NASL as an org apologized, which means more than what MrBitter said.
It's pretty racist to point to someone and say "haha look at this dude he's a different race so he's different from me." Like...this community is overwhelmingly white or southeast asian, being like HAHA LOOK THIS DUDE'S BLACK THAT'S SO DIFFERENT is not good.
These last two games have been back and forth like a mofo.
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Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited August 2013
Singling out a person for their race is kind of a fucked thing to do. If I went to an event and everyone was like OH LOOK AT THIS ASIAN GUY (not that I'm equating Asians and African-Americans, because holy shit, weight of history guys) I would not be happy.
PROTIP: Probably don't bring race into anything! Especially with a race that still struggles with racism.
Even if it hadn't been a black person, if it was like, HEY LOOK AT THIS WHITE GIRL. That would also be fucked.
Regardless of his intentions, doing something like this is a sign that you probably don't belong in front of a camera as a host/interviewer/thing and it makes everyone involved look bad.
What he did was deeply lame, so I think it's even stevens.
And what exactly was so terrible?
"I'm sitting next to this guy. For diversity. Because he's darker."
You really don't see the issue there?
I actually don't
did they fire him on the spot? must have happened pretty quickly
Pointing out someone's race as something that makes them different (which is precisely what that comment was meant to do) is pretty bad.
I dunno. I am usually hesitant to take stances on these things because I've been taught a lot (on these forums no less) but I really don't think making a joke about diversity is offensive.
we -often- as a society consider diversity to be achieved by including people of multiple different races. wherein the only difference is, in fact, their race.
unless you want to say diversity is bad because it implies you get something different when you have a variety of people and how dare you say people of different races are different, I think you have to let this go.
Taeja's marine control seems much sloppier than Polt's: Taeja has repeatedly let his marine groups run into obviously overwhelming amounts of tank fire. Shame, because I'd really fucking like to see Polt lose.
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jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
if you choose not to and the other person guesses correctly
Thats luck. The guy cheesing has no way of knowing if he's gonna get scouted or not. Its a gamble. Yes the opponent *can* scout, thats a gamble as well. And when these two gambles align in the way that lets the cheeser get a free win, thats just the cheeser getting lucky.
it's not blind luck when you've played the same person 5 times in a row
or when you can infer what they'll do from their style or even the meta
scouting isn't a gamble. not scouting is a gamble. scouting lets you know what you need to know no matter what. you lose some mining time in exchange but you gain knowledge 100% of the time.
Hey look, I'm not saying that cheese is in any way illegitimate as a way to play in a series, or that mindgames, and metagaming aren't something which is important.
Its just not really that fun to watch, especially when you're on the losing side of it in terms of who you want to win, regardless of what sport we're talking about.
and re: Terry.
Yeah, seriously. How is that going to play out in an interview:
"so how did this summer internship go?"
"er......"
I mean, the guy basically can't do anything esports, or even internet related now. Which is obviously where he wanted to be heading.
Sucks to be him, basically.
edit: And apparently the whole world hasn't gone insane. Good.
The joke was clearly that starcraft / esports is pretty white, and thats about it. At least thats how I took it.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
if you choose not to and the other person guesses correctly
Thats luck. The guy cheesing has no way of knowing if he's gonna get scouted or not. Its a gamble. Yes the opponent *can* scout, thats a gamble as well. And when these two gambles align in the way that lets the cheeser get a free win, thats just the cheeser getting lucky.
it's not blind luck when you've played the same person 5 times in a row
or when you can infer what they'll do from their style or even the meta
scouting isn't a gamble. not scouting is a gamble. scouting lets you know what you need to know no matter what. you lose some mining time in exchange but you gain knowledge 100% of the time.
Hey look, I'm not saying that cheese is in any way illegitimate as a way to play in a series, or that mindgames, and metagaming aren't something which is important.
Its just not really that fun to watch, especially when you're on the losing side of it in terms of who you want to win, regardless of what sport we're talking about.
and re: Terry.
Yeah, seriously. How is that going to play out in an interview:
"so how did this summer internship go?"
"er......"
I mean, the guy basically can't do anything esports, or even internet related now. Which is obviously where he wanted to be heading.
Sucks to be him, basically.
Not really. Turns out he wasn't fired, so any questions about the internship would be like "Oh yeah, I was pretty popular. There was one hiccup about a joke that some people didn't like, but otherwise people really liked it".
if you choose not to and the other person guesses correctly
Thats luck. The guy cheesing has no way of knowing if he's gonna get scouted or not. Its a gamble. Yes the opponent *can* scout, thats a gamble as well. And when these two gambles align in the way that lets the cheeser get a free win, thats just the cheeser getting lucky.
it's not blind luck when you've played the same person 5 times in a row
or when you can infer what they'll do from their style or even the meta
scouting isn't a gamble. not scouting is a gamble. scouting lets you know what you need to know no matter what. you lose some mining time in exchange but you gain knowledge 100% of the time.
