I wasn't aware there were so many Facebook defenders around. Like, genuinely. Some people are positively leaping to shield the Cult of Zuckerburg with zeal. Learn something new every day.
Or I'm just opposing people being stupid and hyperbolic.
I'm not specifically nervous about Facebook or data mining actually. I'm nervous in general that one content provider has purchased the Rift. I'd be equally nervous if EA, Activision, Nintendo, Sony, MS, etc purchased them - it's a great piece of equipment and it worries me that the open nature of it will start to go away. Valve would probably be the only company that would have made me comfortable.
Also Notch's opinion seems a bit overboard, but I do wonder if other companies (Valve comes to mind) might be more hesitant to support something tied to Facebook.
"As for exactly how Facebook will monetize Oculus, CEO Mark Zuckerberg said on the call to investors, "We're clearly not a hardware company. We're not going to try to make a profit off of the hardware long-term...but if we can make this a network where people are communicating, and buying virtual goods, and there might be ads down the line...that’s where the business could come from."
Of course facebook is going to write software for this thing.
I do feel like Facebook may go all PS Home / Second Life courtesy of this... but if they find a way to blend your user information and likeness seamlessly into it, and your wall becomes your home, and you can invite people over to watch rented movies or have large social gatherings, they could have an absolute hit on their hands.
Yeah, Zuck is looking years down the road when he says the stuff about the network.
If they wanted to create a system like that without making it exclusively for that, they didn't need to buy it, they could have spent the money developing that experience and just that. If they want to make the theatre experience like you said, they'll want to stop the same free experience that already exists. They need control for this to be worthwhile, releasing an open model first wouldn't be a good thing for them. It's like if Apple sold jailbroken Iphones first and then brought out a new model and said 'this can do some of the things the one you have does, but now you can pay us for them and only do things we agree with!' - why would anyone buy the second one?
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
"As for exactly how Facebook will monetize Oculus, CEO Mark Zuckerberg said on the call to investors, "We're clearly not a hardware company. We're not going to try to make a profit off of the hardware long-term...but if we can make this a network where people are communicating, and buying virtual goods, and there might be ads down the line...that’s where the business could come from."
Of course facebook is going to write software for this thing.
I do feel like Facebook may go all PS Home / Second Life courtesy of this... but if they find a way to blend your user information and likeness seamlessly into it, and your wall becomes your home, and you can invite people over to watch rented movies or have large social gatherings, they could have an absolute hit on their hands.
Yeah, Zuck is looking years down the road when he says the stuff about the network.
If they wanted to create a system like that without making it exclusively for that, they didn't need to buy it, they could have spent the money developing that experience and just that. If they want to make the theatre experience like you said, they'll want to stop the same free experience that already exists. They need control for this to be worthwhile, releasing an open model first wouldn't be a good thing for them. It's like if Apple sold jailbroken Iphones first and then brought out a new model and said 'this can do some of the things the one you have does, but now you can pay us for them and only do things we agree with!' - why would anyone buy the second one?
I would be willing to bet really, REALLY good money that the launch unit will not require you to sign in to facebook, or tie it to your facebook account at all.
Like seriously, ten thousand dollar bet. Right now.
any takers?
It's not a fair bet, since Palmer Luckey has explicitly said this was the case, post-deal.
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Just because Palmer Luckey says something doesn't make it so, if anything it just highlights his naivety. I'm pretty sure Vince Zampella thought he was in control too right up until EA signed Titanfall up as an Xbone exclusive.
But no, I don't think you'll have to sign in to FB to use the Rift.
You don't have to sign into Facebook to use Instagram. You have to sign in to Instagram.
I assume you'll have to sign into 'The Rift'
The Rift is a monitor and a tracking device, not a computer or a console.
You don't sign on to PS+ on your sony monitor so you can use it with your computer, you don't sign in to xbox live when you hook a 360 controller up to your PC, and you won't sign in to "rift" as a service to connect a monitor and HID to the machine.
syndalis on
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Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
Or do you really think Facebook intend to become a glorified monitor company?
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
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Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
If you go by that TSR post that got linked here, Valve is still the one in control, as they have written a fully functional "directX-like" API for VR that all the players on the PC side of things seem to be embracing, including Oculus.
