Really great stuff. Thanks for keeping this conversation alive.
I did want to say one thing, though. The time I was diagnosed with cancer is a constant reminder to me that I am *not* in control of my life's outcomes, only in control of my attitude. I've found peace in this situation because I really do believe there exists a higher power who is in control and does care about my life.
Btw, have you ever considered seriously applying the AA 12 steps to video game compulsion? I've found so, so much wisdom in them.
I think AA has wisdom that can be applied to many 'addictions.'
There are a couple 'other' reasons for video game addiction I think as well.
One is some people have an understanding to how frivolous this world is, that pretty much everything we do is unimportant and has no lasting value.
Many politicians from both parties try to make people wage war with each other, demonizing others who share different political, religious, philosophical, sexual, social, economic, and/or moral beliefs. After a while, people get tired of that b.s. Its bad enough to have to work at a job where you're less important than the equipment, raise children in a world where the schools and government think they're better equipped to raise children than the parents, and to attend religious organizations that either lie and say everything is ok, that nothing is 'bad' or that you're just scum that's bound for eternal damnation.
The point is, in video games, you can just chill out, you're not necessarily judged, even if you suck at a game, you can replay it again later on, when you want to. It takes your mind off how messed up this world is, and lets you not only relax, but interact with something that isn't going to depress or piss you off.
Another point is that in video games, you can do things you can't do in the 'real world.' How many of us are going to play in a Superbowl? Not everyone can or wants to be a warrior. I don't think many people would want to live out Dark Souls, Saints Row, Doom 3, etc. Its nice to be able to fantasize a bit as long as you don't mistake it for reality.
I'd never want to speed, but I love doing so in the Need for Speed series. I'd never drive a taxi, let alone what I do in Crazy Taxi. I'd never want to battle angels or demons, but I love Bayonetta, Darksiders, and similar games. I'd never want to attack a cop, but in Need for Speed Undercover, I've played entire sessions where I've tried to disable as many cops as possible.
Wow guys!! that was in the top 5 of episodes!! complete awesomeness...
I have been a pastor for many years and have found this topic discussed by everyone all the time! Thanks for giving me more tools to help gamers like us fit into our places in life!!
I've been watching Extra Credits since this series began and never before has an episode gut-checked me in the manner this one has. It actually left me feeling a little depressed after I finished watching it. That's not a slight against it mind you...it just felt incredibly personal watching it.
@Kestralb: I used to feel that way, too; like how can *others* judge me better then I myself can. But I realized a way out using the very nerdiness that is my strength:
In science, what are the best kinds of experiments? The kinds with unbiased observers and researchers, who won't try to manipulate or interpret the information for their own ends. Of course this is not an ideal world, so it's impossible to get a 100% unbiased observer for any experiment. Even with double-blind studies, there has to, at some point, be a researcher or scientist who understands enough about the experiment's aims and background to make an informed decision. The key is to balance non-bias with insight and knowledge, so we try to get people that are AS unbiased as we possibly can.
Same thing here. True, your friends and family may be more biased then a complete stranger, but you can't just walk up to a stranger and ask "Why should I be found worthy?" because a) they don't know enough about you to tell you and b) they don't usually have time to learn (the exceptions being psychologists and psychiatrists, but that's why we pay them money).
But go too far in the other direction - listening to only yourself - and you'll have too much bias. After all, who has the most to gain or lose depending on the outcome of this argument? You, right? So you're naturally biased about your own self-worth and value in the world, thus making you one of the *worst* candidates to decide that.
So we can't ask strangers because they don't know, and we can't ask ourselves because we're biased. Who do you have left, if not yourself or strangers? The happy medium, of course: friends, family, and enemies. If you don't have enemies, then listen to what your friends and family say, and then listen to what you say, but intentionally lean more toward what friends and family say (more family then friends) because they'll always be less biased then you.
In fact, this is something that professional psychologists use for people with clinical depression, too: they hand you two self-assesment forms, one for you to fill out, and one for someone you like and trust to fill out, both the same, as well as an envelope to prevent you from seeing what they say about you. You give both of them back to the psychologist at the same time, and this helps them determine what is true about you and what your depression falsely biases you into thinking.
That's how I broke out of my depression rut. I hope this helps you and others out there who need it.
The way of the Paladin:
To Seek,
To Learn,
To Do.
-QFG2
If the speed of light is faster then the speed of sound, is that why people always appear bright until they speak? o_O
Being an antisocial person living in the middle of nowhere, life doesn't welcome me back. Ever.
I'm thinking of moving my computer and games up to my room so I don't have to interact with the harsher parts of my life quite as frequently in fact...
Honestly, I really do feel like my life is out of my control.
That's what living with a disability is like sometimes; the very structure and shape of the world transforms into a crippling obstacle.
One thing I don't think you've addressed is that, in games, the consequences of failure are much less serious than in real life. Honestly, that's what's the hardest thing; the fear of failure, on top of the fear of a strange and alien world, is just too much to deal with sometimes.
We are oft to blame in this,
'Tis too much proved, that with devotion's visage
And pious action we do sugar o'er
The devil himself.
It is often those who mean well who do the most harm to us in the end. Those who seek to help mend society's ills by throwing money at the problem rather than solving it lead us to unfulfilling jobs, stagnant politics, and the wretched conditions that many people in the inner cities live with every day. They don't understand the problem, so they can't begin to fix it. So instead of learning more about what's really wrong with our society, they throw money at the problem, either thinking that money will solve the problem, or hoping that money will make it go away.