Hey look, I'm not saying that cheese is in any way illegitimate as a way to play in a series, or that mindgames, and metagaming aren't something which is important.
Its just not really that fun to watch, especially when you're on the losing side of it in terms of who you want to win, regardless of what sport we're talking about.
well okay, that I'm fine with. sorry if I got overly riled up.
I don't mind it but then I grew into sc2 cheering for korean terrans in 2010/2011 (...2012...) so I didn't have much of a choice
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
I don't think it was motivated by hatred or anything, I'm sure he meant will.
But race as a topic is really just best to keep out of humor because there are still so many racial issues in our society.
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
I agree with you.
Generally we are far far too insecure and overly sensitive about a lot of things that aren't really that important, or are blown way out of proportion and used to pitchfork out of a self-righteous desire.
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mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
Can we officially take the Panzergeneral title from Goody and give it to Polt?
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
I don't think it was motivated by hatred or anything, I'm sure he meant will.
But race as a topic is really just best to keep out of humor because there are still so many racial issues in our society.
There's also like twelve black guys in all of korea, so I think he probably lacked the EXTREME CAUTION necessary caution to approach the topic in the US
NASL as an org apologized, which means more than what MrBitter said.
It's pretty racist to point to someone and say "haha look at this dude he's a different race so he's different from me." Like...this community is overwhelmingly white or southeast asian, being like HAHA LOOK THIS DUDE'S BLACK THAT'S SO DIFFERENT is not good.
If the standard for "what's racist" is ignoring objective reality, then I think that says more about white guilt than it does about actual racism, personally. I'm dropping it after this, though.
Hopefully Polt stomps JD's butt next series.
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mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
I agree with you.
Generally we are far far too insecure and overly sensitive about a lot of things that aren't really that important, or are blown way out of proportion and used to pitchfork out of a self-righteous desire.
I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I (and many others in this forum) would be glad to carry on this conversation in a separate thread. It is easy to say that these things aren't really that important, but someone being boiled down to their skin color is a FUCKED thing to do. And there is significant racism, sexism, and ESPECIALLY transphobia in modern society. It's hardly being insecure or overly sensitive to try to correct that.
I can agree he didn't need to say it, and also that he doesn't belong in front of a camera (even though it was that awkwardness that made his man on the street videos so funny)
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
I agree with you.
Generally we are far far too insecure and overly sensitive about a lot of things that aren't really that important, or are blown way out of proportion and used to pitchfork out of a self-righteous desire.
I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I (and many others in this forum) would be glad to carry on this conversation in a separate thread. It is easy to say that these things aren't really that important, but someone being boiled down to their skin color is a FUCKED thing to do. And there is significant racism, sexism, and ESPECIALLY transphobia in modern society. It's hardly being insecure or overly sensitive to try to correct that.
there are absolutely problems in modern society. 100%. we see a lot of them in the circles we run in (gamers/nerds/internet/etc)
however, going up to a minority in a crowd when presumably you've only been talking to white dudes and saying that that achieves diversity is not racist. unless, as I said before, you want to say diversity is a bad thing because it implies people of different races are different.
I don't think we need a thread because in general I'm gonna agree with you on everything. this is a pretty specific case though. I'd be fine with dropping it as I've made my point but I know that's easy for me to say since once I hit 'post' I'll have had the last word :P
mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
I'm happy for whoever advances to advance. These are both awesome players, and I love them both. Two titans locked in ferocious combat. "It's like one of my japanese Animes."
I love Taeja because he's in TL, has so much promise, and has made some of the most unbelievable comebacks ever.
Not to mention he took out entire Korean teams back to back to almost single-handedly win the NASL team league.
Those were some of the most viewer-passionate moments I've ever had.
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mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
edited August 2013
Last comment from me on this too:
however, going up to a minority in a crowd when presumably you've only been talking to white dudes and saying that that achieves diversity is not racist. unless, as I said before, you want to say diversity is a bad thing because it implies people of different races are different.
I wouldn't be saying boo if he'd just interviewed a black guy; asked him if he was having a good time, who he was rooting for, etc. But I think it's crass to say "Hey check it out, we've got an [X minority] in the audience!"
Holy shit that's awesome. Dota is rocketing up the popularity charts, it's awesome. It's a shame that competitors try dirty tactics to get ahead, but more esports in general is a good thing (even if SC2 isn't on top )
Posts
NASL as an org apologized, which means more than what MrBitter said.
It's pretty racist to point to someone and say "haha look at this dude he's a different race so he's different from me." Like...this community is overwhelmingly white or southeast asian, being like HAHA LOOK THIS DUDE'S BLACK THAT'S SO DIFFERENT is not good.
