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huh each pa comic has a comments section now; when did that happen
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
But it's so much easier to just blame the internet
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
huh each pa comic has a comments section now; when did that happen
pretty sure those are just the forum posts from the PA Hub
what happens if you like embed a video
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
But it's so much easier to just blame the internet
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
I do wonder what combination of events and conditions would lead two twelve year old girls to lose touch with reality in such a bad way. "The Internet" is probably the last on my list of suspects there, though.
This is why schools need to teach critical thinking skills, not how to vomit up multiple choice answers on demand.
Battletag BYToady#1454
+10
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Yeah, like... the entire reason we don't generally try children as adults is because they have a childish understanding of the world and fucking up even this bad doesn't imply the same state of mind that fucking up this bad at twenty two does. You might be able to convince me some seventeen year old who kills someone in an armed robbery should be tried as an adult. You're going to have a much harder time convincing me it's appropriate when it's twelve year old girls stabbing people because they're convinced an internet god wants them to.
Trying children as adults based not on their capacity but on how fucked up the crime is, is fucked up.
But it's so much easier to just blame the internet
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
I do wonder what combination of events and conditions would lead two twelve year old girls to lose touch with reality in such a bad way. "The Internet" is probably the last on my list of suspects there, though.
the internet can be extremely developmentally problematic. very niche online hubs are becoming a proxy for other forms of social life; and i'm not just talking about the hour-in-a-sunlit-park-after-school white picket fence bullshit. kids have laptops. they bring them to class, and they become embedded in different worlds for eighteen hours a day. it's almost impossible to monitor that, but it's the responsibility as a guardian to do so all the same - even if it's hard. the flaw is that a withdrawn kid is much easier to leave alone and not worry too much about than an aggressive or confronting one - which teachers, for example, also have a hell of a hard time dealing with. this is not an easy problem, and to say 'lol yeah the internet's to blame' sarcastically is dangerous, dangerous territory. the world has changed incredibily rapidly and to huge degrees, and to think that we can just glide over that change as a culture is very naive.
But it's so much easier to just blame the internet
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
I do wonder what combination of events and conditions would lead two twelve year old girls to lose touch with reality in such a bad way. "The Internet" is probably the last on my list of suspects there, though.
Liability culture or Fantasy-Facebook culture.
Some from Column A and some from Column B.
Goddamned shame either way.
Any way.
Yeah I think the real problem is trying to reduce it down to any one single cause. Something like this typically only happens due to a combination of factors. The Internet probably plays a role, but it's hardly the sole or driving culprit.
+1
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
But it's so much easier to just blame the internet
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
I do wonder what combination of events and conditions would lead two twelve year old girls to lose touch with reality in such a bad way. "The Internet" is probably the last on my list of suspects there, though.
Liability culture or Fantasy-Facebook culture.
Some from Column A and some from Column B.
Goddamned shame either way.
Any way.
Yeah I think the real problem is trying to reduce it down to any one single cause. Something like this typically only happens due to a combination of factors. The Internet probably plays a role, but it's hardly the sole or driving culprit.
Judging from my own experiences, part of it may be the desperate desire to get away from a shitty home life.
if you're gonna commit homicide over a meme at least choose a good one
but nah fuck that try them as adults
this isn't something like misled youths getting caught up in gang violence or stealing or whatever, they attempted premeditated homicide
they're 12 years old. not even teenagers yet.
they can't parse the shit they have been consuming correctly. trust me. there is massive liability here from parents, educators and, yeah, the media
Well they might not be able to because they are mentally ill, but most twelve year olds know reality from fiction. And they don't act out premeditated murder that they plan for months.
If kids were that unbalanced the streets would be running with blood.
Trying them as adults is too far I think but let's not pretend that kids are just completely unable to tell fiction from reality. They can do that from a pretty early age.
+12
RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
huh each pa comic has a comments section now; when did that happen
pretty sure those are just the forum posts from the PA Hub
it's both
you can comment on the comic
and it makes a thread, if it's the first one
or it posts it as a comment on the comic page and the forum thread if it's not
because MAAAAAGIC
+1
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Also big surprise mentally ill people don't always kill people.
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Not to blanket mental illness, but if stabbing other people bunches of times doesn't say "brain-sick", then I'm not sure what does.
There are many shades of illness. Just because someone is mentally ill and does awful things doesn't mean everyone who has a mental illness is capable or likely to do awful things.
It means that one person that was sick did bad things.
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Well I mean they thought slenderman was real and that they should worship him.
why would you try anyone as an adult who wasn't an adult, ever, under any circumstances
Because we don't wanna pass a law that explicitly says 'dump this child in a hole for the rest of forever and never think of them again'. So we just promote children to adults when its convenient.
why would you try anyone as an adult who wasn't an adult, ever, under any circumstances
Well because some actions are so heinous and our rules for adulthood are so arbitrary that sometimes it makes sense. If a seventeen year old commits rape or premeditated murder, it kind of makes sense to try him as an adult because he is, really. What actually separates a guy five months out from 18 and a guy who just turned 18? Nothing really.
