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  • MidnightJesterMidnightJester Jester Extraordinaire Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    Exactly. There are ways that having more money can get you in without the need to raise the ticket prices for everyone.

  • DashDDashD Dread Pirate Chef Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Ok. I've been trying to be intellectually honest with this question and I'm willing to entertain part of Ques-Ques idea. So here's my suggestion:

    Offer VIP tickets at outrageous prices. Make them limited, and offer something that won't piss off regular pax attendees. Do a VIP presale or post sale, make them 1k or something (Blizzard does something like this with a dinner) and have a dinner with PA or something during the event. I mean, everyone's gotta eat.

    This STILL reduces the pool of tickets available. This is STILL taking the tickets out of someone elses hands. But if this were linked to child's play or something it would be great.

    While it's not a bad solution, I seiousely dislike VIP badges. They sell them for Emerald City ComicCon and there is nothing worse than making sure you are in line for something *hours* early just to have to wait an extra hour (or more) while all the VIP bagde holders get to show up at any time they feel like and cut in lines. One of my favorite things about PAX is that everyone who is there is equal. There are no VIPs, no one gets special treatment.


    "Brilliant! Oh wait, if we were meant to fly, we would have been born with little bags of nuts."
    PAX_Badge_Sig.png
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    yeah, I'm not looking for a vip badge that offers incentives in the expo itself, but something like blizzard does which is just a dinner access.

  • HingoHingo Minneapolis, MNRegistered User regular
    yeah, I'm not looking for a vip badge that offers incentives in the expo itself, but something like blizzard does which is just a dinner access.
    Agreed. "VIP" referring to something extra that's tacked on to the Con is better than preferential treatment at the Con for the entire weekend. PA office tour, "exclusive merch" swag bag, pre-PAX dinner/hangout at a barcade, extra ticket cost just going to Child's Play... I'm all for that.

    Pins for trade!
    2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
  • SkeleVaderSkeleVader Your Friendly Dark Lord of Destruction Registered User regular
    DashD wrote: »
    Ok. I've been trying to be intellectually honest with this question and I'm willing to entertain part of Ques-Ques idea. So here's my suggestion:

    Offer VIP tickets at outrageous prices. Make them limited, and offer something that won't piss off regular pax attendees. Do a VIP presale or post sale, make them 1k or something (Blizzard does something like this with a dinner) and have a dinner with PA or something during the event. I mean, everyone's gotta eat.

    This STILL reduces the pool of tickets available. This is STILL taking the tickets out of someone elses hands. But if this were linked to child's play or something it would be great.

    While it's not a bad solution, I seiousely dislike VIP badges. They sell them for Emerald City ComicCon and there is nothing worse than making sure you are in line for something *hours* early just to have to wait an extra hour (or more) while all the VIP bagde holders get to show up at any time they feel like and cut in lines. One of my favorite things about PAX is that everyone who is there is equal. There are no VIPs, no one gets special treatment.

    That's not entirely true. There are VIP badges at PAX, they just aren't sold.
    While at the Borderlands 2 booth I had a group of VIPs cut in line. After they passed the booth guy asked my group why we didn't just buy the VIP badges.
    I told him I would if I could.

    0hy0sznvqw4d.png
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 2014
    you can read about the various badge types here: http://wiki.paxcommunity.net/paxwiki/Badges

    For exhibitors, it's really up to them how they want to treat people. For example: they let media folks do whatever, usually, even though a media badge doesn't "grant" them that access.

    zerzhul on
  • havok978havok978 Baltimore, MdRegistered User regular
    zerzhul wrote: »
    you can read about the various badge types here: http://wiki.paxcommunity.net/paxwiki/Badges

    For exhibitors, it's really up to them how they want to treat people. For example: they let media folks do whatever, usually, even though a media badge doesn't "grant" them that access.

    Indeed, although personally I feel like that hasn't been as bad as in the past. I still remember a few years ago where it seems like just about everything I got in line for I got bumped, in some cases twice in a row. Not to mention running into dudes practically bragging that they got their media badges to avoid the lines. Media registration tightened up after that. I'm sure there's definitely still some of that around though.

    XyqJPIp.png
  • JKwonJKwon Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I remember in 2012 waiting for the Last of Us demo for nearly 2 hours and right when it was my groups turn to go in, they let a ton of media badge holders in before us...really made me upset.

