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DOOM: Ripping and Tearing After All These Years

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    I'm almost certain (Like 99%) that the rights to Doom never left id softwares hands until they were purchased by Zenimax.

    When they made Doom, they were a small independant shop who sold the game through shareware, which they made bank off of; so much so that when it came time to go retail, id had a lot of the power when they negotiated with GT Interactive. GT (and later Activision) had publishing rights, but id always retained the rights to the game content.

  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    I'm almost certain (Like 99%) that the rights to Doom never left id softwares hands until they were purchased by Zenimax.

    When they made Doom, they were a small independant shop who sold the game through shareware, which they made bank off of; so much so that when it came time to go retail, id had a lot of the power when they negotiated with GT Interactive. GT (and later Activision) had publishing rights, but id always retained the rights to the game content.
    Yeah, id's properties have been pretty difficult to keep track of from the start - originally Rise of the Triad was supposed to be a sequel to Wolfenstein 3D, which was published by Apogee, but since id was working on Doom at the time they didn't want their properties clashing, forcing the change to RoTT. RoTT characters Taradino Cassat, Lorelei Ni and Doug Wendt were originally supposed to be in Doom before id reworked everything. Eventually id's properties were licensed to Activision (from Quake 2 through Wolfenstein '09 I believe) before they went to ZeniMax/Bethesda, so stuff like Wolfenstein and The Ultimate Doom weren't available on Steam or XBLA until everything was ironed out.
    August wrote:
    Samsara is pretty great you guys
    Yeah, it's a really great project, very well realized and balanced while staying true to every little nuance of each character's origins and playstyles. Of course then you have insane things like Duke Nukem blowing the hell out of the Flemoids in Chex Quest, or Marathon's Security Officer plowing through Hexen's monsters, which makes it even more awesome.

    Speaking of weapon mods, here's a new WIP that's been pretty fun to try: X-Weapons. And, lo and behold, we already have "Call of DOOty III". . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0AdWBmiQY


  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Gonna Arch-Vile this thread for a bit, not just because I updated (slightly) my Doom 2.5 Weapons mod with an actual Pistol Zombie (which makes the fact that they drop pistols much more sense), but also because of this little oddity:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wl7Hu4yuak
    Yeah, for those who can't get enough of a bodycount in their maps, you can keep splitting enemies into smaller ones, like a Matryoshka doll of hellspawn. (You might wanna mute the video, because the song selection is pretty bad.)

    EDIT: And the official, allegedly bug-free release of Doom II The Way id Did. That too.

    Grimthwacker on
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Neat, I will have to check out the way id did. What other mega wads are worth playing through?

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I've only just started Doom The Way id Did! Damn I've got a lot of Demons to kill this week...

    Edit: @Uselesswarrior, I really enjoyed Winter's Fury, but be ready for a decent challenge. Not just with well thought out placement and number of monsters, but ammo drops too. You'll find yourself changing weapons a bit due to ammo shortages

    TeeMan on
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  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    Winter's Fury was a fantastic level set that really made great use of GZDoom's features. Other recommended megawads include Hadephobia, Hellbound, Doom II Rebirth, and Vile Flesh. That'll keep you for a while.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    I played Oculus Rift doom. I was almost literally knee deep in the dead. I also DIDN'T vomit.

    13 year old me would have gone absolutely insane for this.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I jelly.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I played Oculus Rift doom. I was almost literally knee deep in the dead. I also DIDN'T vomit.

    13 year old me would have gone absolutely insane for this.

    You know, Descent had VR support just two years after doom released...

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Neat, I will have to check out the way id did. What other mega wads are worth playing through?

    I really like Community Chest 4 and Lunatic a lot.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Not quite Doom related, but still in the vein of the discussion - back in the day, me and my best friend were basically addicted to Action Quake 2. We'd go to this computer club we belonged to on weekends and participate in 16-person death match, then come home later that night, bring our PC and monitors into my bedroom, and play Action Quake 2 in local deathmatch from across the room. It is, still, to this day, the best multiplayer gaming memories I have for any game.

    I bought Quake 2 Netpack 1 yesterday for a couple of bucks because it includes the final version of Action Quake 2. I know I could download it online for free, but having a physical disk with it is awesome. My friend is coming to visit in december. I have a 233 mhz Pentium with a voodoo 2 running action quake 2 in one room, and a Power Mac G4 running action quake 2 in the other room, connected to a private network. Can't wait to play this game again.

