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[Fire Emblem] Awakening is a Critical Hit!

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    Man of the WavesMan of the Waves Registered User regular
    Does the game use people on your friends list to populate Street Pass teams?

    A few teams have popped up on my map without a corresponding Street Pass hit. I'm wondering if it happened after a friend came on-line or if someone had Street Pass active in FE:A, but not on their 3DS.

    I've picked up a few weird ones lately, too: a humorously weak team that played up their weakness and teams that didn't join the logbook after defeat.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I need a master seal and am on Chapter 6 which seems to be before you get one. This is slightly problematic as my Avatar is 20 and I need to raise supports with a healer. Wasted XP! Also, the DLC maps don't seem to help healers much so far, they level the same as outside them (slowly). Only tried the first 2 golden pack maps, though.

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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I need a master seal and am on Chapter 6 which seems to be before you get one. This is slightly problematic as my Avatar is 20 and I need to raise supports with a healer. Wasted XP! Also, the DLC maps don't seem to help healers much so far, they level the same as outside them (slowly). Only tried the first 2 golden pack maps, though.

    Heal every scratch. And rescue staves. Massive XP from those things.

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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    You get a Master Seal come Chapter 8, in the bottom left village. To level healers you generally have to resort to Rescue staves, but you get promoted staff users on Paralogue 4 and Chapter 9.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Oh yeah, Rescue staves. Forgot where I got the one I have, hope I can buy them. Thanks for the information

    Edit: I fire the game up to check and discover this shop doesn't sell a rescue staff, but does sell a master seal. Yay! Oh, was a random shopkeeper apparently. Good timing.

    Edit the 2nd: Healers should raise support with everyone around them when they heal like attacking does for non-healers. Boo.

    Xeddicus on
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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Yeah! Got Palla!

    Gonna make her my Rallybot

    What're the best rallies to group together? Strength, Love, Spectrum... Speed is good. Maybe Magic?

    Rally Spectrum, Heart, Skill, Strength and Magic. +10 in your sheer offensive stats and absolute murder on an Ignis user
    Jediabiwan wrote: »
    Honestly I would have enjoyed the characters so much more if they were more "boring". They exaggerated every single aspect of their personalities so now they seem so fake I don't care for 90% of what they are saying. They just feel so disconnected from the army and the rest of the story.

    Almost none of the characters in awakening have any connection to the overall story. They're simply people who joined you for basically no reason and are now hanging around to save the world. Sayri is one of the most underdeveloped characters, but one of my favorites. She has a clear motivation for joining, and personal connections with who she is fighting. Compare this to Tiki who seems like she should have major relevance, but I honestly can't even remember why she was there. I mean other FE games would have a couple of those characters who came out of nowhere but in Awakening its well over the majority of the cast.

    In other FE games, characters were actually given a back-story and relevance through the main story instead of exclusively supports. The conversations might not have been as entertaining, but they made more sense. These people were fighting a war and they had real motivations and interactions along the way. In awakening most people care more about making fucking pies than doing anything important.

    I'm glad that other people can enjoy the relationships between the character, but the only other game in which I cared about the characters less was shadow dragon. Part of this is because so much of a characters personality is hidden behind supports, much of which you won't see if you don't spend time grinding. But what I have seen isn't that impressive and doesn't make up for the lack of a detailed main story.

    FE9 and FE10 (although supports were kinda lacking in this one) had such epic stories I don't see why they changed. But if you really want a an amazing story, along with an example of how marriage/children should be done, go back and play the first gen of FE4.

    There are many problems with your statement
    For one (as said above), pretty much every unit has a motivation for joining.
    Second, the earlier FE games (Save 8) had worse motivations. Raven- "I will kill Hector!" and does nothing. Geitz- "I am bored". Aran- "I will do good like never to be mentioned again character taught me to"
    Third, FE4, i will just say it now, is dumb. The mechanics are broken, horribly, unfixably broken. FE10's mechanics may have been bad for Fire Emblem, but on their own they are very solid mechanics. FE4 also has dragging maps and an overrated cliche story, and no were near approaches Awakening in any regard.

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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    Chen wrote: »
    I dunno. All the conversations are just boring drivel. Part of that is because the characters are inherently boring, particularly the Avatar. They should just scrap that feature altogether, especially when the customization is as limited as it is. Why even add it when the only choice you have to make is choosing your spouse? It's not a dating sim.
    Did... did you even *PLAY* other Fire Emblem games? I have to ask, because it's sounding more and more that you like Roy because he was in Smash Bros. Melee, and not part of a game with the same "boring drivel", if not an at a lesser value. No it's not a dating sim game, and that's why it's not supposed to be in-depth "can I set the right flag for this girl while helping her deal with her baggage" deal. Saying the characters are boring is really just personal bias. I mean, more power to you, but few will agree.

