So I decided to give Thief 3 a shot. Spent 20 minutes or so fucking around with Xpadder to get the controls just the way I want 'em. This should be fun.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
Yeah, and they seem to be trying to make Deus Ex HR two, Thief edition. That being sort of the entire problem. I do not want Deus Ex HR 2: Thief Skin Edition.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
...wait, I just looked at the wiki article and saw Square Enix is one of the companies involved. Are they a part of Eidos now?
I am now thoroughly bummed, as I will have to refrain from buying this, although it just means that I'll be sitting there and replaying Thief 3 over and over again over the next few months just to make up for the pain. Silver linings!
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
You have a thing against square enix?
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
...wait, I just looked at the wiki article and saw Square Enix is one of the companies involved. Are they a part of Eidos now?
I am now thoroughly bummed, as I will have to refrain from buying this, although it just means that I'll be sitting there and replaying Thief 3 over and over again over the next few months just to make up for the pain. Silver linings!
...wait, I just looked at the wiki article and saw Square Enix is one of the companies involved. Are they a part of Eidos now?
I am now thoroughly bummed, as I will have to refrain from buying this, although it just means that I'll be sitting there and replaying Thief 3 over and over again over the next few months just to make up for the pain. Silver linings!
Right so you're annoyed at Thief 4 because it's not 'Thiefy enough' and your go-to Thief game is Deadly Shadows? I call bullshit. I hate to pull the 'real fans' card but real Thief fans would have replayed Metal Age, because it is the best one by a mile. Everyone knows that.
I'm willing to give Thief 4 a chance. The developer isn't trying to make it Human Revolution in a new skin. They learned all their lessons from rebooting that franchise and let Thief 4 sit in the brainstorming cooker for three fuckin' years.
If they wanted to crank out a brand-name tie in game then why wait until now? Why swap platforms halfway through and why do any of the things they've said they're doing with the game as it is?
In fact, if they wanted to do a brand-name cash in, why pick Thief at all? It's one of the least successful good game series ever made, the Thief name carries almost zero cache in the marketplace except among the hardcore fans. Deus Ex was far more popular and was nestled in the already super mainstream cyberpunk/sci-fi action genre.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
The developer isn't trying to make it Human Revolution in a new skin. They learned all their lessons from rebooting that franchise and let Thief 4 sit in the brainstorming cooker for three fuckin' years.
Has this been linked before? Supernatural elements will be gone and you can use bullet time or whatever "Focus" is to own guards in a kickass manner. Because that's what Thief is about. Owning motherfuckers.
Sounds like it is borrowing an awful lot from Human Revolution's augmentations suite. That's practically a checklist of vision modes, movement enhancements and combat upgrades.
...
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The developer isn't trying to make it Human Revolution in a new skin. They learned all their lessons from rebooting that franchise and let Thief 4 sit in the brainstorming cooker for three fuckin' years.
Has this been linked before? Supernatural elements will be gone and you can use bullet time or whatever "Focus" is to own guards in a kickass manner. Because that's what Thief is about. Owning motherfuckers.
Sounds like it is borrowing an awful lot from Human Revolution's augmentations suite. That's practically a checklist of vision modes, movement enhancements and combat upgrades.
...
Yeah you just proved my point exactly. They learned how to update a franchise while remaining faithful to the original games. Modern games use modern technology and therefore carry with them modern expectations. The sandbox utilities I listed are a) all necessary for a modern update to an old franchise like Thief (all were used in Bioshock, for example) and b) all thematically relevant to Thief anyway. Garrett is literally augmented already.
Which is to say nothing of the things they have kept true to the original anyway, like the first person perspective or the character of Garrett himself.
edit: To clarify. Deus Ex 1 and Thief 1 come from the same era, technologically speaking. So they carry with them the same hallmarks of design associated with that time. Sparse environments, narrow sightlines, very few NPCs and weak AI.
So when rebooting these titles, the improvements that come from modern technology give them both the same set of problems the originals didn't have to resolve. Dense environments, vast open areas, heavily populated zones and far more advanced AI. So the solutions to these changes are similar and relate to each issue. Dense environments reduce visual distinction, so vision modes highlight objects amid the clutter. Vast open areas mean increased traversal time, so they add variety to character movement. And so on.