So Facebook handling the promotion and sale of the flagship device, while Valve develops the engine that OR (and supposedly many unannounced others) are going to use seems like an absolute win/win.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
You really really don't need to worry about that. Anybody with the slightest ability to build one of these is going to realise how big this Facebook acquisition will make the market for VR.
Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
You really really don't need to worry about that. Anybody with the slightest ability to build one of these is going to realise how big this Facebook acquisition will make the market for VR.
Also you don't need to be invested in gaming to make VR that is good for gaming. The problem domains are exactly overlapped. Social interaction via VR is going to be a much harder problem then gaming - your interface goes from a stick (gun) to needing to be hands, legs, maybe facial expressions?
The same problems relevant to gaming are relevant to any virtual world - i.e. motion sickness from persistence, framerate etc. The only way you can be disinterested is if you drop into the "movie watching device" category. Everything neat and exciting needs the exact same problems solved.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Well they've stated they're not a hardware company and they've stated they're not looking to make profit on the hardware long term so I don't think they just spent $2billion to sell hardware open to anyone and everyone.
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
You really really don't need to worry about that. Anybody with the slightest ability to build one of these is going to realise how big this Facebook acquisition will make the market for VR.
Also you don't need to be invested in gaming to make VR that is good for gaming. The problem domains are exactly overlapped. Social interaction via VR is going to be a much harder problem then gaming - your interface goes from a stick (gun) to needing to be hands, legs, maybe facial expressions?
The same problems relevant to gaming are relevant to any virtual world - i.e. motion sickness from persistence, framerate etc. The only way you can be disinterested is if you drop into the "movie watching device" category. Everything neat and exciting needs the exact same problems solved.
Yep. Immersion on Facebook is going to be much harder, as people won't be wearing space marine armor or playing something that is fundamentally not them.
Skip to around 50 seconds - facebook is going to need something like this thing the new kinect does on top of the VR of the rift if they want to sell the concept of virtual social, in my opinion. And then they are going to need to map motion somehow, but I do not see the average facebook user investing in 3d treadmills for their living rooms, or wanting to use WASD to walk around either.
It is going to be real interesting to see how they choose to use the tech.
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But you have to be invested in gaming to make it useful for gamers if it's in any way a service which Facebook clearly wants it to be (the mentions of adverts and monetisation). If you can't just plug it in to your PC and run any game with it that's a problem, if developers are put off because it's Facebook, that's a problem. I'm sure the hardware will be great - it already is - but I don't see how Facebook finding ways to monetise it is a win for gamers in any way. I'd be much, much happier if it was Panasonic or Toshiba or even Microsoft or Sony who had picked this thing up - because their focus would be great gaming experiences on it and that would be the end of it.
I guess all of this is just conjecture but I believe people are not being irrational or paranoid when they are disheartened and concerned by this news. Oculus Rift is not what we thought it was now, we don't know what it is but the consumer release seems unlikely to be a high-res minimal-lag version of the Dev Kit, which is what many people were waiting for. I think I'll buy a dev kit 2 now in case it's the last open one.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The consumer release will be exactly that. You massively underestimate the development cycle of hardware. To redesign the Rift into something like you describe with a Facebook integration would take another 24 months easily. They would be starting from essentially nothing.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Why are we assuming they're still going to release it this year? Are there any release dates announced or any mention of a release date since the acquisition?
I'm not saying the hardware will be worse, I'm saying I think they'll hold back a consumer release until whatever Facebook want is integrated.
Disheartened and concerned, perhaps - but people on the internet, as so often, go into conniptions, which is definitely not called for, and there's very little concrete criticism that isn't vague as hell. When I get back from work, I'm hoping that there'll be some more levelheaded writeups on the reliable sites.
P.S.: On a totally different note, does anyone else see the light grey apple logo on the slighly darker grey background of @syndalis ' post? I've never noticed that sort of thing on the boards. Is it some weird sig line wizardry?
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Disheartened and concerned, perhaps - but people on the internet, as so often, go into conniptions, which is definitely not called for, and there's very little concrete criticism that isn't vague as hell. When I get back from work, I'm hoping that there'll be some more levelheaded writeups on the reliable sites.
P.S.: On a totally different note, does anyone else see the light grey apple logo on the slighly darker grey background of @syndalis ' post? I've never noticed that sort of thing on the boards. Is it some weird sig line wizardry?