In the 70's, doctors returned to the BRILLIANT idea that if they asked the patient where it hurt and what they had been doing just before the pain started, they MIGHT get some sort of a clue about what was wrong! Imagine! They also started listening to mothers who brought in their children because maybe the hysterical women could tell them what the child had been doing and give them clues as to what might be wrong with the child. It was considered revolutionary! Honestly, it was. Papers were published on the subject. I can't make this up.
And here we are, 40 years later (I know most of you weren't born yet, but its still important. Try to keep up). No one has realized that if you want to find out what's wrong with the job/stock/etc market, you don't hire a consultant to look at numbers and then make totally wrong guesses, you talk to the people the market has failed and find out what went wrong! It might be a good idea to ask the patient where it hurts, rather than phone up another doctor for a consultation before you enter the exam room.
If you want to cut down on compulsive/addictive behavior, find out what is driving it. Games aren't the problem, they're just the filler. And no, guys, control over your life isn't that simple to take back, otherwise people would be doing it more often and we wouldn't be discussing this. Saying you can just take back control is over simplifying the problem, which makes you part of it. There are deep-seated issues with the way our society works, and until we address them, we're not going to reclaim the disaffected.
Now, if you want me, I'll be over here, not being listened to.
The biggest problem I see is that high school is a cesspool. So many people give up that have so much ability because they are not popular in school. They give up because they are constantly picked on and tormented and worse our school system continues to allow this bullying and they even do bullying of their own by going after those outside kids that are outsiders because of the other kids.
The saddest part is none of that matters later in life. If you are good at math, science, reading etc you can become an engineer and make a VERY good living doing something that matters. You will have a degree that will get you into any country on earth and you can do things that truly matter. There are lots of things that smart people can do but in the public school system before college any of those abilities just get you tormented.
This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed in our society and I see pretty much nothing being done on it. So long as our society does this they will drive people to games and other people they will drive to mass killings. I suspect that most of those that become engineers, scientists, programmers etc can at least understand why those events happen.
It is so sad to see someone that is very good at math and science in school give up because they get picked on about it constantly even be teachers in some cases. They give up and withdraw when if they could just get through that system they would have great rewards.
Time and time again life has clearly stated that my existence is meaningless. If it weren't for my mom, I'd probably have already killed myself, or blown up a public building just to get noticed, if only in a negative light.
I actually just signed up for an account on this sight, JUST for the sole purpose of commenting on this. o_O
The other couple of epis on this were good, and this one continues a great chain, but I think it misses something really important: finding your fit among 6 billion+ cogs will not happen overnight. I've had a grand total of 5 jobs in my 12 years since the end of high school, and each one has given me skills to go on to the next. That's 12 years to find a place I *like* and *fit*, and would be glad to work at for the next *35-40 years*. That's a good ~20% of total time between school and retirement. TWENTY ****ING PERCENT. Double digits of percent. That's a low denominator fraction. But, I would not have gotten there without a lot of patience!
And I think that's what a lot of people forget, stuff takes TIME in the real world. It also takes perspective. 2 of my jobs, I stayed for quite some time, and I have been able to use both of them as stability examples. I know for a fact that 2 other jobs on that list were acquired because of that. Just because you work at some fast food joint now, doesn't mean that with some patience, you can't turn it into a serious plus later. To quote the Stones: "you can't always get what you want, but then, sometimes you get what you need".
The real problem is that the culture today is all about getting stuff NOW. Come hell or high water. Like Dan says in the vid, video games deliver that. Even Diablo 3 offers a higher progression rate than my job history! :-P
I call it my "Rut" and I've been trapped in one for years and years. EC, I love you guys so much because the Game Compulsion episodes touch me so deeply.
Hi EC. Because your great episode I came here to tell how I overcame my own depression, panic attacks and game compulsion. I managed to find a specific set of skills and tools that helped me and I’m going to tell of them for the sake of those who struggle with the same problems. This may or may not help you, give it a thought. I’m not a specialist and I’m just telling what I found helpful.
SELF-CONFIDENCE. I think that the cause of anxiety and the feeling of being lost is caused mostly because the lack of focus (aka. self-confidence). To me this reflected as always doubting myself and thinking what others think of me. There is a simple way of making you more self-confident. Self-confidence is about where you place your attention and giving 100% of yourself to that thing you are focusing. For example if you are focusing on designing games when walking in hallway and you walk past couple of girls who start to giggle. Usually I’d feel nervous but because my focus is in the place it should be, designing the new super awesome game, I won’t even note them. Having a conversation? Focus into finding something new about that person or make their day brighter.
ACCEPTANCE. I think many find the acceptance in themselves trough god, but that’s not necessary. You are okay the way you are. There. Simple. If you don’t accept your hobbies and special tastes do you think others will? No they won’t. Just be okay with them and talk about them like some random dude talked about cars! They’re not any less interesting or unacceptable unless you make them that way.
CHOICES. Life is full of choices and my panic attacks were caused by this. Trough most of my life I was used to ask what everybody thinks and come up together ”the best solution”. There was always a doubt if this was the right choice or not. The fact is that you don’t have to find the best solution. Just find a good one and stick with it. This will release a lot of doubt from your mind.