They learned from rebooting Deus Ex what gameplay functionality they had to incorporate to combat these issues and how to reconcile these things with the tone and style of the original games. Everything they have described about Thief 4 suggests they are doing the same. Creating a reason for these systems to exist and balancing them with the affinity they have towards the original title.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
Totally do, they destroyed Gothic, Dungeon Siege, and Deus Ex for me. It's not that they're a shitty company, it's just that they have their own type of "style" and I absolutely hate that style with a passion.
Again, it's just an opinion. Basically, anything that Square Enix makes, I just can't play, although, I must admit that I did have a really good time with Mini Ninjas, but that's an exception.
Also, I'm not hating due to being a "true" Thief fan or anything. I'm not the kind of person that looks at changes and automatically assumes that they're bad. I just loved the other titles, that I've mentioned above, and the changes that came about because of Square Enix were changes I did not like in the slightest bit. Unfortuantely, logically, this just means that Thief won't be my type of game. A great game it will be, just not for ME.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
Interesting. So we both use the same evidence and interpret it more or less 100% opposite. The reasoning for my interpretation would require me to demolish yours (I explicitly reject A and B as necessary and needed, for example), but I don't really see any reason to do that since it would quickly go off the deep end into off topic territory about general game development. I think you and I are not going to arrive at any reasonable kind of agreement here and I don't really want to drag this out. So lets just agree to disagree.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
Isn't it amazing that two people can look at the same thing and reach completely different conclusion?
Welcome to my career as an auditor
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
It stops being amazing after you've seen enough academics arguing with each other. On that note, I'm not being huffy or anything here Scarab. I'm calmly attempting to disengage inoffensively so if I have annoyed you in any way in that attempt I apologise in advance.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
Totally do, they destroyed Gothic, Dungeon Siege, and Deus Ex for me. It's not that they're a shitty company, it's just that they have their own type of "style" and I absolutely hate that style with a passion.
Again, it's just an opinion. Basically, anything that Square Enix makes, I just can't play, although, I must admit that I did have a really good time with Mini Ninjas, but that's an exception.
Also, I'm not hating due to being a "true" Thief fan or anything. I'm not the kind of person that looks at changes and automatically assumes that they're bad. I just loved the other titles, that I've mentioned above, and the changes that came about because of Square Enix were changes I did not like in the slightest bit. Unfortuantely, logically, this just means that Thief won't be my type of game. A great game it will be, just not for ME.
And you're sure that S-E, and only S-E is responsible for those changes because...?
I mean, it'd make more sense that you'd not be jazzed about this game because you didn't like DX:HR and they're from the same developer, but you automatically went to the "everything Square touches turns to shit" route. That's kind of shooting crooked, dude.
No worries. The fact that you're in here talking about Thief means we have more in common than in distinction.
Of course, Thief 4 could be everything you described. It's just a matter of faith. I liked Human Revolution. A lot. I liked Dishonored more. So I'm willing to believe the formula can work in a modern game.
But hey. I've been on the other side of something like this. I was one of those NMA fanatics when Fallout 3 was announced. I wanted to hate that game so much just for existing.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
hah, try arguing with a Big Boss that what you're telling them is true and they have to do things the way you say they do :P
Assurance services are awesome that way.
I do see valid points from both sides here. I think this will be a fantastic game, and I will absolutely definitely watch a bunch of YouTube playthroughs of it, like I did with Human Revolution. Shoot, I will probably pick it up at some point anyway, because...you know...it's Thief! The name alone deserves at least a bargain-price purchase from me
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
You sort of jumped straight from reasoned opinions to gut instinct rejection there MordaRazgrom. I don't know if you noticed that you are doing it but it was pretty explicit.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Square-Enix gave Edios Montreal the time and money to make the Deus Ex they wanted when EA or Activision would have flushed the entire team and project down the drain on acquisition.
Am I the only one disappointed they didn't continue the series with making the girl that tries to pickpocket him at the end of 3 the protagonist? It seemed like the perfect opportunity for a lead change.