    PAX Prime 2010 [x]
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    PAX Prime 2012 [x]
    PAX Prime 2013 [x]
    PAX Prime 2014 [x]
    PAX Prime 2015 [x]

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  • pogoplaypogoplay Writer/Blogger/Gamer Calgary, AlbertaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2014
    What basically happens with media badges is that if you have one, upon signing up, you are also added to a media list in which vendors can contact you (Usually booth appointments or interviews). I went in 2011 with a media badge and was offered to skip the League of Legends: Dominion line up (which was about 4-hours long), I had to decline because it really wouldn't be fair to those already in line and I'd like to say I follow a thing called, "Wheaton's Law." In the end, I was still able to do my write-up, and I still had a chance to play the game due to the media hours they let us enjoy.

    I have been in awkward scenarios where I booted someone off because I was media, and although I respect that vendors want to get their game out to the media folk... Kicking people off demos and/or cutting in line is just not cool. More vendors should really do the behind closed doors approach for things like this to avoid both upsetting others and to provide a separate spot for media to participate without taking away from the experience of others.

    pogoplay on
    Attended: PAX Prime 2010, PAX Prime 2011, PAX Prime 2012, PAX Prime 2014.
    Attending: PAX Prime 2016
    Twitter @Pogoplay
  • RidleyDragonRidleyDragon Registered User regular
    I am an actual, working economist with a graduate degree in economics. Simply raising the price of tickets because "that's where supply and demand intersect" is badly oversimplifying it.

    You have to factor in user utility, you have to factor in other costs, which are different for each person, you have to factor in substitutes, or possible substitutes that could arise due to pax being crazy expensive.

    You have to factor in the money you lose at the com because you charged more up front, you have to factor in the money your (very important) sponsors lose, and their utility to pay their fees with their target audience affected by higher prices.

    Tl;dr, raising the price will cause far more problems then they fix. The best short term solution is a small price increase caused by removing 4 day passes, which ensures the maximum amount of your target audience will at some point walk in those doors.

    PW0oFIs.png
  • havok978havok978 Baltimore, MdRegistered User regular
    pogoplay wrote: »
    What basically happens with media badges is that if you have one, upon signing up, you are also added to a media list in which vendors can contact you (Usually booth appointments or interviews). I went in 2011 with a media badge and was offered to skip the League of Legends: Dominion line up (which was about 4-hours long), I had to decline because it really wouldn't be fair to those already in line and I'd like to say I follow a thing called, "Wheaton's Law." In the end, I was still able to do my write-up, and I still had a chance to play the game due to the media hours they let us enjoy.

    I have been in awkward scenarios where I booted someone off because I was media, and although I respect that vendors want to get their game out to the media folk... Kicking people off demos and/or cutting in line is just not cool. More vendors should really do the behind closed doors approach for things like this.

    For Havok978, I know it was really difficult in 2011 to get a badge (You actually needed a paystub and a business license to apply for one), this year doesn't seem to be that way but unless you write for an actual website, I can't see anyone getting in.

    I actually thought the list/appointment/interview system was a welcome improvement. I'm sure some skipping still happens, but I saw first hand some booths (EA one year springs to mind) telling media folks that if they didn't have an appointment or interview scheduled at that particular time, they had to wait in line like everyone else. I've actually been on the receiving end of one of those awkward scenarios, where I got bumped twice in a row at Square Enix's booth a few years ago while waiting for a demo. The rep felt so bad about it and was so apologetic. I think he gave me some extra swag. I also remember being next in line, I think for either Uncharted 2 or 3, and having a group of media folks stroll up and basically lock the booth down for 15-20 mins. I want to say some of the more egregious Wheaton's Law violations were before the appointment system, or at least before the appointment system was more noticeable. I don't even particularly have a problem with media. You guys have a job to do, and PAX very quickly became one of those types of events that needed coverage. I think it just bugged me that some folks were, and a few probably still are, so blatant about it.