Obviously for twelve year olds it is not really defensible.
+4
RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
I am also entirely aware that I am not qualified whatsoever to diagnose anybody as mentally ill and am operating from the standpoint of mostly complete ignorance about such things, and am readily accepting of being proven wrong or taught how my current perception of events or situations are entirely incorrect.
0
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Not to blanket mental illness, but if stabbing other people bunches of times doesn't say "brain-sick", then I'm not sure what does.
There are many shades of illness. Just because someone is mentally ill and does awful things doesn't mean everyone who has a mental illness is capable or likely to do awful things.
It means that one person that was sick did bad things.
Is it that scary to think that perfectly sane people can stab others?
Well they might not be able to because they are mentally ill, but most twelve year olds know reality from fiction. And they don't act out premeditated murder that they plan for months.
If kids were that unbalanced the streets would be running with blood.
Trying them as adults is too far I think but let's not pretend that kids are just completely unable to tell fiction from reality. They can do that from a pretty early age.
i deal with the way kids of this age interact with texts every day. it's an oversimplification to say 'kids can discern reality from fiction.'
firstly: for a very long time, 'fiction' has come in very specific formats. english teachers explicitly talk about structure for a reason: you don't decode a particular format of text without someone teaching you how. that's easy to do for a novel or a comic book. "this is a work of fiction. we can tell because of the chapters and the indents. we can tell because of the images and frames. we can tell because..."
that's primary school literacy teaching. educational theory has abandoned the idea of "whole language" teaching - the concept that exposure around texts for long enough will allow a user to understand it fully - because it doesn't work. some gifted kids can get by that way, and learn, especially with guidance in socioeconomically priveleged families. outside that? you have to teach it explicitly.
the structure of fictions online is changing so rapidly that even the astute, modern, young teachers stuggle to approach it in a classroom. resources haven't been developed for it yet. we're still teaching what chapters and paragraphs look like, when a kid may have never read a stretch of text that didn't have a hyperlink in it.
secondly: broadly, yes, kids can tell what's true and what's 'made up'. but that's the long and the short of it; through highschool most kids struggle to identify simple things like tone, and especially authorial purpose or intent. they see a body of fiction, but they rarely are able to have a contextual view of it or decipher what it's trying to do. how they are 'supposed' to use it. there's a four-roles literacy teaching method, and one of the roles is 'text user.' we need to teach kids how to use texts, explicitly. which teacher sat these kids down, and said here's what creepypasta is for?
nobody did. this is what goes into critical literacy: not just cutting out the multiple choice questions, as was positited (in good faith) up the page.
so do we blame lagging education? absolutely, but that's not it. there's an ethical responsibility for content creators to understand the depth and breadth of their audience, and to concede that what they do is available currently to anyone of any age. game makers are the same: there are so many psychologically exploitative nothing games out there that, while they probably won't lead to murder, are damaging to a lot of kids who just don't have the tools to figure out how they're wasting so much time on something that's purely manipulative.
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Not to blanket mental illness, but if stabbing other people bunches of times doesn't say "brain-sick", then I'm not sure what does.
There are many shades of illness. Just because someone is mentally ill and does awful things doesn't mean everyone who has a mental illness is capable or likely to do awful things.
It means that one person that was sick did bad things.
Is it that scary to think that perfectly sane people can stab others?
No. Plenty of people do it. Those people are usually under stress and are acting in the moment or have some sort of legitimate reason in their mind for committing the act. They are not convinced of the reality of an internet meme and they don't commit the murder as an act of worship to that personage.
0
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
I'm really starting to dislike "mental illness" as a motivation or excuse for people doing horrible things. Not only is it really dismissive, it also tosses a blanket over more specific and relevant issues. Just because someone does something you can't understand doesn't make them mentally Ill.
Well I mean they thought slenderman was real and that they should worship him.
Just believing ludicrous stuff doesn't make you mentally ill. You get into a place where this kind of stuff is talked about often enough, where it's normalized, eventually it starts to sound pretty believable.
Posts
good work, america
or like
maybe also getting a thorough psych analiysis
if I had kids I would know even know they thought about doing
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Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Well, to stare into the abyss, first you need to find an abyss.
Or just build one.
pretty sure those are just the forum posts from the PA Hub
Boy do I wish we had a legal system based on preserving the good of society and wisely resolving disputes instead of our current system of weaseling out of responsibility and scoring undeserved profit.
what happens if you like embed a video
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
but nah fuck that try them as adults
this isn't something like misled youths getting caught up in gang violence or stealing or whatever, they attempted premeditated homicide
I do wonder what combination of events and conditions would lead two twelve year old girls to lose touch with reality in such a bad way. "The Internet" is probably the last on my list of suspects there, though.
