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So the [Duel of Champions] CCG is pretty fun.

EchoEcho ski-bapba-dapModerator mod
edited June 2013 in Games and Technology
eoeon96.png <-- clicky the linky!

Oh dear, I've gone and gotten hooked on a CCG. This will be a shitty OP for a bit while I get it written up properly.

Duel of whatnow?

If you've played Magic, you know how it works, pretty much. What's interesting in DoC is that you have lanes for your cards. That's right, they got a bit of MOBA in my CCG!

You have four lanes, with two slots in each lane, for a total of eight slots you can play cards in, and the same for the enemy. The lanes have two ranks: front and rear rank. You can play different kinds of cards in different ranks:

* Melee card: these can only be played in the front rank. They can only attack what's in front of them, so if the enemy half of the lane has a melee card and a shooter card, you'll have to punch your way through the opposing melee card first before you can get to the creamy shooter card.
* Shooter card: these can only be played in the rear rank, and they can attack both the front and rear rank in the lane - thus shooters. So far all shooters I've seen are also immune to Retaliation. (More on that later.)
* Flyer card: these can go in both front and rear ranks, but like melee cards can only attack the front-most enemy card in a lane.

Funbucks?

Yeah, they have an internet funbucks currency. However! You get a decent chunk of their funbucks by playing the single-player campaign and leveling up - finishing the campaign and getting to level 5 should net you 1200 funbucks, which is enough to buy the 120-card booster box. So do that! The Void Rising box gives you lots of Sanctuary cards (they're new in the expansion), so if you don't want to play Sanctuary you might want to get the base set box instead. Up to you.

Free stuff!

Here are a bunch of promo codes you can use that will give you some neat starting bonuses.
A3D-WER-Q8E-DF2-E4J
M3R1-XMAS-2YOU-FROM-D3VS
TH4NK5FBF4N5
5ORRY54TURD4Y
WE-ARE-NO-TROLLS

PA also has this promo that gives you 275 funbucks and three booster packs.

Factions

You have a bunch of factions. They kinda-sorta correspond to a mix of colors from Magic. With exceptions, of course.

Haven: think "white" from Magic. Healing, shielding, preventing damage, that kind of stuff.
Necropolis: think "black" from Magic. Necromancy, dealing damage over time, draining life.
Stronghold: think "red" from Magic. All about combat, typically with emphasis on melee cards too. Spells are for wimps. Lots of cheap, weak creatures.
Sanctuary: think "blue" from Magic. Control, manipulation of the board, preventing the enemy from doing stuff.
Inferno: also a bit towards red, like Stronghold, but with more spells and ranged combat. Also heavier creatures than Stronghold.
Neutral: pretty much everything.

The Hero!

That's right, you have a hero for your deck - this is the foundation you build your deck around. You pick a hero of a faction, and you are then limited to creatures of that faction and the neutral faction; and spells of the schools the hero can cast.

Magic schools

Your hero for your deck knows a bunch of magic schools, which limits the spells you can have in your deck - can't have them if you can't cast them!

Some of the typical stuff from the schools:

Water: control, debuffing, manipulating, preventing combat.
Earth: regeneration, buffing, preventing damage.
Primal: debuffing. (...well, I only have two cards here yet...)
Fire: Damage! Duh.
Air: shielding, debuffining, damage, manipulating, preventing combat. Kind of the jack of all trades.
Light: Healing, buffing, smiting the heathen with bolts of lightning.
Dark: necromancy stuff. Life steal, picking through the graveyard late at night for corpses to return to your hand...





Well, that'll do for a shitty OP for the moment. Work in progress.

Here's a video of the finals in some championship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBmZyyl37Jk

And here's one with commentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6UdgPAFK2s


i-3RJ2qV5-950x10000.jpg

Echo on
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Posts

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    It is pretty fun. You stole my evening, dude.

    Doesn't have quite as robust a single-player experience as Kingdoms CCG or as straightforward a one as Shadow Era, though, which is too bad. Their campaign goes from difficult to "Ha ha, no," pretty early, though that may be a function of my picking Necropolis.

    So far, my experience has been that Necropolis actually plays closer to White Control or Blue w/ removal in its default incarnation; there's a serious dearth of offense but it's durable and manages the board handily. If different heroes change spell schools, pairing it with something other than Water could change that.

