Even without the phantom zone projector, there is still a way to take away Zod's powers. They can replicate Krypton's atmosphere.
As for the "he has no choice" thing, as I mentioned earlier, all the earlier collateral damage really weakens that scene. It wasn't the first "he has no choice" scene. Superman was clearly unable to stop Zod from killing thousands of people when they were smashing through dozens of buildings so why didn't he try to use lethal force earlier?
The scene would have been much stronger if they had shown Superman saving people from the collateral damage earlier. Instead of having Zod start off with Superman's level of power, have him start out much weaker. Have Zod take advantage of Superman's compassion by intentionally causing lots of collateral damage so that Superman has fly around trying to protect/save civilians while fighting Zod at the same time. However, Zod absorbs more of the sun's energy and his strength grows as the fight continues, making it harder for Superman to save the civilians. Finally, Zod's power reaches Superman's level and Superman is no longer able to protect civilians from Zod and that's when he has to kill Zod.
a
What good would replicating Krypton's atmosphere do?
It would make Superman and Zod normal, but it seems like it would kill off the population of Earth in the process
And even if it didn't, what then? They capture him and somehow revert the process? Then you've got a super-powered Zod again and no kryptonite to stop him with.
They can do it in an enclosed space.
Knock Zod out, throw him in a specialized chamber with Kryptonian atmosphere.
That machine is massive. They'd have to miniaturize it.
That seems like it'd take an awful lot of time.
That machine
Turns a whole planet into a naural Krypton-like planet.
Taking their powers away could probably been achieved as easily as an underground bunker with with red sun bulbs.
Again
This would take time
Look at the shit they did in 45 minutes!
SPOILERS
People are really desperate to find scenarios which don't end in Superman killing Zod!
EDIT: Also spoilers
I agree with the GV post to the extent that, to minimize casualties, he should have just used lethal force earlier. Although at that point, he did have access to the Phantom Zone. There was still a quick, viable non-lethal option available.
Even without the phantom zone projector, there is still a way to take away Zod's powers. They can replicate Krypton's atmosphere.
As for the "he has no choice" thing, as I mentioned earlier, all the earlier collateral damage really weakens that scene. It wasn't the first "he has no choice" scene. Superman was clearly unable to stop Zod from killing thousands of people when they were smashing through dozens of buildings so why didn't he try to use lethal force earlier?
The scene would have been much stronger if they had shown Superman saving people from the collateral damage earlier. Instead of having Zod start off with Superman's level of power, have him start out much weaker. Have Zod take advantage of Superman's compassion by intentionally causing lots of collateral damage so that Superman has fly around trying to protect/save civilians while fighting Zod at the same time. However, Zod absorbs more of the sun's energy and his strength grows as the fight continues, making it harder for Superman to save the civilians. Finally, Zod's power reaches Superman's level and Superman is no longer able to protect civilians from Zod and that's when he has to kill Zod.
a
What good would replicating Krypton's atmosphere do?
It would make Superman and Zod normal, but it seems like it would kill off the population of Earth in the process
And even if it didn't, what then? They capture him and somehow revert the process? Then you've got a super-powered Zod again and no kryptonite to stop him with.
They can do it in an enclosed space.
Knock Zod out, throw him in a specialized chamber with Kryptonian atmosphere.
That machine is massive. They'd have to miniaturize it.
That seems like it'd take an awful lot of time.
That machine
Turns a whole planet into a naural Krypton-like planet.
Taking their powers away could probably been achieved as easily as an underground bunker with with red sun bulbs.
Again
This would take time
Look at the shit they did in 45 minutes!
SPOILERS
People are really desperate to find scenarios which don't end in Superman killing Zod!
I think its weird that you keep harping on this because that scene was so damn forced.
SomethingAwful put up their review for MoS (they hated it) but I'm going to post it here because the guy makes some really good points and the more I think about it the more I'm in the camp of it being not good at all.
Children are like small, semi-formed humans. They are impressionable, constantly learning, generally carefree and they love stories of adventure and derring-do. Imagine the horror on their impish faces, then, when you sit them down to tell them about the horrible ordeal of Man of Steel. "Gather round, kiddywinks," you'd say, "and I'll tell you the tale of how thousands of people died in the destruction of almost an entire city because Superman was forced to beat some of his fellow superpowered aliens to death. Oh, and remember 9/11? That happened again, only worse. Sleep well."