CONFLICT. The feeling of conflict is the feel in your chest and it’s caused by your actions going against your ideology. If something conflicts with who you are think, ”Is this something I could change about myself without sacrificing who I am?” and ”What would happen if I did adopt this belief?” After answering those questions I usual let the thing lay for a while and see how I change.
OPPOSITE GENDER. I found a lot of comfort in finding more about women. How to understand them on deeper level and how to make physical contact with them. Feeling great with women makes small light rays to my days. You can study with magazine or pickup books (but use your judgement because most of them are crap) to give you the basic guideline of how things work.
LIFE GOALS. I found my life goal through a friend who asked me to plan some plots. I got good feedback from her how good I was at it that I started studying game design to create great experiences. Be the one who gives good feedback to others and if you can find a partner who does the same thing. Having fun while working for your goal is the most fulfilling experience one can have. When you reach your goal it is important to get a new one. Don’t lose the track of your focus.
Most importantly give yourself time to change, it didn't happen for me in a moment either. Talk with your family and friends. We become accused to the feelings we are overall feeling in our life and seek more of that feeling, both negative and positive. Don’t try to get rid of your negative sides before taking action, just accept them. Every moment of your life is the best time to take action.
... Congratulations to the creators for producing this nauseatingly optimistically perspective on the 'meaning of life' debate. Now all those people out there who have withdrawn to games in order to fulfill a desire for accomplishment have yet another reason to feel bad about themselves.
The sad reality is that as with any form of life, there are some humans that simply don't have anything to offer the world and are effectively disposable.
Fortunately (and I say this with all the sarcasm it deserves), instead of allowing the world to filter out the evolutionary backward steps early on, we preserve them. We twist them lies of veiled significance in the hopes that naivety or simple stupidity will allow them to ignore the simple truths that they (as humans with the double edged blade of self awareness) have already come to understand.
In this particular era, theses people have an alternative to 60-70 years of unabated misery followed by a funeral-for-one and a date with an incinerator. These days said people can live (vicariously, but all the same) through the various forms or media and even derive some sense of pride through feats achieved or skill acquired in the virtual arena.
I say let these people have their psychological haven from a harsh and cruel reality. If the world at large really benefited from their contributions and desired their input, it would come for them of its own accord.
I definitely don't agree with that viewpoint at all. I have known many kids that are very good at math and science and society definitely needs them but they had a very hard time in school. Many of them were beaten up many times for being different and the schools do nothing to stop it. They end up retreating into themselves and away from the world.
The world definitely needs them and will reward them well for those skills but the world has to find them after they have hidden from all the pain.
We have created a very nasty society and it needs to be fixed. This whole competition thing of stabbing everyone else to get ahead is going to lead to our destruction. It may have worked to get us to this point but with our level of technology it is also going to wipe us out now. Our technology is progressing far faster than pretty much anyone knows and it won't be long before those very smart kids that are abused beyond what they can take build bioweapons instead of shooting up the school.
I am in college and working on something called iGEM right now. We are doing practical genetic engineering to try and improve peoples lives. Our project is actually to improve the tools and protocols used for genetic engineering to just improve the base engineering aspect of the field. Stuff that we are doing today was science fiction even 10 years ago. The world is changing more than you know and we need all the people we can get that can do this work.
The abuse has just flat out go to stop. If you are not willing to stop abusing others both in person and online to make yourself feel better maybe it is you that needs to change or go.
In their previous videos (I forget which ones) they explained a bit of why games appeal to those who feel like "society" has rejected them. It's not because these people are worthless and without function. It's because they have skills that are not valued by the spheres these "outcasts" operate in--especially high school. Those of you who are saying society would never take you back, are you perhaps in high school or college? Because those aren't reality--they're fake little worlds where the things that are valued ("popularity" as defined by disney channel, arrogance relabeled as confidence, ability to talk without saying anything meaningful) are in direct contrast to what's actually useful as an adult. Intellect, creativity, and problem solving are a cause for scorn in high school--but once you leave high school, they are what people are looking for. That doesn't mean you'll get a job immediately, but it does mean that the mocking you endured in the past doesn't apply anymore, and if you are still being mocked, the people mocking you are still in a high school mentality and not worth listening to.
Right... I'm sure those peasants and the village idiot of yesteryear felt that they had a purpose in life that they had to fulfill, and where very happy with their lives. And I bet the untouchables of India love how they fill the purpose of cleaning out shit on a daily basis. The reality is, unless you are a manager or rich person, you are an interchangeable part in the bigger machine. There are many of us out there that if we were to drop dead tomorrow jack shit would be affected - sure our loved ones would weep our passing, but other then that the world would keep on spinning, we would become forgotten, because the world and the people within it didn't need us.
Oh, and @Immudzen, how do you know those kids have a place in society? Because their 'smart'? Sorry, but humans hate smart people. "If everyone is blind the man with one eye is king?" Horseshit! If the blind find the mono-sighted man they will kill him out of jealously, because we are shit.
There were people like that in the medieval era who had no place outside of being some serf that could be replaced by another serf, or an outcast that if died no one would care. If there was no place for them then, than its shooting rainbows out of your fucking asshole to think that there is a place for everyone in a world of 7 billion people. There are only so many stations and positions that it won't be long before even the shit positions are taken.
Oh, and @RatherDashing89, have you any idea how the real world is exactly like highschool? Where cheaters win? Where the most important stations in our world are dictated to whomever can win popularity contests, and its based on Disney-channel popularity), or worse by whomever can beat up the most people or can throw the most money at people, just like highschool? Shit, have you even worked in a fucking office in your life? Corporate office culture is so much like fucking highschool!
