I think as much as people fearing their bi-sexual partner will be more likely to leave them, people fear that a bi-sexual partner will be unfulfilled dating only a woman or only a man. And that is just as much a symptom of stereotypes and misinformation about bi-sexuality, and the elevation of a few anecdotes to represent the whole. For whatever reason, society as a whole struggles to understand bi-sexuality, and bad information has really inhibited misunderstanding in tremendous ways.
At the end of the day, I think we're all agreed that writing someone off because they're bisexual is pretty silly, but honestly Astaereth, your decision of how to handle it seems to be the least productive way to go about handling it. If there weren't any other red flags, you could send a message to them not bothering to mention it to see if they'd give it a shot, you could ignore them, maybe even strike up just a normal conversation of "hey, I saw you answered this way - is there a reason that you're writing us off?" or whatever. But sending a message to a person you've never spoken to before going "what the hell, why do you fail" about some question on a profile they've probably forgotten about isn't really going to accomplish anything.
Think about when you're answering these questions - typically you're either feeling kinda depressed/lonely (hence why you're answering questions on your profile) or you're bored. Depending on how long the profile has been around, they could have been answered years ago, and they probably don't even remember what or how they answered in the first place. Furthermore, some stuff is really mood and context dependent. Maybe a person who has "Bi and Proud" bumper stickers on their car ran over her puppy the day she answered that question three years ago. :P
Don't get me wrong - it's a part of who you are and you should treat the answer to that question with some degree of weight. But if you're not seeing any other evidence of bigotry, I'd say give them the benefit of the doubt and think about the context under which that might have been answered.
For whatever reason, society as a whole struggles to understand bi-sexuality, and bad information has really inhibited misunderstanding in tremendous ways.
Likely because we have trouble understanding even garden variety sexuality. Even within the last few years we've been finding that it's a lot more plastic than people would think from something we tend to consider a core part of being. And on the more concrete physical side, I swear I read that it was only within the last 5 years someone got the idea to dissect a clitoris to get an actual in depth look at the nerve structure.
I don't disagree, but I will put up with people who have silly inaccurate biases, though I would seek to correct them.
I see them as sort of different than the type of hatred that is applied to men who have sex with men and trans folk have to face. I generally won't have anything to do with people in this category.
not sure how clear the distinctions I am making are.
For whatever reason, society as a whole struggles to understand bi-sexuality, and bad information has really inhibited misunderstanding in tremendous ways.
Likely because we have trouble understanding even garden variety sexuality. Even within the last few years we've been finding that it's a lot more plastic than people would think from something we tend to consider a core part of being. And on the more concrete physical side, I swear I read that it was only within the last 5 years someone got the idea to dissect a clitoris to get an actual in depth look at the nerve structure.
I had that idea way more than five years ago. Problem is, whenever I took out my scalpel, the date tended to end pretty soon afterwards.
At the end of the day, I think we're all agreed that writing someone off because they're bisexual is pretty silly, but honestly Astaereth, your decision of how to handle it seems to be the least productive way to go about handling it. If there weren't any other red flags, you could send a message to them not bothering to mention it to see if they'd give it a shot, you could ignore them, maybe even strike up just a normal conversation of "hey, I saw you answered this way - is there a reason that you're writing us off?" or whatever. But sending a message to a person you've never spoken to before going "what the hell, why do you fail" about some question on a profile they've probably forgotten about isn't really going to accomplish anything.
I sort of assumed he was paraphrasing a not sheetheelish message.
edit: like a bit of humor, kinda like most of the stuff about lacking a smartphone.
For whatever reason, society as a whole struggles to understand bi-sexuality, and bad information has really inhibited misunderstanding in tremendous ways.
Likely because we have trouble understanding even garden variety sexuality. Even within the last few years we've been finding that it's a lot more plastic than people would think from something we tend to consider a core part of being. And on the more concrete physical side, I swear I read that it was only within the last 5 years someone got the idea to dissect a clitoris to get an actual in depth look at the nerve structure.
I had that idea way more than five years ago. Problem is, whenever I took out my scalpel, the date tended to end pretty soon afterwards.