So it's another story about how the world became one superhero heavier and how he had to deal with his various daddy issues in order to overcome insurmountable odds. It seems odd that so many superhero films have followed the formula of Hulk when that is such a divisive film and it's not really a superhero film at all (in Hulk, Bruce Banner is required only to overcome his daddy issues and not save the world in the process). Man of Steel has a lot in common with Martin Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ too (as well as Star Trek), in that it features a man who is torn between two points of heritage and not knowing which to favour. In this case, human and Kryptonian (replace "Kryptonian" with "Vulcan" or "Divine" depending on which film you're watching.)With the explosion of the planet Krypton imminent, forward-thinking leader Jor-El (Russell Crowe) decides to ship his newborn son Kal off to a faraway world, along with all the information of the Kryptonian bloodlines to continue the glory of his race. However, the rebellious General Zod (Michael Shannon) is not far behind and kills Jor-El in his over-zealous rampage. For this, he is imprisoned in a black hole, swearing to find the infant boy no matter the cost. Meanwhile, Kal has grown into Clark Kent (Henry Cavill) with the help of his adoptive parents (Kevin Costner and Diane Lane). He's a reclusive loner with unstoppable super powers who is in search for the truth about his real parentage. When tenacious reporter Lois Lane (Amy Adams) finds an alien craft in Alaska, she finds the reclusive Clark who has travelled there to meet his space ghost dad and learn the truth of his potential to become Superman, drawing the attention of the now-freed General Zod in the process.
Of course, that could just as easily read "American and non-American," because that is what the film largely touches upon. Clark is an immigrant, but one who was raised in America. "I was raised in Kansas," he insists, "I'm about as American as you can get." He's also white, handsome and morally incorruptible. His other Kryptonian counterparts in Zod and his lackeys are not interested in America or its dreams. They want to turn America into Krypton (literally, and I do mean literally) and enforce a Kryptonian way of life on the corpses that remain. It's a not-too-subtle statement on American immigration, a reaffirmation of America's "melting pot" mentality overcoming the concept of multiculturalism. It has been argued by people with more knowledge of comic books than I that this is a major element of what Superman has been about for a long time and here it seems genuinely, sincerely meant, especially as it presents us with a generally ethnically diverse supporting cast. While it may not agree with my European sensibilities, Man of Steel assures us that the American way isthe right way. Americanness is good, anti-Americanness is bad. This is an understandable and, I think, fairly positive message to be giving young Americans. The problem lies in its presentation.
Man of Steel is arguably Zack Snyder's first non-satirical, non-self-critical film. In Watchmen, particularly, he was interested in exploring the escalation of superheroes and what would end as a self-consuming cycle of elite people changing the parameters of what is required whenever one of them goes too far. He frames these elite people in monolithic poses, they are legends, but also relics on the screen. With Man of Steel, he takes no such approach. He believes in what Superman stands for, clearly, and what it means to America. The issue is that he doesn't think it's a message to be taken lightly. Man of Steel is very cruel in its brutality. The level of death and destruction on display is relentless and exhausting. I emerged from the cinema feeling like I'd been beaten.
I know that Summer blockbusters thrive on spectacle, it's their bread and butter, I just don't know when "spectacle" became synonymous with "devastation." When Richard Donner tackled this material, he felt it enough to have Superman fly to the rescue and use his various superpowers to save lives. With Snyder at the helm, and I feel that this is more a sign of the times than a personal reflection of his own attitudes, an entire city needs to be levelled, skyscrapers torn down and bodies piled up in their thousands. There is no levity here, only an endless massacre. We should be cheering for Superman to save the day, not pleading with him to make it stop. Oh please, Superman, please end the misery! I can't take it anymore!
under no circumstances should we be teaching anyone that america is good and opposing america is bad
SUperman had "no" choice. Because at no point did anybody put any thought into how to do it. SUperman comes up with a big plan but never spares a moment to think about how they might hold them after. NOr does Jor-El or the Scientist who spends the whole movie doing nothing anyway.
That and completely changing the way the Phantom Zone worked(as well as changing it scene to scene!) made it so there was no long term way to hold Zod and thus because he was holding Zod back and completely unable to move him (despite being able to throw Kryptonians around like nothing earlier) and because that family didn't fucking move and Kal-El couldn't choke him him out he was forced to break his neck.