Nobody sees it but you.
you are losing your mind.
Buy an iPad.
Or Buy an xbox.
Really, either or.
syndalis on
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You know how I said I'm against people being stupid? This is stupid. Like, dude, this happened <24 hours ago. There has been no additional news announced. There has been no reports of any changes to the immediate term business plans of Oculus.
Look I'm disappointed in the acquisition and it's not because of data mining or having to log-in with their bullshit service. I feel like it's just going to be used for Facebook games and stupid shit like that.
I know it's irrational. I know they've said "independent" about a million times, but we've all heard that same shit before as consumers. And it just never ends up being the case. Like two weeks ago I finally decided that I wanted to buy an OR for myself when it comes out but now I'll do the wait and see approach.
At least we have Sony's VR tech and Valve is still working theirs so hopefully we'll still get some good gaming VR sets out there. I just feel like this is going to make it take more time... And I'm an impatient fuck and want it now.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Look I'm disappointed in the acquisition and it's not because of data mining or having to log-in with their bullshit service. I feel like it's just going to be used for Facebook games and stupid shit like that.
I know it's irrational. I know they've said "independent" about a million times, but we've all heard that same shit before as consumers. And it just never ends up being the case. Like two weeks ago I finally decided that I wanted to buy an OR for myself when it comes out but now I'll do the wait and see approach.
At least we have Sony's VR tech and Valve is still working theirs so hopefully we'll still get some good gaming VR sets out there. I just feel like this is going to make it take more time... And I'm an impatient fuck and want it now.
Valve's VR Hardware tech isn't meant for consumer release; its supposedly crazy expensive and doesn't have much of a home application.
Valve's VR software on the other hand? That's what is going to power the Rift's vidja capabilities, as well as a bunch of other unannounced awesome headsets according to TSR.
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Ah I thought Valve was gonna release it. Either way at least we still have options. I am kinda saddened because OR seemed like the underdog... As weird as that sounds.
I'd heard about Valve's own hardware and also the fact that they weren't going to pursue it commercially, which just left me confused and a little saddened. Now hearing that they've been doing it to develop a standard open source API for VR, I'm much less confused and very much pleased!
Ah I thought Valve was gonna release it. Either way at least we still have options. I am kinda saddened because OR seemed like the underdog... As weird as that sounds.
No, I get it, but it is a huge problem with how we perceive companies and products. Lots of people inherently despise immensely successful people / companies, and love being "in" on something small and scrappy. But for the Rift to achieve the kind of penetration that lets everything from mainstream gaming to TSR's teledildonic aspirations to massive virtual social networks it needed to grow into a big player.
For all we know, Zuck put the Rift on and got that slack jawed look of joy many people get when they do blue marble for the first time, and pulled out his checkbook. Zuck did what we would possibly have done in this situation... but obviously with greater capital.
you know how there have been a half dozen posts of people in here disappointed that they would not be able to participate in the IPO now because of this? they are disappointed because Zuck saw exactly what they saw... so why immediately assume he wants to wreck that potential right out of the gate?
Carmack and Palmer are still leading the charge. Zuck entrusted them with a shitload of money (and hopefully some goals like releasing in Q4 2014 / Q1 2015 at the latest).
I am still hopeful for the company... possibly even moreso now that it has to grow beyond niche status to justify the investment.
syndalis on
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I just prefer that it be used for gaming and not social VR quite honestly. With FB at the helm I'm sure there will be a push away from Gaming. This is my fear.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I just prefer that it be used for gaming and not social VR quite honestly. With FB at the helm I'm sure there will be a push away from Gaming. This is my fear.
But it was already moving pretty far from being just a gaming device.
Some of the best demos are only interactive in the sense that you experience them, like the rollercoaster or blue marble.
TSR is developing software that allows for sexual interaction between virtual partners.
The rift (and all devices like it) is a television, a monitor. It's a human interface device. It is an amazing immersive simulation tool.
It will obviously be used for anything that benefits from being immersed in it, which includes but is obviously not limited to games.
edit: is your TV with a PS4/Wii/Xbox hooked up to it less of a gaming device because your neighbor watches "real househusbands of mobile, alabama" on theirs, next door?
syndalis on
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And that's cool but now it's going to be even more of a social device. My fear is unfounded sure, but I can't but be disappointed they were bought out by Facebook of all places.