They may have been offended that you were confusing "dissect" with "vivisect."
"bi" also means something different depending on your gender. Bi women are considered kinky; bi men are considered gay. Similarly, stating yourself as bi is ambiguous, not so much for long-term relationship but in terms of current relationship. If I say I am seeking women, and I message a woman, she knows I'm interested in dating. If I say I'm bi, am I actually more interested in men and this is just a friendly conversation? If I say I'm a bi male and I'm messaging gay men, am I actually gay and out of the closet, and am I looking for a relationship?
It's a very ambiguous term to apply to oneself, since it's not entirely clear to others what it means for each individual. From a dating standpoint I don't really like the classification since it doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I'd imagine that's frustrating for someone who is actually bisexual, but I know when I was back on the dating market I didn't message women who identified as bi.
I've pretty much exclusively dated folk on okc listed as bi, except for one listed as gay, who it turns out was bi but mostly into men.
my gripe is more that bi sort if implies an attraction to both ends of the gender spectrum, when really I'm aiming more for the middle.
OKC actually has a section that states who the person is looking for as and what sort of relationships you are looking for with those people. I don't really understand the confusion.
OKC actually has a section that states who the person is looking for as and what sort of relationships you are looking for with those people. I don't really understand the confusion.
You're assuming everyone reads directions and understands words the same way
"bi" also means something different depending on your gender. Bi women are considered kinky; bi men are considered gay. Similarly, stating yourself as bi is ambiguous, not so much for long-term relationship but in terms of current relationship. If I say I am seeking women, and I message a woman, she knows I'm interested in dating. If I say I'm bi, am I actually more interested in men and this is just a friendly conversation? If I say I'm a bi male and I'm messaging gay men, am I actually gay and out of the closet, and am I looking for a relationship?
It's a very ambiguous term to apply to oneself, since it's not entirely clear to others what it means for each individual. From a dating standpoint I don't really like the classification since it doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I'd imagine that's frustrating for someone who is actually bisexual, but I know when I was back on the dating market I didn't message women who identified as bi.
No offense, but that's a lot of goosery, highly compacted into some kind of goose peat, a substance which fuels the fires of my rage for much longer than conventional goosery.
I mean, not only is there an option on the site where I can say "I'm seeking men and women," but anybody regardless of orientation can message you looking for friends even if you have compatible sexualities. They probably won't, though, because this is a dating site so you can probably assume any message comes with the subtext, "Me + U, re: boning: YES." Unless they use one of those other options on the site to say "I am only interested in new friends, not short-term or long-term dating".
As a classification it's not meant to accomplish anything other than to truthfully indicate that someone has an attraction to both sexes. Do you call yourself straight because you want to accomplish something, or because that is the word for the way your attractions work?
How is leaving someone for someone else, or being monogamous, different for bisexuals?
It is just a bunch of bias, particularly reinforced in movies for a time. "Oh hey, if we want to make the villain really devious and villany, we can make them bisexual!" And it works.
Bisexuality has a bunch of stupid baggage that has nothing to do with what it is, sexual preference.
people are going to like what they like. some people want to date people of their religion, some people want to date people of a particular race, some people want to date someone who grew up in their home state, some people want to date virgins, some people want to date someone in a particular age range, some people want to date someone of a particular political party, some people want to date within a particular social class, and some people want to date gay, straight, or bi people.
or the opposite.
preference is what it is. the heart wants what the heart wants. sorry someone else's preference doesn't always work out for you. undoubtedly the shoe is on the other foot at times.
that's life.
+3
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
I reactivated my OKC account to scope out the sitch (I wanna start saying that more often so people know I'm hip) in the city I'm moving to in the next couple of months. All of a sudden, there's a bunch of new interesting people somewhat near me. C'est la vie.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
I think the consensus here isn't that having a specific prejudicial (bad word, but that's what it means) preference for who/what you're looking for is a necessarily evil thing. It can, and sometimes does suck for the excluded party, however.