Because breaking someones neck would be easier and require less strength then moving him slightly or choking him.
And he couldn't block the eye raze with his hands because that would involve suffering and...
What the fuck ever.
The more I think of this scene the more hateful I become.
Superman destroys the genesis chamber
Zod is distraught that he has no more purpose in life and that his heritage is destroyed
Superman says there is a ghost of a chance new Kryptonians could be born, because he still has the codex
Zod refuses to see there is any hope left, commits suicide
If you can snap someone's neck, you could also choke them out.
And if they hadn't written Zod flying the scout ship over to Metropolis for no reason, Superman could have used a chamber in that ship as a makeshift prison.
Heck, if they had just written the portal to the Phantom Zone as being open a little longer, Superman could have tossed Zod into it.
Goyer seems to have been bound and determined though to write a scenario where Superman had few choices but to kill, which is disturbing to me.
Even without the phantom zone projector, there is still a way to take away Zod's powers. They can replicate Krypton's atmosphere.
As for the "he has no choice" thing, as I mentioned earlier, all the earlier collateral damage really weakens that scene. It wasn't the first "he has no choice" scene. Superman was clearly unable to stop Zod from killing thousands of people when they were smashing through dozens of buildings so why didn't he try to use lethal force earlier?
The scene would have been much stronger if they had shown Superman saving people from the collateral damage earlier. Instead of having Zod start off with Superman's level of power, have him start out much weaker. Have Zod take advantage of Superman's compassion by intentionally causing lots of collateral damage so that Superman has fly around trying to protect/save civilians while fighting Zod at the same time. However, Zod absorbs more of the sun's energy and his strength grows as the fight continues, making it harder for Superman to save the civilians. Finally, Zod's power reaches Superman's level and Superman is no longer able to protect civilians from Zod and that's when he has to kill Zod.
What good would replicating Krypton's atmosphere do?
It would make Superman and Zod normal, but it seems like it would kill off the population of Earth in the process
And even if it didn't, what then? They capture him and somehow revert the process? Then you've got a super-powered Zod again and no kryptonite to stop him with.
They can do it in an enclosed space.
Knock Zod out, throw him in a specialized chamber with Kryptonian atmosphere.
That machine is massive. They'd have to miniaturize it.
That seems like it'd take an awful lot of time.
Kryptonian ships can do it.
Remember when Superman first got on to Zod's ship?
I'm guessing the scout ship can do it too. There's also those helmets the Kryptonians use. They can recover the ship or a Kryptonian helmet, figure out what the chemical composition of the Kryptonian atmosphere is, then replicate it in a vault or something.
Even without the phantom zone projector, there is still a way to take away Zod's powers. They can replicate Krypton's atmosphere.
As for the "he has no choice" thing, as I mentioned earlier, all the earlier collateral damage really weakens that scene. It wasn't the first "he has no choice" scene. Superman was clearly unable to stop Zod from killing thousands of people when they were smashing through dozens of buildings so why didn't he try to use lethal force earlier?
The scene would have been much stronger if they had shown Superman saving people from the collateral damage earlier. Instead of having Zod start off with Superman's level of power, have him start out much weaker. Have Zod take advantage of Superman's compassion by intentionally causing lots of collateral damage so that Superman has fly around trying to protect/save civilians while fighting Zod at the same time. However, Zod absorbs more of the sun's energy and his strength grows as the fight continues, making it harder for Superman to save the civilians. Finally, Zod's power reaches Superman's level and Superman is no longer able to protect civilians from Zod and that's when he has to kill Zod.
What good would replicating Krypton's atmosphere do?
It would make Superman and Zod normal, but it seems like it would kill off the population of Earth in the process
And even if it didn't, what then? They capture him and somehow revert the process? Then you've got a super-powered Zod again and no kryptonite to stop him with.
They can do it in an enclosed space.
Knock Zod out, throw him in a specialized chamber with Kryptonian atmosphere.
I'm really confused now about
whether it's the radiation that's the source of Superman's powers or the atmosphere. Or both? Thanks, Goyer.
I think it's both.
Jor-El said that Kal would absorb the sun's radiation and that earth's atmosphere is more nutrient rich.
Kryptonian atmosphere seems to neutralize those powers since Superman lost his powers when he got on Zod's ship but then got the powers back after Jor-El switched it to earth's atmosphere. However, Kryptonians seem to be much stronger than humans even without powers since Jor-El said that Krypton's gravity is much stronger and the Kryptonian who attacked Lois punched a hole in the escape pod.