If I was in the same spot as them I'd have signed the hell out of that deal the desk would have broke so I don't really blame them.
but the consumer release seems unlikely to be a high-res minimal-lag version of the Dev Kit
That is insane, and incredibly unlikely to be true unless you see Luckey Palmer and Carmack leave the company in protest.
It will likely end up even lower latency, with custom manufactured parts for everything as opposed to bulk orders of pre existing mobile tech.
Oh, so you mean way way way more expensive to buy. Great!
Cheaper, actually.
By not buying off the shelf parts and making an investment in components that are yours, you gain control of the supply chain. you can switch manufacturers without issue since they will fabricate to your exact design, and you get exactly what you need and don't have to engineer around what you don't like.
there is a reason the ps4, xbox one, and pretty much every console aside from the original xbox uses their own designed parts. It performs exactly the way they want it to and it puts them in greater control of the price long-term.
syndalis on
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
but the consumer release seems unlikely to be a high-res minimal-lag version of the Dev Kit
That is insane, and incredibly unlikely to be true unless you see Luckey Palmer and Carmack leave the company in protest.
It will likely end up even lower latency, with custom manufactured parts for everything as opposed to bulk orders of pre existing mobile tech.
Oh, so you mean way way way more expensive to buy. Great!
Cheaper, actually.
By not buying off the shelf parts and making an investment in components that are yours, you gain control of the supply chain. you can switch manufacturers without issue since they will fabricate to your exact design, and you get exactly what you need and don't have to engineer around what you don't like.
there is a reason the ps4, xbox one, and pretty much every console aside from the original xbox uses their own designed parts. It performs exactly the way they want it to and it puts them in greater control of the price long-term.
So long as you can manufacture them at a large enough scale to make custom fabs worthwhile. Which if FB provides the market penetration it damn well should is an exceedingly likely prospect.
I'm not down on this because I irrationally hate Facebook. Shit, I use Facebook every day as it's the most consistent way I can stay in contact with my friends. And between them, Microsoft, and Google, I've been data strip mined.
My fear's are more in line with Honky's, in that I see Facebook taking the reins some time down the road, and aside from Instagram, their purchases and offshoots have all landed with a resounding *thud*. Plus, I'll admit, it saddens me to see the small company that portrayed itself as the independent VR trailblazer get bought out by a monolithic corporation that ironically is a social network, but hardly listens to its users. A bit of the romanticism died, which I know is irrational, but still sad.
I am bolstered by TSR's reply from the Shadowplane, however. More manufacturers/competitors will be good, so we won't have a binary choice of OR or Sony. It'll be interesting to see who announces hardware.
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited March 2014
If they release a consumer version that does 1080p, super low-latency tracking past the point of notice, and no screen door effect... this is a device you can use for 5-10 years. It is reliant upon external sources to improve (a better video card, a nicer game console, etc), and since 4K video and gaming is probably a long ways off...
you will go through multiple gaming rigs and consoles off of one oculus rift. Being able to knock the internal design out of the park on day one, and just change the size and MAYBE the brightness/contrast/refresh of the screen over time... but that first one you buy is going to last you through a hell of a lot of experiences... and a veritable shitload of production runs, so a custom fab makes all kinds of sense. People upgrade their television sets once or twice a decade at most. The Rift's closest analog is a computer monitor or TV.
So having the money to do it right the first time is fucking great.
syndalis on
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I'm glad you guys have faith in a company like Facebook. I really don't, honestly. If it had been literally any other company in the world I probably wouldn't be nearly as disappointed but here we are.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I'm glad you guys have faith in a company like Facebook. I really don't, honestly. If it had been literally any other company in the world I probably wouldn't be nearly as disappointed but here we are.
Oh, I hate facebook the product. Almost never use it, think its bullshit.
but it is also a multi billion dollar enterprise that got there because they delivered products people really wanted.
And I have faith in John Carmack to let the world know if this is bullshit in the weeks/months to come. The fact that he is openly talking about setting up his facebook account means he isn't opposed to the inner workings of this deal.