    XyqJPIp.png
  • pogoplaypogoplay Writer/Blogger/Gamer Calgary, AlbertaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2014
    havok978 wrote: »
    I actually thought the list/appointment/interview system was a welcome improvement. I'm sure some skipping still happens, but I saw first hand some booths (EA one year springs to mind) telling media folks that if they didn't have an appointment or interview scheduled at that particular time, they had to wait in line like everyone else. I've actually been on the receiving end of one of those awkward scenarios, where I got bumped twice in a row at Square Enix's booth a few years ago while waiting for a demo. The rep felt so bad about it and was so apologetic. I think he gave me some extra swag. I also remember being next in line, I think for either Uncharted 2 or 3, and having a group of media folks stroll up and basically lock the booth down for 15-20 mins. I want to say some of the more egregious Wheaton's Law violations were before the appointment system, or at least before the appointment system was more noticeable. I don't even particularly have a problem with media. You guys have a job to do, and PAX very quickly became one of those types of events that needed coverage. I think it just bugged me that some folks were, and a few probably still are, so blatant about it.

    Yes, I do recall going to PAX 2010 and just starting out as media and it being a common thing of people giving me stern looks and others asking me why I wasn't taking "advantage" of the perks that media got me.

    Kinda wish media doesn't get as much flak as it does, but with people literally destroying the media reputation by 'pretending' they are media it harms us more than anything and I am glad that PAX enforces stricter rules regarding Media registration than before to stop it from happening; although a few still bleed through.

    The majority of us are not uptight pricks and a lot of us who work for small media websites like myself are actually doing it because we have the same passion as the rest of the community and enjoy writing about games.

    pogoplay on
    Attended: PAX Prime 2010, PAX Prime 2011, PAX Prime 2012, PAX Prime 2014.
    Attending: PAX Prime 2016
    Twitter @Pogoplay
  • DashDDashD Dread Pirate Chef Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I was aware that VIP badges existed, but they are for actual VIPs and not people paying extra money for the ability to cut lines. When I said everyone was equal I really only meant us regual folk who buy the general admission badges and not the media/vendor/etc badges.


    "Brilliant! Oh wait, if we were meant to fly, we would have been born with little bags of nuts."
    PAX_Badge_Sig.png
  • RidleyDragonRidleyDragon Registered User regular
    Hey, the appointment thing is a great idea for huge booths, but indies don't have the bandwidth to do that.

    I got put behind a media group for tiny brains, and honestly? Indies need the media exposure, I can't blame them at all for doing that, plus since we waited patiently, they treated us to the same extended media demo, so we got to play some of the game that wasn't shown to the general public!

    In general: if you aren't a dick, good things happen for you.

    PW0oFIs.png
  • CortexianCortexian Calgary, AlbertaRegistered User regular
    A friend and I have Media passes in 2012, mostly because we were going to be in Seattle anyway and one of the companies I work for is a legitimate computer / tech / hardware / games press outlet. Since we kind of ended up getting them on a whim and last-minute, we made sure not to cut a single line and declined all invitations from vendors to skip ahead. We did legitimate work while we were there, but IMO almost all of what the press need to get done can be done during their hour of early access if they plan it all out correctly. 1on1 interviews and the like are all away from prying eyes in various conference rooms that the public don't have access to anyway, so any Media dickery happening on the show floor isn't excusable IMO.

    Examples: When we reported on Oculus Rift and World of Warplanes it wasn't anywhere near the public access, even though Warplanes had had a show floor booth setup. Same with the Razer Blade announcement, it was in a back-room of the Razer booth away from the public. As mentioned before, you get put on the media mailing list and you can take interviews with any of the exhibitors or vendors that reach out to you. Most of these are scheduled, and if they're at an actual booth it may appear that you're cutting a line for quick access as press. What's really happening is that you have deadlines to meet and there isn't really a way around that, typically the person you get to talk to has a demo set aside for these things or they'll wait until a demo frees up and stick you ahead of the line quickly. I don't see a way around this for invitational and scheduled meetings like this.

    If I were voluntold to attend as Media and report on anything and everything, that might be a different story since there's just so damn much to see and do through the entire event. But it shouldn't be to hard to obey the rules and wait your turn like everyone else if you have a Media badge but really just want to check something out personally.


    Wasn't able to attend last year, but now that I've read this about certain people abusing their special passes I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Not to tattle on anyone of course, but just to see what kind of extend it's really at.