Regardless, the introduction of the atmosphere thing is pretty dumb since Zod and Faora gained powers even though they had those breathing helmets on.
The film was written to a specific end where that's just the way it had to be.
Zod can't be captured.
Can't be reasoned with.
Can't be subdued.
Won't give up.
He's destroying everything.
There is no other realistic recourse for Superman to take in that scene. If you want to shit on Goyer for writing him into a corner like that, and saying it's missing the essence of Superman, fine, sure thing.
But all these fantasy alternate options people are throwing out for that scene are just kind of embarrassing. "Cover his eyes." Okay, then the fight continues. There goes dozens more skyscrapers. "He imprisons him somewhere with red sun rays." Okay, how is he going to subdue him to hold him in a prison long enough? How would this place be built? How's he going to convey this plan to people that could build it?
It sucks that Superman had to kill in that scene. But he did have to. "Fuck Goyer" up and down all day long for that, sure, but that's how it had to be in that scene.
Centi's got it right, essentially.
Fuck Goyer for being Goyer if you really hate that scene (and I don't blame any of you for hating it), but that is the viable outcome of that scene, taking into consideration all the circumstances. Goyer had a vision going into that scene, a vision everyone hates, and he made sure there were no realistic loopholes to stop it from occurring.
UnbreakableVow on
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Snowbeati need somethingto kick this thing's ass over the lineRegistered Userregular
used to be that superman would try to save everyone and never, ever take a life
now he's ignorant to collateral damage and will resort to lethal measures if he can't think of a better option
superman acts as a sort of psychic sponge for america's concept of itself
+6
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Superman punches down a drone...because he doesn't want his secret identity revealed. Is he going to be opposing America's wars next? If the film is acknowledging the existence of our controversial secret drone program, shouldn't the sequel have Superman fighting America itself and saving civilians in Pakistan like Iron Man?
Probably won't happen, because Hollywood loves the military.
:bz: :bz: :bzz:
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
I just realized that
the atmosphere thing also implies Superman wouldn't be effective in space. Or less effective on other planets. Or...
The film was written to a specific end where that's just the way it had to be.
Zod can't be captured.
Can't be reasoned with.
Can't be subdued.
Won't give up.
He's destroying everything.
There is no other realistic recourse for Superman to take in that scene. If you want to shit on Goyer for writing him into a corner like that, and saying it's missing the essence of Superman, fine, sure thing.
But all these fantasy alternate options people are throwing out for that scene are just kind of embarrassing. "Cover his eyes." Okay, then the fight continues. There goes dozens more skyscrapers. "He imprisons him somewhere with red sun rays." Okay, how is he going to subdue him to hold him in a prison long enough? How would this place be built? How's he going to convey this plan to people that could build it?
It sucks that Superman had to kill in that scene. But he did have to. "Fuck Goyer" up and down all day long for that, sure, but that's how it had to be in that scene.
Centi's got it right, essentially.
Fuck Goyer for being Goyer if you really hate that scene (and I don't blame any of you for hating it), but that is the viable outcome of that scene, taking into consideration all the circumstances.
Man even if you think that the movie clearly didn't.
Superman "had" to kill him because he was threatening that family. Nobody ever brings up that they have no way to capture him so it doesn't seem to be the reason the authors intended.
The film was written to a specific end where that's just the way it had to be.
Zod can't be captured.
Can't be reasoned with.
Can't be subdued.
Won't give up.
He's destroying everything.
There is no other realistic recourse for Superman to take in that scene. If you want to shit on Goyer for writing him into a corner like that, and saying it's missing the essence of Superman, fine, sure thing.
But all these fantasy alternate options people are throwing out for that scene are just kind of embarrassing. "Cover his eyes." Okay, then the fight continues. There goes dozens more skyscrapers. "He imprisons him somewhere with red sun rays." Okay, how is he going to subdue him to hold him in a prison long enough? How would this place be built? How's he going to convey this plan to people that could build it?
It sucks that Superman had to kill in that scene. But he did have to. "Fuck Goyer" up and down all day long for that, sure, but that's how it had to be in that scene.
Centi's got it right, essentially.
Fuck Goyer for being Goyer if you really hate that scene (and I don't blame any of you for hating it), but that is the viable outcome of that scene, taking into consideration all the circumstances.