SW-4158-3990-6116
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I'm glad you guys have faith in a company like Facebook. I really don't, honestly. If it had been literally any other company in the world I probably wouldn't be nearly as disappointed but here we are.
Oh, I hate facebook the product. Almost never use it, think its bullshit.
but it is also a multi billion dollar enterprise that got there because they delivered products people really wanted.
And I have faith in John Carmack to let the world know if this is bullshit in the weeks/months to come. The fact that he is openly talking about setting up his facebook account means he isn't opposed to the inner workings of this deal.
Yeah I'm sure a couple million dollars will change anyone's mind. He's really "open" to the idea. It'd be bad for a Facebook employee to not have a Facebook account.
I'm glad you guys have faith in a company like Facebook. I really don't, honestly. If it had been literally any other company in the world I probably wouldn't be nearly as disappointed but here we are.
Oh, I hate facebook the product. Almost never use it, think its bullshit.
but it is also a multi billion dollar enterprise that got there because they delivered products people really wanted.
And I have faith in John Carmack to let the world know if this is bullshit in the weeks/months to come. The fact that he is openly talking about setting up his facebook account means he isn't opposed to the inner workings of this deal.
Yeah I'm sure a couple million dollars will change anyone's mind. He's really "open" to the idea. It'd be bad for a Facebook employee to not have a Facebook account.
Carmack quit id Software because ZeniMax Media, the company that owns id Software, didn't want to support the Oculus Rift.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I'm glad you guys have faith in a company like Facebook. I really don't, honestly. If it had been literally any other company in the world I probably wouldn't be nearly as disappointed but here we are.
Oh, I hate facebook the product. Almost never use it, think its bullshit.
but it is also a multi billion dollar enterprise that got there because they delivered products people really wanted.
And I have faith in John Carmack to let the world know if this is bullshit in the weeks/months to come. The fact that he is openly talking about setting up his facebook account means he isn't opposed to the inner workings of this deal.
Yeah I'm sure a couple million dollars will change anyone's mind. He's really "open" to the idea. It'd be bad for a Facebook employee to not have a Facebook account.
Carmack strikes me as a guy who has such a legacy that I doubt he would tarnish it for a few million bucks. I think the money he earned during the quake 3 engine's heyday (which includes making mountains of cash off of the call of duty franchise) kind of shelters him from being easily bought out.
He is a full-on fucking genius who for whatever reason decided to apply his genius to videogame rendering engines. And the parts about Rift that excited him the most are the parts that would be damaged by putting some kind of layer between the device and its core function.
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I'm not specifically nervous about Facebook or data mining actually. I'm nervous in general that one content provider has purchased the Rift. I'd be equally nervous if EA, Activision, Nintendo, Sony, MS, etc purchased them - it's a great piece of equipment and it worries me that the open nature of it will start to go away. Valve would probably be the only company that would have made me comfortable.
Also Notch's opinion seems a bit overboard, but I do wonder if other companies (Valve comes to mind) might be more hesitant to support something tied to Facebook.
If they wanted to create a system like that without making it exclusively for that, they didn't need to buy it, they could have spent the money developing that experience and just that. If they want to make the theatre experience like you said, they'll want to stop the same free experience that already exists. They need control for this to be worthwhile, releasing an open model first wouldn't be a good thing for them. It's like if Apple sold jailbroken Iphones first and then brought out a new model and said 'this can do some of the things the one you have does, but now you can pay us for them and only do things we agree with!' - why would anyone buy the second one?
I would be willing to bet really, REALLY good money that the launch unit will not require you to sign in to facebook, or tie it to your facebook account at all.
Like seriously, ten thousand dollar bet. Right now.
any takers?
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But no, I don't think you'll have to sign in to FB to use the Rift.
I assume you'll have to sign into 'The Rift'
The Rift is a monitor and a tracking device, not a computer or a console.
You don't sign on to PS+ on your sony monitor so you can use it with your computer, you don't sign in to xbox live when you hook a 360 controller up to your PC, and you won't sign in to "rift" as a service to connect a monitor and HID to the machine.
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Or do you really think Facebook intend to become a glorified monitor company?
No, I think they are seeding the and giving VR a significant "push" because facebook wants to be the place where people go to hang out in virtual space. They see the current model not surviving another decade, so they want a new pillar to eventually dominate in.