    Previous Events: Prime 2012, 2014
  • mdjenkinsmdjenkins Registered User regular
    Here's what I don't understand about the suggestions to drastically raise badge prices, particularly when said as a means of cutting back on scalping. People with lots of money who can afford to pay greatly increased ticket prices already can ensure themselves a badge to PAX...by buythe from a secondary market. All you do by increasing ticket prices is making it so that paying more money is the only way to get yourself a badge. If you're willing to pay more money if it meant a better chance at getting a badge, congratulations, that option is already in existence for you.
    As someone that trusts the rely-ability of the secondary market, I don't support any proposition that would weaken the secondary market. I make my plans to go to PAX the week after PAX. I cannot rely on dumb luck to get my passes. This year I was lucky enough to get single days on the primary sale. Next year I may not be so lucky.Anything that tries to solve the scalper "problem" limits my ability to plan for PAX. I need the guarantee of the secondary market to justify making plans for PAX.

    If the secondary market was the only means of procuring passes, then I would say there's a problem with scalping. Even then, the problem would be in the scale, not existence, of the secondary/scalper market.

    I don't consider myself as having a lot of money. Cheaper tickets means more money to spend on merch at the indie mega booth. Higher pass prices have no bearing on my ability to attend PAX. It would have an effect on my desire to attend as that money needs to come from somewhere out of my budget for the entire trip.

    I see the entire discussion as looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    Since I'm all about the swag, if media goes up front to get swag and when I get there it's gone, I'm upset. If media goes up front to play a game, and when I get there, I play a game, I don't care. If it's the end of the day and I'm holding up the "last person in line cutoff" and media goes up front to play a game, then suddenly I'm not allowed to play, I'd be upset. But in that case I'm sure they's still let me play.

    So again, if media gets limited items like swag, I'd be upset.

    jCyyTSo.png
  • HeadhunterHeadhunter Registered User regular
    pogoplay wrote: »
    havok978 wrote: »
    I actually thought the list/appointment/interview system was a welcome improvement. I'm sure some skipping still happens, but I saw first hand some booths (EA one year springs to mind) telling media folks that if they didn't have an appointment or interview scheduled at that particular time, they had to wait in line like everyone else. I've actually been on the receiving end of one of those awkward scenarios, where I got bumped twice in a row at Square Enix's booth a few years ago while waiting for a demo. The rep felt so bad about it and was so apologetic. I think he gave me some extra swag. I also remember being next in line, I think for either Uncharted 2 or 3, and having a group of media folks stroll up and basically lock the booth down for 15-20 mins. I want to say some of the more egregious Wheaton's Law violations were before the appointment system, or at least before the appointment system was more noticeable. I don't even particularly have a problem with media. You guys have a job to do, and PAX very quickly became one of those types of events that needed coverage. I think it just bugged me that some folks were, and a few probably still are, so blatant about it.

    Yes, I do recall going to PAX 2010 and just starting out as media and it being a common thing of people giving me stern looks and others asking me why I wasn't taking "advantage" of the perks that media got me.

    Kinda wish media doesn't get as much flak as it does, but with people literally destroying the media reputation by 'pretending' they are media it harms us more than anything and I am glad that PAX enforces stricter rules regarding Media registration than before to stop it from happening; although a few still bleed through.

    The majority of us are not uptight pricks and a lot of us who work for small media websites like myself are actually doing it because we have the same passion as the rest of the community and enjoy writing about games.

    I used to make a lot more appointments, but felt so bad about being moved to the front of the line when I showed up for games on the main floor that I stopped making those appointments.

    I try to be discreet and respectful with media badges. All I really need is the occasional reliable wifi and power charging access from the media room (for some reason, some of the outlets around the centre tend to be dead these days), I'm willing to get in line to try out other stuff with everyone else if that's an option. Most of the folks applying for/receiving a media badge can deal with the occasional waits to get hands on access to games, unless you have a massive crushing deadline.

    "Perception is reality." -unknown
  • RidleyDragonRidleyDragon Registered User regular
    I don't understand why media people feel bad about this. The publishers want coverage, and you are there to work, not on vacation. I've attended every East and one Prime, reasonable people don't get mad unless you are obnoxious about it. If you are taking your buddy to see sonic without waiting in line, that's not work, but if you are going in for a demo you might report about, that's understandable, we've all had deadlines too.