It should be worth pointing out that kids don't shoot out schools because they were bullied loners looking for vengeance: that is a myth. In fact, what if I told you that the perpetrators of the Colombine Massacres were bullies themselves (Erik in fact was a pyschopath who did it because he thought it would be fun to kill a shitton of people)?
Ultimately, there are people that are worthless to society. I'm living with one: my older brother is severely autistic. He isn't going to earn his bread or do anything that is either going to better society or to provide a service to it and the people within it. If I had to justify his existence to a computer calculating the value of people (for things like who got priority for rations) would arguments like "he is my brother and he enriches my life for existing, and losing him would be heartbreaking" be enough of a justification? Remember, you are not a person in the eyes of someone who is not in your family or circle of friends, and therefore we all have to validate our existence to others who would be unable to fathom that we are people.
I love you guys. I don't have anything significant to add to the dialogue here. I just wanted to let you know, these videos are the highlight of my week, at least in terms of online media.
Also, five points to ya'll for the thief and the cobbler reference.
I wish this didn't hit that close to home, but it did. It's hard to keep that "Little Train That Could" attitude when things constantly get thrown back at you. It makes sense that my own problems are reflected and I can say all those situations apply to me.
I've been denied promotion 3 times, the last time for someone who had 1/28 my level of experience at the job. I'm passed over for recognition for people who, as was stated, are the popular ones or favorites. Employee of the month (and $5000) went to the biggest thief in the company because the supervisor needed that person to assume his lease and didn't have the money. Then to add insult to injury was given employee of the year (and another $20,000) right after he scammed the company for roughly the amount that he was awarded. It should be noted that he received that due to his recent friendship with the person who was just promoted to middle management (who has NEVER even worked in the field they are overseeing!).
Meanwhile I get a clap on the back from assistant supervisors saying that they don't know how they would manage without me, but this prestigious award remains outside my grasp. I remain at this job because there is no other job that will pay me what I need to support me and my special needs kids. I'm barely making it at all and when I apply outside, I'm either over qualified or I'm not currently in the position they are looking for (Somehow my 14 yrs of experience is nullified by my last 2.5 years as a rank and file employee). If I had stayed on unemployment for the last 2.5 years I would be better off for these interviews than actually supporting myself and my children.
I actually became so angry I typed "This society rewards losers." I think that just confirms it. At least I have great health insurance. I'm going to go see a shrink.
PS. Switchio, if a person is given a frame of reference, they can begin to find a solution. Not everyone is a "ditch digger." Some just fall from grace. From your rant, I can say I was you just a couple of years ago. It's easy to poke holes and point fingers. Try offering a solution instead of regurgitated negativity because you are starting to have your fall from grace. Otherwise, see you in MMO land.
It is worth reading Jane McGonigle's Reality is Broken for a perspective on the good games can bring to real life situations.
It isn't entirely applicable to this episode, but I did hear echoes of how games reward self-agency and that lesson can be put into action in other places, in this episode and that book.
All these reasons apply to all addictions ever. And they are absolutely nothing new. That's why most scientists focus on aspects that are inherent to game addictions and not on sociological reasons of addictions.
I can definitely relate to the sentiments in this video. I, too, sometimes wonder just what my purpose is and feel like I have no control over my direction. A good game certainly fills that void. You are in control, you know what needs to be done, and you know that if you do it, you will succeed. I wish life were so simple and fair.
I'm thankful that I've had plenty of successes, had my hard work pay off, and am in a position where I feel a sense of purpose and control; I rarely get to feeling lost and helpless, though it happens to all of us at times. But I can certainly understand how that feels and how people could get lost in gaming as an escape. I feel for you all.
Just remember, it's all an illusion. The world may be large and your place in it small, but you have more influence over yourself and your surroundings than might be obvious at first glance. The world may not always be fair or predictable, but exert yourself and you can tip the balance in your favour. The game world may feel predictable and controllable, but it's only a game. The real game -- life -- is right here waiting for you. Time is running out and there is no pause button. The only way to win the game is to play it.
Great video series as always. You're doing a wonderful service to us all. Keep it up!
This is precisely why the Skinner box element is important. Games operate in such a way as to gradually shape your behavior. They begin by rewarding completion of simple tasks and build up to more complex ones. This increases your confidence and allows you to take more risks. And often times, the punishment for failure isn't that big. This is why instructional programs based on these principles have so much empirical support for their effectiveness.
Life doesn't work that way. The small successes in life are rarely rewarded and failures often have big consequences. That greatly increases the chances of learned helplessness.
I see a lot of depressing commenting calling the idea "everyone matters" into question.
Let me just give another perspective on this issue.
If you are paid a salery. Any salery at all, it means someone, somewhere thinks you are providing a service worth said salery. Yes, the world keep spinning with the loss of an individual, but do not confuse that with an individual being meaningless. The reason why we have games are because teams of 200 people all do tiny 'meaningless' pieces of work for a greater goal.
Will or salery reflect your importance? No.
Because what will? Ask 10 people what they find make them "important", and you'll get different answers.
My big salery means I am useful to people
My job means I save people
In my job, I make products which are geniently useful
I do what I can to make the family work
Im not a crazy optimist, I'm not even saying everyone has a place in society. What I do say is everyone CAN have a place in society, if they make them selves useful to someone.