They are creating a market, and they happen to own the company most likely to lead the charge, which gives them a huge advantage regardless of if it is tied down or not.
The branding on the box alone... hell, even setting up VR-Only features on Facebook and guiding people to buy a rift to make use of them.
One week ago, I had to fully explain what the hell an oculus rift was to pretty much any non-PC gamer friend of mine.
In a few months, there is going to be buzz, even amongst the non gaming sector, because Facebook controls a lot of mindshare nowadays.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
That's definitely a good thing for the VR industry - the market is going to grow substantially, but it's still a shame that a company with no interest in mainstream games are now in control of one of the biggest players, Sony are the other main player I'm aware of and they will be interested in focusing on Playstation - we don't currently have any companies trying to make something open that gamers and developers can use with whatever they want. That's one of the things that was so exciting about the Rift.
If you go by that TSR post that got linked here, Valve is still the one in control, as they have written a fully functional "directX-like" API for VR that all the players on the PC side of things seem to be embracing, including Oculus.
So Facebook handling the promotion and sale of the flagship device, while Valve develops the engine that OR (and supposedly many unannounced others) are going to use seems like an absolute win/win.
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You really really don't need to worry about that. Anybody with the slightest ability to build one of these is going to realise how big this Facebook acquisition will make the market for VR.
Also you don't need to be invested in gaming to make VR that is good for gaming. The problem domains are exactly overlapped. Social interaction via VR is going to be a much harder problem then gaming - your interface goes from a stick (gun) to needing to be hands, legs, maybe facial expressions?
The same problems relevant to gaming are relevant to any virtual world - i.e. motion sickness from persistence, framerate etc. The only way you can be disinterested is if you drop into the "movie watching device" category. Everything neat and exciting needs the exact same problems solved.
Yep. Immersion on Facebook is going to be much harder, as people won't be wearing space marine armor or playing something that is fundamentally not them.
Skip to around 50 seconds - facebook is going to need something like this thing the new kinect does on top of the VR of the rift if they want to sell the concept of virtual social, in my opinion. And then they are going to need to map motion somehow, but I do not see the average facebook user investing in 3d treadmills for their living rooms, or wanting to use WASD to walk around either.
It is going to be real interesting to see how they choose to use the tech.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I guess all of this is just conjecture but I believe people are not being irrational or paranoid when they are disheartened and concerned by this news. Oculus Rift is not what we thought it was now, we don't know what it is but the consumer release seems unlikely to be a high-res minimal-lag version of the Dev Kit, which is what many people were waiting for. I think I'll buy a dev kit 2 now in case it's the last open one.
That is insane, and incredibly unlikely to be true unless you see Luckey Palmer and Carmack leave the company in protest.
It will likely end up even lower latency, with custom manufactured parts for everything as opposed to bulk orders of pre existing mobile tech.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm not saying the hardware will be worse, I'm saying I think they'll hold back a consumer release until whatever Facebook want is integrated.
P.S.: On a totally different note, does anyone else see the light grey apple logo on the slighly darker grey background of @syndalis ' post? I've never noticed that sort of thing on the boards. Is it some weird sig line wizardry?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Nobody sees it but you.
you are losing your mind.
Or Buy an xbox.
Really, either or.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
You know how I said I'm against people being stupid? This is stupid. Like, dude, this happened <24 hours ago. There has been no additional news announced. There has been no reports of any changes to the immediate term business plans of Oculus.
Also what syndalis said.
I know it's irrational. I know they've said "independent" about a million times, but we've all heard that same shit before as consumers. And it just never ends up being the case. Like two weeks ago I finally decided that I wanted to buy an OR for myself when it comes out but now I'll do the wait and see approach.
At least we have Sony's VR tech and Valve is still working theirs so hopefully we'll still get some good gaming VR sets out there. I just feel like this is going to make it take more time... And I'm an impatient fuck and want it now.
Valve's VR Hardware tech isn't meant for consumer release; its supposedly crazy expensive and doesn't have much of a home application.
Valve's VR software on the other hand? That's what is going to power the Rift's vidja capabilities, as well as a bunch of other unannounced awesome headsets according to TSR.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
No, I get it, but it is a huge problem with how we perceive companies and products. Lots of people inherently despise immensely successful people / companies, and love being "in" on something small and scrappy. But for the Rift to achieve the kind of penetration that lets everything from mainstream gaming to TSR's teledildonic aspirations to massive virtual social networks it needed to grow into a big player.