Not really. I mean, Garrett is one of my favorite protagonists ever, so I'm glad he's back...
at the same time I keep thinking they could totally pull a Metal Gear Solid 2 on us and then use that girl as the actual main character.
Okay, so I'm not the only one who thinking/dreading they might do this... Even if they didn't, I would be surpised if that girl didn't even get a mention.
I took that as a call back to the opening cutscene of Thief 1. It was bringing it full circle and reminding us of how Garrett became a thief in the first place. I didn't see it as some obvious setup for another protagonist.
I mean, a female protagonist? In a modern, high budget triple ay video game? You must be joking, right?
Oh at the time it was certainly no more than a "come full-circle" reference to the opening of Thief. I don't think it was intended to setup a new protagonist in the least.
I'm just saying they COULD take that and do a number on us all and use that as a springboard to a new one.
I don't see it happening but...
You sort of jumped straight from reasoned opinions to gut instinct rejection there MordaRazgrom. I don't know if you noticed that you are doing it but it was pretty explicit.
Yes, I did that, and I know it's pretty harsh. You were actually witness to my lightbulb moment when I saw Square Enix on there. In my defense, I am NOT bashing the game one bit. I have full faith that they will do an awesome title, it's just not a title that is good for ME. I am still a huge fan of Thief, and Square Enix will earn forever cool points with me if they manage to work the word "taffer" into the opening cinematic for the game, it's just that...you know, opinions, man!
I am a huge believer in company styles and governance. Anything that Blizzard makes is a guaranteed sell for me (outside of anything with R and T and S in the genre), because I like their style and am confident that they will make games that I will love. Square Enix is a company that is very true to its fans, and I have zero doubt that they will make a fantastic game...for them.
When it comes to games, I tend to go with gut instinct a lot. Also, please be aware that my own personal rejection, in no way negates whatever I was saying about the game before. I'll repeat that there is no such thing as a TRUE Thief fan or whatever and being all "BLARG ITS DIFFERENT SO IT SUCKS" is a terrible state of being. My rejection solely resides with the fact that I know what Square Enix does, and I don't like it.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
To be honest I don't think you or any of us have any idea what influence Square-Enix had on the development of Human Revolution, if any.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
You are done with Square because of Human Revolution? Dear gods, what did you think of Invisible War?
So I've never played a Thief game before (I know, I know), but I feel like I should start. I've got Thief Gold and Deadly Shadows sitting in my Steam library. Any advice where I should start? And are there any particular mods I should be rolling with while I'm at it?
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
being all "BLARG ITS DIFFERENT SO IT SUCKS" is a terrible state of being. My rejection solely resides with the fact that I know what Square Enix does, and I don't like it.
I don't think you are the one who needs to be told this but I would like to point out one more time that when I say "I don't think it will be Thief" the implication "And therefore it sucks" is not an appropriate reading of what I am saying because I am far too literal for that. If I meant that I would say it. I wouldn't bother implying it.
What I mean is "I don't think this will have the same super hardcore approach to the stealth where straining your ears and eyes to make sure nothing is near you is not just important but a matter of life and death and that is a shame but I'll buy and play the game anyway and I am sure it will be fun in its own way."
And frankly any game that has deus ex style takedowns cannot have that feeling of desperation by default. The ability negates it. It does not matter that you can "just not use it" because the beauty of thief was it forced you to learn to stealth really well, it forced you to listen, think and be patient, because anything else was stupid. In that sense it caused you to progress in those skills further than handicapping yourself by choice could or can, because you had to do it all the time from the start.
I understand the need for concessions in order to sell games. I understand the desire to implement systems you know works to push units. Regardless I remain disappointed that they didn't put this energy into improving the stealth so that this direct ability isn't even needed, you don't need to design it in, it doesn't need to be there, because the abilities they focused on empower Garret to never get caught in the first place.
It's a complex feeling.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
To be honest I don't think you or any of us have any idea what influence Square-Enix had on the development of Human Revolution, if any.
