Even the Pentagon has come out and said that they can't confirm that people died looking for him. Every death in Afghanistan between him missing and being captured is being blamed on the dude. Shame on the media. Shame on them for continuing the lie. I really dislike people pushing the "soldiers died looking for this guy" angle. We aren't just numbers you know.
Also there's a thing called mission and not picking and choosing missions; because I tell ya if I had my choice, I would've been on all the missions to cool ass places, with liquor and women and beaches. Why can't we go to war with those places?
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Even the Pentagon has come out and said that they can't confirm that people died looking for him. Every death in Afghanistan between him missing and being captured is being blamed on the dude. Shame on the media. Shame on them for continuing the lie. I really dislike people pushing the "soldiers died looking for this guy" angle. We aren't just numbers you know.
Also there's a thing called mission and not picking and choosing missions; because I tell ya if I had my choice, I would've been on all the missions to cool ass places, with liquor and women and beaches. Why can't we go to war with those places?
Vote AMFE.
We'll bring democracy to Miami Beach.
This whole thing is quickly moving into the "launch on warning" stage of wanting to punch idiots in the mouth for me. I just left the cafeteria yesterday when the Reagan Squad started pontificating about it.
The claim that Bowe left a letter on his bed, for example, comes from the soldiers in his unit - but the investigators couldn't find this note. It was never submitted to anyone for review (or it was, but it's been lost somehow). Most of the complaints are much more nebulous and essentially attack Bowe for not being endearing, or writing private complaints to his parents that are (according to officers / investigators) extremely common among servicemen.
To me the stuff from his squadmates reeks of high school drama, which after living with a couple of marines for a few years, doesn't surprise me at all. They're high school seniors when they graduate and join up, and (in my experience) they're at about the same maturity level 5 years later or whenever they leave the service. So I don't really believe these guys, as it sounds more like he became a convenient scapegoat for everyone's shitty time out there, and they gossiped about him like a couple of teenage girls as a result.
Yeah you'll see I said he was Awol which you just quoted, but not deserted, which is where the 31 days thing kicks in.
No, no it isn't! Desertion is AWOL with intent not to return, it's not time based.
Exactly. Equating the two is really silly. You don't think soldiers go off base without permission all the damn time to get drunk or any number of other things. It's an offense but calling it desertion is a really big difference.
Military investigators found that Chen was the target of ethnic slurs and endured physical attacks at the hands of his fellow soldiers before his death.[3][8] Chen had been physically and verbally abused by his superiors who singled him out for being Chinese-American. This occurred on a daily basis for six weeks.[7][9][10] As the only Chinese-American soldier in the unit, he was singled out, endured taunts including racial slurs like "gook", "chink" and "dragon lady," assigned excessive guard duty to the point of exhaustion, made to do push-ups while holding water in his mouth, put in a “simulated sitting position” and kicked by other soldiers using their knees, among other abuses.[11]
He was allegedly pelted with stones by fellow soldiers and forced to crawl across gravel until his suicide.[12] On September 27, 2011, a sergeant dragged Chen out of bed and over 15 metres (49 ft) of gravel, leaving visible bruises and cuts on Chen's back. Although the incident was reported to Chen's platoon sergeant and squad leader, it was not reported to superior officers.[11] On October 3, 2011, the day he died, other soldiers forced him to crawl on gravel for over 100 metres (330 ft) while carrying equipment, as his comrades threw rocks at him
And these are the people we should trust when they speak out to say "he is a traitor".
Yeah, right.
I've read the theory being brought up that these vets speaking out against Bergdalh are either being paid shills, or covering their own assess from any possible statements they think Bergdahl might have to say when he gets back.
Not saying they are either (people seem quite happy to be utter shits for free), but i would not be horribly surprised if either (or both) of those options were to be true.
No way am I comfortable with that claim. The utterly insane shit people do nowadays, killing the family of an unjustly suspected traitor to the country is not at all a stretch.
I know your most likely correct, but it does not mean that this family should have to put up with this. It would also be nice if society treated them more seriously.