    Sanctuary, based on one totally grueling match I finally managed to win, has the green / blue "This is a giant thing, ha ha!" thing going on, for those who like that, and Stronghold is a particularly interactive version of Red that actually seems like a lot of fun if you got it tuned.

    E: Kingdoms, not Legends.

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    Oh god this game got it's hooks in me. So far it's really good for free to play, very polished. I spent a couple hours on this last night and just from doing the first two campaign areas with a starter deck I had enough gold and whatever the "premium" monies are to buy a bunch of booster packs. It's like I'm starting my MTG addiction all over again but I haven't spent any real cash yet!

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Selecta wrote: »
    Oh god this game got it's hooks in me. So far it's really good for free to play, very polished. I spent a couple hours on this last night and just from doing the first two campaign areas with a starter deck I had enough gold and whatever the "premium" monies are to buy a bunch of booster packs. It's like I'm starting my MTG addiction all over again but I haven't spent any real cash yet!

    Yeah, I ground out a "Box," in the premium currency and several packs. Protip for other people: The hero cards have 4 points worth of might / magic / morale, potentially plus abilities, and varying spell access, so even within the same faction you get different deck-building options depending on who's in charge. Necropolis plays like black weenie with the ghost-buffing guy you'll encounter in Mission 2, for example.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • MerrManMerrMan Registered User regular
    I played for a few hours a couple of nights ago. Here's my biggest complaint:

    It's a collectible card game. Without trading. Let that sink in for a minute.

    The starter decks feel really... unfocused? After jumping in to matchmaking and going up against someone with a much more fleshed out Necro deck I got stomped really hard. But you're totally at the mercy of the packs with whether or not you'll get something for your deck or not.

    The overall gameplay is pretty good. I still feel like these lane based games are missing... something. This one is better than some others that I've played, but I really feel like the concept of the 'utility creature' is missing. Stuff like tappers or the Guild Mages in current MTG - they aren't there to battle, but they take up a slot on the battlefield and just exert this constant pressure. there's no way to just be like "no blocks, take 2" instead you've got to let your guy chump block when you're still at 20 health. It feels really foreign compared to Magic and my knee jerk reaction is that it's bad. That might be wrong, I'm still undecided.

    I'm probably oversimplifying. I have to admit that the free to play hook of: play a few games --> get a pack for playing - is fucking amazing and I do love that. I'll see where it goes, but I'm not sure this one is going to keep me interested.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    You also can't have the same card in several decks.

    Let that sink in for a minute.

    Sure, random cards in boosters, that's part of the business model. But if you have a card in one saved deck, you can't have the same card in another deck. That's just a silly, annoying artificial limitation. There's nothing preventing me from just deleting the deck and reusing the card in another deck.

    AuralynxThemindtaker
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    MerrMan wrote: »
    The overall gameplay is pretty good. I still feel like these lane based games are missing... something. This one is better than some others that I've played, but I really feel like the concept of the 'utility creature' is missing. Stuff like tappers or the Guild Mages in current MTG - they aren't there to battle, but they take up a slot on the battlefield and just exert this constant pressure.

    There are cards like that. I fought a guy that had a card that was immune to spell damage and magic creatures, had no attack/retaliation, and made his spells cost one less.

  • warder808warder808 Registered User regular
    I played this a bit. Seems pretty awesome. Look forward to spending more time with it. In a similar vein, I kickstarted Hex on kickstarter. That seems pretty rad.

    steam_sig.png
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    What I'm missing is some sort of full card library so I can theorycraft a bit.

  • MerrManMerrMan Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    What I'm missing is some sort of full card library so I can theorycraft a bit.

    This is the closest thing I've found, though it's not super browseable.

    http://www.mmdoc.net/card_list/list/

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    I grabbed a downloadable spoiler off their forums; it is equally problematic, but comprehensive.
    Echo wrote: »
    MerrMan wrote: »
    The overall gameplay is pretty good. I still feel like these lane based games are missing... something. This one is better than some others that I've played, but I really feel like the concept of the 'utility creature' is missing. Stuff like tappers or the Guild Mages in current MTG - they aren't there to battle, but they take up a slot on the battlefield and just exert this constant pressure.