We don't have to all change the world. This isn't a video game :b
Right off the bat, you guys said "society" when there's more to the chain of causality. Just about any disfunction can be traced back to childhood abuse. This is not society, this is parents. It is true that society is patterned off of the top-down model of parenting since that's what so many people grow up with that they mistake it for human nature.
From there, the episode goes on to talk about succeeding in a game giving us purpose that we cannot find outside of games and I can scarcely think of a more dangerous conclusion. If we feel our lives are empty or meaningless, this is indicative of a profound lack of self-knowledge. Which as stated above, can come from being abused as a child by parents, care-givers, teachers, political leaders, etc that do nothing more than attempt to subjugate that person rather than nurture their abilities and self-worth.
It's important to study philosophy and learn from history and the current state of science as it pertains to human development. We're finally at a point that we can see all of this definitively. Even people raised in a loving home with egalitarian parents, who have a rich and successful life can benefit from this pursuit simply because we are still living in a world propagated by rule of force and coercion. Being normal in a screwed up world as it were.
In the absence of self-knowledge, any behavior meant to address a problem will only exacerbate that problem. If you have sex because you don't like yourself for example, you will end up liking yourself even less. If you play games to assign purpose to your life, you will feel as if your life has less purpose than before. I speak from experience as this episode more or less addresses the entirety of my adult life. I'm thankful that I've started studying philosophy and have a real shot at having a real life and happiness, a prospect I've never known before.
At any rate, accepting the episode's premise, I have an interesting contradiction and/or follow-up to point out/suggest. In a recent episode, the topic was why games seem to be easier than ever before. As I recall, the conclusion was that games have a bigger budget and need more paying customers to offset this and therefore need a larger player base. This runs contrary to this episode's conclusion that game compulsion can be used to attain a sense of accomplishment if we consider that what constitutes accomplishment is smaller and smaller these days.
Posts
I did want to say one thing, though. The time I was diagnosed with cancer is a constant reminder to me that I am *not* in control of my life's outcomes, only in control of my attitude. I've found peace in this situation because I really do believe there exists a higher power who is in control and does care about my life.
Btw, have you ever considered seriously applying the AA 12 steps to video game compulsion? I've found so, so much wisdom in them.
There are a couple 'other' reasons for video game addiction I think as well.
One is some people have an understanding to how frivolous this world is, that pretty much everything we do is unimportant and has no lasting value.
Many politicians from both parties try to make people wage war with each other, demonizing others who share different political, religious, philosophical, sexual, social, economic, and/or moral beliefs. After a while, people get tired of that b.s. Its bad enough to have to work at a job where you're less important than the equipment, raise children in a world where the schools and government think they're better equipped to raise children than the parents, and to attend religious organizations that either lie and say everything is ok, that nothing is 'bad' or that you're just scum that's bound for eternal damnation.
The point is, in video games, you can just chill out, you're not necessarily judged, even if you suck at a game, you can replay it again later on, when you want to. It takes your mind off how messed up this world is, and lets you not only relax, but interact with something that isn't going to depress or piss you off.
Another point is that in video games, you can do things you can't do in the 'real world.' How many of us are going to play in a Superbowl? Not everyone can or wants to be a warrior. I don't think many people would want to live out Dark Souls, Saints Row, Doom 3, etc. Its nice to be able to fantasize a bit as long as you don't mistake it for reality.
I'd never want to speed, but I love doing so in the Need for Speed series. I'd never drive a taxi, let alone what I do in Crazy Taxi. I'd never want to battle angels or demons, but I love Bayonetta, Darksiders, and similar games. I'd never want to attack a cop, but in Need for Speed Undercover, I've played entire sessions where I've tried to disable as many cops as possible.
Thanks! I do my best. ^^
If it's eloquent, it's not my fault, but that of my writing instructors.
I have been a pastor for many years and have found this topic discussed by everyone all the time! Thanks for giving me more tools to help gamers like us fit into our places in life!!
In science, what are the best kinds of experiments? The kinds with unbiased observers and researchers, who won't try to manipulate or interpret the information for their own ends. Of course this is not an ideal world, so it's impossible to get a 100% unbiased observer for any experiment. Even with double-blind studies, there has to, at some point, be a researcher or scientist who understands enough about the experiment's aims and background to make an informed decision. The key is to balance non-bias with insight and knowledge, so we try to get people that are AS unbiased as we possibly can.
Same thing here. True, your friends and family may be more biased then a complete stranger, but you can't just walk up to a stranger and ask "Why should I be found worthy?" because a) they don't know enough about you to tell you and b) they don't usually have time to learn (the exceptions being psychologists and psychiatrists, but that's why we pay them money).
But go too far in the other direction - listening to only yourself - and you'll have too much bias. After all, who has the most to gain or lose depending on the outcome of this argument? You, right? So you're naturally biased about your own self-worth and value in the world, thus making you one of the *worst* candidates to decide that.
So we can't ask strangers because they don't know, and we can't ask ourselves because we're biased. Who do you have left, if not yourself or strangers? The happy medium, of course: friends, family, and enemies. If you don't have enemies, then listen to what your friends and family say, and then listen to what you say, but intentionally lean more toward what friends and family say (more family then friends) because they'll always be less biased then you.