Nice to see that lesons were learned after the Vietnam POWs were similarly shit on.
That didn't actually happen. It was propaganda to tarnish liberals.
I was talking about flower children calling them baby murders but the post-war neglect of veterans because they fought in a war that was lost and embarrassing and shitty and no one wanted to deal with not being the good guys any more.
You know, I really want to get back to McCain here.
John McCain, as a POW, was coerced into writing and taping anti-American confessions. He says that he tried his best to refuse but eventually hit his breaking point and did it, to his shame.
Now we have a coordinated smear campaign which is ramming Bergdahl's reputation through the wood chipper, and the Maverick can't be bothered to speak up and say that maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt until we know for sure. He doesn't need to white knight the man, just maybe say something along the lines of, "He's been through hell, maybe we could wait until we know for sure if he's actually sympathetic to our enemies before we throw him into Mt. Doom."
Instead, we've got him flip-flopping all over the place to condemn Obama no matter what the President does. I'm so very glad he didn't get elected President; McCain is a feeble man. And I am not saying he's physically weak, I'm saying that he has given up all of his principles and moral identity in his old age for the sake of toeing the party line and betting on a losing horse. He's a gigantic hypocrite who could have taken a lesson from a terrible trial in his past to do what's right in the future, and instead he threw that lesson out the window in exchange for Republican approval. Most Republicans make me angry, but on this issue, McCain makes me sad.
McCain has never been a good guy. He started pushing this bipartisan image when running against Bush, and somehow it actually stuck, but the guy is full of terrible beliefs and thoughts. That he doesn't have enough decency to speak up for a guy who went through something similar to his own experiences isn't overly surprising.
I'm not surprised by it, just saddened that he either has so little self-awareness or is totally self-aware but doesn't care and is actively throwing his principles out the window.
I'm not surprised by it, just saddened that he either has so little self-awareness or is totally self-aware but doesn't care and is actively throwing his principles out the window.
He threw his principles out the window back in the 80s when he hopped in bed with Charles Keating.
I would imagine he's already personally judged Bergdhal guilty as a deserter so therefore sees their ordeals as nothing alike. McCain was shot down in glorious combat, Bergdhal walked away from his post like a coward and spouts anti-US rhetoric, etc.
It's easy to justify your horse shit position to yourself if you have a mountain of pre-conceived notions.
I'm not surprised by it, just saddened that he either has so little self-awareness or is totally self-aware but doesn't care and is actively throwing his principles out the window.
McCain is aware of how government should work to actually not destroy the nation, but his ethics do not include giving a rat's ass. Some of the FOX News people are the same way - they know that they're causing harm, and once in awhile they slip up, but they care a lot more about the value of being on-message than about the country.
Someone with a lick of sense in the panel he was testifying before should have said something to the effect of,
"Mr. Full, while we do appreciate your service and you coming out here today, you're neither a legal expert nor a mental health professional. Your opinions on what he should be charged with or his mental state are none of our fucking concern."
It must be just my outsider perspective, but I don't understand why there's such a fucking media circus about this. Why not just leave it up to the investigators and courts to suss out the truth? Why's there a sudden clamoring for the modern day equivalent of lynch mobs?
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
I'm not surprised by it, just saddened that he either has so little self-awareness or is totally self-aware but doesn't care and is actively throwing his principles out the window.
McCain is aware of how government should work to actually not destroy the nation, but his ethics do not include giving a rat's ass. Some of the FOX News people are the same way - they know that they're causing harm, and once in awhile they slip up, but they care a lot more about the value of being on-message than about the country.
Party first, country a distant second.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Mike Waltz, a former special forces commander who conducted searches for Bergdahl, said that the Taliban knew about the search for Bergdahl and used it to attack U.S. forces.
“We were ordered to devote all resources and energy to the search for Bergdahl,” said Waltz, who now serves as a senior national security fellow at the New America Foundation.