I mean, people need to have the ability to prejudice in day to day life. It keeps me away from sweet, delicious carbs. It keeps me from driving a POS American car. And perhaps regarding the originating topic at hand, said girl has a bad history with Bi individuals which informs her prejudice. Maybe a friendly attempt to bridge the divide could work but you don't know until you try.
One of my mandatory no-nos on my profile involves hunting. It's 100% prejudicial, but I also know, for me, it's incredibly important.
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mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
edited July 2013
huff huff wheeze
I heard we were talking about bicycles and I came as fast as-
For whatever reason, society as a whole struggles to understand bi-sexuality, and bad information has really inhibited misunderstanding in tremendous ways.
Likely because we have trouble understanding even garden variety sexuality. Even within the last few years we've been finding that it's a lot more plastic than people would think from something we tend to consider a core part of being. And on the more concrete physical side, I swear I read that it was only within the last 5 years someone got the idea to dissect a clitoris to get an actual in depth look at the nerve structure.
Stuff like that kind of pisses me off. Just cut some corpses up already! Basic anatomy shouldn't still be a mystery.
I've pretty much exclusively dated folk on okc listed as bi, except for one listed as gay, who it turns out was bi but mostly into men.
my gripe is more that bi sort if implies an attraction to both ends of the gender spectrum, when really I'm aiming more for the middle.
Not necessarily; for instance, I tend to be primarily attracted to tomboys, girlish boys, and the genderfluid/genderqueer people in between.
riiiiiight... so... I am obviously speaking abstractly about the term and not the folk forced by expedience and dating websites to use it. like, you know what the prefix "bi" means, and how it reinforces the concept of binary genders.
I mean, that sort of attraction was pretty much exactly what I was talking about as myself holding.
grrrrrrr. disagreeable goose!
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited July 2013
Hey guys, I'm 'bi'sexual because I buy sex all the time.
Hurr hurr
Doesn't really translate as well in text
darklite_x on
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
How is leaving someone for someone else, or being monogamous, different for bisexuals?
It is just a bunch of bias, particularly reinforced in movies for a time. "Oh hey, if we want to make the villain really devious and villany, we can make them bisexual!" And it works.
Bisexuality has a bunch of stupid baggage that has nothing to do with what it is, sexual preference.
people are going to like what they like. some people want to date people of their religion, some people want to date people of a particular race, some people want to date someone who grew up in their home state, some people want to date virgins, some people want to date someone in a particular age range, some people want to date someone of a particular political party, some people want to date within a particular social class, and some people want to date gay, straight, or bi people.
or the opposite.
preference is what it is. the heart wants what the heart wants. sorry someone else's preference doesn't always work out for you. undoubtedly the shoe is on the other foot at times.
that's life.
There is a difference between preferring whatever you like, and denying the existence of bisexuals, say.
Having a non-preference for bisexuals isn't a deal breaker, but in my experience it is pretty much as it's a red flag of actual bigotry.
+1
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
How is leaving someone for someone else, or being monogamous, different for bisexuals?
It is just a bunch of bias, particularly reinforced in movies for a time. "Oh hey, if we want to make the villain really devious and villany, we can make them bisexual!" And it works.
Bisexuality has a bunch of stupid baggage that has nothing to do with what it is, sexual preference.
people are going to like what they like. some people want to date people of their religion, some people want to date people of a particular race, some people want to date someone who grew up in their home state, some people want to date virgins, some people want to date someone in a particular age range, some people want to date someone of a particular political party, some people want to date within a particular social class, and some people want to date gay, straight, or bi people.
or the opposite.
preference is what it is. the heart wants what the heart wants. sorry someone else's preference doesn't always work out for you. undoubtedly the shoe is on the other foot at times.
that's life.
There is a difference between preferring whatever you like, and denying the existence of bisexuals, say.
Having a non-preference for bisexuals isn't a deal breaker, but in my experience it is pretty much as it's a red flag of actual bigotry.
i don't really think you should read too much malign intent into what someone is attracted to.
you would probably ask the same of others with regard to what you are attracted to.
Let's say I considered myself straight, but still as queer-accepting and informed.