Earlier I posted that whenever S-E touched a game, I didn't like the results. They took over on development of Gothic for Risen 2, they took Dungeon Siege 3 in a direction that I found absolutely not palatable, and I did not like what they did with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I wasn't a fan of Tomb Raider back in the day, so I can't really say if I would or wouldn't like the changes they made. It's just opinion, guys, I keep reiterating that Square Enix is NOT a shit company, and I never meant to imply that, it's just that, I've seen that whenever they're involved with a game, I, myself, personally, do not like the results.
I'm here though, and that's the last of any bit of negativity that you'll hear out of me. From now on, I'll just talk about the wonders of Thief and am willing to just discuss the changes to Thief 4.
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they took Dungeon Siege 3 in a direction that I found absolutely not palatable
I don't know what you thought Dungeon Siege was before... but uh... uhhh
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
Dungeon siege was one of my favorite games, the second one was just amazing, I thought. The third one took all the fun stuff out
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To be honest I don't think you or any of us have any idea what influence Square-Enix had on the development of Human Revolution, if any.
Earlier I posted that whenever S-E touched a game, I didn't like the results. They took over on development of Gothic for Risen 2, they took Dungeon Siege 3 in a direction that I found absolutely not palatable, and I did not like what they did with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I wasn't a fan of Tomb Raider back in the day, so I can't really say if I would or wouldn't like the changes they made. It's just opinion, guys, I keep reiterating that Square Enix is NOT a shit company, and I never meant to imply that, it's just that, I've seen that whenever they're involved with a game, I, myself, personally, do not like the results.
I'm here though, and that's the last of any bit of negativity that you'll hear out of me. From now on, I'll just talk about the wonders of Thief and am willing to just discuss the changes to Thief 4.
Can't say I'm thrilled with reading about these changes, but, they do make sense. Don't forget that Garrett is an augmented human (his mechanical eye), so to bring this game more in line with Deus Ex...well. I've never played Human Revolution because, in my opinion, Square Enix ruins games (don't jump on me, it's just my opinion). However, I have heard a lot of praise for it, so they must have done it right. Logically, this means that Thief will be pretty cool for most folks also.
Also, just because they removed the blackjack and all that, doesn't mean that they've removed those gameplay aspects. You may not shoot a water arrow at a torch, but you'll still have ways to make with the darkness. Blackjack...well I limited my use of it anyway, so no big loss to me, I'll just have to get creative. It is disturbing to read the guy say that players don't like replaying the same level over and over...bah, still, in all honesty, Thief isn't something that received a huge following, I mean people still claim that Metal Gear was the one that invented the stealth gameplay, so Thief is kind of unknown.
They'll add shiny and awesome to it in order to appeal to a broader audience. Sweaty nerds like me will probably be disappointed with some of the changes, but I'm already so used to being disappointed with games that it's kind of a natural thing nowadays. My best games of current times usually are "games that didn't disappoint me as much as I thought they would."
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
I know the feeling. I didn't like prototype 2 as much as 1 for the same reason. It was objectively a better game but I didn't enjoy it as much and felt quite weak compared to what I could do in prototype 1.
I hated the movement nerfing and the limiting of his potential.
It's all up to the individual really. I don't really understand a lot of people's opinions about what is and is not fun, but I don't hold it against them or think they are less for it. I just accept that I can't understand them.
@Foefaller: A bias is, by definition, difficult to fully rationalise, since it's an unconscious process. He's already tried to unravel it and apologise for it after being made aware of it, please leave him alone now and stop picking on every word. All that matters is how he proceeds from now on.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Dungeon Siege 3 is probably one of the worst games of this generation I have ever played. Everything about it was incredibly poorly designed in one way or another, from the combat, to the enemies design, to some of the boss fights (fucking Old Dapper Gent) and so on. Human Revolution was probably one of the best I have played, barring the ridiculous boss fights and I felt it lived up to (if not surpassed) the original entirely. Square's treatment of Tomb Raider has been fantastic as well.
Frankly, I can't see how they have stuffed anything up because the only game I haven't played out of what they released recently was Hitman.
Back to Thief plot. It's been a while so I had to refresh myself, but didn't (Deadly Shadows ending spoiler)
The Final Glyph erase all magic from the world? Is it not then reasonable that any sequel would have no magic?