In fact, this is something that professional psychologists use for people with clinical depression, too: they hand you two self-assesment forms, one for you to fill out, and one for someone you like and trust to fill out, both the same, as well as an envelope to prevent you from seeing what they say about you. You give both of them back to the psychologist at the same time, and this helps them determine what is true about you and what your depression falsely biases you into thinking.
That's how I broke out of my depression rut. I hope this helps you and others out there who need it.
To Seek,
To Learn,
To Do.
-QFG2
If the speed of light is faster then the speed of sound, is that why people always appear bright until they speak? o_O
I'm thinking of moving my computer and games up to my room so I don't have to interact with the harsher parts of my life quite as frequently in fact...
That's what living with a disability is like sometimes; the very structure and shape of the world transforms into a crippling obstacle.
One thing I don't think you've addressed is that, in games, the consequences of failure are much less serious than in real life. Honestly, that's what's the hardest thing; the fear of failure, on top of the fear of a strange and alien world, is just too much to deal with sometimes.
'Tis too much proved, that with devotion's visage
And pious action we do sugar o'er
The devil himself.
It is often those who mean well who do the most harm to us in the end. Those who seek to help mend society's ills by throwing money at the problem rather than solving it lead us to unfulfilling jobs, stagnant politics, and the wretched conditions that many people in the inner cities live with every day. They don't understand the problem, so they can't begin to fix it. So instead of learning more about what's really wrong with our society, they throw money at the problem, either thinking that money will solve the problem, or hoping that money will make it go away.
In the 70's, doctors returned to the BRILLIANT idea that if they asked the patient where it hurt and what they had been doing just before the pain started, they MIGHT get some sort of a clue about what was wrong! Imagine! They also started listening to mothers who brought in their children because maybe the hysterical women could tell them what the child had been doing and give them clues as to what might be wrong with the child. It was considered revolutionary! Honestly, it was. Papers were published on the subject. I can't make this up.
And here we are, 40 years later (I know most of you weren't born yet, but its still important. Try to keep up). No one has realized that if you want to find out what's wrong with the job/stock/etc market, you don't hire a consultant to look at numbers and then make totally wrong guesses, you talk to the people the market has failed and find out what went wrong! It might be a good idea to ask the patient where it hurts, rather than phone up another doctor for a consultation before you enter the exam room.
If you want to cut down on compulsive/addictive behavior, find out what is driving it. Games aren't the problem, they're just the filler. And no, guys, control over your life isn't that simple to take back, otherwise people would be doing it more often and we wouldn't be discussing this. Saying you can just take back control is over simplifying the problem, which makes you part of it. There are deep-seated issues with the way our society works, and until we address them, we're not going to reclaim the disaffected.
Now, if you want me, I'll be over here, not being listened to.
Oh... AND I CALLED THIS 20 YEARS AGO!
The saddest part is none of that matters later in life. If you are good at math, science, reading etc you can become an engineer and make a VERY good living doing something that matters. You will have a degree that will get you into any country on earth and you can do things that truly matter. There are lots of things that smart people can do but in the public school system before college any of those abilities just get you tormented.
This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed in our society and I see pretty much nothing being done on it. So long as our society does this they will drive people to games and other people they will drive to mass killings. I suspect that most of those that become engineers, scientists, programmers etc can at least understand why those events happen.
It is so sad to see someone that is very good at math and science in school give up because they get picked on about it constantly even be teachers in some cases. They give up and withdraw when if they could just get through that system they would have great rewards.
Time and time again life has clearly stated that my existence is meaningless. If it weren't for my mom, I'd probably have already killed myself, or blown up a public building just to get noticed, if only in a negative light.
The other couple of epis on this were good, and this one continues a great chain, but I think it misses something really important: finding your fit among 6 billion+ cogs will not happen overnight. I've had a grand total of 5 jobs in my 12 years since the end of high school, and each one has given me skills to go on to the next. That's 12 years to find a place I *like* and *fit*, and would be glad to work at for the next *35-40 years*. That's a good ~20% of total time between school and retirement. TWENTY ****ING PERCENT. Double digits of percent. That's a low denominator fraction. But, I would not have gotten there without a lot of patience!
And I think that's what a lot of people forget, stuff takes TIME in the real world. It also takes perspective. 2 of my jobs, I stayed for quite some time, and I have been able to use both of them as stability examples. I know for a fact that 2 other jobs on that list were acquired because of that. Just because you work at some fast food joint now, doesn't mean that with some patience, you can't turn it into a serious plus later. To quote the Stones: "you can't always get what you want, but then, sometimes you get what you need".
The real problem is that the culture today is all about getting stuff NOW. Come hell or high water. Like Dan says in the vid, video games deliver that. Even Diablo 3 offers a higher progression rate than my job history! :-P
Could you tell me where you found the published papers on the doctor patient relationship?
I tried to pull out of my game world a bit but as I did life smacked me in the face with Kidney Failure in my senior year of high school.
Other health issues seem to follow now so yes I retreated back into games.
Games are also great for burning off frustration and to distract from my own pain not just to fill the void.
I'm 24 now and I think I need more duct tape and super glue to hold me together. what else does life have in store for me -_-
so far still trying to return to life but have given up pulling out of my games everyone needs some area to vent frustration and anger.