    There are cards like that. I fought a guy that had a card that was immune to spell damage and magic creatures, had no attack/retaliation, and made his spells cost one less.

    I opened one of those! The spiders are not remarkably good but they do have their uses, notably blocking up magic attackers, like you said.

    The utility creatures appear to live mostly in the Sanctuary pile, fwiw.

    This one's got a little bit of the same problem as Shadow Era, where most decks are functionally control decks, after further play, but it's not a bad design at all.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Having just kickstarted Hex and then realizing that's gonna take a while (but holy shit looks so good) giving this a whirl.

    Also, yay an iOS version!

    Wait fuck only for iPad. Sigh. LET MY PHONE PLAY TOO.

    edit: why did they send me a french confirmation email. Wha?

    SniperGuy on
    Twitch Streaming basically all week
    SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
  • KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Never mind, problem solved. Sigh.

    Ketar on
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Downloading this now. Is the model reasonably good about handing out half decent boosters without paying?

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Downloading this now. Is the model reasonably good about handing out half decent boosters without paying?

    Boosters (12 cards) for the base set are 12500 gold. You get 10k gold each time you level up, and 300-500 gold for a win, depending on some obscure parameters.

    There's also a "premium" booster for 18k gold - also 12 cards, but three of them will be "foil"! Woo, digital sparkles!

    The boosters for the Void Rising expansion set costs funbucks - 1200 funbucks for a box of 10 boosters (120 cards); I think it's 225 funbucks per expansion booster otherwise.

    1200 funbucks is 15 euros. 15 euros for 120 cards is pretty solid compared to Magic, assuming you're willing to blow money on this.

    You also get a small amount of funbucks from completing the solo campaign missions.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    That's actually not a bad deal in terms of cash to cards ratio.

    Picked Haven, seems neat. Opened some boosters and got some cards that sound cool.

    The deck customiser is horrible though, all the cards are too small to read. Which compounded with the fact that I am terrible at these games means I have no idea what to do with my deck.

    Also to clarify:

    All heroes are the same except for their faction and magic schools, which effect what cards you can have in your deck (faction+neutral creatures and blessings then specific schools of magic?)

    Digging it so far, though I wish more was made of the seperate lanes/battlefields thing. I thought the central slot for each was gonna be some form of constant enchantment (though the fact that firemines effect the AI who put them there to is glorious).

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    The deck customiser is horrible though, all the cards are too small to read. Which compounded with the fact that I am terrible at these games means I have no idea what to do with my deck.

    Right-click them to zoom in. It's pretty obvious that they focus on making this an iPad game and polishing the Windows port isn't all that important.
    All heroes are the same except for their faction and magic schools, which effect what cards you can have in your deck (faction+neutral creatures and blessings then specific schools of magic?)

    Some heroes have extra abilities they can use, at the cost of less health etc. Different heroes also have different starting levels in might/magic/resources.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited May 2013
    As an example, I got this hero. She starts with zero might and has 18 base health, but an extra ability. And it's a sparkly foil card!


    hero.jpg

    Echo on
  • LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    This looks solid, but are the expansion cards real money only? I played some online card game a few years back that was pretty rad, but then they adjusted the power level dramatically through expansions which were real money only. This essentially destroyed the game for anyone who wasn't willing to shell out regular $$$, and it's my main concern with online card games these days.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Digging it so far, though I wish more was made of the seperate lanes/battlefields thing. I thought the central slot for each was gonna be some form of constant enchantment (though the fact that firemines effect the AI who put them there to is glorious).

    It appears to be for ongoing effects that hit that entire row; you'll notice some parallel small slots along the columns, which can apparently be home to stuff like tornadoes.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, those are where you cast spells that affect the entire row/column. Fire Trap, Ice Wall, Cyclone, Sun Burst, whathaveyou.

    Echo on
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, I was just thinking those would be more permenant on the field.

    Also while I think the expansion cards are buy only you can get a mixed pack booster with the in game cash.

    EDIT: Also I can't resist not buying the foil version of each pack. God help me.