“It soon became apparent, however, that the Taliban knew we were conducting an all-out search for him and they began feeding false information into our informant network in order to lure our forces into a trap,” Waltz said. “On several occasions, my men were lured into ambushes, including an afghan home rigged with explosives, a car bomb that was primed to explode, and other types of deadly traps.”
...Well, there are less than 10 casualties for the entire region, so I guess these dozens of traps that spec ops ran into weren't all that effective, or...?
There is no mention in any report of people being killed by a 'house rigged with explosives', for example (and that kind of seems like an impractical trap, but whatever). Car bombs & IEDs are extremely common weapons used by insurgents, and comparing the reported incident rate for the period after Bergdahl went missing vs the rate before doesn't reveal any sudden increase in either casualties or bombs found / bombs triggered.
But whatever. Hope that new talking head gig was worth your soul, Mr. Waltz.
And despite all that... what does it even fucking matter?
I mean, we would have been conducting searches for any missing soldier, because Leave No Man Behind. The enemy knows this. Of course they'd take the opportunity to fuck with us.
All this wahrgarbbl is completely fucking pointless because even if Bergdahl was deserting, he was still fucking captured by the enemy and as such it was still our business to be looking for him.
What fucking precedent are these shitheels trying to set? If our people get captured by the enemy, they better hope all their paperwork is in order and nobody ever heard them complain about the military or we might just write them off as a deserter without trial and leave them to rot in a tiger cage. I'm sure that'll do wonders for morale. Good luck getting anybody to keep faith then.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Can I say that the thread title is confusing? Because it doesn't mention Bergdahl at all and it describes the deal in its most negative interpretation. Officially this was a POW swap.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Can I say that the thread title is confusing? Because it doesn't mention Bergdahl at all and it describes the deal in its most negative interpretation. Officially this was a POW swap.
That was the intent of the OP when he made the thread.
Someone with a lick of sense in the panel he was testifying before should have said something to the effect of,
"Mr. Full, while we do appreciate your service and you coming out here today, you're neither a legal expert nor a mental health professional. Your opinions on what he should be charged with or his mental state are none of our fucking concern."
This article makes me sick to my stomach.
During his deployment in 2009, Bergdahl began “voicing his disagreements with the way our missions were being led,” Full claimed in his written testimony. “He didn’t understand why we were doing more humanitarian aid drops, setting up clinics, and helping the populous instead of hunting the Taliban.”
Just a fucking week ago everyone was saying he was a terrorist sympathizer, now this week he was full of bloodlust to kill terrorists and "totally scaring everyone man", which manages to make the case for his defection even more circumspect. It's like one big nasty game of telephone.
“The only thing you can count on in combat is commitment of your fellow Americans, knowing that someone you needed to trust deserted you in war and did so on his own free will is the ultimate betrayal
No kidding Mr Full...no kidding. Something tells me when the facts finally do come out and it turns out SPC Full is full of shit, nobody is going to take him to task for betraying a fellow soldier. And you'll notice that yet again, these guys still don't cite any real evidence they have for him leaving...it's still nothing but hearsay and gossip.
No to mention that group was terrible, like people got busted for having a private kill himself. Gee I can't imagine why Berghdahl would be disliked among that choir group of good Samaritans.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Can I say that the thread title is confusing? Because it doesn't mention Bergdahl at all and it describes the deal in its most negative interpretation. Officially this was a POW swap.
That was the intent of the OP when he made the thread.
Working as intended, I guess?
I actually forgot that's what the OP had initially intended and for a long time now had read it as being sarcastic about the whole "America doesn't negotiate with terrorists" thing. So it works on multiple levels.
As someone who served in the U.S. Navy, the way some right-wing politicians are attacking the Bergdahl POW swap is embarrasing and damaging long-term. Cut right through the moral problem of bringing a soldier home vs. releasing Gitmo detainees then ignore the executive descision to perform the trade without due notification of Congress and what have you got? You have a military which is willing to enforce the "No man left behind" mantra which is absolutly vital to maintaining a volunteer military force.