    My standpoint is quite simple. Characters can be interesting/boring through not just writing, but also how they interact within the story (chapters) to add additional gameplay elements.

    For example, in FE6, there's a thief called Cath who appears in three chapters and will actively plunder treasure chests and leave, because you know, she's a thief. In Awakening, you have a similar character in Gaius, who is merely a mercenary and likes wealth. The difference is that he stands there like a doofus, not adding anything interesting to the chapter in terms of obstacles. That's boring. They could have done so many interesting things with him. Back to FE6, there's a character who will only join you if you bribe him and his stats will reflect how much you payed him through bargaining. The less you pay, the less diligent he'll be. It makes sense. With Gaius, Chrom persuades him (with candy no less). That's it. Nothing changes.

    I can name many more examples of how well they've interwoven writing and gameplay together in FE6. In one of the early chapters, there's a lecherous coward from Bern who you're meant to dislike (he tries to rape an underage girl). Rutger tries to free her as he hates Bern. She seeks help from Roy and later recruits the same guy who set her free. In Awakening, I have seen nothing of the sort. Some of the chapters are downright silly. In one of the early chapters, the game reveals that one of the nations appoints a king/queen for a year through a competition. When you defeat the rival party (who is Marth for some inexplicable reason), the losing guy becomes your best friend and gives you his best warrior to join your cause. What the actual fuck? This is becoming Advance Wars territory.

    Games of this caliber should have either good writing or offer interesting gameplay (ideally both), but as far as I can tell, Awakening offers neither. I understand the development teams changed. Intelligent Systems stayed the same in name, but the lead designers of previous Fire Emblems probably went to different teams and it shows.

    I jokingly referred Awakening to a dating sim, but it's actually not that far from the truth. Your choices have little consequences (ooh hair colour!), just like in 'real' dating sims, and part of the writing acts as wish-fulfillment.

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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    Chen wrote: »
    Chen wrote: »
    I dunno. All the conversations are just boring drivel. Part of that is because the characters are inherently boring, particularly the Avatar. They should just scrap that feature altogether, especially when the customization is as limited as it is. Why even add it when the only choice you have to make is choosing your spouse? It's not a dating sim.
    Did... did you even *PLAY* other Fire Emblem games? I have to ask, because it's sounding more and more that you like Roy because he was in Smash Bros. Melee, and not part of a game with the same "boring drivel", if not an at a lesser value. No it's not a dating sim game, and that's why it's not supposed to be in-depth "can I set the right flag for this girl while helping her deal with her baggage" deal. Saying the characters are boring is really just personal bias. I mean, more power to you, but few will agree.

    My standpoint is quite simple. Characters can be interesting/boring through not just writing, but also how they interact within the story (chapters) to add additional gameplay elements.

    For example, in FE6, there's a thief called Cath who appears in three chapters and will actively plunder treasure chests and leave, because you know, she's a thief. In Awakening, you have a similar character in Gaius, who is merely a mercenary and likes wealth. The difference is that he stands there like a doofus, not adding anything interesting to the chapter in terms of obstacles. That's boring. They could have done so many interesting things with him. Back to FE6, there's a character who will only join you if you bribe him and his stats will reflect how much you payed him through bargaining. The less you pay, the less diligent he'll be. It makes sense. With Gaius, Chrom persuades him (with candy no less). That's it. Nothing changes.

    I can name many more examples of how well they've interwoven writing and gameplay together in FE6. In one of the early chapters, there's a lecherous coward from Bern who you're meant to dislike (he tries to rape an underage girl). Rutger tries to free her as he hates Bern. She seeks help from Roy and later recruits the same guy who set her free. In Awakening, I have seen nothing of the sort. Some of the chapters are downright silly. In one of the early chapters, the game reveals that one of the nations appoints a king/queen for a year through a competition. When you defeat the rival party (who is Marth for some inexplicable reason), the losing guy becomes your best friend and gives you his best warrior to join your cause. What the actual fuck? This is becoming Advance Wars territory.

    Games of this caliber should have either good writing or offer interesting gameplay (ideally both), but as far as I can tell, Awakening offers neither. I understand the development teams changed. Intelligent Systems stayed the same in name, but the lead designers of previous Fire Emblems probably went to different teams and it shows.