    PW0oFIs.png
  • mdjenkinsmdjenkins Registered User regular
    E3 is for the media.
    PAX is for the gamers.
    I don't understand why media should be given special privileges at PAX.

  • pogoplaypogoplay Writer/Blogger/Gamer Calgary, AlbertaRegistered User regular
    mdjenkins wrote: »
    E3 is for the media.
    PAX is for the gamers.
    I don't understand why media should be given special privileges at PAX.

    While I agree with you, E3 is still a hard venue to get access too especially if you are a smaller site. PAX gives us the opportunity to still do coverage although we aren't a AAA news website.

    Attended: PAX Prime 2010, PAX Prime 2011, PAX Prime 2012, PAX Prime 2014.
    Attending: PAX Prime 2016
    Twitter @Pogoplay
  • mdjenkinsmdjenkins Registered User regular
    pogoplay wrote: »
    mdjenkins wrote: »
    E3 is for the media.
    PAX is for the gamers.
    I don't understand why media should be given special privileges at PAX.

    While I agree with you, E3 is still a hard venue to get access too especially if you are a smaller site. PAX gives us the opportunity to still do coverage although we aren't a AAA news website.
    That doesn't explain why media should be given special access and special treatment at PAX. Giving one group of gamers special treatment for any reason only serves to split the event. I thought "accessible to all" was one of the main tenets of PAX. If this isn't a tenet of PAX, you can null the entire "keep badge price low" argument.

    I have no issues with media outlets attending and reporting on PAX. Any game journalist worth their salt is a gamer and a journalist. PAX should be for all gamers, even the loud mouthed ones that make their living shouting about what they see through what ever bullhorn they have handy.

    I do disagree with putting the journalist before the gamer. Media access should be limited to make their job transparent to those attending as gamers. Anything else will have PAX devolve into nothing more than another media circus to supplement and supplant E3.

  • Chuck Liddell FanChuck Liddell Fan Registered User regular
    I don't mind journalists, sure it sucks if your waiting in line for something and they jump ahead but its not like its a huge contingent of media at Pax (at least I don't think) doing that all the time (they get an hour of early access at Pax or no?)



    Oh my goodness
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    Oh my goodness
    They goin' Ham
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    PAX does not police how exhibitors choose to handle media, afaik. Being media doesn't grant you any special privileges at pax proper aside from the media hour of the expo and the dedicated space for writing/podcasting/whatever. If an exhibitor decides to say "hey, you, media person, come pass the line and look at my demo," that's a place where you should get in touch with the exhibitor in question, if it bothers you.

  • mdjenkinsmdjenkins Registered User regular
    I don't think an hour is enough time to do anything other than hold a meeting welcoming the media to PAX and pass out press packets. I assume such a meeting is also held for the exhibitors. Reminding the exhibitors that PAX is about the gamers first and the media second during that meeting would go a long way. Interrupting normal booth operation to give a impromptu interview is understandable; line jumping is not.

    Lines at PAX are another rub for me. Many times it seems like the exhibitors only want to compete on who can get the longest lines. They'll hide their demo behind walls and force players into a queue to see it. I understand that there is some material in games that people think should be hidden young and developing minds and the walls serve that purpose. Most of the time, I leave those demos wondering why the walls were necessary. I typically conclude the walls weren't necessary and the only reason was to create a sense of mystery and hype.

  • RidleyDragonRidleyDragon Registered User regular
    Boy is this turning into another entitled "It's not fair to me so it's not fair to anyone!" session

    Many, many other gamers could not make PAX, press coverage is as close as they are going to get, if press are stuck behind 3 hour lines, how much coverage do you think they will get? Time is a finite commodity.

    PW0oFIs.png
  • mdjenkinsmdjenkins Registered User regular
    I don't see where media needs the hands on access to demos provided to those that wait in lines to provide coverage of the event. Observe and report is different from participation.

  • CennediCennedi A strange man A strange landRegistered User regular
    A wise man once said to me: "Do not worry about what you cannot change"

    A loud man said to me many years later: "Embrace the suck, Private. Embrace the suck."

    Words of wisdom I pass down now.

    Hopeful First Time Attendee of PAX Prime 2014.
    [ X ] Badge
    [ X ] Hotel
    [ X ] Plane
    Wish me luck!
This discussion has been closed.