My memory of it is that it only erased the glyph magic that Keepers use, and that there is still at least some sort of supernaturalness going on; Right after you see the now mortal crone try and fail to use glyphs you get two scenes where the magic artifacts you stole from the Hammers and Pagans return themselves to who they belong to (at least, it would be seriously out of character for Geralt Garret to return them himself, so I suspect magic was involved
Back to Thief plot. It's been a while so I had to refresh myself, but didn't (Deadly Shadows ending spoiler)
The Final Glyph erase all magic from the world? Is it not then reasonable that any sequel would have no magic?
My memory of it is that it only erased the glyph magic that Keepers use, and that there is still at least some sort of supernaturalness going on; Right after you see the now mortal crone try and fail to use glyphs you get two scenes where the magic artifacts you stole from the Hammers and Pagans return themselves to who they belong to (at least, it would be seriously out of character for Geralt to return them himself, so I suspect magic was involved
Been playing the Witcher lately, have you?
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure that Garrett would ever keep anything that was of no monetary value, and the artifacts are kind of the definition of loot that can't be sold. They're far too hot for any fence to move. Due to that, I could totally see Garrett returning them to save his skin from constant threat of pursuit and not-leaving-alone by the pagans and hammers. Their crusade would interfere with his thiefiness.
Also, I said I never played human revolution, but I've watched the game through live streams and YouTube. It's what I do for games I have no interest in playing.
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I'm not sure that Garrett would ever keep anything that was of no monetary value, and the artifacts are kind of the definition of loot that can't be sold. They're far too hot for any fence to move. Due to that, I could totally see Garrett returning them to save his skin from constant threat of pursuit and not-leaving-alone by the pagans and hammers. Their crusade would interfere with his thiefiness.
Only reason I don't think that's the case is because
One of the relics, The Crown, was something Geralt Garret found and stole in an earlier mission, only to steal it yet again from the museum his fence sold it to when he realised he needed it for the final glyph. Plus, I'm sure Garret has a healthy enough sence of irony that he would have fenced it off a second time if he was given half a chance...
Plus, how do you think The Eye from Thief: DP got into the same museum in the first place?
Also, I said I never played human revolution, but I've watched the game through live streams and YouTube. It's what I do for games I have no interest in playing.
Fair enough, forget I said anything.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
Very fair point. Due to certain liberties we can take with Garrett's character, I've always viewed him as utterly logical and pragmatic to a fault. It's a little contradictory to what he's entangled into in the games, but I've viewed him as the hero who doesn't want to be and who is dragged kicking and screaming into the realm of Big Care.
I seriously need to go replay Deadly Shadows, I meant to, even found the disk, but my brother in law graciously spent all Saturday (my dedicated "game day") farming epic weapons in Borderlands 2 so Thief is, sadly, still sitting there in the box. That shall be fixed ASAP.
Edit: I apologize for derailing thread into merits of S-E, it was not my intent, although looking back, I cn see how I used language that is a bit chafing to folks.
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Hopefully all the Deux Ex comparisons are coming out to try and explain what Thief is like to a lay audience. Once they've got the attention of a group of people who aren't solely ex-Thief fans, then they can start being specific about how they've improved stealth and AI and all the stuff we want to know.
And while I'm wishing, I'd like DLC where Garrett infiltrates famous levels from other video games to steal shit.
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I am now thoroughly bummed, as I will have to refrain from buying this, although it just means that I'll be sitting there and replaying Thief 3 over and over again over the next few months just to make up for the pain. Silver linings!
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Square-Enix bought Eidos four years ago.
Right so you're annoyed at Thief 4 because it's not 'Thiefy enough' and your go-to Thief game is Deadly Shadows? I call bullshit. I hate to pull the 'real fans' card but real Thief fans would have replayed Metal Age, because it is the best one by a mile. Everyone knows that.
I'm willing to give Thief 4 a chance. The developer isn't trying to make it Human Revolution in a new skin. They learned all their lessons from rebooting that franchise and let Thief 4 sit in the brainstorming cooker for three fuckin' years.