Lets not forget Bergdahl's chain-of-command and peers giving statements and inside reviews with obvious conflict of interest. Oh yeah, and the right's attack everything Obama's administration does by default strategy. The administration could sponser a successful cure for cancer at this point and the right would whine about all the medical jobs destroyed through bad policy.
Lets not forget Bergdahl's chain-of-command and peers giving statements and inside reviews with obvious conflict of interest.
Yeah, his peers have given this whole thing a weird, terrible vibe. While it's baseless speculation on my part, I can't help but wonder if there's some CYA going on here, especially with this Full cat suddenly talking up all the humanitarian missions they were doing. Given how awful some are being now, it's not too big a jump to think they were probably harassing the shit out of him on deployment.
Got to agree there. Take their side of the story: one soldier acting dissatisfied, voicing sympathy for the enemy and being a bad soldier. In other words being the kind of guy "you should keep an eye on".
Then they have have him straight up walk off base into the wild and not being noticed missing for several hours by his fellow soldiers or superiors.
Either somebody is lying or somebody is covering their ass.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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Also there's a thing called mission and not picking and choosing missions; because I tell ya if I had my choice, I would've been on all the missions to cool ass places, with liquor and women and beaches. Why can't we go to war with those places?
Vote AMFE.
We'll bring democracy to Miami Beach.
This whole thing is quickly moving into the "launch on warning" stage of wanting to punch idiots in the mouth for me. I just left the cafeteria yesterday when the Reagan Squad started pontificating about it.
To me the stuff from his squadmates reeks of high school drama, which after living with a couple of marines for a few years, doesn't surprise me at all. They're high school seniors when they graduate and join up, and (in my experience) they're at about the same maturity level 5 years later or whenever they leave the service. So I don't really believe these guys, as it sounds more like he became a convenient scapegoat for everyone's shitty time out there, and they gossiped about him like a couple of teenage girls as a result.
Exactly. Equating the two is really silly. You don't think soldiers go off base without permission all the damn time to get drunk or any number of other things. It's an offense but calling it desertion is a really big difference.
And these are the people we should trust when they speak out to say "he is a traitor".
Yeah, right.
I've read the theory being brought up that these vets speaking out against Bergdalh are either being paid shills, or covering their own assess from any possible statements they think Bergdahl might have to say when he gets back.
Not saying they are either (people seem quite happy to be utter shits for free), but i would not be horribly surprised if either (or both) of those options were to be true.
Good lord. If something happens to these people I will be pissed.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
pleasepaypreacher.net
No way am I comfortable with that claim. The utterly insane shit people do nowadays, killing the family of an unjustly suspected traitor to the country is not at all a stretch.
That's one way to spin that, I guess. Obviously it's not possible the dude just didn't want to go to the hearing for his trial.
BlackTrack; The act of changing one’s mind because Obama has agreed with you.
Also see; Pulling a OneHatey or Kenyan Boomerang.
MWO: Adamski
That didn't actually happen. It was propaganda to tarnish liberals.
I know your most likely correct, but it does not mean that this family should have to put up with this. It would also be nice if society treated them more seriously.
I was talking about flower children calling them baby murders but the post-war neglect of veterans because they fought in a war that was lost and embarrassing and shitty and no one wanted to deal with not being the good guys any more.
POWs were flown directly to the bases. They got shit on by fellow soldiers immediately after their return to America.
And, yeah, uh, there was a very vocal group of Korean War vets doing everything possible to fuck with 'nam vets. It was definitely a thing.
John McCain, as a POW, was coerced into writing and taping anti-American confessions. He says that he tried his best to refuse but eventually hit his breaking point and did it, to his shame.
Now we have a coordinated smear campaign which is ramming Bergdahl's reputation through the wood chipper, and the Maverick can't be bothered to speak up and say that maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt until we know for sure. He doesn't need to white knight the man, just maybe say something along the lines of, "He's been through hell, maybe we could wait until we know for sure if he's actually sympathetic to our enemies before we throw him into Mt. Doom."