For all we know, Zuck put the Rift on and got that slack jawed look of joy many people get when they do blue marble for the first time, and pulled out his checkbook. Zuck did what we would possibly have done in this situation... but obviously with greater capital.
you know how there have been a half dozen posts of people in here disappointed that they would not be able to participate in the IPO now because of this? they are disappointed because Zuck saw exactly what they saw... so why immediately assume he wants to wreck that potential right out of the gate?
Carmack and Palmer are still leading the charge. Zuck entrusted them with a shitload of money (and hopefully some goals like releasing in Q4 2014 / Q1 2015 at the latest).
I am still hopeful for the company... possibly even moreso now that it has to grow beyond niche status to justify the investment.
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But it was already moving pretty far from being just a gaming device.
Some of the best demos are only interactive in the sense that you experience them, like the rollercoaster or blue marble.
TSR is developing software that allows for sexual interaction between virtual partners.
The rift (and all devices like it) is a television, a monitor. It's a human interface device. It is an amazing immersive simulation tool.
It will obviously be used for anything that benefits from being immersed in it, which includes but is obviously not limited to games.
edit: is your TV with a PS4/Wii/Xbox hooked up to it less of a gaming device because your neighbor watches "real househusbands of mobile, alabama" on theirs, next door?
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If I was in the same spot as them I'd have signed the hell out of that deal the desk would have broke so I don't really blame them.
Oh, so you mean way way way more expensive to buy. Great!
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Cheaper, actually.
By not buying off the shelf parts and making an investment in components that are yours, you gain control of the supply chain. you can switch manufacturers without issue since they will fabricate to your exact design, and you get exactly what you need and don't have to engineer around what you don't like.
there is a reason the ps4, xbox one, and pretty much every console aside from the original xbox uses their own designed parts. It performs exactly the way they want it to and it puts them in greater control of the price long-term.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
So long as you can manufacture them at a large enough scale to make custom fabs worthwhile. Which if FB provides the market penetration it damn well should is an exceedingly likely prospect.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
My fear's are more in line with Honky's, in that I see Facebook taking the reins some time down the road, and aside from Instagram, their purchases and offshoots have all landed with a resounding *thud*. Plus, I'll admit, it saddens me to see the small company that portrayed itself as the independent VR trailblazer get bought out by a monolithic corporation that ironically is a social network, but hardly listens to its users. A bit of the romanticism died, which I know is irrational, but still sad.
I am bolstered by TSR's reply from the Shadowplane, however. More manufacturers/competitors will be good, so we won't have a binary choice of OR or Sony. It'll be interesting to see who announces hardware.
you will go through multiple gaming rigs and consoles off of one oculus rift. Being able to knock the internal design out of the park on day one, and just change the size and MAYBE the brightness/contrast/refresh of the screen over time... but that first one you buy is going to last you through a hell of a lot of experiences... and a veritable shitload of production runs, so a custom fab makes all kinds of sense. People upgrade their television sets once or twice a decade at most. The Rift's closest analog is a computer monitor or TV.
So having the money to do it right the first time is fucking great.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Oh, I hate facebook the product. Almost never use it, think its bullshit.
but it is also a multi billion dollar enterprise that got there because they delivered products people really wanted.
And I have faith in John Carmack to let the world know if this is bullshit in the weeks/months to come. The fact that he is openly talking about setting up his facebook account means he isn't opposed to the inner workings of this deal.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Yeah I'm sure a couple million dollars will change anyone's mind. He's really "open" to the idea. It'd be bad for a Facebook employee to not have a Facebook account.
Carmack quit id Software because ZeniMax Media, the company that owns id Software, didn't want to support the Oculus Rift.
Carmack strikes me as a guy who has such a legacy that I doubt he would tarnish it for a few million bucks. I think the money he earned during the quake 3 engine's heyday (which includes making mountains of cash off of the call of duty franchise) kind of shelters him from being easily bought out.
He is a full-on fucking genius who for whatever reason decided to apply his genius to videogame rendering engines. And the parts about Rift that excited him the most are the parts that would be damaged by putting some kind of layer between the device and its core function.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...