SELF-CONFIDENCE. I think that the cause of anxiety and the feeling of being lost is caused mostly because the lack of focus (aka. self-confidence). To me this reflected as always doubting myself and thinking what others think of me. There is a simple way of making you more self-confident. Self-confidence is about where you place your attention and giving 100% of yourself to that thing you are focusing. For example if you are focusing on designing games when walking in hallway and you walk past couple of girls who start to giggle. Usually I’d feel nervous but because my focus is in the place it should be, designing the new super awesome game, I won’t even note them. Having a conversation? Focus into finding something new about that person or make their day brighter.
ACCEPTANCE. I think many find the acceptance in themselves trough god, but that’s not necessary. You are okay the way you are. There. Simple. If you don’t accept your hobbies and special tastes do you think others will? No they won’t. Just be okay with them and talk about them like some random dude talked about cars! They’re not any less interesting or unacceptable unless you make them that way.
CHOICES. Life is full of choices and my panic attacks were caused by this. Trough most of my life I was used to ask what everybody thinks and come up together ”the best solution”. There was always a doubt if this was the right choice or not. The fact is that you don’t have to find the best solution. Just find a good one and stick with it. This will release a lot of doubt from your mind.
CONFLICT. The feeling of conflict is the feel in your chest and it’s caused by your actions going against your ideology. If something conflicts with who you are think, ”Is this something I could change about myself without sacrificing who I am?” and ”What would happen if I did adopt this belief?” After answering those questions I usual let the thing lay for a while and see how I change.
OPPOSITE GENDER. I found a lot of comfort in finding more about women. How to understand them on deeper level and how to make physical contact with them. Feeling great with women makes small light rays to my days. You can study with magazine or pickup books (but use your judgement because most of them are crap) to give you the basic guideline of how things work.
LIFE GOALS. I found my life goal through a friend who asked me to plan some plots. I got good feedback from her how good I was at it that I started studying game design to create great experiences. Be the one who gives good feedback to others and if you can find a partner who does the same thing. Having fun while working for your goal is the most fulfilling experience one can have. When you reach your goal it is important to get a new one. Don’t lose the track of your focus.
Most importantly give yourself time to change, it didn't happen for me in a moment either. Talk with your family and friends. We become accused to the feelings we are overall feeling in our life and seek more of that feeling, both negative and positive. Don’t try to get rid of your negative sides before taking action, just accept them. Every moment of your life is the best time to take action.
Life is the best game ever.
The sad reality is that as with any form of life, there are some humans that simply don't have anything to offer the world and are effectively disposable.
Fortunately (and I say this with all the sarcasm it deserves), instead of allowing the world to filter out the evolutionary backward steps early on, we preserve them. We twist them lies of veiled significance in the hopes that naivety or simple stupidity will allow them to ignore the simple truths that they (as humans with the double edged blade of self awareness) have already come to understand.
In this particular era, theses people have an alternative to 60-70 years of unabated misery followed by a funeral-for-one and a date with an incinerator. These days said people can live (vicariously, but all the same) through the various forms or media and even derive some sense of pride through feats achieved or skill acquired in the virtual arena.
I say let these people have their psychological haven from a harsh and cruel reality. If the world at large really benefited from their contributions and desired their input, it would come for them of its own accord.
I definitely don't agree with that viewpoint at all. I have known many kids that are very good at math and science and society definitely needs them but they had a very hard time in school. Many of them were beaten up many times for being different and the schools do nothing to stop it. They end up retreating into themselves and away from the world.
The world definitely needs them and will reward them well for those skills but the world has to find them after they have hidden from all the pain.
We have created a very nasty society and it needs to be fixed. This whole competition thing of stabbing everyone else to get ahead is going to lead to our destruction. It may have worked to get us to this point but with our level of technology it is also going to wipe us out now. Our technology is progressing far faster than pretty much anyone knows and it won't be long before those very smart kids that are abused beyond what they can take build bioweapons instead of shooting up the school.
I am in college and working on something called iGEM right now. We are doing practical genetic engineering to try and improve peoples lives. Our project is actually to improve the tools and protocols used for genetic engineering to just improve the base engineering aspect of the field. Stuff that we are doing today was science fiction even 10 years ago. The world is changing more than you know and we need all the people we can get that can do this work.
The abuse has just flat out go to stop. If you are not willing to stop abusing others both in person and online to make yourself feel better maybe it is you that needs to change or go.
WAIT OMG 4:47 THAT'S MY SEWING MACHINE
Oh, and @Immudzen, how do you know those kids have a place in society? Because their 'smart'? Sorry, but humans hate smart people. "If everyone is blind the man with one eye is king?" Horseshit! If the blind find the mono-sighted man they will kill him out of jealously, because we are shit.
There were people like that in the medieval era who had no place outside of being some serf that could be replaced by another serf, or an outcast that if died no one would care. If there was no place for them then, than its shooting rainbows out of your fucking asshole to think that there is a place for everyone in a world of 7 billion people. There are only so many stations and positions that it won't be long before even the shit positions are taken.
Oh, and @RatherDashing89, have you any idea how the real world is exactly like highschool? Where cheaters win? Where the most important stations in our world are dictated to whomever can win popularity contests, and its based on Disney-channel popularity), or worse by whomever can beat up the most people or can throw the most money at people, just like highschool? Shit, have you even worked in a fucking office in your life? Corporate office culture is so much like fucking highschool!
It should be worth pointing out that kids don't shoot out schools because they were bullied loners looking for vengeance: that is a myth. In fact, what if I told you that the perpetrators of the Colombine Massacres were bullies themselves (Erik in fact was a pyschopath who did it because he thought it would be fun to kill a shitton of people)?