Man even if you think that the movie clearly didn't.
Superman "had" to kill him because he was threatening that family. Nobody ever brings up that they have no way to capture him so it doesn't seem to be the reason the authors intended.
See, that wasn't how I read that scene at all
Being the last straw? Sure. Keep in mind that most of the damage done to people up to this point in the film hadn't really been witnessed - we see all these building collapse, but we're never actually seeing people get killed, and in the commotion of the fight, I doubt Superman and Zod do either.
I read his thought process as being like "He completely ruined this city and even now as I'm struggling to rein him in, he's trying to slaughter a family," and made the choice to do it then and there.
Was that what they intended? Who knows. But that's how it came off to me.
Jonathan's death was a contrived scenario where Clark had no choice but to do the right thing, and it was an excellent scene because it was a formative moment for his character
Zod's death was a contrived scenario where Clark had no choice but to do the wrong thing
:bz: :bz: :bzz:
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
Michael Shannon is fantastic in basically anything
Jonathan's death was a contrived scenario where Clark had no choice but to do the right thing, and it was an excellent scene because it was a formative moment for his character
Zod's death was a contrived scenario where Clark had no choice but to do the wrong thing
I saw this movie, i liked this movie for the spectacle of it all.
But damn did i still get heart broken by the end.
And whats worse for me is that it made me realize that i took Superman for granted.
Like i used comics as a moral coping mechanism in an environment that literally nurtured some bad habits and people over all. (my blood relations in this instance are all morally malleable ; its the easiest way i can explain it with out going into a lot of detail)
So to realize that this guy that i put down for so long, that i never really followed with exception of great minis like Birthright, Secret Identity, All Star, and various great story line TPBs, i just saw him as ... i dunno kinda like people did in Kingdom Come.
An antiquated notion of a bygone era.
And it took the end of this movie for me to realize all of this, and it just breaks my heart, that for a whole generation of people, they will see this version as the premiere version of Superman.
My post from the last thread, the reason why i didn't like the movie at the end.
Later i may make a post about what i did like, for example all the sci fi bits, the bits about rising above your predestined role/ genetics, the stuff with Jonathan & Martha Kent.
Also thought it was really cool to see Whitney Fordman from Smallville in the movie. (The Character not the actor)
I like it all up through
Smallville Fight with Fiora and the tall silent guy. Oddly enough that was the one time he actually showed concern for the civilians.
basically the movie was operating on cynical logic
Batman and Iron Man are cynical stories. A film noir kind of world is a cruel place where people are forced into dilemmas where there is no perfect decision and heroes are forced to compromise their values. A cynic says that a superhero is a fantasy that could not exist in the "real world," because the rules of the world do not allow a hero to be purely heroic. Superman stories are supposed to show us optimism and moral clarity.
Maybe I've become an old fogey before my time but I'm really weary of gratuitous violence.
Superman destroys the genesis chamber
Zod is distraught that he has no more purpose in life and that his heritage is destroyed
Superman says there is a ghost of a chance new Kryptonians could be born, because he still has the codex
Zod refuses to see there is any hope left, commits suicide
Before that happens Superman tells Zod he's stronger than he knows
or
"You think this letter on my chest stands for France?!"
Michael Shannon is fantastic in basically anything
I thought Michael Shannon was one of the weaker actors. Zod was probably the only character I didn't really like. Part of it is because he's written to be pretty incompetent but also because I think Michael Shannon played him too much like a posturing thug who didn't really have an air of authority.
I thought Faora was a more effective villain. Despite having only a few scenes, she made a strong impression as someone who can casually kill her enemies without effort and is mildly amused by their futile efforts to defend themselves. She didn't need to threaten or raise her voice to intimidate.
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
Michael Shannon is fantastic in basically anything
I thought Michael Shannon was one of the weaker actors. Zod was probably the only character I didn't really like. Part of it is because he's written to be pretty incompetent but also because I think Michael Shannon played him too much like a posturing thug who didn't really have an air of authority.
I thought Faora was a more effective villain. Despite having only a few scenes, she made a strong impression as someone who can casually kill her enemies without effort and is mildly amused by their futile efforts to defend themselves. She didn't need to threaten or raise her voice to intimidate.
Yeah, I loved Faora. Her fight where she's just wrecking soldiers with super speed...that was really cool to watch. She embodied the "bred to be a warrior" thing way better than Zod.