Also these mentally ill girls.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
they're 12 years old. not even teenagers yet.
they can't parse the shit they have been consuming correctly. trust me. there is massive liability here from parents, educators and, yeah, the media
Trying children as adults based not on their capacity but on how fucked up the crime is, is fucked up.
Liability culture or Fantasy-Facebook culture.
Some from Column A and some from Column B.
Goddamned shame either way.
Any way.
I'm not going to make the assumption that stuff like this wasn't happening before, but it's not a trend I like to see pick up
This isn't even the worst thing I've heard of children doing to other children.
Yeah, 19 stab wounds isn't the worst thing auithighjsgiuhu I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Yeah I think the real problem is trying to reduce it down to any one single cause. Something like this typically only happens due to a combination of factors. The Internet probably plays a role, but it's hardly the sole or driving culprit.
Judging from my own experiences, part of it may be the desperate desire to get away from a shitty home life.
Well they might not be able to because they are mentally ill, but most twelve year olds know reality from fiction. And they don't act out premeditated murder that they plan for months.
If kids were that unbalanced the streets would be running with blood.
Trying them as adults is too far I think but let's not pretend that kids are just completely unable to tell fiction from reality. They can do that from a pretty early age.
it's both
you can comment on the comic
and it makes a thread, if it's the first one
or it posts it as a comment on the comic page and the forum thread if it's not
because MAAAAAGIC
Also big surprise mentally ill people don't always kill people.
Not to blanket mental illness, but if stabbing other people bunches of times doesn't say "brain-sick", then I'm not sure what does.
There are many shades of illness. Just because someone is mentally ill and does awful things doesn't mean everyone who has a mental illness is capable or likely to do awful things.
It means that one person that was sick did bad things.
Well I mean they thought slenderman was real and that they should worship him.
Because we don't wanna pass a law that explicitly says 'dump this child in a hole for the rest of forever and never think of them again'. So we just promote children to adults when its convenient.
Because TOUGH ON CRIME
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Well because some actions are so heinous and our rules for adulthood are so arbitrary that sometimes it makes sense. If a seventeen year old commits rape or premeditated murder, it kind of makes sense to try him as an adult because he is, really. What actually separates a guy five months out from 18 and a guy who just turned 18? Nothing really.
Obviously for twelve year olds it is not really defensible.
Is it that scary to think that perfectly sane people can stab others?
i deal with the way kids of this age interact with texts every day. it's an oversimplification to say 'kids can discern reality from fiction.'
firstly: for a very long time, 'fiction' has come in very specific formats. english teachers explicitly talk about structure for a reason: you don't decode a particular format of text without someone teaching you how. that's easy to do for a novel or a comic book. "this is a work of fiction. we can tell because of the chapters and the indents. we can tell because of the images and frames. we can tell because..."
that's primary school literacy teaching. educational theory has abandoned the idea of "whole language" teaching - the concept that exposure around texts for long enough will allow a user to understand it fully - because it doesn't work. some gifted kids can get by that way, and learn, especially with guidance in socioeconomically priveleged families. outside that? you have to teach it explicitly.
the structure of fictions online is changing so rapidly that even the astute, modern, young teachers stuggle to approach it in a classroom. resources haven't been developed for it yet. we're still teaching what chapters and paragraphs look like, when a kid may have never read a stretch of text that didn't have a hyperlink in it.
secondly: broadly, yes, kids can tell what's true and what's 'made up'. but that's the long and the short of it; through highschool most kids struggle to identify simple things like tone, and especially authorial purpose or intent. they see a body of fiction, but they rarely are able to have a contextual view of it or decipher what it's trying to do. how they are 'supposed' to use it. there's a four-roles literacy teaching method, and one of the roles is 'text user.' we need to teach kids how to use texts, explicitly. which teacher sat these kids down, and said here's what creepypasta is for?
nobody did. this is what goes into critical literacy: not just cutting out the multiple choice questions, as was positited (in good faith) up the page.
so do we blame lagging education? absolutely, but that's not it. there's an ethical responsibility for content creators to understand the depth and breadth of their audience, and to concede that what they do is available currently to anyone of any age. game makers are the same: there are so many psychologically exploitative nothing games out there that, while they probably won't lead to murder, are damaging to a lot of kids who just don't have the tools to figure out how they're wasting so much time on something that's purely manipulative.
No. Plenty of people do it. Those people are usually under stress and are acting in the moment or have some sort of legitimate reason in their mind for committing the act. They are not convinced of the reality of an internet meme and they don't commit the murder as an act of worship to that personage.
Just believing ludicrous stuff doesn't make you mentally ill. You get into a place where this kind of stuff is talked about often enough, where it's normalized, eventually it starts to sound pretty believable.
Especially at twelve years old.