Ultimately, there are people that are worthless to society. I'm living with one: my older brother is severely autistic. He isn't going to earn his bread or do anything that is either going to better society or to provide a service to it and the people within it. If I had to justify his existence to a computer calculating the value of people (for things like who got priority for rations) would arguments like "he is my brother and he enriches my life for existing, and losing him would be heartbreaking" be enough of a justification? Remember, you are not a person in the eyes of someone who is not in your family or circle of friends, and therefore we all have to validate our existence to others who would be unable to fathom that we are people.
Also, five points to ya'll for the thief and the cobbler reference.
I've been denied promotion 3 times, the last time for someone who had 1/28 my level of experience at the job. I'm passed over for recognition for people who, as was stated, are the popular ones or favorites. Employee of the month (and $5000) went to the biggest thief in the company because the supervisor needed that person to assume his lease and didn't have the money. Then to add insult to injury was given employee of the year (and another $20,000) right after he scammed the company for roughly the amount that he was awarded. It should be noted that he received that due to his recent friendship with the person who was just promoted to middle management (who has NEVER even worked in the field they are overseeing!).
Meanwhile I get a clap on the back from assistant supervisors saying that they don't know how they would manage without me, but this prestigious award remains outside my grasp. I remain at this job because there is no other job that will pay me what I need to support me and my special needs kids. I'm barely making it at all and when I apply outside, I'm either over qualified or I'm not currently in the position they are looking for (Somehow my 14 yrs of experience is nullified by my last 2.5 years as a rank and file employee). If I had stayed on unemployment for the last 2.5 years I would be better off for these interviews than actually supporting myself and my children.
I actually became so angry I typed "This society rewards losers." I think that just confirms it. At least I have great health insurance. I'm going to go see a shrink.
PS. Switchio, if a person is given a frame of reference, they can begin to find a solution. Not everyone is a "ditch digger." Some just fall from grace. From your rant, I can say I was you just a couple of years ago. It's easy to poke holes and point fingers. Try offering a solution instead of regurgitated negativity because you are starting to have your fall from grace. Otherwise, see you in MMO land.
It isn't entirely applicable to this episode, but I did hear echoes of how games reward self-agency and that lesson can be put into action in other places, in this episode and that book.
I'm thankful that I've had plenty of successes, had my hard work pay off, and am in a position where I feel a sense of purpose and control; I rarely get to feeling lost and helpless, though it happens to all of us at times. But I can certainly understand how that feels and how people could get lost in gaming as an escape. I feel for you all.
Just remember, it's all an illusion. The world may be large and your place in it small, but you have more influence over yourself and your surroundings than might be obvious at first glance. The world may not always be fair or predictable, but exert yourself and you can tip the balance in your favour. The game world may feel predictable and controllable, but it's only a game. The real game -- life -- is right here waiting for you. Time is running out and there is no pause button. The only way to win the game is to play it.
Great video series as always. You're doing a wonderful service to us all. Keep it up!
Life doesn't work that way. The small successes in life are rarely rewarded and failures often have big consequences. That greatly increases the chances of learned helplessness.
Let me just give another perspective on this issue.
If you are paid a salery. Any salery at all, it means someone, somewhere thinks you are providing a service worth said salery. Yes, the world keep spinning with the loss of an individual, but do not confuse that with an individual being meaningless. The reason why we have games are because teams of 200 people all do tiny 'meaningless' pieces of work for a greater goal.
Will or salery reflect your importance? No.
Because what will? Ask 10 people what they find make them "important", and you'll get different answers.
My big salery means I am useful to people
My job means I save people
In my job, I make products which are geniently useful
I do what I can to make the family work
Im not a crazy optimist, I'm not even saying everyone has a place in society. What I do say is everyone CAN have a place in society, if they make them selves useful to someone.
We don't have to all change the world. This isn't a video game :b
From there, the episode goes on to talk about succeeding in a game giving us purpose that we cannot find outside of games and I can scarcely think of a more dangerous conclusion. If we feel our lives are empty or meaningless, this is indicative of a profound lack of self-knowledge. Which as stated above, can come from being abused as a child by parents, care-givers, teachers, political leaders, etc that do nothing more than attempt to subjugate that person rather than nurture their abilities and self-worth.
It's important to study philosophy and learn from history and the current state of science as it pertains to human development. We're finally at a point that we can see all of this definitively. Even people raised in a loving home with egalitarian parents, who have a rich and successful life can benefit from this pursuit simply because we are still living in a world propagated by rule of force and coercion. Being normal in a screwed up world as it were.
In the absence of self-knowledge, any behavior meant to address a problem will only exacerbate that problem. If you have sex because you don't like yourself for example, you will end up liking yourself even less. If you play games to assign purpose to your life, you will feel as if your life has less purpose than before. I speak from experience as this episode more or less addresses the entirety of my adult life. I'm thankful that I've started studying philosophy and have a real shot at having a real life and happiness, a prospect I've never known before.
At any rate, accepting the episode's premise, I have an interesting contradiction and/or follow-up to point out/suggest. In a recent episode, the topic was why games seem to be easier than ever before. As I recall, the conclusion was that games have a bigger budget and need more paying customers to offset this and therefore need a larger player base. This runs contrary to this episode's conclusion that game compulsion can be used to attain a sense of accomplishment if we consider that what constitutes accomplishment is smaller and smaller these days.