Instead, we've got him flip-flopping all over the place to condemn Obama no matter what the President does. I'm so very glad he didn't get elected President; McCain is a feeble man. And I am not saying he's physically weak, I'm saying that he has given up all of his principles and moral identity in his old age for the sake of toeing the party line and betting on a losing horse. He's a gigantic hypocrite who could have taken a lesson from a terrible trial in his past to do what's right in the future, and instead he threw that lesson out the window in exchange for Republican approval. Most Republicans make me angry, but on this issue, McCain makes me sad.
He threw his principles out the window back in the 80s when he hopped in bed with Charles Keating.
It's easy to justify your horse shit position to yourself if you have a mountain of pre-conceived notions.
McCain is aware of how government should work to actually not destroy the nation, but his ethics do not include giving a rat's ass. Some of the FOX News people are the same way - they know that they're causing harm, and once in awhile they slip up, but they care a lot more about the value of being on-message than about the country.
#1. Have charges been filed in the Military Justice System? (last I heard, no)
#2. this:
Someone with a lick of sense in the panel he was testifying before should have said something to the effect of,
"Mr. Full, while we do appreciate your service and you coming out here today, you're neither a legal expert nor a mental health professional. Your opinions on what he should be charged with or his mental state are none of our fucking concern."
Party first, country a distant second.
...Well, there are less than 10 casualties for the entire region, so I guess these dozens of traps that spec ops ran into weren't all that effective, or...?
There is no mention in any report of people being killed by a 'house rigged with explosives', for example (and that kind of seems like an impractical trap, but whatever). Car bombs & IEDs are extremely common weapons used by insurgents, and comparing the reported incident rate for the period after Bergdahl went missing vs the rate before doesn't reveal any sudden increase in either casualties or bombs found / bombs triggered.
But whatever. Hope that new talking head gig was worth your soul, Mr. Waltz.
I mean, we would have been conducting searches for any missing soldier, because Leave No Man Behind. The enemy knows this. Of course they'd take the opportunity to fuck with us.
All this wahrgarbbl is completely fucking pointless because even if Bergdahl was deserting, he was still fucking captured by the enemy and as such it was still our business to be looking for him.
What fucking precedent are these shitheels trying to set? If our people get captured by the enemy, they better hope all their paperwork is in order and nobody ever heard them complain about the military or we might just write them off as a deserter without trial and leave them to rot in a tiger cage. I'm sure that'll do wonders for morale. Good luck getting anybody to keep faith then.
Black presidents who are Democrats are bad.
White presidents who are Republicans are good.
That was the intent of the OP when he made the thread.
Working as intended, I guess?
This article makes me sick to my stomach.
Just a fucking week ago everyone was saying he was a terrorist sympathizer, now this week he was full of bloodlust to kill terrorists and "totally scaring everyone man", which manages to make the case for his defection even more circumspect. It's like one big nasty game of telephone.
No kidding Mr Full...no kidding. Something tells me when the facts finally do come out and it turns out SPC Full is full of shit, nobody is going to take him to task for betraying a fellow soldier. And you'll notice that yet again, these guys still don't cite any real evidence they have for him leaving...it's still nothing but hearsay and gossip.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I actually forgot that's what the OP had initially intended and for a long time now had read it as being sarcastic about the whole "America doesn't negotiate with terrorists" thing. So it works on multiple levels.
Lets not forget Bergdahl's chain-of-command and peers giving statements and inside reviews with obvious conflict of interest. Oh yeah, and the right's attack everything Obama's administration does by default strategy. The administration could sponser a successful cure for cancer at this point and the right would whine about all the medical jobs destroyed through bad policy.
Yeah, his peers have given this whole thing a weird, terrible vibe. While it's baseless speculation on my part, I can't help but wonder if there's some CYA going on here, especially with this Full cat suddenly talking up all the humanitarian missions they were doing. Given how awful some are being now, it's not too big a jump to think they were probably harassing the shit out of him on deployment.
Then they have have him straight up walk off base into the wild and not being noticed missing for several hours by his fellow soldiers or superiors.
Either somebody is lying or somebody is covering their ass.