  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    So thread, finally, after having played DOOM off and on since I was 5 years old (Release, natch) last night I finally torched my first spiderdemon with a BFG. Happy birthday you old bastard, here's hoping for more good times and ripping and tearing.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    speaking of the BFG, despite being in the game and unlockable via a code, why the fuck was it excluded from the 32X version of Doom?

    It's funny, I have a ton of memories of Doom and liking the game and everything, but the first time I actually owned it, I remember being massively disappointed because it was the 32X version. I think, more than anything else, that port taints my perception of the console. Just... supreme disappointment.

    The best feature - monster in-fighting, was removed entirely!

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Yeah, infighting and speed are probably the first two things I associate with Doom that makes it truly special to me. Just the fact that you can mow down hundreds of enemies in minutes is boner inducing. Then when you get into shaving that time down it starts to really shine. And infighting is super fun way to shave those times down.

    Drake on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Drake wrote: »
    Yeah, infighting and speed are probably the first two things I associate with Doom that makes it truly special to me. Just the fact that you can mow down hundreds of enemies in minutes is boner inducing. Then when you get into shaving that time down it starts to really shine. And infighting is super fun way to shave those times down.

    I definitely agree about speed and being able to mow down enemies, and that goes for a lot of games. It's actually something i really dislike about Unreal, how, with a standard gun, those big bruting enemies would take like 20 shots to kill. Just ruins the pacing.

    Along the same lines, I realized during a playthrough of Devil may Cry that I dislike when I have to hit an enemy like 50 times, and each hit doesn't really do anything to them at all, other than makes them look like they're hurt. Even if the combat system is excellent (and in DMC3 it is), the need to pound these enemies for hundreds of blows just turns me off. I notice it a lot in games now, I flat out don't like damage sponges.

    Doom is terrific about not having damage sponges. Everything can, eventually, die in 1 hit. And even the things that require multiple hits still let you fly through the level around them, never stopping once to, like, reload or aim or anything. Just speeeeeeeed all the way through.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    You most certainly cannot kill Spider Masterminds and Cyberdemons with one-shot; even with the BFG at point blank range (if you can even get that close without being pasted.)

    The two barons of hell in E1M8 also can't be one-shotted, due to no BFG being available and them taking like 10 rockets each to take down.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    it is possible to kill a Spider Mastermind AND cyberdemon in Doom 2 by firing just a single bullet from your weakest weapon. As in, 1 bullet to take out both.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    any of you guys ever play the doom board game? its co-op, and it looks like it could be fun.

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    it is possible to kill a Spider Mastermind AND cyberdemon in Doom 2 by firing just a single bullet from your weakest weapon. As in, 1 bullet to take out both.

    How?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    it is possible to kill a Spider Mastermind AND cyberdemon in Doom 2 by firing just a single bullet from your weakest weapon. As in, 1 bullet to take out both.

    How?

    it happens in two different maps, where they are placed together facing opposite directions when you enter the room. A well placed bullet aimed at the foe farthest away will get them in-fighting, killing them both while you are free to jut around the rooms, picking up stuff at your leisure.

  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Yeah, map 20 in particular, "Gotcha!", is specifically designed for that at its centerpiece. I think that, left to their own self-destruction, the Cyberdemon usually wins.

  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    Knowing how infighting works is pretty much mandatory for some parts of various user-made maps and WADs. Saves you a ton of ammo that you would completely waste trying to plow it into hard targets and boss enemies. Let the mooks do all the work for you!
    speaking of the BFG, despite being in the game and unlockable via a code, why the fuck was it excluded from the 32X version of Doom?

    It's funny, I have a ton of memories of Doom and liking the game and everything, but the first time I actually owned it, I remember being massively disappointed because it was the 32X version. I think, more than anything else, that port taints my perception of the console. Just... supreme disappointment.

    The best feature - monster in-fighting, was removed entirely!
    Oh god. . . I actually gave that a rent, hoping it would be as good as the PC version. Boy, was I ever wrong. The music was terrible, the graphics were bad, and everything great about the game was sucked right out. The only thing that gave me something of a smile was after the credits, when it puts up the DOS prompt. . . even that was a slap in the face, though.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    That was actually a bug, haha.

  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    That was actually a bug, haha.
    . . . You're kidding me.

    uaum.jpg

    Grimthwacker on
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    It also missed some monsters (spectres, spider mastermind, cyberdemon) and the BFG, which is a trait shared by some other ports, like the Jaguar's. Interestingly, the otherwise-ghetto SNES version had them (still no infighting). Other versions were jacked up in ways in varying severity, though the 3DO had a pretty rad remastered soundtrack.