If they wanted to crank out a brand-name tie in game then why wait until now? Why swap platforms halfway through and why do any of the things they've said they're doing with the game as it is?
In fact, if they wanted to do a brand-name cash in, why pick Thief at all? It's one of the least successful good game series ever made, the Thief name carries almost zero cache in the marketplace except among the hardcore fans. Deus Ex was far more popular and was nestled in the already super mainstream cyberpunk/sci-fi action genre.
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Yeah you just proved my point exactly. They learned how to update a franchise while remaining faithful to the original games. Modern games use modern technology and therefore carry with them modern expectations. The sandbox utilities I listed are a) all necessary for a modern update to an old franchise like Thief (all were used in Bioshock, for example) and b) all thematically relevant to Thief anyway. Garrett is literally augmented already.
Which is to say nothing of the things they have kept true to the original anyway, like the first person perspective or the character of Garrett himself.
edit: To clarify. Deus Ex 1 and Thief 1 come from the same era, technologically speaking. So they carry with them the same hallmarks of design associated with that time. Sparse environments, narrow sightlines, very few NPCs and weak AI.
So when rebooting these titles, the improvements that come from modern technology give them both the same set of problems the originals didn't have to resolve. Dense environments, vast open areas, heavily populated zones and far more advanced AI. So the solutions to these changes are similar and relate to each issue. Dense environments reduce visual distinction, so vision modes highlight objects amid the clutter. Vast open areas mean increased traversal time, so they add variety to character movement. And so on.
They learned from rebooting Deus Ex what gameplay functionality they had to incorporate to combat these issues and how to reconcile these things with the tone and style of the original games. Everything they have described about Thief 4 suggests they are doing the same. Creating a reason for these systems to exist and balancing them with the affinity they have towards the original title.
Totally do, they destroyed Gothic, Dungeon Siege, and Deus Ex for me. It's not that they're a shitty company, it's just that they have their own type of "style" and I absolutely hate that style with a passion.
Again, it's just an opinion. Basically, anything that Square Enix makes, I just can't play, although, I must admit that I did have a really good time with Mini Ninjas, but that's an exception.
Also, I'm not hating due to being a "true" Thief fan or anything. I'm not the kind of person that looks at changes and automatically assumes that they're bad. I just loved the other titles, that I've mentioned above, and the changes that came about because of Square Enix were changes I did not like in the slightest bit. Unfortuantely, logically, this just means that Thief won't be my type of game. A great game it will be, just not for ME.
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Welcome to my career as an auditor
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And you're sure that S-E, and only S-E is responsible for those changes because...?
I mean, it'd make more sense that you'd not be jazzed about this game because you didn't like DX:HR and they're from the same developer, but you automatically went to the "everything Square touches turns to shit" route. That's kind of shooting crooked, dude.
Of course, Thief 4 could be everything you described. It's just a matter of faith. I liked Human Revolution. A lot. I liked Dishonored more. So I'm willing to believe the formula can work in a modern game.
But hey. I've been on the other side of something like this. I was one of those NMA fanatics when Fallout 3 was announced. I wanted to hate that game so much just for existing.
Assurance services are awesome that way.
I do see valid points from both sides here. I think this will be a fantastic game, and I will absolutely definitely watch a bunch of YouTube playthroughs of it, like I did with Human Revolution. Shoot, I will probably pick it up at some point anyway, because...you know...it's Thief! The name alone deserves at least a bargain-price purchase from me
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Oh at the time it was certainly no more than a "come full-circle" reference to the opening of Thief. I don't think it was intended to setup a new protagonist in the least.
I'm just saying they COULD take that and do a number on us all and use that as a springboard to a new one.
I don't see it happening but...
Yes, I did that, and I know it's pretty harsh. You were actually witness to my lightbulb moment when I saw Square Enix on there. In my defense, I am NOT bashing the game one bit. I have full faith that they will do an awesome title, it's just not a title that is good for ME. I am still a huge fan of Thief, and Square Enix will earn forever cool points with me if they manage to work the word "taffer" into the opening cinematic for the game, it's just that...you know, opinions, man!