Binary SquidWe all make choicesRegistered Userregular
edited June 2013
Crap, sorry.
Didn't the old Superman movie have Clark killing Zod for no reason? I looked at a clip just now and it really appears like he crushes Zod's hand and throws him into an ice chasm. That's after Zod and the others were depowered and no threat to anyone at all. This movie has flaws, and they shouldn't have had Clark kill Zod, but the earlier takes on Superman seem even more brutal than this.
Also, in that movie, they fight in Metropolis and wreck things as well. I wonder if the comparative lack of destruction is just due to the fact that they didn't have CG to increase the scope of things.
Most movies today don't have the wanton destruction in MoS.
I mean Avengers features an ALien Invasion in the middle of a major city and casualties are intentionally avoided and the Avengers make a bunch of efforts to avoid casualties.
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Binary SquidWe all make choicesRegistered Userregular
Most movies today don't have the wanton destruction in MoS.
I mean Avengers features an ALien Invasion in the middle of a major city and casualties are intentionally avoided and the Avengers make a bunch of efforts to avoid casualties.
Are we comparing it against all movies or superhero movies, because there are a few recent movies that deal in utter destruction of huge pieces of real estate. Still, I'll have to see MOS to accurately judge. I just figured I'd mention that it appears to not be the first time Zod has been killed.
-The music
-Flaming Clark with his shirt off; best shot in the film
-The super fast melee attacks from Faora
-The combat in general.
-The military grade armor looked AWESOME.
-Faora was god damned SMOKING
-Krypton pre-explosion
-The Jor-El AI
Dislikes
-Sending Dr. Hamilton and that military guy to the Phantom Zone
-Lack of care about collateral damage, or any attempt by Superman to move the combat way from civilian areas.
-Tying Lois Lane so deeply into the story of Clark becoming Superman and having her know his identity already.
-The suit being kryptonian under-armor.
-Superman being the genetic Ark for his entire race.
-Setting things up that Superman "has to" snap Zod's neck. Lazy writing and misses the point of the character. AND STOP KILLING YOUR DAMN VILLIANS, MOVIES!
Posts
Again
This would take time
Look at the shit they did in 45 minutes!
SPOILERS
EDIT: Also spoilers
I think its weird that you keep harping on this because that scene was so damn forced.
I completely agree with you.
Anti posted the only even semi-viable one, but that still leaves the issue of travel
under no circumstances should we be teaching anyone that america is good and opposing america is bad
i'm going to say that if the way the film is structured doesn't leave supes with any viable way of
it probably shouldn't have been structured that way
That and completely changing the way the Phantom Zone worked(as well as changing it scene to scene!) made it so there was no long term way to hold Zod and thus because he was holding Zod back and completely unable to move him (despite being able to throw Kryptonians around like nothing earlier) and because that family didn't fucking move and Kal-El couldn't choke him him out he was forced to break his neck.
Because breaking someones neck would be easier and require less strength then moving him slightly or choking him.
And he couldn't block the eye raze with his hands because that would involve suffering and...
What the fuck ever.
The more I think of this scene the more hateful I become.
i mean it's not like it's hard to come up with a situation where supes has to do that, his one true weakness is writer fiat
the real question is, what are you actually achieving by putting him in that situation
Zod is distraught that he has no more purpose in life and that his heritage is destroyed
Superman says there is a ghost of a chance new Kryptonians could be born, because he still has the codex
Zod refuses to see there is any hope left, commits suicide
And if they hadn't written Zod flying the scout ship over to Metropolis for no reason, Superman could have used a chamber in that ship as a makeshift prison.
Heck, if they had just written the portal to the Phantom Zone as being open a little longer, Superman could have tossed Zod into it.
Goyer seems to have been bound and determined though to write a scenario where Superman had few choices but to kill, which is disturbing to me.
We make
Remember when Superman first got on to Zod's ship?
I'm guessing the scout ship can do it too. There's also those helmets the Kryptonians use. They can recover the ship or a Kryptonian helmet, figure out what the chemical composition of the Kryptonian atmosphere is, then replicate it in a vault or something.
I think it's both.
Kryptonian atmosphere seems to neutralize those powers since Superman lost his powers when he got on Zod's ship but then got the powers back after Jor-El switched it to earth's atmosphere. However, Kryptonians seem to be much stronger than humans even without powers since Jor-El said that Krypton's gravity is much stronger and the Kryptonian who attacked Lois punched a hole in the escape pod.