    I jokingly referred Awakening to a dating sim, but it's actually not that far from the truth. Your choices have little consequences (ooh hair colour!), just like in 'real' dating sims, and part of the writing acts as wish-fulfillment.

    ... I'm not going to argue with a complete idiot.

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    DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    Chen wrote: »
    For example, in FE6, there's a thief called Cath who appears in three chapters and will actively plunder treasure chests and leave, because you know, she's a thief. In Awakening, you have a similar character in Gaius, who is merely a mercenary and likes wealth. The difference is that he stands there like a doofus, not adding anything interesting to the chapter in terms of obstacles. That's boring. They could have done so many interesting things with him. Back to FE6, there's a character who will only join you if you bribe him and his stats will reflect how much you payed him through bargaining. The less you pay, the less diligent he'll be. It makes sense. With Gaius, Chrom persuades him (with candy no less). That's it. Nothing changes.

    can't speak to the dev team stuff atm, but comparing Cath to Gaius is a silly analogue considering Chad exists

    the role of the first thief is always to provide a new mechanic that will be used throughout the game, with minimal fuss so you're not screwed out of that part of the game for a long time. Gaius and Chad fill this role. I don't like Gaius but he's pretty clearly meant to fulfill this role, same as Colm and Sothe

    A better comparison to Cath would be Anna, who does appear in side chapters before recruited, essentially acting as a time limit on an otherwise uninteresting chapter, etc

    make better arguments

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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    @QuickSmasherEXE The only negative thing you can call someone on these boards is "goose", and you really shouldn't resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with someone.

    Awakening does not resemble a dating sim in any meaningful way as you do not make any choices in it and there is no time mechanic; Mass Effect and Persona 3/4 are closer to dating sims than it is. If you don't think Awakening's gameplay is at all compelling then that's a shame. Maybe go play something you actually enjoy.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    I know. I made a sneer jokingly.

    They could have introduced Gaius in a later chapter. He's just an enemy. He can fit in any other chapter with human enemies. Also, Chad automatically joins.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I paid for Apotheosis and my team is working its way toward being ready to take it on. Got my Rallybot, got all but a few of my Limit Breakers. Just need to do some stat grinding and save up a chunk of cash for a metric butt-ton of forged Brave weapons

    I don't know if I want to go to that much effort

    But I might as well

    dN0T6ur.png
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    DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    Chen wrote: »
    I know. I made a sneer jokingly.

    They could have introduced Gaius in a later chapter. He's just an enemy. He can fit in any other chapter with human enemies. Also, Chad automatically joins.

    I don't understand what you're trying to say here, unless you're saying you just made a joke, in which case sneer is the wrong word. Yes they are not perfect analogues, although they fulfill largely the same role? And sure, Gaius could have been introduced in a later chapter had they pushed back the introduction of chests, or given you another thief

    these are not points that I was arguing!



    Anyways it turns out having Olivia around for the ch.12-13 cutscenes is magical

    I thought she just had the sparkly effect when she was dancing but it's there all the time

    so she is just standing there, quietly glittering.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Probably should have looked into the specific maps that were recommended, as for instance Apotheosis is probably a million hours away...

    Xeddicus on
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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Daypigeon wrote: »
    Anyways it turns out having Olivia around for the ch.12-13 cutscenes is magical

    I thought she just had the sparkly effect when she was dancing but it's there all the time

    so she is just standing there, quietly glittering.

    It's the little touches like this that are particularly fabulous

    Later on when L reveals herself Olivia's just off to the side, glittering and crying

    And she has the single best breakdown over that scene, too

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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    I miss the 2D General design.

    The Awakening one just isn't as cool.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I like the art design in Awakening fine (for the most part...)

    But there is undoubtedly a certain flair to the hand-drawn battle animations that just isn't there anymore

    I know it's too expensive to ever happen, but I would be deliriously happy if a Wii U Fire Emblem was completely hand-drawn

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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I wasn't talking about the art design in general.

    I was talking about the General design.

    The General in the 2D games is one of my all-time favorites and I was so disappointed with the one in Awakening.

    I think the non-existent feet just made it worse.

    Dragkonias on
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Chen, you're not some prophet of truth trying to open the eyes of the sheeple. We've played a collected several hundred hours of FE:A, not to mention the previous games. We're aware of your opinions, we just don't share those. You're not succeed in convincing us that FE:A is a bad game with bad characters/writing.