    Albino Bunny on
  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    As far as I can tell the expansions may be bought with the premium currency while they're new. I bet they'll open them up to be bought with gold at some point, probably when the next set is released. It's also a much smaller set than the base one isn't it?

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    @Echo

    Here are some codes to redeem in game and have no limits on how many people can use them. Might want to add it to the OP so people here can get some free shizz.
    A3D-WER-Q8E-DF2-E4J
    M3R1-XMAS-2YOU-FROM-D3VS
    TH4NK5FBF4N5
    5ORRY54TURD4Y
    WE-ARE-NO-TROLLS

    I can confirm they all work and I think when it was all said and done I got like 3 or 4 premium boosters, a special Christmas art campfire card, 10k gold and some seals (maybe 100?).

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
    Albino BunnyAuralynxEchoElbasunu
  • mogonkmogonk Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    If you just want to play a few games now and then to kill time? Yeah, it's a fun game.

    If you have ambitions to build a competitive deck or break even the modest 800-1000 Elo range? Don't bother. Due to the random nature of card acquisition, the extreme rarity of cards essential to every deck, and the fact that xp gains slow dramatically after level 15, you simply can't unlock what you need by playing. And if you decide to buy power, you're looking at a few hundred dollars before your deck is where it needs to be. At a minimum.

    And when I say dramatically, I mean DRAMATICALLY. You basically stop leveling, and your gold gain is effectively cut to around 1/3 to 1/2 of what you get used to at the lower levels. They are very transparently trying to hook you on the rush of opening those packs early, then gate your fix behind a pay wall.

    Oh, and once you do break into the upper tier? Get ready to have all the fun sucked out of the game. The meta-defining deck is a stall/combo setup that abuses constant board wipes and global damage prevention while setting up a OTK around the 15th turn. You either play that, play a deck built to counter that, or lose.

    A great illustration connecting my first point to my second: One of the best ways to counter mass removal is creatures that can attack when they enter play ("haste" in MtG parlance). Unfortunately, there is exactly one usable creature with that ability available to most decks and it's insanely rare. I have found only one in about 60 booster packs. Think about that.

    To restate: Due to balance problems, the competitive scene lacks all variety. And due to carefully making crucial cards for every deck OBSCENELY rare, the superficially reasonable pricing scheme is revealed as deeply exploitative.

    Sorry to rant, but I felt you all should know what you're getting into.

    mogonk on
    Constrictor
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Got Christmas Campfire,

    4 premium boosters

    1 normal booster

    10K gold.

    Also a gold booster for five games.

    Near as I can tell anyway.

    Albino Bunny on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    This looks kind of cool.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    mogonk wrote: »
    If you just want to play a few games now and then to kill time? Yeah, it's a fun game.

    If you have ambitions to build a competitive deck or break even the modest 800-1000 Elo range? Don't bother. Due to the random nature of card acquisition, the extreme rarity of cards essential to every deck, and the fact that xp gains slow dramatically after level 15, you simply can't unlock what you need by playing. And if you decide to buy power, you're looking at a few hundred dollars before your deck is where it needs to be. At a minimum.

    And when I say dramatically, I mean DRAMATICALLY. You basically stop leveling, and your gold gain is effectively cut to around 1/3 to 1/2 of what you get used to at the lower levels. They are very transparently trying to hook you on the rush of opening those packs early, then gate your fix behind a pay wall.

    Oh, and once you do break into the upper tier? Get ready to have all the fun sucked out of the game. The meta-defining deck is a stall/combo setup that abuses constant board wipes and global damage prevention while setting up a OTK around the 15th turn. You either play that, play a deck built to counter that, or lose.

    A great illustration connecting my first point to my second: One of the best ways to counter mass removal is creatures that can attack when they enter play ("haste" in MtG parlance). Unfortunately, there is exactly one usable creature with that ability available to most decks and it's insanely rare. I have found only one in about 60 booster packs. Think about that.

    To restate: Due to balance problems, the competitive scene lacks all variety. And due to carefully making crucial cards for every deck OBSCENELY rare, the superficially reasonable pricing scheme is revealed as deeply exploitative.

    Sorry to rant, but I felt you all should know what you're getting into.