    It seemed to have taken a long ass time to get ports that matched the DOS version.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    I didn't know there was no BFG in Doom 32X.

    On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have Doom 3, which gives out BFGs like candy. I picked up four over the course of the game the last time I played through.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    In the original Doom, didn't the BFG work based upon what you could see? So if you fired it in one direction but then spun your view around the other way, whatever you could see got toasted?

    Or am I completely making that up?

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    I think Doom 4 should be a modern game engine...but sprite based. Fast movement, tons of weapons, tons of enemies, and tons of cartoonish gore and death animations.

  • LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    I want Doom 4 to take a page from the Metro book of How To Create Creepy Environments That Kill You.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    In the original Doom, didn't the BFG work based upon what you could see? So if you fired it in one direction but then spun your view around the other way, whatever you could see got toasted?

    Or am I completely making that up?
    Actually, the BFG "shot" was actually an initial solid blast that emitted fourty invisible projectiles which hitscanned in whatever direction it was fired afterwards. Quoting the Doom Wiki article:
    When the trigger is pulled, there is a pause of 30 tics (about 0.857 seconds) before a green and white plasma ball is ejected. If the large plasma ball hits a solid object, it explodes and causes 100-800 hit points of damage to the target, in round multiples of 100.

    After a further pause of 16 tics (about 0.457 seconds), additional damage is calculated: 40 invisible tracer rays are emitted by the player in a cone-shaped area (about 45° half-angle) in the direction the plasma ball was fired. (If the player has turned around, the direction of the rays does not change — they are still traced in the direction of firing of the original plasma ball. If he has moved to another location, their origin moves along with him.) Each ray causes 49-87 points of damage if it hits a solid object within 1024 map units. Even cyberdemons and spiderdemons, which are immune to blast damage, are affected by these rays.
    So yeah, kinda sorta, but the damage is centered mostly around where the blast goes. It's always interesting to read about the little nuances of Doom's weapons, like the fact that firing a single shot from the pistol or chaingun as opposed to holding fire down is 100% accurate.

    Grimthwacker on
  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    For anybody who might not have played through Winter's Fury yet (or might have had some difficulty), Pyroscourge has released a new updated version that should address many of the issues people have had. Now that's dedication to his craft. I might be tempted into giving it a second playthrough myself!

    Also, for those wanting a reeeealllly stiff challenge, Mr. Chris' Brutalized Doom and Doom II Overkill are now available - these tweaked maps up the enemy count significantly for more intense action. Case in point:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAde5NS0z5Y

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I just found this last night. It's interesting to see how far it's, and alllllll the mods, have come

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6YTBTSsrqU

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    EDIT: And the official, allegedly bug-free release of Doom II The Way id Did. That too.

    Even after reading the description, I don't understand what this is.

  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    EDIT: And the official, allegedly bug-free release of Doom II The Way id Did. That too.

    Even after reading the description, I don't understand what this is.
    It's simple, really. The "Doom the Way id Did" projects are recreations of Doom and Doom II based off of the design concepts and styles of the original Doom team's map creators - John Romero, Sandy Petersen, American McGee, etc. That means no extremely convoluted level design like some mappers do, no crazy body-count levels or areas that get flooded with ridiculous numbers of enemies with no real way respond if you get caught off guard - in a sense, simple but involving and fast-paced maps like you'd see in the classic Doom games. They greatly succeed, too; both were some of the most polished and fun level sets I've played in a while, and I've been through a lot of WADs.

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    Haha.
    What's more historical than having documentation on something using time-appropriate technology?
    Nothing, I tell you what.

    So I give you this page on Doom Alphas, complete with mid-90's web page design.

  • GrimthwackerGrimthwacker Registered User regular
    Just a heads-up that Wrack is now available on Steam as an early-access beta for fifteen bucks. Get yer classic Doom-like on! And, like Drake informed me, it was made by the guy behind Skulltag, so it's still Doom thread appropriate!

  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Oh man, leaderboards. Can you confirm if they can be Steam friends only?

    steam_sig.png
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    Just a heads-up that Wrack is now available on Steam as an early-access beta for fifteen bucks. Get yer classic Doom-like on! And, like Drake informed me, it was made by the guy behind Skulltag, so it's still Doom thread appropriate!
    I have.. feelings right now.

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    Just a heads-up that Wrack is now available on Steam as an early-access beta for fifteen bucks. Get yer classic Doom-like on! And, like Drake informed me, it was made by the guy behind Skulltag, so it's still Doom thread appropriate!

    That really reminds me more of Quake, with the way it appears to play. Maybe a bit more of the nice Doom gunplay.

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