly and Terrible To The Economy despite empirical evidence otherwise, since they do safeguard against discrimination, wage inequality, unsafe work conditions, etc

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    and spool, to be clear, the gays comment was not a jab at you!

    Psn:wazukki
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    That post got away from me.

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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    Like, theoretically

    Presumably you'd have issues with their attitude and productivity and have reasons backed up by evidence and example to back that up.

    In theory.

    Or you could be a douche who doesn't like the way they look at you in the hall and you get off on power trips.

    488W936.png
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    skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    Like when you think of this scenario "there is an employee I don't like, and I want to fire them"

    What do you mean when you say you "don't like them"

    fak you bug boy

    clean out your desk

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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    yoooo freeeddooooommmm

    i think ur ugly im gonna fire u cuz ur dumb face

    poo
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    AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    Because that's a retarded way to run an economy.

    Employers aren't kings.

    They aren't government entities either.

    That business is mine. I built it!
    If I found out you were fucking my wife, I shouldn't have to keep paying you to work at my store.

    Is that honestly the example you're bringing up? This is what you think is the most likely thing?

    Lh96QHG.png
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.

    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.

    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.

    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?

    Because that's a retarded way to run an economy.

    Employers aren't kings.

    They aren't government entities either.

    That business is mine. I built it!
    If I found out you were fucking my wife, I shouldn't have to keep paying you to work at my store.

    If you can't satisfy your own wife, you are unfit to run a store.

    Children might come into your store.

    What will they think, seeing this broken shell of a man, with ED, and a bald spot, and a dragon shirt, and love handles, and crows feet, and a pony tail?

    It's better to sell the store in this case.

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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Spool I'm certain that you are the only person in chat who doesn't know that "right to work state" is a political sleaze euphemism for "no employee rights, you can be fired at will."

    Funny how all the southern states are fire at will.
    You still get unemployment benefits if you're fired without cause.
    I don't have a lot of problem with the idea that an employer can tell people he doesn't want them working in his business anymore. It's his business!

    Moreover, I don't have a problem with laws that prevent a union from locking out workers who don't pay dues.
    While an employer should certainly have the right to end a term of employment, it shouldn't be over ANYTHING.

    Right to work is bullshit and helps workers not at all.
    But why not? I don't understand the logic here. It's my business. I don't like you anymore. So I don't want to pay you. Get out of my store!

    Why should the government be able to stop me from doing that?
    Because that's a retarded way to run an economy.

    Employers aren't kings.
    They aren't government entities either.

    That business is mine. I built it!
    If I found out you were fucking my wife, I shouldn't have to keep paying you to work at my store.
    "You built it" in the same way I built my public school education.

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    ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    oh yeah @ronya or anyone else

    can you briefly explain why exports are a thing that people focus on

    like, we need to increase our exports! growing trade imbalance! yadda yadda

    it seems like exports would be a symptom of a healthy and productive economy not necessarily a driver. ie. everyone is producing enough for everyone so more and more of the excess starts getting sent abroad for currency.

    but i dont really know shit about this stuff so please enlighten or link articles if you have any

    put it this way:

    an increase in net exports, where driven solely by depreciating your currency faster than your sellers adjust (i.e., so that you are being less currency)

    will result in a loss in national wealth

    but will generally result in greater employment, since making all those exports will probably require more domestic labour.

    so at any given time, a bump in exports is highly attractive

    in the long-run, the argument gets more tricky. Running persistent trade surpluses is a sign that your country is being persistently exploited by foreigners, in the sense of being paid less than you should be, unless you honestly expect to be eventually paid back in full value with interest, through dramatic future foreign currency appreciation (many trade surpluses are so large that this is a little implausible).

    in terms of politics, the popularity of the argument is US-centrism; back when the US had an enormous trade surplus, it moaned about shedding natural wealth to Europe and Asia. Now that it has an enormous trade deficit, it moans about shedding jobs to Europe and Asia.

    For rigor, you could invoke local positive externalities (factories encourage other factories), or trade volatility, or twin deficit theory, and so forth, but actual invocations of trade deficit fears are rarely consistent with these.

    aRkpc.gif
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    AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    This is the dumbest thing.

    Lh96QHG.png
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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    yoooo freedom

    dis is ur store

    imma poop in it

    why shuld da po leez care

    poo
This discussion has been closed.