If I saw a girl that is interested in men, but not bisexual men, it is the bisexuality that is specifically the issue.
That itself is an issue that is going to be hard for me to reconcile or be compatible with this person, even as a friend. There must be some reason for that statement on their profile, and they are going to have a hard time justifying it to me.
You're free to put it out there but it is a serious issue that I'm free to infer from. What exactly is a possible benign intent that I should read into here?
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
is it absolutely wrong for someone to want to date a virgin? or a member of a certain race? or a member of a certain social class? or of a certain national origin? or having had a certain life experience? religion? fetishes? musical preferences? physical appearance?
and who are you to say what other people should be attracted to?
we like what we like. you like what you like. mostly we're not in control of what our attractions are. someone not being into you for whatever reason doesn't mean they're a bad person.
Uh, we do have ethical and legal stances on preferences. So why wouldn't people make their own judgments on preferences?
I already stated how it doesn't need to have anything to do with me or not, and so did @Einzel with an example on hunting. People have their own beliefs and you can think those beliefs make someone a bad person.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I am exclusively attracted to asexual-but-questioning women between the ages of 63 and 65, who enjoy knitting, anime, and playing Spider Solitaire competitively.
Is that absolutely wrong, Irond Will?
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mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
It makes me sad that bi has all this gender-role/binary-presentation-only baggage. And part of me agrees that the binary language of it is problematic. But the other part of me resents that identifying as heterosexual or homosexual doesn't have connotations of precluding attraction to OR(genderqueer, trans, intersexed) people. But then another part of me is like, "the only reason I want to keep calling myself bi is because I don't like the way pan sounds." And then I agree that's pretty superficial, but that I'm going to stick with bi for a little while longer. Maybe I'll switch that label when I get a smartphone.
I am exclusively attracted to asexual-but-questioning women between the ages of 63 and 65, who enjoy knitting, anime, and playing Spider Solitaire competitively.
Is that absolutely wrong, Irond Will?
Nope. What you are attracted to is your own business
I am exclusively attracted to asexual-but-questioning women between the ages of 63 and 65, who enjoy knitting, anime, and playing Spider Solitaire competitively.
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Think about when you're answering these questions - typically you're either feeling kinda depressed/lonely (hence why you're answering questions on your profile) or you're bored. Depending on how long the profile has been around, they could have been answered years ago, and they probably don't even remember what or how they answered in the first place. Furthermore, some stuff is really mood and context dependent. Maybe a person who has "Bi and Proud" bumper stickers on their car ran over her puppy the day she answered that question three years ago. :P
Don't get me wrong - it's a part of who you are and you should treat the answer to that question with some degree of weight. But if you're not seeing any other evidence of bigotry, I'd say give them the benefit of the doubt and think about the context under which that might have been answered.
Likely because we have trouble understanding even garden variety sexuality. Even within the last few years we've been finding that it's a lot more plastic than people would think from something we tend to consider a core part of being. And on the more concrete physical side, I swear I read that it was only within the last 5 years someone got the idea to dissect a clitoris to get an actual in depth look at the nerve structure.
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I don't disagree, but I will put up with people who have silly inaccurate biases, though I would seek to correct them.
I see them as sort of different than the type of hatred that is applied to men who have sex with men and trans folk have to face. I generally won't have anything to do with people in this category.
not sure how clear the distinctions I am making are.
I had that idea way more than five years ago. Problem is, whenever I took out my scalpel, the date tended to end pretty soon afterwards.
I sort of assumed he was paraphrasing a not sheetheelish message.
edit: like a bit of humor, kinda like most of the stuff about lacking a smartphone.
They may have been offended that you were confusing "dissect" with "vivisect."
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Hey, don't be too hard on yourself.
You're not big or old.
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prejudices are kinda bad.
there is also sort of a larger discussion going on about intraLGBT politics, and bi acceptance and advocacy.
It's a very ambiguous term to apply to oneself, since it's not entirely clear to others what it means for each individual. From a dating standpoint I don't really like the classification since it doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I'd imagine that's frustrating for someone who is actually bisexual, but I know when I was back on the dating market I didn't message women who identified as bi.