I am a huge believer in company styles and governance. Anything that Blizzard makes is a guaranteed sell for me (outside of anything with R and T and S in the genre), because I like their style and am confident that they will make games that I will love. Square Enix is a company that is very true to its fans, and I have zero doubt that they will make a fantastic game...for them.
When it comes to games, I tend to go with gut instinct a lot. Also, please be aware that my own personal rejection, in no way negates whatever I was saying about the game before. I'll repeat that there is no such thing as a TRUE Thief fan or whatever and being all "BLARG ITS DIFFERENT SO IT SUCKS" is a terrible state of being. My rejection solely resides with the fact that I know what Square Enix does, and I don't like it.
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Rad, thank you!
You might know me as D'Brickashaw on Steam.
I don't think you are the one who needs to be told this but I would like to point out one more time that when I say "I don't think it will be Thief" the implication "And therefore it sucks" is not an appropriate reading of what I am saying because I am far too literal for that. If I meant that I would say it. I wouldn't bother implying it.
What I mean is "I don't think this will have the same super hardcore approach to the stealth where straining your ears and eyes to make sure nothing is near you is not just important but a matter of life and death and that is a shame but I'll buy and play the game anyway and I am sure it will be fun in its own way."
And frankly any game that has deus ex style takedowns cannot have that feeling of desperation by default. The ability negates it. It does not matter that you can "just not use it" because the beauty of thief was it forced you to learn to stealth really well, it forced you to listen, think and be patient, because anything else was stupid. In that sense it caused you to progress in those skills further than handicapping yourself by choice could or can, because you had to do it all the time from the start.
I understand the need for concessions in order to sell games. I understand the desire to implement systems you know works to push units. Regardless I remain disappointed that they didn't put this energy into improving the stealth so that this direct ability isn't even needed, you don't need to design it in, it doesn't need to be there, because the abilities they focused on empower Garret to never get caught in the first place.
It's a complex feeling.
Earlier I posted that whenever S-E touched a game, I didn't like the results. They took over on development of Gothic for Risen 2, they took Dungeon Siege 3 in a direction that I found absolutely not palatable, and I did not like what they did with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I wasn't a fan of Tomb Raider back in the day, so I can't really say if I would or wouldn't like the changes they made. It's just opinion, guys, I keep reiterating that Square Enix is NOT a shit company, and I never meant to imply that, it's just that, I've seen that whenever they're involved with a game, I, myself, personally, do not like the results.
I'm here though, and that's the last of any bit of negativity that you'll hear out of me. From now on, I'll just talk about the wonders of Thief and am willing to just discuss the changes to Thief 4.
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I don't know what you thought Dungeon Siege was before... but uh... uhhh
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
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I hated the movement nerfing and the limiting of his potential.
It's all up to the individual really. I don't really understand a lot of people's opinions about what is and is not fun, but I don't hold it against them or think they are less for it. I just accept that I can't understand them.
@Foefaller: A bias is, by definition, difficult to fully rationalise, since it's an unconscious process. He's already tried to unravel it and apologise for it after being made aware of it, please leave him alone now and stop picking on every word. All that matters is how he proceeds from now on.
Frankly, I can't see how they have stuffed anything up because the only game I haven't played out of what they released recently was Hitman.
Been playing the Witcher lately, have you?
Also, I said I never played human revolution, but I've watched the game through live streams and YouTube. It's what I do for games I have no interest in playing.
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Only reason I don't think that's the case is because
Plus, how do you think The Eye from Thief: DP got into the same museum in the first place?
Fair enough, forget I said anything.
I seriously need to go replay Deadly Shadows, I meant to, even found the disk, but my brother in law graciously spent all Saturday (my dedicated "game day") farming epic weapons in Borderlands 2 so Thief is, sadly, still sitting there in the box. That shall be fixed ASAP.
Edit: I apologize for derailing thread into merits of S-E, it was not my intent, although looking back, I cn see how I used language that is a bit chafing to folks.
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And while I'm wishing, I'd like DLC where Garrett infiltrates famous levels from other video games to steal shit.
Dang, this shit is difficult.