    This is also what I've been gleaning from the official forums. It's probably impossible to keep an online CCG dynamic without the constant card churn Magic and L5R were both pretty guilty of, but it's weird to me to see so few of them stabilizing around aggro decks.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    That PVE encounter vs the guys with incorperal spam can go suck a dick.

    D:

    Seriously, even my pimping Total Xormage deck wont kill him. If a pun in the name doesn't help then what will?

  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    I just won my first multiplayer match.
    Seems pretty solid so far.

  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    Not being able to trade cards with people is pretty weird. I can understand that they want people to buy packs and stuff but come on. It's sort of core to the game itself.

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
    Jam Warrior
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    So... both my decks (burd power and total Xormage) seem to be really slow early and not really delivering the oomph they need to make up for it late. I tend to do okay mid game and get hits in but otherwise I just slowly die.

    Is there a general rule of thumb on how I should be setting up decks cost/type structure wise to try and solve that problem?

  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    I found this link helpful with deckbuilding and how the game works from a beginner standpoint. It also links to mmdoc.net which has the full spoiler and a place where people submit decks, sort of like tcgplayer. I think as a general rule if you're playing a rush style deck, your curve should top out around 4 and more control style decks are higher than that with ways to stay alive early till your fatties hit the board. I dunno, I kind of use people's submitted decklists for reference. I don't have good enough cards yet to really know how a good competitive deck should play.

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
    Albino Bunny
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    I have the Enrage "pump" hero and not enough enrage. It is infuriating.

    That said, I also nabbed the Knight haven guy who gives +1 hp to all melee creatures and that is hoooooot. My 2/1/5 chargers having a little extra help is a big deal.

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    I really, REALLY wish this worked on android tablets/phones.

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I have Xorn who has the ability to spend 1 resource to give all melee units +1 ATK for a turn.

    I also have a deck full of melee units with lash and area attack.

    It's not quite worked out yet, but when it does I'm gonna spam paste STAMPEEEDE between every attack like a tool.

  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Has anyone thrown any of their cards into the infernal pit yet?

    The returns are abysmal (lol). Something like 50 for commons, 300 for uncommons, 1000 for rares, and 2000 for mythics.

    I think there's other rarities but I have no idea what the hell any of them are called.

    Edit: Foil cards...ugh...WHHHHHHHY. WHO CAAAAARES.

    Elbasunu on
    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    There's a trick to the infernal pit, check the link in my post above. Someone has worked out how to get the most of that thing so you get the card for trashing your extras.

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
  • mogonkmogonk Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I have Xorn who has the ability to spend 1 resource to give all melee units +1 ATK for a turn.

    I also have a deck full of melee units with lash and area attack.

    It's not quite worked out yet, but when it does I'm gonna spam paste STAMPEEEDE between every attack like a tool.

    Just FYI, if you're looking to optimize an inferno rush deck you pretty much have to go Garant. While Xorm's ability is nice and he can occasionally get out a very fast 3-drop, he can't use Teleport or Town Portal, two tools that are essential to breaking through defenses.

    Teleporting a Ravager to an empty row is 2 mana for 6 damage, it's ridiculously efficient. It also forces your opponent to spread their defenders (as does Fireball), making it harder to establish board control. And Town Portal directly counters their attempt to spread by getting you a tempo and free damage via any row with only one defender.

    http://www.mmdoc.net/show_deck/130/

    This is probably the best I-Rush deck for new players. It's 4/4/1, but you can coast on 4/2/1 for most of the game if you need the card draw. There are a number of substitutions to make once you have better cards, notably Dark Assassin and Gao Deathseeker.

    If you absolutely must use Xorm, pack 4 Pile of Gold's and pray you get a good initial draw, because that turn 1-2 Juggernaut is all he has going for him.

    mogonk on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Holy crap, the devs are listening! Either that, or I'm secretly being watched!

    I grumbled about only being allowed to have a card in one single deck, and they responded that they're evaluating getting rid of that.

    (ping @Inquisitor)

  • SelectaSelecta Registered User regular
    mogonk wrote: »
    It's 4/4/1, but you can coast on 4/2/1
    This right here, what does it mean? I've been seeing numbers like that in decklist descriptions but I have no idea what it stands for.

    MNWGRdm.png
    PSN: Hellcore- Steam MWO: Hellcore
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