Again.
DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
my gripe is more that bi sort if implies an attraction to both ends of the gender spectrum, when really I'm aiming more for the middle.
OKC actually has a section that states who the person is looking for as and what sort of relationships you are looking for with those people. I don't really understand the confusion.
You're assuming everyone reads directions and understands words the same way
No offense, but that's a lot of goosery, highly compacted into some kind of goose peat, a substance which fuels the fires of my rage for much longer than conventional goosery.
I mean, not only is there an option on the site where I can say "I'm seeking men and women," but anybody regardless of orientation can message you looking for friends even if you have compatible sexualities. They probably won't, though, because this is a dating site so you can probably assume any message comes with the subtext, "Me + U, re: boning: YES." Unless they use one of those other options on the site to say "I am only interested in new friends, not short-term or long-term dating".
As a classification it's not meant to accomplish anything other than to truthfully indicate that someone has an attraction to both sexes. Do you call yourself straight because you want to accomplish something, or because that is the word for the way your attractions work?
Not necessarily; for instance, I tend to be primarily attracted to tomboys, girlish boys, and the genderfluid/genderqueer people in between.
--
Also, thank god I'm under 30 and have an iPhone. I still might have a chance.
people are going to like what they like. some people want to date people of their religion, some people want to date people of a particular race, some people want to date someone who grew up in their home state, some people want to date virgins, some people want to date someone in a particular age range, some people want to date someone of a particular political party, some people want to date within a particular social class, and some people want to date gay, straight, or bi people.
or the opposite.
preference is what it is. the heart wants what the heart wants. sorry someone else's preference doesn't always work out for you. undoubtedly the shoe is on the other foot at times.
that's life.
I mean, people need to have the ability to prejudice in day to day life. It keeps me away from sweet, delicious carbs. It keeps me from driving a POS American car. And perhaps regarding the originating topic at hand, said girl has a bad history with Bi individuals which informs her prejudice. Maybe a friendly attempt to bridge the divide could work but you don't know until you try.
One of my mandatory no-nos on my profile involves hunting. It's 100% prejudicial, but I also know, for me, it's incredibly important.
I heard we were talking about bicycles and I came as fast as-
Know how some people are like, "grr, voof voof voof, there can be only one"? Well, now everybody is Dog MacLeod.
Stuff like that kind of pisses me off. Just cut some corpses up already! Basic anatomy shouldn't still be a mystery.
riiiiiight... so... I am obviously speaking abstractly about the term and not the folk forced by expedience and dating websites to use it. like, you know what the prefix "bi" means, and how it reinforces the concept of binary genders.
I mean, that sort of attraction was pretty much exactly what I was talking about as myself holding.
grrrrrrr. disagreeable goose!
Hurr hurr
Doesn't really translate as well in text
There is a difference between preferring whatever you like, and denying the existence of bisexuals, say.
Having a non-preference for bisexuals isn't a deal breaker, but in my experience it is pretty much as it's a red flag of actual bigotry.
i don't really think you should read too much malign intent into what someone is attracted to.
you would probably ask the same of others with regard to what you are attracted to.
If I saw a girl that is interested in men, but not bisexual men, it is the bisexuality that is specifically the issue.
That itself is an issue that is going to be hard for me to reconcile or be compatible with this person, even as a friend. There must be some reason for that statement on their profile, and they are going to have a hard time justifying it to me.
You're free to put it out there but it is a serious issue that I'm free to infer from. What exactly is a possible benign intent that I should read into here?
and who are you to say what other people should be attracted to?
we like what we like. you like what you like. mostly we're not in control of what our attractions are. someone not being into you for whatever reason doesn't mean they're a bad person.
I already stated how it doesn't need to have anything to do with me or not, and so did @Einzel with an example on hunting. People have their own beliefs and you can think those beliefs make someone a bad person.
Is that absolutely wrong, Irond Will?
Nope. What you are attracted to is your own business
Hello
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I uh
Have a friend
I'd like you to meet