    You're definitely free to have your opinion and express it, just don't expect to convert us to it.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Ohhhhhh

    Yeah the Generals in the GBA games were boss hog

    The only general in Awakening who looks really great as a General is Walhart, everybody else looks silly - it's not even as good as in the Radiance games, which were already lacking

    Edit: Though it needs to be said that if they looked like the concept art, they would be hype as HELL, that is one bad-looking son of a bitch

    Wyborn on
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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    I love the character designs and animations in Awakening, they really did a terrific job on them. But yeah, the GBA ones had a certain charm to them precisely because they were on the GBA. If you've only got a rather limited set of tools, you really gotta work hard to create something (visually) memorable. Those animations were so great and iconic for the same reasons everyone remembers all those 8 and 16-bit tunes from Mario, Zelda and whatnot. Simple, but memorable.

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    Chen, you're not some prophet of truth trying to open the eyes of the sheeple. We've played a collected several hundred hours of FE:A, not to mention the previous games. We're aware of your opinions, we just don't share those. You're not succeed in convincing us that FE:A is a bad game with bad characters/writing.

    You're definitely free to have your opinion and express it, just don't expect to convert us to it.

    Please don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't trying to convert anyone. I'm trying to explain my perspective, since people keep saying they don't understand my point of view when I sport a Roy avatar, which is irrelevant to this discussion.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Chen wrote: »
    Chen, you're not some prophet of truth trying to open the eyes of the sheeple. We've played a collected several hundred hours of FE:A, not to mention the previous games. We're aware of your opinions, we just don't share those. You're not succeed in convincing us that FE:A is a bad game with bad characters/writing.

    You're definitely free to have your opinion and express it, just don't expect to convert us to it.

    Please don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't trying to convert anyone. I'm trying to explain my perspective, since people keep saying they don't understand my point of view when I sport a Roy avatar, which is irrelevant to this discussion.

    I think there may be some misinterpretation going on here

    When people express surprise over your views and draw your avatar/sig combo as a point of comparison, they are implicitly saying "You really enjoy a game that is legitimately worse"

    It does not necessarily mean that they want to hear more about why you don't like a game that they like

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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    So I can't defend my opinion? Alright then.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Well of course I don't mean that.

    I just mean that, according to your post you were explaining your point of view in response to others.

    I'm just clarifying: if you wonder why people aren't receiving your criticisms of the game with particular warmth, that's why

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    ... I'm not going to argue with a complete idiot.

    Geth, infract for glorious edict violation.

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    GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Your operating system is unstable, @QuickSmasherEXE. You will fail.
    Infracted @QuickSmasherEXE (2 points for 30 days) for "glorious edict violation"

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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    You're comparing a game we're all presently playing to a game that was released exclusively in Japan eleven years ago, there's not a whole lot some of us can do to engage you meaningfully.

    I can say that Awakening made many populist decisions in its design as it was do or die; if the game didn't sell 250k the franchise was going to be canned. In map design and character recruitment, it is not as sophisticated as it could have been, and the story is very shallow, with not enough time given to Lucina's alternate future and the threat posed by the Grimleal, or development of the primary antagonists in the first two thirds.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    No, I didn't compare the two games at first. It's when jokes were made at the expense of my avatar that I felt compelled to defend it.

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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Yeah, my point is that you're fervently defending a collections of deeply subjective points of view. We acknowledge your opinion and your right to have them, but I can't see what else can be argued either way.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Well of course I don't mean that.

    I just mean that, according to your post you were explaining your point of view in response to others.

    I'm just clarifying: if you wonder why people aren't receiving your criticisms of the game with particular warmth, that's why

    That's fine. It's just an opinion after all.

    V0Gug2h.png
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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    ... I'm not going to argue with a complete idiot.

    Geth, infract for glorious edict violation.
    Shen wrote: »
    @QuickSmasherEXE The only negative thing you can call someone on these boards is "goose", and you really shouldn't resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with someone.

    Awakening does not resemble a dating sim in any meaningful way as you do not make any choices in it and there is no time mechanic; Mass Effect and Persona 3/4 are closer to dating sims than it is. If you don't think Awakening's gameplay is at all compelling then that's a shame. Maybe go play something you actually enjoy.

    My apologies. I will not argue with a goose then.

    I probably should have actually read the terms and conditions, looking back

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    JediabiwanJediabiwan Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, my point is that you're fervently defending a collections of deeply subjective points of view. We acknowledge your opinion and your right to have them, but I can't see what else can be argued either way.

    Chen's got every right to argue his opinion, even if he's by far in the minority. This thread is mainly about opinions and chen certainly doesn't deserve some of the responses he's got from his posts.