Regardless, the introduction of the atmosphere thing is pretty dumb since Zod and Faora gained powers even though they had those breathing helmets on.
Zod can't be captured.
Can't be reasoned with.
Can't be subdued.
Won't give up.
He's destroying everything.
There is no other realistic recourse for Superman to take in that scene. If you want to shit on Goyer for writing him into a corner like that, and saying it's missing the essence of Superman, fine, sure thing.
But all these fantasy alternate options people are throwing out for that scene are just kind of embarrassing. "Cover his eyes." Okay, then the fight continues. There goes dozens more skyscrapers. "He imprisons him somewhere with red sun rays." Okay, how is he going to subdue him to hold him in a prison long enough? How would this place be built? How's he going to convey this plan to people that could build it?
It sucks that Superman had to kill in that scene. But he did have to. "Fuck Goyer" up and down all day long for that, sure, but that's how it had to be in that scene.
Centi's got it right, essentially.
Fuck Goyer for being Goyer if you really hate that scene (and I don't blame any of you for hating it), but that is the viable outcome of that scene, taking into consideration all the circumstances. Goyer had a vision going into that scene, a vision everyone hates, and he made sure there were no realistic loopholes to stop it from occurring.
now he's ignorant to collateral damage and will resort to lethal measures if he can't think of a better option
superman acts as a sort of psychic sponge for america's concept of itself
Probably won't happen, because Hollywood loves the military.
Yeah, really dumb.
Steam
Man even if you think that the movie clearly didn't.
See, that wasn't how I read that scene at all
I read his thought process as being like "He completely ruined this city and even now as I'm struggling to rein him in, he's trying to slaughter a family," and made the choice to do it then and there.
Was that what they intended? Who knows. But that's how it came off to me.
Was Jon Peters the producer of this? If so - amazing.
Also we can all agree that Michael Shannon was fucking fantastic, right?
Zod's death was a contrived scenario where Clark had no choice but to do the wrong thing
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Yes.
Exactly.
My post from the last thread, the reason why i didn't like the movie at the end.
Later i may make a post about what i did like, for example all the sci fi bits, the bits about rising above your predestined role/ genetics, the stuff with Jonathan & Martha Kent.
Also thought it was really cool to see Whitney Fordman from Smallville in the movie. (The Character not the actor)
I like it all up through
Whoa
I didn't catch this at all
Maybe I've become an old fogey before my time but I'm really weary of gratuitous violence.
Before that happens Superman tells Zod he's stronger than he knows
or
"You think this letter on my chest stands for France?!"
I thought Michael Shannon was one of the weaker actors. Zod was probably the only character I didn't really like. Part of it is because he's written to be pretty incompetent but also because I think Michael Shannon played him too much like a posturing thug who didn't really have an air of authority.
I thought Faora was a more effective villain. Despite having only a few scenes, she made a strong impression as someone who can casually kill her enemies without effort and is mildly amused by their futile efforts to defend themselves. She didn't need to threaten or raise her voice to intimidate.
Yeah, I loved Faora. Her fight where she's just wrecking soldiers with super speed...that was really cool to watch. She embodied the "bred to be a warrior" thing way better than Zod.
Steam
Also, in that movie, they fight in Metropolis and wreck things as well. I wonder if the comparative lack of destruction is just due to the fact that they didn't have CG to increase the scope of things.
I mean Avengers features an ALien Invasion in the middle of a major city and casualties are intentionally avoided and the Avengers make a bunch of efforts to avoid casualties.
Likes
-Flaming Clark with his shirt off; best shot in the film
-The super fast melee attacks from Faora
-The combat in general.
-The military grade armor looked AWESOME.
-Faora was god damned SMOKING
-Krypton pre-explosion
-The Jor-El AI
Dislikes
-Lack of care about collateral damage, or any attempt by Superman to move the combat way from civilian areas.
-Tying Lois Lane so deeply into the story of Clark becoming Superman and having her know his identity already.
-The suit being kryptonian under-armor.
-Superman being the genetic Ark for his entire race.
-Setting things up that Superman "has to" snap Zod's neck. Lazy writing and misses the point of the character. AND STOP KILLING YOUR DAMN VILLIANS, MOVIES!
Felt really awkward about