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wra
PROTIP: Probably don't bring race into anything! Especially with a race that still struggles with racism.
Even if it hadn't been a black person, if it was like, HEY LOOK AT THIS WHITE GIRL. That would also be fucked.
Regardless of his intentions, doing something like this is a sign that you probably don't belong in front of a camera as a host/interviewer/thing and it makes everyone involved look bad.
phew. I think it was all in good fun.
As for Gretorp's... yeah...
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wra
I dunno. I am usually hesitant to take stances on these things because I've been taught a lot (on these forums no less) but I really don't think making a joke about diversity is offensive.
we -often- as a society consider diversity to be achieved by including people of multiple different races. wherein the only difference is, in fact, their race.
unless you want to say diversity is bad because it implies you get something different when you have a variety of people and how dare you say people of different races are different, I think you have to let this go.
Hey look, I'm not saying that cheese is in any way illegitimate as a way to play in a series, or that mindgames, and metagaming aren't something which is important.
Its just not really that fun to watch, especially when you're on the losing side of it in terms of who you want to win, regardless of what sport we're talking about.
and re: Terry.
Yeah, seriously. How is that going to play out in an interview:
"so how did this summer internship go?"
"er......"
I mean, the guy basically can't do anything esports, or even internet related now. Which is obviously where he wanted to be heading.
Sucks to be him, basically.
edit: And apparently the whole world hasn't gone insane. Good.
The joke was clearly that starcraft / esports is pretty white, and thats about it. At least thats how I took it.
don't think it was that bad, DO think an apology is appropriate, glad he didn't get fired for it
Not really. Turns out he wasn't fired, so any questions about the internship would be like "Oh yeah, I was pretty popular. There was one hiccup about a joke that some people didn't like, but otherwise people really liked it".
So it doesnt really fit into the jaziek apocalyptic view of the world
STEAM!
well okay, that I'm fine with. sorry if I got overly riled up.
I don't mind it but then I grew into sc2 cheering for korean terrans in 2010/2011 (...2012...) so I didn't have much of a choice
I don't think it was motivated by hatred or anything, I'm sure he meant will.
But race as a topic is really just best to keep out of humor because there are still so many racial issues in our society.
I agree with you.
Generally we are far far too insecure and overly sensitive about a lot of things that aren't really that important, or are blown way out of proportion and used to pitchfork out of a self-righteous desire.
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wra
Polt makes marines.
No panzer.
I do hope this next TvT turns into something other than marine / tank / medivac though.
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wra
That's a profile that belongs on money.
There's also like twelve black guys in all of korea, so I think he probably lacked the EXTREME CAUTION necessary caution to approach the topic in the US
I was just like "Oh, he just went for it"
STEAM!
If the standard for "what's racist" is ignoring objective reality, then I think that says more about white guilt than it does about actual racism, personally. I'm dropping it after this, though.
Hopefully Polt stomps JD's butt next series.
Unacceptable. Submit to Sabaton for re-education.
I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I (and many others in this forum) would be glad to carry on this conversation in a separate thread. It is easy to say that these things aren't really that important, but someone being boiled down to their skin color is a FUCKED thing to do. And there is significant racism, sexism, and ESPECIALLY transphobia in modern society. It's hardly being insecure or overly sensitive to try to correct that.
Anyway, I've come to a conclusion.
I want Taeja to take the tourney.
He hasn't won anything in a long while.
I want to see the Korean Team Killer rise once more!
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wra
there are absolutely problems in modern society. 100%. we see a lot of them in the circles we run in (gamers/nerds/internet/etc)
however, going up to a minority in a crowd when presumably you've only been talking to white dudes and saying that that achieves diversity is not racist. unless, as I said before, you want to say diversity is a bad thing because it implies people of different races are different.
I don't think we need a thread because in general I'm gonna agree with you on everything. this is a pretty specific case though. I'd be fine with dropping it as I've made my point but I know that's easy for me to say since once I hit 'post' I'll have had the last word :P
no doubt.
eg vs tl finals too! I forgot.
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wra
not that I mind it but why do you hate polt?
I love Taeja because he's in TL, has so much promise, and has made some of the most unbelievable comebacks ever.
Not to mention he took out entire Korean teams back to back to almost single-handedly win the NASL team league.
Those were some of the most viewer-passionate moments I've ever had.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I wouldn't be saying boo if he'd just interviewed a black guy; asked him if he was having a good time, who he was rooting for, etc. But I think it's crass to say "Hey check it out, we've got an [X minority] in the audience!"
TI3 street viewing party at 6 AM in Malaysia.
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wra
a rising tide raises all boats
The more things change, the more they stay the same I guess.