    Just because someone doesn't want to hear his opinions doesn't mean he shouldn't defend what he thinks.
    Echo wrote: »
    ... I'm not going to argue with a complete idiot.

    Geth, infract for glorious edict violation.
    Shen wrote: »
    @QuickSmasherEXE The only negative thing you can call someone on these boards is "goose", and you really shouldn't resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with someone.

    Awakening does not resemble a dating sim in any meaningful way as you do not make any choices in it and there is no time mechanic; Mass Effect and Persona 3/4 are closer to dating sims than it is. If you don't think Awakening's gameplay is at all compelling then that's a shame. Maybe go play something you actually enjoy.

    My apologies. I will not argue with a goose then.

    I probably should have actually read the terms and conditions, looking back

    Yeah calling someone stupid and ignoring their points is not a good way to have a debate.

    Jediabiwan on
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    I made a point of stating that he's entitled to expressing his opinions, it's just that he shouldn't expect people to rush into agreeing. If he intends to keep repeating how terrible the game is, it's ok, there are plenty other threads in the forum. But I'd dare say he already made his position more than abundantly clear, and the utter lack of concordance is not due to a shortage of defending.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    tumblr_mh6seapwLU1rqqme8o1_500.png

    Let's not get too serious in here, eh guys?

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    You know, before last night, my strangest dream ever was navigating a completely purple-hued post apocalyptic future with Mace Windu to buy a 3DS from a child drug lord. This was in 2009

    But last night I dreamed the cast of Awakening were fighting against marvel comic book villains (I remember there were 3 specifically, the Green Goblin, Dr. Doom and someone else) in the modern world. It went through an amusement park, and a bookstore, and absolutely no one found it out of the ordinary.

    And to make it even weirder, it ended with Owain being a priest. Not a priest class or anything pertaining to the game, but an actual (oddly competent yet also in character) Christian priest.

    Oh, and there was something about cloning them with guerilla blood taking needles, but that was a bit hazy

    QuickSmasherEXE on
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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    Jediabiwan wrote: »
    Yeah, my point is that you're fervently defending a collections of deeply subjective points of view. We acknowledge your opinion and your right to have them, but I can't see what else can be argued either way.

    Chen's got every right to argue his opinion, even if he's by far in the minority. This thread is mainly about opinions and chen certainly doesn't deserve some of the responses he's got from his posts.

    Just because someone doesn't want to hear his opinions doesn't mean he shouldn't defend what he thinks.
    Echo wrote: »
    ... I'm not going to argue with a complete idiot.

    Geth, infract for glorious edict violation.
    Shen wrote: »
    @QuickSmasherEXE The only negative thing you can call someone on these boards is "goose", and you really shouldn't resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with someone.

    Awakening does not resemble a dating sim in any meaningful way as you do not make any choices in it and there is no time mechanic; Mass Effect and Persona 3/4 are closer to dating sims than it is. If you don't think Awakening's gameplay is at all compelling then that's a shame. Maybe go play something you actually enjoy.

    My apologies. I will not argue with a goose then.

    I probably should have actually read the terms and conditions, looking back

    Yeah calling someone stupid and ignoring their points is not a good way to have a debate.

    I agree. That was rash and, well, dumb (dies a little inside) of me.

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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    I made a point of stating that he's entitled to expressing his opinions, it's just that he shouldn't expect people to rush into agreeing. If he intends to keep repeating how terrible the game is, it's ok, there are plenty other threads in the forum. But I'd dare say he already made his position more than abundantly clear, and the utter lack of concordance is not due to a shortage of defending.

    There is a difference between saying something's bad and saying why something's bad. This is the general Fire Emblem thread last I recall and Awakening is the latest title in the series. It's only been out in Europe for a little over a month, so it's not like I'm repeating myself here. Do you want me tell you why Shadow Dragon is a bad game, then?

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    QuickSmasherEXEQuickSmasherEXE A mad genius, Where you cannot see meRegistered User regular
    No, we already know why

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    AvistTorchAvistTorch Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Guy pretty consistently turns out great, right?

    He sure did for me

    Not for me. He tends to get Strength-screwed. Dodging and doubling everything is nice, but not if he doesn't really do much in the way of damage.
    I knew I was forgetting someone on my list of "characters that always get RNG screwed". I don't know why it's Guy in particular -- Rutger, Joshua, Mia, Edward, even Navarre never got strength screwed. Meanwhile, I've tried using Guy a bunch of times and...

    ...well, he's okay in my HHM run. Those delicious HHM bonuses.

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